[Warhammer - The Old World]

1 hour ago, Warfiend said:

When some youtuber asked one of the developers of TWW3 if he knew if Cathay was going to be part of the old world, He replied that he didn't know anything about that but that GW was heavily involved with the design of the faction just like with Kislev.

Which is in contrast to most other factions, although GW always had the final say. With other "underdeveloped" armies like the vampire coast and norsca they were given much more of a free reign and it were the game developers who dug through the old lore to find interesting units.

obviously cathay is most lacking when it comes to lore but some see it as proof they're making an old world cathay army.

Wasn't Coast completely developed off of the old White Dwarf army list? My impression was that GW retained extremely tight control over the design of all new factions.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

3 hours ago, sandlemad said:

I get that and it's an old argument at this stage but seeing rank upon rank of human troops with glaives/bows of enchanted ice, units of gryphon legion and war-bear riders with ice-spike peppered armour, and a type of cannon that moves around purely by magic comes off as a scale that makes me grimace a little. Even High Elves don't have it to that degree, with maybe two particularly visibly magical units.

It's always going to be a matter of degree here and as ever YMMV. Had it been, e.g. ice weapons for heroes and champions or even just some sort of less numerous more-elite version of the Ice Guard, and the cannon on a sled or classic Kislevite war-wagon apparatus, I'd be happier. As is it seems like they're handing this stuff out like candy when e.g. the dwarf army books made much of weapons with magical runes being rare things. It's by no means the worst but the volume is offputting.

Oh and if I'm having a moan then the names used were rather poor. 'War-Bear Riders' is a bit blunt. Doesn't have to be AoS-style Grizzlebrow Fangmaulers or something but 'Chosen of Ursun' or 'Ursus Knights' or something. Same with 'Elemental Bear', ridiculously cool unit, placeholder name. 'Spirit of Kislev' ("Kislev is the land, and the land is Kislev") or similar would have been better. 'Little Grom' as the affectionate name for the cannon is fantastic though.

Looking at the TW roster, HE have at least 4 overtly magical units, being Sisters of Avelorn, Dragon Princes, the various phoenixes, and the various dragons. Might be I'm forgetting one or two as well, but it's definitely more than two.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

23 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

Lot of extremely cool stuff in those previews, especially how they're sticking with the older ideas underlying Kislev as a faction: having distinctions between the various levies, the central forces of the Tzar(ina), the cult of Ursun, and the institutionalised body of ice mages/warriors directly affiliated with Katarin.

Personally streltsi having combined gun-axes isn't quite as cool as them having muskets and separate hefty bardiche axes to act as gunrests, and a cannon mounted on a magical carpet of ice is a bit high fantasy for me (still not keen on the sheer preponderance of magical ice weapons/armour in a lowish fantasy human faction), but it's still good to see how CA and FW have expanded here.

I think the "low fantasy" concerns are a bit off, personally. Bretonnia is arguably the most "low fantasy"/"grounded" faction in WHFB and even they have elite units who are demigods with divine superpowers. Every single faction in WHFB is "high fantasy", even Bretonnia and the Empire. I totally get people wanting lots of utterly normal rank & file troops, believe me (Bretonnia is my favorite faction, after all ) but over-the-top Rare troops are pretty normal for even the human factions in WHFB.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

14 hours ago, Noserenda said:

We've been over it already earlier in the thread but tbh, given how much support for Warhammer is coming from the computer games crowd these days, a smaller scale absolutely makes sense given the majority of the time in Total war games you are looking at the battlefield super zoomed out

IMO the goal isn't to sell a tabletop version of TWWH to TWWH gamers, it's to pull TWWH gamers into the GW hobby and convert them into long-term GW fans. Making a game that operates in a completely different way from the rest of the GW hobby ecosystem just doesn't make sense here.

14 hours ago, Vomikron said:

I think this is a good point. They also teased the return of square bases, which Warmaster would need, way back when and for some reason I find it hard to believe that they would go back to rank and file units, it just seems so outdated for 32mm scale. Considering how popular Age of Sigmar has become im worried The Old World will be a step backward. I suppose you can easily make the argument that nostalgia by definition is a step backward though.

I would much prefer the Boxed Games crew to take over The Old World in 10-12mm and have Forge World do supplementary units. 

An additional problem with 10mm-12mm is that it puts GW in direct competition with 3D printers; sculpting and printing detailed 10mm-12mm at scale for affordable prices is very feasible & harder for GW to contest on copyright grounds given the greater degree of abstraction. Somebody like Forest Dragon, for example, is able to quickly create entire model ranges with very limited resources at a similar or equal quality to what GW could do in 10mm, which would not be the case in 28mm heroic, where GW's institutional advantages over independent 3D printing competition are far stronger.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

2 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

It’s possible and was mentioned when news first dropped but no idea if that’s still the case. As I suspect they want to sell new models, I’m expecting a hybrid between fantasy battles and Warmaster. The models can be a scale between both and borrow rules from both systems. But then I’m thinking this due to the popularity of Total War

I personally would be shocked if it's anything but 28mm heroic. I base this off two things, the first being that GW is a models company first and foremost, and the second being that the game will likely be targeted primarily not at WHFB players, but people who have come into the hobby more recently & TWWH players.

