[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

1 hour ago, Liquidsteel said:

If I were to run FEC right now I would still take two GKoRTG.

Take Command Entourage and fill it with an AAR plus a Varghulf. Then second GKoRTG goes in a Battle Regiment with your troops.

4 drops and you can still give both the Gruesome Bite trait.

That’s really solid, actually. However, I’m mixing it up mainly because the gheist is pretty daunting for me to paint atm. I also really want to summon in a 2nd Varghulf because I really like how they perform  on the table. I’m using my extra enhancement on the 5+ ward amulet for the Gheist

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

2 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

That was always the case, you gained additional mount traits for each Warscroll Battalion, which no longer exist.

If you want a second Mount Trait, you need to take a Warlord of Command Entourage Battalion and select an additional mount trait.

I just heard that from a buddy on discord. Ouch. Good thing I’m running one Gheist King, many of the Dragon Mount traits were a bit underwhelming to me anyway

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

So Battlescribe updated to AoS 3. While I am aware that it favors 40k, I feel that it still got something wrong, unless they changed how our faction works. It is saying I can only put one mount trait on my list with 2 mounted kings. Thats a pretty hefty change that I was not aware of before. However, BS also doesn’t count the GW FAQ for Seraphon, that allows the Thunder Lizard subfaction to take more than 4 behemoths, because they become battleline for TL and thar supercedes Behemoths. 
 

That’s gotta be an oversight on BS’s part, because one of our strengths is being able to take multiple mount traits.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

18 hours ago, Honk said:

Below 1k FEC with the summoning is really  wonky...

can‘t wait to charge into the gunlines 😁

Yeah thats gonna be... fun. But below 1k or not, I did pretty well with a limited roster. It makes me excited for 2k, and by a lot.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

22 minutes ago, Honk said:

Looks funky...

sure, Magical Dominance and Strong shooting is the FEC bane, but you have to play the hand you were dealt...

It’s what I got. I was doing pretty well when it comes to magic. Granted it was 600 points againt no magic and some magic, so that doesn’t really count too much.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

All right. Here we go. With what I’ve gathered, I figured out what I want for my 2k list.

Court: Feast Day

Warlord Battalion:

Archregent (Dark Wizardry, Dermal Robe)

Varghulf

Ghoul King on Gheist (Amulet of Destiny)

6 Flayers

Battle Regiment Battalion:

Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon

10 ghouls

10 ghouls

10 ghouls

I’m thinking Zombie Dragon for second mounted king for a few reasons. Firstly, for my modeling sanity, I’m still piecemeal painting a Gheist and that’s hellish enough for me. A second one is daunting. Second, I realized I really like Varghulfs on the table, and was sad to realize I couldn’t squeeze a second one in with two mounted kings; then I realized one of the kings could summon an extra one in. Thirdly, that re-roll wounds aura would really help my damage output. 16” covers surprising distance from a model that big.

Other than that, free Frenzy, two handpicked relics and 5 drop deployment. I feel pretty solid with this lineup.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

Played a few PtG games at 600 tonight with this setup:

Feast Day:

Archregent (dermal robe, dark wizardry)

Varghulf

10 ghouls

10 ghouls

Don’t have the 20 ghouls for summons built, so had no real choice but to have flayers summoned. Turns out, that was the right choice. Game one was a one-sided massacre in my favor. Not a single greenskin survived. Turn 2, that Boss was dead after the Varghulf’s Frenzy (being buffed with the King’s hunger spell, and Feed on Dark Magic), and the Flayers screamed all but one of a unit of 5 off the table, then the last one ran. They then charged and slaughtered the other unit near the first. The Varghulf took out half the army on his own. I almost felt a little bad. The only dead model I had was one flayer, and it didn’t really count cuz it was summoned anyway.

Game 2, I lost because it was SBG on the offensive on the Watchtower battleplan. Surrounded, bogged down, but I fought to the last. Did really well protecting the King both games, and the Varghulf narrowly avoided needing a full re-buy with points. Both ghoul squads only have one casualty from here on in. Zombies ransacked the watchtower (that I did get to make my Throne, so that was neat!)

