umpac
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Posts posted by umpac
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22 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:
Just read all the new warscrolls. You naysayers must be smoking crack. This book is legit good. Jog on phurlease.....
Just curious, what about the book do you think is good and why?
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4 minutes ago, BrotherTalarian said:
For Riders of Ruin, do you think the ability only triggers if the BKs move out of combat and trample models?
Or does it also trigger if you make a normal move, not retreat, and simply move over models that have fewer than 3 wounds and no mount.
The article seems to imply the latter, and it makes sense to be able to always trample smaller models during a normal movement.
Thoughts?
From the flavour text and wording of the rules it seems obvious to me that the intent is to only be usable if they are in combat already and allow them to charge later in the charge phase.
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1 hour ago, AronQ_ said:
Why no one pick Myrmidesh painbringers in roster, so sad
I hope not only me using them and slaangor fiendblood(I know that slaangors are bad, but whats the matter with painbringers?)
I love myrmidesh because of cool models and lore and I don't think that rules of them are too bad, but cost yeah, kinda expensive.You kind of hit the nail on the head, they're expensive. They don't really have a clearly defined role either. They are kind of tanky but not really, they are kind of killy but not really. If you want an anvil or a tar pit you take Warriors, if you want damage you take characters or maybe slickblades. If they come down in points they could be an ok but if other stuff also comes down they will still suffer from having a kind of awkward role.
Rule of cool trumps any of that though, so unless you play against super competitive players with "net deck" lists they're gonna do just fine. Take a unit if you like them.
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5 minutes ago, Yoid said:
disagree with the shardspeaker being balanced in a 3+ because the range is really short and it points an enemy instead of an ally. In other armies you have instant effects that don't require a dice roll, that got better ranges or that point toward your own units making the positioning way easier. But i agree with the pray comparison. I disagree with the Shardspeaker himself being balanced at 150pts, other armies got similar support tools in the 100pts range, that is a 50% point cost difference, wich is a lot. I understand that half of the AoS armies got unreliable mechanics too, and the other half don't, but that dosn't fix the problem, simply aknowledge that even more problems exist.
I disagree that the range is "really short". 6"+1d6+9" is good threat range, I've never had issues applying it even it seeker heavy cavalcade lists. The fact that it targets enemies also lets you essentially buff several units at the same time. What abilities are similar that doesn't require a dice roll? Main issues is that the mortal lore is kind of garbage and lvl 1 casters with +0 cast are bad in the current meta.
150 is a little steep but I don't think its way off. Most lvl 1 casters are 90-120 without additional abilities (or with some very mediocre ones). At 150 shes an ok choice, at 120 shes good and at 100 I'd never build a list without one.
26 minutes ago, Yoid said:Now let's do an exercise of imagination. Let's think for a moment in a world in wich LRL only get to do his double activation if they roll a 4+. Or IDK only get to fight first during the high tide in a 4+. Yep, there is a reason why people hate the bad moon mechanics, because they are incredibly random.
Locus is a lot more potent than LRL double activation. IDK has their own "unreliability" since they have to wait for turn 3 to get the most out of their engages. If high tide was on a 4+ per unit but you had it every turn and your heavies got it on a 3+, would it really be worse? Soulrenders and Cathallars in those factions also have to roll dice to get their abilities off, but then again they are cheaper. The reason Bad moon sucks is because it's a combination of too random (much more so than Locus), has a weak effect and is the only faction ability they have outside Loonshrine stuff.
1 hour ago, Yoid said:In a more deep tough process, making something random dosn't balance it, it just make it unbalanced half the time and worthless the other half. Thats why our last version of locus, that was also random, no longer exist.
Yeah I partly agree on this. Making it unreliable means you have to play around that and gauge risk vs reward, which certainly helps to balance it. It is however a poor form of balance and it can easily lead to "feels bad" moments in both direction if you fail or succeed a bunch of rolls in a row. It is a dice game and there should be a lot of stuff that relies on dice rolls, but creating overly powerful mechanics and then balancing them with "half the time they do nothing " isn't great. I would rather have a more reliable but less powerful Locus for sure (like your suggestion).
