Aphotic
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Posts posted by Aphotic
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21 hours ago, Pizzaprez said:
Ah! Very envious of you there! I missed picking it up on eBay before they hit TOW and the book like tripled in price. I always liked the Chaos Dwarfs, even when they were already running an "out of date" book when I discovered them as a teen. I liked them enough I wanted to see 'em on the table, even if it was mostly losses.
Part of the appeal of a miniatures game is "these are my dudes; i made them!" and I plan on riding that crew through highs and lows in balance..... but you can't get too much lower than "deleted entirely."Can't exaggerate how disappointed I am with this part in particular. It was the narrative beat I was anticipating the most. Morghur was shaping up to be an antagonist for the first time like ever outside of "this dude in the woods is bad news!" Like, I don't even care about the setting much at all anymore. Can't see myself even finishing the back half of Dawnbringers; what's the point? There isn't actually a plan for the story.
I've played since AOS 2.0. I can say, I've literally never read any of the lore. At all.
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1 minute ago, Pizzaprez said:
Difference is Chaos Dwarfs were a White Dwarf-published supplement that then got "get-you-by" rules alongside lots of other armies in the Ravening Hordes book and then we nuked from orbit by being the only Ravening Hordes faction to never make it out of that book again.
Technically, the army was (theoretically) never actually dropped. It was just so un-updated running it was not ideal. Tamurkhan sort of helped things, but that was back when people hyperventilated online about whether or not forgeworld was "official."
They made the jump to AoS with their Forgeworld list, but got "not quite deleted!" with their own get-you-by list for AoS that was axed. Really it wasnt until the WHF -> AoS jump that I ever saw armies that had their own self-contained books start getting deleted from both the store and the game altogether.
White Dwarf Presents: Chaos Dwarfs was a unique case of a whole race/faction existing in a semi-official book; usually it was stuff like the Storm of Chaos mashup armies or unique stuff from supplements like Lost and the Damned or, more recently, the Legion of Grief. Always sucks when the characterful subfactions get dropped. The only other army I can think of that's like a whole faction gone forever was the Vampire Coast subfaction but even then most that stuff was "Vampire counts but wet" outside of like the cannon.
GW has really never dropped Codexs, Armybooks, or Battletome armies before AoS and its a garbage approach. Looking back on years of 40k, it was super normal for armies to have a few variations of a similar thing; it's trash that Darkhoath is (long-term) replacing the Warcry stuff. Unless the Darkhoath Marauder unit is so flexible with gear options that it could represent all the Warcry stuff, it sucks.
GW has never gone back and deleted an entire subfaction of Space Marines within two editions. Maybe their unique and special book, but not the models from the rules and setting.
"all the sancrosanct went to azyr! you can represent this on the tabletop next fall by putting your miniatures into the trash."
Like, any other miniatures from GW I feel the need to buy will almost certainly never be used in a GW game. I never thought I'd miss when I could run 6th Edition Bretonnia in 8th Edition Fantasy. If constant iterations to the game means it's impossible to keep the factions in-tact..... maybe slow the roll and make a game that actually has legs enough that it won't need an almost complete reboot in three years.This is a good insight; I remember (and still have) my WD with the original release for CD.
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5 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:
I have no source, but I would say competitive players are the minority of the sales, but the bigger voice in the social media.
This is true; but competitive players also drive -what- is sold, if not the volume a company like workshop relies on to be profitable, I'd wager.
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Just now, Ganigumo said:
If I understand correctly its not about the money exactly, but about tracking the metrics properly. Don't want to overinvest in old world based on AoS sales or vice versa.
Splitting up the ownership of the range between the teams is another factor.
They would probably actually make more money if they didn't split up the range, but this also forces players who play both systems to own 2 armies I guess.
For all this doom and gloom stuff over investors and profits I don't actually believe it. I think its just poor planning. Well run companies understand keeping customers happy is important over the long term. I can't remember the name, but there is a type of investor that will go hard into a company, push them to effectively burn through all their customer goodwill for short term profits, then bail before things blow up. I don't think GW is in that situation though, just mismanagement and planning issues.
A huge amount of their schedule is built around these new edition starter boxes, but I'm not sure they even really need to change much of the rules to make these things successful. Its a box, featuring completely new models for two armies, at a steep discount relative to the rest of their products, but they're unwilling to gamble on something this lucrative.TBF the discussion about investors and executives was explicitly related to Workshop going public, and modelling their war games slowly but surely to become board games that pretend to be war games. This change over - when workshop began to focus on investor returns - was when you saw the clamp down on IP, ablative companies providing model upgrades workshop didn't make, culminating in an absurd lawsuit against a woman for using Space Marine in a novel.