A few things I gleaned from this:

1) Even with the buff to command points, Feast Day still rocks the house. Left me plenty of wiggle room — if I’m only going to Frenzy once a turn, might as well do it for free.

2) Dark Wizardry and Dermal Robe absolutely slaps. Unbound every enemy spell, succeeded every cast, even if just barely sometimes. Side note, Blood Feast is generally a better Arcane Bolt, but obviously can’t be stored. To be honest, I may not even go Blisterskin in my non-PtG games, just for this. The freedom to have my own trait and relic is amazing, and smaller board sizes help mitigate the loss. With how fast flayers move, the redeploy isn’t that big of a loss either.

3) Confirmed adoration of Ghouls in MSU. Taking 3 units in 2k, which as I said, gives the room to turn a gheist into a mount. The only time I foresee myself caring about 20+ ghouls is the summon.

4) Heroic Abilities —specifically the extra CP gain— really help. It also makes the Throne completely optional, since you can burn the spare CP for the summon. However the Throne still has use so the Regent and the Gheist King can summon for free, with the heroic ability being used on the Gheist King’s summon.

5) Death Scream against greenskins is absolutely savage. Don’t even need to explain, I’m still just blown away.

All in all, I learned a lot from just 2 games. The Varghulf was a hell of an MVP, I wish I had room for 2. 

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

Played my first game of 3.0 borrowing a buddy’s Seraphon (which is coincidentally going to be my second army, but I digress). I got to get a feel for the game, and its given me some good insight on my FEC list. Now, I will say, I know we aren’t an MSU army.

But.

I think I’m actually going to prefer ghouls in 10 man units this edition. Originally I wanted the footprint of 2 blobs of 20. However, Coherency is a bit of a pain at that level (the 20 free ghouls from summoning are okay though) and I really just want to take them as cheap screens/bodyguards for my Archregent. Maybe tie up the odd objective or two. However, more importantly, dropping the squads of ghouls to 10 gave me the points to give my gheist a mount, which will pull far more weight. Besides, they weren’t gonna be as good of a target for Frenzy in my lists anyway. Heck, I may drop to one Gheist king and add 6 more flayers, I’m not sure yet. I feel 2 deadly monster heroes will pull more, though.

As always, this is gonna require more testing to see. 20 man units can still be heaving masses that can bog up an objective, or tarpit semi-decently. Luckily, I get to test with summonable 20 ghouls later on

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

1 hour ago, docofallplagues said:

Sorry for the double post but thanks to nightfeast hunters and the ever reliable FEC start collecting, I have 6000 points of FEC. I haven't built my last gheist/dragon and I'm wondering if anyone has had success with an unmounted dragon? I'm struggling to see why I'd ever use one over an unmounted gheist except possibly gristlegore for exploding sword like claws now that gruesome bite doesn't stack. If it helps I don't actually have an unmounted dragon, got a GKoTG, GKoZD and two gheists.

Honestly with your help when it comes to listbuilding, I feel there isn’t too much of a point outside Gristlegore, like you said. I’d rather take an unmounted gheist over an unmounted dragon. The only reason I was going to take a dragon before was because I wanted to force Corpsemare, and I was just shy of the gheist. Even without the mount trait, extra attack profile and casting, the unmounted gheist makes it worth it with that bite. Yeah you can’t reroll it, but it’s 140 points cheaper, of course its not gonna do as much.

Im just glad I changed the list up before I started building a zd

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

11 minutes ago, docofallplagues said:

The generic Artefact arcane tome. If the user is already a wizard then they gain a cast. It's why I include the Warlord Battalion to have both the Dermal Robe and the arcane tome, go for magi  superiority 

Oh alright. Do you just put Flaming Weapon as the lore spell on the Gheist King?

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

4 minutes ago, docofallplagues said:

The 5+ ward is what I used against stormcast and I know that statistically it's quite good but I think an additional cast in a list with only two wizards is invaluable.

What is giving the additional cast?

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

25 minutes ago, docofallplagues said:

As far as I know that's it but it's just vital if the flayers get Deranged Transformation and go monstrous hero hunting. Last thing you'd want is to have them get monstrous roared and not be able to receive feeding frenzy.