1 hour ago, Yoid said:Don't take my opinion too serious because im simply a no-one that can be wrong in all places. But almost everyone seems to agre that Slaanesh update was poorly design in comparison to other recent releases (DoK and LRL) by having weaker less complex mechanics and an excessively taxing point cost of units.
As are we all. Maybe the broken realms Belakor has a positive outcome. The last Everychosen book certainly had an impact.
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3 hours ago, Yoid said:
I think there is plenty of things to envy in other armies, starting with efficiency per point cost. That can be easily fixed in the future anyway. The unreliability of Locus and Shardspeaker is a serious matter tho. Something that certainly would be easier to gulp if the heroes were cheaper.
I mean its a dice game and its in line with other faction abilities. Shardspeaker ability is basically a prayer except it goes off on 3+, instead of 4+ like most strong prayers, and it can be done after moving. Units with this type of abilities that are just point and click are outliers, not the other way around. As for Locus, there are plenty of armies with dice-rolling allegiance abilities and 3+ on KoS seems fairly reliable for how powerful it is.
I'm curious, how would you change these abilities to make them less "unreliable"?
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5 hours ago, Yoid said:
Remember that people is not complaining about LRL new release being too powerful, they are complaining about it being a mockery for Slaanesh, and i can totally see it. These guys compare more to Hellstriders than Blissbarb Seekers due to their point cost and close combat speciallity. Sure LRL got way more OP things that make these guys unplayable, and that make things even worst, not better.
I wouldnt play the Kangaroo Cav if they were in Slaanesh either. They are way worse than any of the exalted seeker variations. They are also much more comparable to blissbarb seekers since they fill the exact same role. If you want a better comparison points wise then just compare 7 roos to 5 blissbarbs. Most of the LRL stuff seem crazy at first and then you play test it and it turns out that its pretty mediocre in practice.
The only thing worthy of envy in the new LRL release is the slew of interesting (but mostly weak) special abilities that all units got. Pretty much everything that was released got something that made them unique. BTs got blinding shot, kangaroos got unique movement shenanigans, loremasters got some crazy objective play, the twins got some unique damage per turn scaling and teleport stuff, windmage got a spell that triggers after the movement phase, Sevireth bascially have more special rules by himself than the entire Slaanesh faction. The only units that had recycled or kind of bland abilities was the swordmasters and BSB.
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2 hours ago, TimeToWaste85 said:
So I know Lurid Haze is amazing, but has anyone noticed that a Faultless Blades Pretenders Host using a Seeker Cavalcade can pile in 9”? It gives you an extra 3” on top of the bonus 3” from the Cavalcade.
It only extends pile in move, not the range from which you can pile in, unlike Cavalcade (which is a massive difference). It's not terrible but not great either and doesn't combo well with Cavalcade.
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2 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:
No mate, look at the warscroll of the ballista again. On the ability warding lanterns. It says they get +1 attack if they haven't moved. The battalion just replace the same ability with the difference that if the ballista is within 3 inches on another ballista the ward save is 5+ instead of 6+..
Yeah you're right, thanks! Too tired to read it seems. Even so I much rather take Sentinels than ballistas but at least they aren't a straight upgrade.
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4 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:
Sorry mate but the math do not agree with you.
x20 Sentinels with power fo hysh do 7,13 damage on a 4+ save unit.
x20 Sentinels without power of hysh do 4,75 damage on a 4+ save unit.
x3 Ballistas without moving with the +1 from hero do 8,33 damage on a 4+ save unit.
x3 Ballistas that have moved with the +1 from hero do 5,56 damage on a 4+ save unit.
So all in all the ballistas do more damage. The advantage of the Sentinels lies in the no line of sight needing ability they have and the fact they can circumvent the penalties on to hit..