I suspect the decision here is based on a few things. Apparently, there was infighting with the TOW dev team, which was supposedly primarily FW folks. This lead to a spillover when workshop took over the project. This then lead to the problem we're seeing with the AOS dev team, for obvious reasons, wanting to protect their project from TOW data pollution.
I'm not making a moral judgment on the issue, simply stating the speculation as I understand it.
The issue for Workshop is very simple; every time they do this, they lose customers to other companies. The SMART thing Workshop should have done was allowed FW to handle TOW. Period, end of story. IF the rumors are true - of course.
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1 minute ago, The Red King said:
For the better right? Changing over to a system that prioritizes churn and burn profits over everything else made things better of course... right?
Well, from the perspective of their shareholders and executives, the Magic-ifying of these games has been a stellar success.
AOS armies nowadays barely resemble army construction as I remember it. Hyper-fixation on data and book skew has rendered many of the AOS armies to be almost identical across faction when you play competitively. Workshop has done the impossible; they've turned a miniatures game into a card game.
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1 minute ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:
This is a very important statement because it shows what is happening right now isn't new - it's part of a time honored GW tradition going back to 2000.
More than big hats; in the change from 6th, which included Storm of Chaos, to 7th edition, the Slayer army, Valten's peasants, the original Grimgor Blorc army, and the traditional demonic legions were all removed.
At the time, I owned 3 Demon legions (all converted from metals, and fully painted to GT standards, as I played heavily in the NE Fantasy GT circuit from MD to NY), Chaos Dwarfs, AND the Black Orc based army. all of it was essentially a sales grab, selling us piles of models that GW had no intention of carrying into 7th edition.
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1 minute ago, The Red King said:
Just give me a button to press at checkout saying which system I'm buying it for. I'd much rather deal with an extra page at checkout than whatever this BS was lol
Workshop can track any of that online, but cannot do so for brick and mortars.
Workshop is going to quickly learn that the two systems appeal to two entirely different sets of gamers.
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4 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:
I would be very careful with FS now. Especially their 1st edition units and foot heroes. This large scale squatting is setting a dangerous precedent for lines GW wants to redo with a whole new design - non thunderstrike SCE have shown that - and considering FS have been the butt of many jokes about their look... now I think the jokes about FS are less funny and more sinister even if I think the army isn't going anywhere.
Having been a workshop player since 1994, I can say the change from a games company to a publicly traded manufacturing company, has changed the way the company looks at it's products.
I can say with confidence; any army that is easily cross-adaptable with TOW will likely be removed for something more fitting with the hyper-detailed, data driven microcosm GW has designed around 40k/AOS.
Ogres, the remnant Dark Elves, even some sylvaneth kits, those will be blasted out of the AOS stratosphere, maybe not now, but probably in the next few years. Ogres in specific. And of course, Ogres was my other AOS army.
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1 minute ago, The Red King said:
I don't understand how only selling the miniatures in ToW could possibly generate more income than selling them in both when they're already going to keep producing the miniatures. Like again they gain the cost of one book in exchange for every BoC sale that might have gone to AoS as well as people like me (who are probably a minority) who are mad enough to stop buying from them entirely.
Like maybe you're just saying the AoS sales are so small it doesn't matter but again it's free money when you're already producing them.
IIRC there was a rumor about the design teams and sales teams bickering about understanding product support from a sales angle because the company couldn't determine IF TOW was why someone bought a kit, or if it was bought for AOS.
Of course, companies nowadays are absolutely hyperfocused on investor returns; as a socialist myself, this has always amused me, because it's abusive to a client base for your profit-seeking to be prime ahead of customer satisfaction. Internal distortions like this in capitalism always amuse me.
TOW, as far as I understand it, is played almost right behind AOS. The AOS design team and the TOW design team, imho, are being unfairly pitted against each other, as workshop tries to figure out which way is the best way forward.
Again, SPECULATION, but from a reputable (by reddit standards) source, who had called this very debacle with BoC in AOS a few months ago.
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I had been playing BoC competitively as a primary through 2023. Painted the army up, go it GT ready and so on. Super enjoyable, awesome rules.