That’s fair enough. I was tempted to actually roll with the 5+ ward amulet and the Flaming Weapon combo on the Gheist King. What are your thoughts on that?

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

6 hours ago, Barnie25 said:

What do you think about this list then.

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (445) in Warlord
- Lore of Madness: Monstrous Vigour
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (445) in Warlord
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Abhorrant Archregent (245) in Warlord
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Crypt Infernal Courtier (130) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Dark Acolyte - Spectral Host

Battleline
6 x Crypt Flayers (360) in in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Crypt Flayers (180) in Hunters of the Heartlands
10 x Crypt Ghouls (95) in Hunters of the Heartlands
10 x Crypt Ghouls (95) in Warlord

Core Battalions
Hunters of the Heartlands
Warlord

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97

The reasoning behind the list:

Double GKoTG, one with a 5+ Ward, the other one can cast the 5+ ward on himself if needed. Both will summon 3 more flayers. The Regent will summon a Varghulf.

The 2 units of ghouls are there to screen or sit on backfield objectives. The 6 pack flayers can be buffed and send off to do flayer things.

The Ghoul Kings hopefully will able to put out the damage will being able to be a bit tanky as well.

Thoughts?

It looks really nice and has a well thought-out gameplan. Really, I only have a few questions/remarks.

-Why does only one mounted king have a mount trait? Also friendly reminder that the summons will happen on 2 different turns for the Gheist Kings because you can only use one CA of that name a turn. But, really, that can be a strategic upside and really rolls with the flow of the game.

-If you’re dead set on going courtless, would you consider Crusading Army? I could be wrong, but thinking over the new CP generation, coupled with the fact you can only Frenzy once a turn, kind of nerfs the old appeal Feast Day once had, at least in my eyes. Perhaps the +1” to run and to charge would be worth it?

-On your Regent summons... point for point, wouldn’t summoning in 20 ghouls in to nab an objective from the side or something generally be better? It certainly would give more board presence. I’ve always heard that the Regent should almost always summon the ghouls. I will say, I see why you chose the Infernal as a general, because ghouls are fodder for your list and you really want to focus on buffing and babysitting your flayers, so may as well make them battleline outside of Blisterskin right? I feel the Varghulf is worth 30 more points, but I run thicker squads of ghouls and want my Varg to be able to Muster anything. Probably a nonissue for your build.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

14 hours ago, docofallplagues said:

Both an answer to your question and an opinion on a list against the freshly buffed petrifex elite OBR.

Warlord:

GKoTG - commander - arcane tome - flaming weapon - gruesome bite

Archregent general - sub commander - Dermal Robe and dark Wizardry

Varghulf Courtier - sub commander

Crypt Ghouls - troops

Hunters of the Heartland:

Crypt Ghouls x2 

Crypt Ghouls x2

Crypt flayers x2

Other: royal terrorgheist 

Grand strategy : can't decide between hold the line and hiding some Ghouls or beast master and hoping the terror geese kill faster than they're killed 

Points: 1990

Wounds: 107

I really can't decide on a delusion, Crusading Army or feast day couldn't hurt but I really wanna go courtless to have magic superiority.

General strategy of having the GKoTG mystic shield himself and flaming weapon and the archregent giving one of the 3 fast threats ferocious hunger and the flayers deranged transformation. Create a big enough flustercluck on turn 1 to allow Ghouls to march up the board unimpeded.

Hey that actually looks really fun.. and very similar to my list. Also I just read about Hunters of the Heartlands so I should probably run that. You mind if I bum this idea, since its close to mine anyway?

Also, besides ignoring monstrous rampages, what else does Hunters of the Heartlands do? Any additional enhancements?

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

5 hours ago, docofallplagues said:

Honestly better thought out than mine. My only question is if monstrous vigour is even required on a GKoTG, its not like we care about the gooses degrading profile.

And in response to @KibaWildFangI've had decent success with 20 block Ghouls just because of the number of bodies, they don't live long when even looked at but I find every opponent has taken the bait of double terrorgheist, and if they don't then they have a different problem.