Also the ballistas do not need the battalion for the +1 ability. They have it on their warscroll. The battalion just makes the ward save 5+
Yeah I was comparing 10 sentinels vs 1 ballista. 20 vs 3 is a more fair comparison in terms of points (but less so with battalion). They don't have it on their WS, its from the battalion, just looked it up. The battalion is 120 points too so it jacks up the cost of your ballistas to the same as 30 Sentinels.
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1 minute ago, Tiberius501 said:
Is this taking into account the +1 shot when standing still and 2+ to hit when within range of a hero who’s in range of the enemy?
The +1 A is from the battalion (or am I wrong?), so it works out like this:
10 Buffed Sentinels > Ballista in battalion and hawk > 10 unbuffed sentinels > Ballistas with hawk
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40 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:
I also think the ballistas will get some use due to their "disrupt shot" rule, because otherwise Sentinels remain the superior choice in terms of damage. To be fair though they have the benefit that they do not need power of hysh to go of to be at their best performance, because if the sentinels fail their power of hysh their damage output becomes almost negligible..
Ballistas outside of the battalion deals less damage than a unit of unbuffed Sentinels to all save values even with Hawk buff, so ballistas damage is even more negligible. In the battalion they deal slightly more dmg than unbuffed but still less than buffed sentinels. If you take them it is, as you say, purely for the -1 to hit but then you might as well just take Geminids.
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13 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:
Well, their f***ing wind-cat-spirit has a base move of 24”, destroys faction terrain on a 2+...I got that far and moved away.
I dont get the fuss about it to be honest. Yeah its fast and has some solid utility in its ability to provide -1 hit and reduce pile-in range but it has very bad damage output (4.5 wounds vs 4+) unless you use the Searing winds ability to proc some mortal wounds, but then you're putting him well within charging distance which is a big risk and it still not good dmg output. The only thing that stands out to me as "overpowered" is that he can move 12" in BOTH shooting phases, but I assume it's unintended and will be addressed in the FAQ'd.
As Slaanesh I would much rather fight Fox-Sonic-Wind-Furry than Avalor or a no-name Goat-Cow-Mountain. For 300 they are also forced to either take out Teclis or be really light on bodies and I welcome both. I guess destroying faction terrain can be devastating to our summoning since LRL can snipe heroes very easily but you can just play around it by screening it. Im much more worried about Teclis getting a healing and teleport spell.
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20 hours ago, umpac said:
From those "theories" the Kangaroos are god awful for 150 though, significantly worse shooting than Bliss seekers. Ballista seemed very lacklustre as well.
So I just saw the warscrolls of the new Roos and turns out they're kind of nuts. 3" range in combat with potentially 2A 3+ 3+ -2 (!) 1 which can be combined with pile in shenanigans (sharks, the new wind god thingy) and mobility that makes Slaanesh look like Gotrek. 2 Wounds at 5+ though so half the toughness of Blissbarbs,
4 minutes ago, LeonBox said:Seems to be a hell of a lot of fuss over the LRL release. Has anyone had a chance to look over the rumours, and if so, how's their costing looking compared to ours?
They were already good, this certainly makes them better. Hard to say by how much but some of their new stuff is good. At worst they dont use the new units but Teclis now has a heal and a teleport and their non-Teclis casters got a lot better (Contemplation, faction terrain).
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1 hour ago, Panacea said:
their shooting kangaroos is 150 pts.
From those "theories" the Kangaroos are god awful for 150 though, significantly worse shooting than Bliss seekers. Ballista seemed very lacklustre as well.
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1 minute ago, Yziel said:
Some people just like to complain and be contrarian for the sake of it.
I'm new to AoS. What are the odds that we're getting a Start Collecting soon?