Since TOW dropped, I switched systems anyway. As an old head (I started playing for fun in 1994) AOS was always a placeholder for me, and my heart has always been with Fantasy. My army has already been rebased and been used in TOW, and that's my home now.
I am sorry, my fellow goats. I remember all those years ago when Ravening Hordes dropped and Chaos Dwarfs got nuked from Orbit, and all my big hats were suddenly uncompetitive. Even with the rules lasting through 6th, the army was just never popular again.
You'll legends it for a while, but in the end, BoC is gone, and won't come back to AOS. ****** choice by the design team, just more corporate stupidity and laziness.
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On 6/15/2023 at 4:48 AM, Dolomedes said:
It's a cool list - what prayers are you running on your Cygors? Also how did you manage on objectives? It's a very low body count list, but having said that, none of your match ups really brought many bodies either.
It's a good idea to switch out a unit of bulls for enlightened. Enlightened on foot are crazy cost efficient - you could fit 2 units of 6 in. If you're dropping bulls, I think the great axe Bulls are the ones to go. Their damage output is nowhere near as reliable as the DW Bulls.
Tried a game friday, dropping a Cygor instead of the bulls. I played the same player who used SBGL in my round 1 matchup, and beat him handily, dropping both neferata and the vampire lord on dragon from mortals in the same turn.
I managed to score 5 points in all but like 3 turns in the last event, so bodies wasn't an issue. Positioning is key. The ASL doombull charge in their phase is absolutely critical to the surviviability of the list, making it very prone to anyone that can snipe him out AND fight in combat.
It also depends heavily on matchups. I find a lot of players don't know what to do with null deployment armies, and I've null deployed in every single matchup I've played.
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Just went 2-1 at a local even with the following:
- Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos
- Subfaction: Quakefray
- Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
- Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Doombull (180)*
- General
- Command Traits: Bestial Cunning
- Artefacts of Power: Slitherwrack Helm
- Aspects of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha
Great Bray-Shaman (95)*
- Spells: Vicious Stranglethorns
Great Bray-Shaman (95)*
- Spells: Viletide
BATTLELINE
Bullgors (420)*
- Bloodkine
- Man-splitter Great Axe
- 2 x Warheard Drummer
- 2 x Warheard Banner Bearer
Cygor (210)*
Cygor (210)*
Cygor (210)*
Bullgors (420)*
- Bloodkine
- Paired Cleaving Axes
- 2 x Warheard Drummer
- 2 x Warheard Banner Bearer
BEHEMOTH
Chaos Gargant (145)*
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1985/2000Round 1 was the following:
Army Faction: Soulblight Gravelords
- Army Type: Legion of Blood
- Grand Strategy: Empire of Corpses
- Triumphs: Inspired
LEADER
1 x Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)*
- General
- Command Traits: Doomed Minions
- Deathlance
- Artefacts: Cloak of Mists and Shadows
- Spells: Flaming Weapon
1 x Wight King on Skeletal Steed (160)**
- Artefacts: Amulet of Screams
1 x Neferata (390)**
- Spells: Waste Away
1 x Vampire Lord (130)**
- Spells: Spirit Gale
- Aspects of the Champion: Tunnel Master
BATTLELINE
15 x Black Knights (330)*
- Hellknight
- 3 x Standard Bearer
- 3 x Hornblower
5 x Black Knights (110)*
- Standard Bearer
- Hornblower
- Hellknight
5 x Black Knights (110)*
- Hellknight
- Standard Bearer
- Hornblower
20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)*
5 x Black Knights (110)*
- Hornblower
- Hellknight
- Standard Bearer
CORE BATTALIONS:
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage
- Magnificent
TOTAL POINTS: (1950/2000)My opponent was playing a sort of standard SBGL list? He's been playing them forever, so I know his playstyle quite well. The mission was Nidus Paths. I forced my opponent to go first, and he spread out taking most of the objectives, with Nef and the Dragon hanging around the center of the board. I drew Neferata far back into his deployment zone but not far enough for a teleport, buying myself a turn, with an 11" blood taunt from the corner. I was able to isolate his vampire lord and kill it with 6 minotaurs, along side the skeletons.