I’d have to cut the Corpsemare to make my Zombie Dragon into a Gheist. Unless I knocked down one of the ghoul squads, I also don’t have the room to make it have a rider. At this point though, that’s doable, because Corpsemare is beginning to feel more “build me” than a spell to add some spice. I’d much rather upgrade the dragon on my list into a gheist, and fill a battalion easier.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

5 hours ago, docofallplagues said:

Both an answer to your question and an opinion on a list against the freshly buffed petrifex elite OBR.

Warlord:

GKoTG - commander - arcane tome - flaming weapon - gruesome bite

Archregent general - sub commander - Dermal Robe and dark Wizardry

Varghulf Courtier - sub commander

Crypt Ghouls - troops

Hunters of the Heartland:

Crypt Ghouls x2 

Crypt Ghouls x2

Crypt flayers x2

Other: royal terrorgheist 

Grand strategy : can't decide between hold the line and hiding some Ghouls or beast master and hoping the terror geese kill faster than they're killed 

Points: 1990

Wounds: 107

I really can't decide on a delusion, Crusading Army or feast day couldn't hurt but I really wanna go courtless to have magic superiority.

General strategy of having the GKoTG mystic shield himself and flaming weapon and the archregent giving one of the 3 fast threats ferocious hunger and the flayers deranged transformation. Create a big enough flustercluck on turn 1 to allow Ghouls to march up the board unimpeded.

Wait... so a mix of both? Those 3 leaders are my go-to though.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

Hey, so, the FAQ never really cleared it up, but... can unit champions use Frenzy now for sure? Because Frenzy and the Blisterskin strat still mention needing a Hero nearby to work it.

Edit: cancel that, I actually looked. Bummer. On the other hand, are people going to be preferring units of 20 ghouls or MSU of 10? I’m conflicted, myself.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

5 minutes ago, docofallplagues said:

I do prefer the second list, if you aren't trying to fill battleline with flayers then the only thing you're really missing out on is hellish orator since the GKoTG, dragon and six flayers don't need the deep strike and the worst shooting you'll face doesn't care if they're -1 to hit (*chough* Lumineth *cough*). The choice between dragon or terrorgheist should change depending on your local players though. Made the mistake of taking a dragon against coalesced seraphon.

 

Edit to say that a +2 to cast archregent will be amazingly good in AOS3 whether its for corpsemare or just for ensuring ferocious hunger goes off.

Thanks for the input! I will say though, that build doesn’t exactly have the room to swap into a gheist, not without knocking the 20 man ghoul squad to 10... then I have leftover points I can’t do anything with. Also I’m building it as a dragon and am not gonna be spending anymore money for a while, haha.

However, I’m going with the second list!

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

On that note, however, I do have a new question. Between two lists, which would end up stronger? (Both use the Warlord Battalion)

1st List: Blisterskin

Archregent (Hellish Orator, Dermal Robe)

AGKoRTG

Varghulf (Eye of Hysh)

20 ghouls/ 20 ghouls / 6 flayers

Zombie Dragon

Corpsemare Stampede

OR

2nd List: Crusading Army

Archregent (Dark Wizardry, Dermal Robe)

AGKoRTG

Varghulf (Billious Decanter)

20 Ghouls / 10 ghouls / 10 Ghouls

6 Flayers

Zombie Dragon

Corpsemare Stampede

The only real differences are the Archregent has a +2 to mainly make Corpsemare easier, the Varg can attempt Smashbat, armywide +1” to run and charge, and one squad of 20 ghouls has to split. On the other hand, I lose armywide +2” movement, the flying redeploy strat, and Eye of Hysh/Hellish Orator (if you could even call that a loss; they were kind of forced into my listbuilding). Also if the Bilious Decanter isn’t worth it here, the 5+ Ward artefact could always go on the Gheist King, instead.

The bright side is, I can run either and have the same number of models, really. I just want to hear thoughts on which has stronger benefits.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

1 hour ago, docofallplagues said:

I'm going to be honest with the massive amount of +1 to saves that armies are getting from all out defence, mystic shield and others I fail to see horrors doing enough due to lack of rend or mortals. It could be interesting to run Hollowmourne not for the sake of horrors but for buffing flayers since the extra movement isn't as necessary in AOS3 that they'd get from blisterskin. I still think blisterskin would be better but the grand court itself isn't useless IMO.