 

As GW is a models company, they have a lot of people who collect the models but don't play the game, and smaller scales like ~15mm hold a lot less appeal to this demographic due to the reduced detail. As far as the second issue, getting people to rebuy models is not a concern which warrants a scale shift because GW already knows that the old WHFB fanbase can't be relied on to sustain a major product line - else we'd still have WHFB today! They won't be primarily targeting people with existing WHFB armies, but rather newer players/people who never played WHFB (which will be a substantial % of the playerbase given churn/the outsize popularity of 40k) and trying to on-ramp TWWH players as well. Rebuying is not a concern for these people. While they will still want to attract WHFB grogs as well, this is where factions like Kislev and others (maybe Norsca?) come in, enticing WHFB grogs with a brand-new model line without requiring any kind of dramatic scale shift.

 

And all that aside, of course, the history of GW shows that people are often quite willing to rebuy a nicer version of what they already had! I'd certainly scramble to throw more money at GW for new Bretonnians if given the chance.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

11 hours ago, Vomikron said:

Games Workshop and Forge World are obviously setting up a replacement for Horus Heresy but I for one doubt it’s ability to take the roll. I love the Old World but I really don’t want to spend endless amounts of money on beautiful campaign books for a super crunchy game system.
If it were Warmaster scale I might be tempted, but that would limit their ability to attract non Old World gamers to buy miniatures. Even if an AoS player doesn’t play they will still buy minis to use in their army. Same goes for Horus Heresy.
I know everyone thinks Primaris will fully take over regular space marines but that would leave a lot of Heresy players with useable armies and no 30k support. We already see them sprinkling in 30k tech into 40K (Neo-vulkite, dreadnoughts). I think the same philosophy will apply the Old World. 

Do we even think that TOW is going to follow the HH model? This still feels like speculation based off that we know FW staff are working on TOW to me. Logically, you would think TOW would be oriented to attract TWWH & Vermintide players, which would suggest at least all the core troops at a minimum would need to be in plastic.

[What would you like for AoS 3]

On 5/9/2021 at 4:52 AM, Bluesummers said:

Let's hope its 2022 since there is a gap in new edition releases. (10th ed 40K 2023, 4th ed AoS 2024 and so on if a pattern is to be followed)

I am pretty confident that the target for TOW is probably the end of 2022 (although this may have slipped because of COVID). This lines up roughly with the estimate they gave in November 2019, and they need to get TOW out during the peak of TWWH3's release cycle in order to maximize the number of people they can draw into the hobby through brand synergy, and TWWH will have been out for about a year at that point, leaving several years' worth of peak hype for GW to ride.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

15 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

I'd say they've got space to do some of the more unique and weird Bretonnian stuff, like the grail, and sorceresses etc. They don't presently have any pegasus cavalry, so that is a space that could be cool to explore.

Its a case of finding the things that you need for a Bretonnian army that you can't get elsewhere. Sure, every historical company makes a set of medieval knights and peasant bowmen, so I can see why GW aren't fussed about those. That doesn't mean they can't put their own spin on some other elements of the range though.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines! They could pretty readily push Bretonnia into a lot more overt iconography of the Grail and the Lady if they wanted to differentiate the range from medieval historicals, especially if the Bretonnian range were to revolve around Repanse. Make the Battle Pilgrims/Grail Reliquae look closer to the default and you'd have something a lot harder to replicate (plus it sounds pretty cool!) Since we're getting Kislev, I have hopes that they could hardly then pass over Bretonnia, but only time will tell.

 

18 minutes ago, Lord of the Isle said:

Gods it’s good to hear anyone remember Repanse! My first model

To be honest, even though I played Bretonnia in 7th & 8th I'd not heard of her until TWWH! However, she seems like a fantastic subject for a later campaign book in Old World, & a great opportunity for GW to create more overlap with TWWH.
 

Just now, Beastmaster said:

Will any of the AoS armies fit into the Old World? What do you think?

 

I think the Daughters of Khaine would fit into WHFB pretty neatly as part of the Dark Elves, but I don't think we'll be seeing any New World factions, at least not for a very long time.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

I'm quite excited as well! I only played WHFB for a couple years during 7th and 8th (Bretonnians, DEand Dwarves here), but TWWH got me back into the setting in a big way. The potential choice of factions is pretty interesting. Aside from the obvious Empire and Kislev, who else do you guys think is going to make it? I personally expect it to launch with a few different Empire factions, Kislev, and O&G. As a former Bretonnian player, I hadn't realized that the War of Three Emperors lands right before Repanse in the timeline, so that gives me more hope (which I hadn't had initially) that we might see Bretonnia finally get an update after all! It does still seem a little doubtful, if only because GW these days is pretty keen on making their model ranges harder to imitate & Bretonnia is the epitome of imitable, but perhaps they'll figure out a way around that.