In his turn, he was able to claw back board position, hitting a Cygor with the 15 man BK unit, mortaling it off the table, before they were counter charged by my doombull and killed by the 6 minotaurs they engaged. In my turn, I cleared the black knights, and my opponent had the dragon and Neferata left. He won priority, and sunk Neferata and the dragon into both minotaur units. Once more the DB made the Dragon strike last, costing my opponent one of his two hammers as the dragon died to the minotaur mortals. Neferata flubbed some rolls, only killed 2 minotaurs, and took 10 mortals for her trouble - I rolled hot. In the end, I won the game 27-22.
Round 2 -
- Army Faction: Sylvaneth
- Subfaction: Heartwood
- Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
- Triumph: Bloodthirsty
- Seasons of War: The Dwindling
LEADERS
Drycha Hamadreth (320)
- Spells: The Dwellers Below, Verdant Blessing
Warsong Revenant (300)
- General
- Command Traits: Spellsinger
- Artefacts of Power: Gryph-feather Charm
- Spells: Regrowth, Verdant Blessing
- Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage
The Lady of Vines (290)
- Spells: Throne of Vines, Verdant Blessing
BATTLELINE
Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Greatbows (230)
Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Greatbows (230)
Tree-Revenants (110)
- Glade Banner Bearer
- Waypipes
- Scion
- Protector Glaive
OTHER
Gotrek Gurnisson (480)
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Spiteswarm Hive (40)
TERRAIN
1 x Awakened Wyldwood (0)
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000Newerplayer who had never played BOC before. I felt bad, but he had Gotrek.
Gotrek skews every matchup. Mission was jaws of Gallet. I kept my entire army off the table, and forced him to go first. I activated the far right objective, splitting Gotrek from the spell casters, and opening up a chance to net 3 of his hunters and his Lady of Vines on my turn. I got onto the objective with 6 bulls and the doombull, and brought on cygor, waiting to drop the double axe minos on turn two.
His turn he ran gotrek at my bulls, unable to charge (I measured a 16" circle around him every turn, and never went into it - until I got off vicious stranglethorns.) He killed a Cygor, and teleported around, killing little but doing some mortals. My turn two was brutal; Lady of Vines, Tree Revs, remaining archers, dropped. Gotrek was tied up with minotaurs with stranglethorns.
My opponent left combat with Gotrek but knew his time was running out. He killed one bray shaman this turn. In my turn, I killed everything but Gotrek, leading to a final score of 27-15.
Round 3, the eventual winner of the event, didn't submit a list. Was something like this:
Lord of Pain with 1 attack artefact (select a unit, within 6, they have one melee attack - never used.)
Lord of Hubris
Epitome
double reinforced blissbarbs
5 seekers w/ bows
reinforced melee seekers
painbringers
reinforced twinsouls
endless spell (mask with tongues?)
Scenario was battlelines drawn. My opponent went first, and balled up to prevent my from pulling his archers out of formation. In my turn, I ambushed minotaurs into the twinsouls, hoping to lift them; I left one, with one wound left, and knew this would be a problem for the left flank of my forces. I was able to kill 10 archers with 2 cygor stones, as the 3rd missed.
My opponent won prio, did some damage to one cygor, and charged the ten man slickblades into both cygor. The 6 minotaurs that had fought the twinsouls were nuked with strike last and lifted by essentially every hero and the painbringers in his army. The doombull counter charged the slickblades, making them strike last. I lifted 7 of them between the two cygor and the doombull - lucky dice for me. In my turn, I killed the seekers, the bow seekers, and scored five.
My opponent won prio, spread out, plinked some minor damage and positioned. He dropped a cygor here. In my turn, I killed the archers.
We were both running out of models; in his turn, he lifted the remaining minotaurs, and positioned for a run into my deployment zone on bottom five. My turn I positioned for the same.
I rolled the double, took it, and tried to seal the deal. A rock from the cygor ended the epitome, but I failed a needed charge to kill the last painbringer, costing me my ability to stop him from scoring his grand.
In the end, I lost 27-22, and placed second.
Slaanesh is deceptively strong. Their stuff dies so quick, but the painbringer/twinsouls and 5 wound cavalry are deceptively hitty. I am going to drop the 6 man minotaur unit with great axes, and buff the 6 man unit with 2 axes to a 9 man blob and add a unit of enlightened on disc. Stopping commands is seriously strong, and viletide paid off in droves through the event.
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Been working plenty on my old school paint inspired slaves, and tinkering with lists. Does anyone have any advice with archaon? It feels like he's an anvil and a distraction carnifex more than anything else.