That was generally my thinking. No one’s really gonna get good use out of Horrors being battleline in Hollowmourne. So you kinda have to kill the theme a little. The rest of the court is pretty decent though, as far as I’m aware its still the best way to Smashbat. I, myself, am going with Blisterskin not only for the movement, but for my Flayers being battleline and new, fun ways to use the redeploy strat. If all else fails and I do want to try Hollowmourne, I can always cut the two 20-man ghoul units down to minimum and add a third one. Though, I’d rather keep the extra artifact as Dermal Robe to give my Archregent at least a +1 to cast, because he does have Corpsemare tied to him, and he wants to cast it with as much success as he can get.

If all else fails, I can go Feast Day or better yet now, Crusading Army (since Feast Day isn’t as mandatory with the CP overhaul and the fact you can only Frenzy once a turn), so I can get the +1 Casting Trait on the Archregent. I’d probably want to keep my 2 20 man ghoul blobs, though.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

Honest question to be considered, as always I’d love your input.

So, Grand Court Hollowmourne. I’m wondering if it is going to be as relevant as before without Warscroll Batallions.

The whole draw was for Royal Mordants Smashbat. The Horrors you had to take had the benefit of at least being Battleline in Hollowmourne, and pretty much all your good units benefitted from the faction trait and even the command ability. The Corpsefane Gauntlet is a decent mandatory relic, and the Varghulf seems to enjoy the Billious Decanter alongside the General Trait.

But now Mordants aren’t going to be a thing in most games, which means Horrors are probably going to see less play. Not dissing Horrors, but even with the discount, I don’t think they’re as favored compared to Flayers, especially now that Unleash Hell is a thing.

Thematically, I love Hollowmourne. They’re the first Flesh-Eater Court I heard about, and what got me interested in the lore. Personally, I feel sad they’re probably gonna be less relevant now. I guess the question is, what is everyone’s input?

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

On 6/28/2021 at 10:01 AM, Shirtripper said:

The general in hollowmourne doesn't have to have the corpsefane gauntlet, it just has to be the first artefact given out to a hero. I usually give it to my Ghoul King on Terrorgheist.

And yes, definitely still 160 points, I cannot read apparently lol

So the Billious decanter goes to it eh? Interesting. And the Hollowmourne allegiance ability makes it even better?

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:18 PM, Shirtripper said:

I do not, but it's basically a Varghulf as your general in Hollowmourne with the Grave Robber command trait, the Billious Decanter aretfact, and buffed with the D3 extra attacks spell.

With all of that you get a Varghulf that if within 3" of 10 or more enemy models, within 3" of an enemy hero with an artefact, and with 3 extra attacks from the Archregent could have the following:

12/3+/3+/-1/3D

7/3+/2+/-2/d3+1

Re-rolling failed hits

Rerollings 1's to wound if it charged

And can feeding frenzy

 

Oh, I thought you gave it Corpsefane Gauntlet?

On 6/26/2021 at 10:06 PM, Shirtripper said:

Pretty good for a 170 point model!

Wait isn’t it still 160?

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

3 hours ago, docofallplagues said:

I have this exact issue, I got my flesh eaters fairly early in my warhammer career so every single flayer, horror, ghoul and gheist/dragon is completely built. Worse yet all the ghouls still have mould lines on 😧 you've hit the spot though that flayers are the worst to do fully built.

They are but I’m actually managing to get it done fairly well. Just... from here on out they get painted piecemeal.

 

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

Nothing much of import here, just hobbytalk.

It’s taking a while to get the army painted. Mainly because anything that isn’t a ghoul, I’m painting in pieces. Which means before I glue them, I gotta have them painted how I like. My first squad of flayers is a pain because I built them all first then started painting. Won’t make that mistake again, haha. Right now I’m tackling the GKoRTG. Getting the gheist flesh down over the ribs is tough, need really good light to see whats flesh and whats bone, but that should be the hardest part.