We have one for daemones. For mortals I'd say its going to be a while. OBR got released in 2019 and still doesn't have one and I don't know of any SC boxes with relatively new models in it. Chances for a Soul Wars style boxed set is bigger but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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4 hours ago, ibel said:4 hours ago, Jaskier said:
do guaranteed turn one 6" pile-ins with Seeker Cavalcade
this trick u can only make ONE time..... after this the People know it.
Except you can't avoid it? Its not a trick, its functions as a guaranteed 1d6+6" charge if you run and pile in instead of move and charge. You can even make it an auto 6 for a CP if you want and bam, guaranteed 26" "charge". This also comes with the added bonus of functioning as always strikes first (that beat all other strike first/last). There are areas where this army lacks in power but if you think Slickblades moving 28" inches, striking first and potentially piling in twice doesn't fit under the definition "hyper fast assault army" then I don't know what to tell you...
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6 hours ago, Bozly said:
tried watching the warhammer weekly on it as i know vince is a huge slaanesh fan and didn’t look good. Got one decent list out of it thats mostly slickblade spam but its really finessy for a new player.
Yeah the combination of the army seemingly being mid/low mid tier and having a high skill floor means its not going to be very beginner friendly. On the upside it really forces you to learn and get better at the game. Its hard to say what he should do differently without knowing more about what list he is playing, how the games go and what lists he is facing.
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19 minutes ago, azdimy said:
You can only attempt to locus a unit once so the locus does not get more reliable with two heroes, just like in our previous book
Nice catch, don't know how I missed it since the rules very clearly states you can only target 1 unit even if the first attempt fails. Edited my post for clarification.
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4 hours ago, Iron Fist said:
And after your tests what did you deduce?
Do PD generate quickly?
Which list turns best?So far I've had the most success with cavalcade lists. Some hot takes from 10-15 or so games I've played:
- You reliably get 12 DPs by turn 3 and usually have some stockpiled to get good summons turn 4 and 5 as well. Sometimes you get 12 by turn 2 but that is only if your opponent lets you. Its still pretty match up dependent but less so then with our last book.
- Godseeker is my preferred sub. Tons of front loaded DP generation and summons are FAR more potent with +1 charge. I tend to lean into summon-reliant lists though so I have a lot of play style bias.
- Lurid Haze is great, maybe even stronger than Godseeker but it depends on play style and list. You definitely need something that can properly utilize the redeploy, like Sigwald, for it to be better than other options. If you don't have a clear plan in mind with the ambush it's pretty lack luster. Also the best choice if you really need CPs and face a lot of alpha shooting (but low drop lists like DoT or KO can easily force you to go first anyway). Much harder to get a lot of DP from and it isn't front loaded like in Godseekers.
- Seekers cavalcade is the best battalion. 6" pile ins helps a ton with survivability if you want to draw out combats. Slaanesh is stronger in the late game and Cavalcade helps us get there. Also solid vs stuff like Fangs of Sotek to get around their Parting Shot. Its also much more reliable than charging since you are basically getting 1D6+6 "charge" instead of 2D6. Kind of an anti-combo with the new Hellstrider rules but oh well.
- I've found single Keeper lists to be the best. 2 Kippers eats too much CP and are too expensive but armies with 0 lacks damage and reliable Locus.
I like running 1 keeper with either Masque or some other hero for very reliable Locus (4+ 3+ is about the same as 2+) to shut down big units of scary stuff and when it dies you usually have enough DP to get it back in your next move phase.- Other units that stand out are the new seeker units. They seem reasonably priced and go into Cavalcade. Just very solid all around. Good speed, decent damage unsupported and great damage with KoS CA, has tons of utility and sneaky tricks in Cavalcade, good amount of wounds, access to MWs. The Blissbarb version have long threat range and provide some MW output (though they only put 1.33 MWs per units so nothing mind blowing...). Better at 2.9" pile in shenanigans since they can still shoot at the unit they mess with.