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I'd say I am a pseudo competitive player; my builds are focused on winning 3 round events, but also using models I like and a theme I like. I usually do one GT per year, if that, and usually don't care how well I place.
The armies I play are: Ironjawz, Slaves to Darkness, Disciples of Tzeentch, Maggotkin of Nurgle, Beasts of Chaos, Nighthaunt and soon Fangs of Sotek Seraphon sans Kroak.
Ok, caveats out of the way. It feels like a super, super uphill battle against all of the new books. BoC seems less impactful, primarily because the figures are old so the player base is small. But judging from some recent armies/events, my word at the new books really ramping it up.
Khorne's ability to walk into melee out of sequence.
Slaanesh's absurd control./resilience to Melee armies
SBGL mortal output and recursion.
Gloomspite mortal output, general output, speed and recursion.
Ossiarch - I've seen 9 Varanguard kill 2 death riders - and that was all.
Is it just me or are these new books really, really tuned up?
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On 1/23/2023 at 11:16 AM, Ravinsild said:
I really want to use the Daemonfire Rift endless spell. Can anyone help me come up with a competitive list with the models I own to do it?
I own:
1 Gaunt Summoner on Foot
2 Chaos Lord
3 Chaos Sorcerer Lord
2 Chaos Lord on Karkadrak
1 Darkoath Chieftan
2 Daemon Prince10 Chaos Knights
20 Chaos Warrior
20 Darkoath Savagers1 Chaos Warshrine
20 Chaos Chosen (10 new 10 old)
2 Fomoroid Crusher
3 Ogroid Theradons
6 VaranguardAll S2D Endless Spells
All Malign Portents Endless Spells (bridge and horrorghast and launcheon)
All normal endless spells (purple sun and cogs and all that)I think it makes the most sense that it would be Cabalists but somehow every list I make ends up filling up points (because everything is so expensive) and there’s no room left for that sweet looking endless spell. Also almost all of my opponents run endless spells too.
I'd go something like this
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (220)** - General - Command Trait: Idolator Lord - Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (120)** - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle - The Lore of the Damned: Daemonic Speed
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (120)** - Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh - The Lore of the Damned: Binding Damnation
Darkoath Chieftain (95)* - Artefact: Tuskhelm - Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh - Aspect of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha
5 x Chaos Knights (230)** - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle - Ensorcelled Banner: The Eroding Icon
10 x Darkoath Savagers (100)** - Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
10 x Darkoath Savagers (100)** - Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
10 x Chaos Chosen (480)* - Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh - Ensorcelled Banner: The Banner of Screaming Flesh
3 x Varanguard (290)** - 3 x Ensorcelled Weapon - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
Darkfire Daemonrift (80)
Realmscourge Rupture (60)
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (70)
CORE BATTALIONS *Galletian Command **Battle Regiment
1965/2000
Rapture + Jaws is solid mortal output, then you can hit them with the daemon rift. Rift is not what it used to be; but this list does have a decent amount of mortal output from the savagers, charging karkadrak, the endless spells and the nurgle command ability, which is important. I don't like the Savagers too much, I'd rather see a unit of cabal just for the utility. Tuskhelm also helps the mortal output, and the potential fight in hero phase for the slaanesh chosen plus the galletian command of +1 attack and no pile in does even more mortals out of sequence.
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Had a local over the weekend. I'm preparing for Summer Slaughter, which is a GT in July of this year. Played our last set in the old GHB before season two released.
My list:
Karkadrak Lord - Khorne, Helm of the Oppressor, Death Dealer
Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount - Nurgle
Varanguard - Reinforced x1, Mark of Khorne, Fellspears
Varanguard - Mark of Khorne, Ensorcelled Weapons
Varanguard - Mark of Khorne, Ensorcelled Weapons
Knights - Mark of Nurgle, Eroding Icon, all Lances
2x Corvus Cabal
Knights of the Empty Throne, Take What's Theirs - Indomitable
The Vguard were all in bounty hunters, and the rest in a battle regiment. The general idea here, which seems evident, is to use the Cabal to score Barge, desecrate, and set up for march of ruin if I can't score it turn one. The varanguard are so good in this edition with the double pile in, and i've yet to find something the six fellspears cannot drop. The huge threat ranges make miscalculations against this list deadly. I can easily play deep into my deployment zone, forcing you to make bad decisions while the knights and lord form a vanguard that is fast, tanky, and super difficult to remove without a large amount of dedication.
Round 1 - Corey with Cities gunline
His list went something like this:
Freeguild on Griffon w/ resurrect item
Freeguild on foot
Hurrucanum
Dreadlord on Black Dragon - shield and lance
Celestant Prime
2x 10 Outriders with repeaters
30 Crossbowmen
5 Revenants (allies)
Mission was close to the chest. I didn't get ANY pics (save one of a later game) for the tournament, but I'll do what I can from memory.
I screened out of range of the crossbows with my knights, holding the varanguard behind them, supported by both heroes. My opponent lined up essentially a civil war gunline, and I handed him turn one. His shooting killed a few knights, but it wasn't enough to dirt nap the unit. After two turns of an absolute drubbing by my speedy models, Corey had celestant prime, the griffon, and one outrider left. 30-14 win.
Round two was Mike Ludwig running Baleful Lords BoK.
List from memory:
WoK Thirster
3x Insensate Rage Thirsters
Unfettered Thirster
Bloodsecrator
Flesh Hounds
2 x 10 Bloodreavers
2 x 10 Chaos Hounds - Allies
Scenario was Realmstone Cache. This is a tough matchup in the aspect the thirsters can run and charge and Boomthirsters deal tons of mortals. The Varanguard are important in this matchup due to the mortal protection. I forced Mike to go first, and he got piles of GV on the central objective, relegating me to a 2 point turn, since the screens prevented me from hitting the blood reavers behind them. I didn't get the double - and Mike made a play for eye for an eye on a unit of 3 varanguard with the WoK thirster and Insensate rage thirster. The IR thirster killed 1 varanguard and did 4 wounds to another varanguard. In my activation a series of crazy dice lead to the 2 ensorcelled Vguard cutting down the WoK Thirster, costing Mike his BT and the game. From there, the varanguard and karkadrak lord managed to kill all but one thirster over a series of turns, leading to a close win for me. 17-15.
Round 3 was Tim Spangler with FyreSlayers. His list was weird, and I don't know FS very well, so it's all from memory.
Magmadroth with -1 damage
Magmadroth with minimum 5 shots
Magmadroth with extra mortals on stomps
10 Vulkites
Priest, Runeson, and Gotrek
magmadroth invocation
The scenario was battlelines drawn, allowing me to play super conservatively while retaining massive threat ranges. The nurgle knights did their thing, clearing the infantry, and jamming up all three of the magmadroths. I got a lucky bottom of one charge that almost killed a magmadroth with ensorcelled varanguard. In the end, I was able to kill Gotrek with the 6 man fellspear unit, and Tim was left with one 'droth and the priest at the end of the game. I had my knights, karkadrak (who became a DP, I did it because he had near no health left and wanted to heal him back up!) 2 varanguard, and the corvus cabal. 28 to 18 win for me.
In the end I won the event with Slaves. Stiff competition all around, with good players who are used to their armies and knew the matchups. In hindsight, the knights with banner and the lord combo have been absolutely awesome. Even when they don't charge, they're just so difficult to remove, and it's so easy for opponents to leave one left who can retreat into their territory and claim a battle tactic, and a next turn rally from one of the mounted heroes. The list worked as intended; I will probably drop helm of the oppressor for arcane tome on the nurgle lord and change to a strict one drop for the new season. I may also drop one corvus cabal and add an exalted champion or sorcerer with tunnel master to ensure I can get some GC related tactics.
An interesting trick here is the cabal with tunnel master on a sorcerer/hero. Neither can be targeted by normal shooting if you drop the cabal in terrain and the character plops in with them.
Definitely looking forward to the new season.