- Glutos has been ok in my games. I don't see myself including him in lists moving forward but that might change. He's a tank in an army without tanks so he definitely has a role but I find he often takes wounds early, loses his priest and then dies to mortal wounds. He can take a beating but he also gets bracketed very harshly. His 5 course meal abilities are cool but ranges are short and limited to certain key words. The best stuff is of course in the last turns when the game is already decided for the most part. In games he lived he struggles to impact the game enough to justify the 400pt price tag. I liked him as a mobile summoning base but the fane is enough to have a big summoning foot print anyway.
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11 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:
Hi!
Has anyone ever tried creating lists based on PD generation?
I can't really imagine what it might look like.I've created most of my lists to emphasize DP gen but if you wanna go nuts try out depraved drove with a billion small units and ram an endless through them turn 1.
Most of my early lists started with 2 KoS and 3 archers in Godseeker. I've moved more towards hellstriders and seekers in Cavalcade after some testing.
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3 hours ago, ibel said:
If they go this down in Points the Army would be too good again. So pls not. But jes Somethings can go this cheap, and jes ist true…. we Need a Downraises in Points too nearly the hole Army...
So... Where is the FAQ GW ?!
The FAQ isnt going to contain pts decreases or rule changes, they are meant to clear up any confusion regarding the rules, like how Glutos CA works. That said it seems to be a bit delayed.
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2 hours ago, ibel said:
So, did anyone win without Archaon and/or with very very Luck ???? Against a T2,3,4 Army ?!?!?!
I haven't played KO but beaten all other top tiers. The battleplan is more important what tier your opponents army belong to. This army has a lot of outplay potential.
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34 minutes ago, Enoby said:
I'm still personally unsure about Supreme Sybarites - it's nice to have all heroes in one drop, but I don't know if it ends up being a trap, both because it costs and it can make you take more heroes than you'd normally want. The CP ability is nice, but not super reliable. At four drops, competitive armies will likely win on deployment, so I don't think you'll need a battalion to help drops (counter deploying may be more useful at that point).
From my experience it's a fantastic battalion, almost an auto-include, if you are already taking 4-6 heroes but it's not a build-around battalion that you go out of your way to fit in, especially with how expensive our heroes are. 4 heroes are a little unreliable as you say, in 1/3 games you won't get that turn 1 CP and after that you probably dropped a hero or two, but Godseekers have limited ways of getting CP while still being equally CP dependant so I usually take what I can get.
I feel like there are still a lot of 5+ drop lists around, but I guess that depends on local meta.
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4 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:
Question 2: I wanted to use marauders in my list thematically, but I've got a fairly competitive scene by me. Are marauders worth taking outside of the lurid haze for hedonites? I fully acknowledge that I won't win any tournaments with my list, I just want to make a fight of it ... and have fun playing. General recommendations are welcome too
Marauders are okay. They need a sorc lord to do damage but as a cheap-ish screen with surprising threat range they can work. In lutid haze they force your opponent to deploy to screen them out which can ****** up their turn 1 a lot. They are certainly more competitive than twinsouls and painbringers.
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I hope not only me using them and slaangor fiendblood(I know that slaangors are bad, but whats the matter with painbringers?)
Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation
in Death
Posted
The zombie horde seems to have some legs. 6" pile in makes them deceptively fast, especially with the +move spell. 40 zombies with buffs can easily do 20+ wounds per pile in, can potentially pile in twice and gets bolstered by kills. You fight the right target and you can easily be at 60+ zombies after a single combat, more against ideal targets and double pile in. Unless they remove inspiring presence in 3.0 they have a lot of staying power as well. Obviously needs play testing but my early impression is that they are basically "LoN marauders".
I actually think the concept is cool as hell. Just a massive "They are billions" style horde that swallows up and absorbs opposing armies, just a constantly growing avalanche of rotting flesh. The concept of zombies being slow up until they come close then suddenly lunges at you with surprising speed just oozes flavor. Buying and painting 120 zombies + X zombies for ressing is less cool....