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Had a game against soulblight using the new seasons. Tried the following list:
Cabalists
Follow the Path to Glory
2,000 pts
Indomitable
Command Entourage for second banner
Chosen and Warriors in GV batallion
Battle reg for the chariots, cabal, and exalted heroes
Sorcerer Lord - General, Master of Magic, Mark of Slaanesh - Daemonic Speed
Sorcerer Lord - Mark of Nurgle - Binding Damnation
Sorcerer Lord - Mark of Undivided - Spite Tongue Curse
Exalted Champion - Undivided, Rune Etched Blade and Runeshield, Helm of the Oppressor
Exalted Champion - Undivided, Rune Etched Blade and Runeshield
Chaos Warriors - Reinforced x1; Mark of Nurgle, Eroding Icon
Chaos Chosen - Reinforced x1; Mark of Slaanesh, Banner of Screaming Flesh
Chaos Chariot - Mark of Slaanesh, Greatblade
Chaos Chariot - Mark of Slaanesh, Greatblade
Corvus Cabal
Spell Portal
Purple Sun
Quicksilver Swords
Played against a regular opponent. Soulblight list went something like this:
Prince Vordrhai
Vampire lord
Wight King General with fragment of the keep and rousing commander
20 zombies
3x5 blood knights
30 grave guard
10 dire wolves
We played the scenario where you can score 2 battle tactics. I won the game after my opponent scooped. I let him go first, and was able to roll +1 speed/charge on the slaanesh chosen. With cabalists, all my buffs were up. turn one, I got the chosen into the 30 Graveguard unit and a unit of 5 blood knights. My chariot rolled 14" on the charge, and dealt 6 mortals to the knights. With double pile in, the ten demonic power'd chosen cleared all 30 grave guard and the remaining blood knights.
They went on to eat 5 more blood knights and prince vordrhai when all was said and done. My exalted champions ran around clipping units, takign objectives, and I didn't score my grand strategy until turn 5. Wonky dice.
The MVP were the slaanesh chosen. With demonic power, there's no need for Khorne in comparison. A close second were the chariots. The mortal output was solid, they are fast and can clip units to prevent getting swamped. It really helps restrict how your opponent can move around the table.
Overall, I was happy with the list, but not the nurgle warriors. They did nothing but march around protecting my heroes. I guess that's their job!
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I feel like after 2 years of AOS 3.0, we would have the rules down on terrain. But it seems to me people are just not playing the woods/forest rules right. Perhaps I am wrong?
The rules seem super clear. All woods/forests are treated as wyldwoods, and all of them have a specific rule for blocking LOS.
Frankly, I don't see anyone play this way. Am I wrong?
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Took the following to a one day RTT @ Rogues Den in Jim Thorpe. This meta is pretty... meta, but weirdly, not meta. There's always a few guys playing meta stuff, and competition is pretty solid.
List Name: Bloodtoofs
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak
- Triumphs: Inspired
LEADERS
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
UNITS
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)**
- Jagged Gore-hackas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)**
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)*
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1 x Gore Choppas
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
**Bounty Hunters
TOTAL: 1980/2000 WOUNDS: 141
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS: 0/3 ALLIES: 0/400
REINFORCED UNITS: 2/4 DROPS: 4Sort of standard, I guess. Anyway, I tried to get it to a 3 drop, knowing most builds sit at four. Given the current point arrangement in the battletome, I was just too far down in points so in went Orksputin, my Shaman.
Ended up going 3-0, scoring 101 battle points over three games.
Round one was a Kairos meme list featuring the following:
Kairos, Changecaster with aura of mutability, Curseling, Fatemaster, 20 Kairics, 9 flamers, 3 screamers and assorted endless spells. Scenario was Head on Collision. I won the roll off and decided to deploy first so I could determine turn order. I deployed my murder bacon outside move and shoot range of the flamers, and allowed him first turn. He got all his spells up - Purple sun, mirror, Horrorghast. I went, got teleport off on the mawkrusher, and used Mighty Destroyers on two buffed murder bacon unit and one unbuffed murder bacon unit. I also got the charge buff off on a reinforced pig unit. Off to the races. He used Fateweaver to force my supercharged pigs into a short charge, but with the Krusher, and 12 pigs hitting his line, he was left with Fateweaver, a changecaster and 5 Acolytes as we went into turn two. He did some spells, I unbound purple sun for the lulz, then he scooped. Final score was 41 to 5.
Round two was Morathi and the Bowsnakes. This is a super tough matchup with Khinerai being a later drop to assassinate my support pieces. His list was something like this: Shadow Queen, Morathi, Priest with arcane tome, 15 melee snakes, 5 melee snakes, 10 bow snakes, 2 units of 5 Khinerai, viper spell. This game was a slog. We played Realmstone Cache. I forced him to go first, and got a lucky double. At the end of turn two, he had morathi, shadow queen, and Khinerai, but was still in the game. We ended up going all five rounds, and the final score was 24 to 21.
Round three was against the guy who wins most events there. He was playing BOC with Belakor. Shaggoth, Belakor, Doombull, 2 reinforced bullgors, 1 double reinforced bullgors, 2 units of screening hounds, some beasties, and some ambushing gor units. Scenario was a disaster for him. The mighty and the cunning. Once more I made him go first, and he screened me out with hounds. I used mighty destroyers to clear a path with the pigs, but wasn't able to kill much of value. Turn two, I won the roll off and took the turn; from here it was a cleanup exercise. He scrooped. Won 36 to 5.
In the end, I played a total of 9 rounds out of 15. Another player went 2-1 with Ironsunz and placed 3rd; the DOK player I played round two placed 2nd. The event was solid, and I muse on how game three went if I didn't get the double. I likely still win the game, because buffed pigs rip through minotaurs and BOC in general, and I could score tons of points just killing his units, especially since they would have to be on objectives to engage me. In short, I do think Ironjawz are really solid this edition, and are really positioned well in the meta. The list played exactly how I wanted it too; I didn't place too much thought into scenarios and how ironjawz play into them, as I really wanted to maximize aggression and just try to table my opponents. The Brutes are sort of a waste and may be swapped out for three more pigs once I can get my hands on them. Overall, good event, and I look forward to trying a double krusher list next.
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3 minutes ago, Doko said:
Yes imposible to deal with them.....but since his launch they have been very popular with many dragons list in every tournament and so far i think they havent won any tournament yet? Many 4\1 but they havent won anithing.
But i see many sc and citys lists that go 5\0 and all have 4\6 fullminators. If sc have any unit broken is fullmis and not dragons
I'm unsure why winning a 5 game GT is a measure by which we assess if something is fun to play against, engaging, or broken and abusive. I don't think that's a good standard. But I do think you'll see them winning plenty in the coming weeks.
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5 hours ago, Halkbat said:
The recent changes absolutely dismantled Archeon Tzeentch lists which were artificially propping up Tzeentch play and win rates.
No destiny dice
No change coven
No heroic recovery in combat
Warmaster on archeon warscroll changed to allow zero benefit from allegence abilties so no locus, agendas, lore spells, can't even summon from him like other tzeentch heros.
It's revealed how thin the Tzeentch book is in 3.0. Dragons, shootcast and other builds utterly eviscerate standard Tzeentch builds, IMHO, save the 50 - 60 horrors lists.
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13 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:
They feel like a prime example of a unit that's abusive against older armies. There was a shift partway through 2.0 and especially with the 3.0 books towards putting out a crapload of non-magical mortal wounds, something that is generally quite rare in the older 2.0 books.
Having a list that completely crushes most older armies with basically no counterplay is really not a good thing for the game. GW thinking it was ok to let dragons be battleline - and at the truly ridiculous original 270 points to begin with - is a prime example of how far the company still is from taking balance seriously.
That's my feeling of it.
The scroll is ludicrously overpowered imho. As for my concerns for the game, I mean, Dragons are legit abusive and horrific to face as a new player that's for sure.
I think the god characters are still a little insane, and Gotrek dodged the hammer, but most stuff is OK - I wish theyd update the older tomes. Some armies are just so bad.
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Over the weekend saw one of the top US players, Kaleb Walters, lose every model in his army to a SCE Drake list with 11 dragons. Literally no counter play; the second the SCE player dropped in, half of the Tzeentch army evaporated; upon winning the double turn, the game was over. 33-0.
Now, I know what folks are going to say. But having seen this list play, 9 dragons and 2 chariots, or 11 dragons, the things are utterly dysfunctional.
They have deep strike. Access to a 2+ save. Multiple rampage options per unit. High rend, high damage melee. Ranged mortals that can shoot out of sequence, with no hit modifier. They have quality in faction buffs that make them harder to wound. They have native spell immunity half the time. They can double move, and so on.
The warscroll is a bloated nightmare of "buy these please, and if you could, ignore the bloat."
Give it a few weeks and you will see these lists dominating the meta. They have totally shaped my local meta, sweeping multiple tournaments yesterday, and, becoming rampant. IIRC, next weekend there is an event of 26, and a quarter of the field plus will be SCE dragon lists.
How the hell does anyone deal with this stuff?
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Stormcast dragons are totally out of control good I'm not sure nurgle has an answer at all.
TOW vs AoS sell-out guess!
in Warhammer: The Old World
Posted
I've totally ditched AOS for TOW anyway. As far as I'm concerned, AOS was always a placeholder board game masquerading as a war game anyway. My club has played TOW and 40k exclusively since TOW launched. Nobody is touching AOS, haven't seen a game of it played in almost 5 months.