Fred1245
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Posts posted by Fred1245
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20 minutes ago, Nos said:
Shame if you have a SC army already and dont want them looking like they fell into a vat of weight gain powder while reforging
I can't imagine caring about this. You don't mind a half of them being in wizard robes over plate armor but get weird about some being swole?
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3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
You don‘t need that. He kills, that‘s all Destruction wants, isn’t it?
But then how do you 'build around him' then? If he has no synergy witb anything but still needs an army built around him to be worth his points, (which is what YOU said) but there's no way to actually do that, then he automatically isn't good.
Also, he's not really gonna kill anything. Most armies will put him down with shooting relatively easily, even with his 2+.
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1 hour ago, Morglum StormBasha said:
The unit caps are super low if that’s for matched play.
Also exclude like...a bunch of stuff. A unit of khinerai or a 6 man squad of liberators or a 6 man squad of palladors.
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5 hours ago, Battlefury said:
GW's decision to not bring out new battle tomes to even out the game experience, might lead into further frustration for the old AND the new books. The 3rd edition changes just might blow off all of the books. And better this way, than just to effect SOME books, since that will caus massive frustration within the community and just incite players against each other.
But I then remeber it is GW, and I think that this scenario might acutally happen.Ever wondered, what Warhammer Plus will be? I am pretty sure that a subscription via monthly paying will grant those people several advantage and it will increase the FOMO aspect further more. Just speculation, but subscribers could have access to limited miniature productions for "only fans".
Just saying...if you don't agree that's ok...but remember we're talking about GW here.Who's wondering about warhammer plus? It's a streaming service. They spelled that out in black and white.
Also, GW paywalls rules but there's no possible way they could paywall a rule that's a streaming service bonus. What are they gonna do, give you a QR code you can scan with your TO to get a free reroll? No one will accept that. Any rules they try to distribute will be freely available all over the internet in minutes. This is one of the few things in this thread that ISN'T a possibility.
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33 minutes ago, PJetski said:
I don't disagree with your overall point but I think Desolators are actually pretty good right now, especially in Astral Templar lists.
I've seen them used as a mobile and durable hammer unit in Anvilstrike lists too.
While solid, neither of those builds are necessarily competitive and investing 600pts minimum in Desolators always leaves you vulnerable. Spending a quarter to a half of your points budget on a unit, only to watch its damage tank down to liberator levels, is never fun.
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4 minutes ago, Sorrow said:
This is purely lore question but how do vampires of Avengorii dynasty fly?
They do have wings but their body looks far too large and their wing muscles too thin to take them to skies.
Almost every fantasy creature that can fly would be completely incapable of getting off the ground in real life. There's a reason birds have hollow bones.
Avengorii fly the same way Stardrakes or Zombie Dragons or Terrorgheists, or Pheonixes, or Bloodthirsters, or Plague Drones do: Magic.
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On 5/24/2021 at 12:51 PM, CommissarRotke said:
I'm also expecting retroactive keywords on the Stardrake, dracoth cavalry, and probably stuff like the Mawcrushas too
edit: just saw that dracolines, stardrakes, and dracoths are named as separate keywords
Most of those units desperately need full warscroll rewrites. The Stardrake has never really been as scary as it looked. The only time it was good was because of its defenses. Dracoths haven't been good since AoS 1.0 (especially with nerfing their breath attack and completely destroying Tempestors' usability). Fulminators don't really do anything and don't survive shooting attacks thanks to all the mortal wounds flying around, Concussors don't do enough damage to be the damage dealing unit and Desolators have always been stupid. Even during that two week period when Cities lists were using squads of 8.
Draconlines are fine...ish but are the armies third heavy cavalry unit so ultimately just act to crowd out other fast movers.
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Just now, Ragest said:
I mean every rule coming from 2021. Br1 was a complete madness with DoK and IdK going near 70%wr in online tournaments, but Slaneesh, new DoK, new Lumineth, Belakor, Soulbight and Kragnos seem pretty balanced to me
Slaanesh is pretty much universally considered to be a significant step back, DoK is only still hanging around because of Morathi-Khaine, Lumineth are supposedly doing a bajillion mortal wounds every turn(my experience here is limited as we have no local lumineth players but with the amount of whining I've heard about them they're apparently quite powerful) and Soulblight is too new to really know for sure but considering it seems to be roughly at where Legions of Nagash was, I can't imagine they'll be particularly relevant.
I guess you could argue that the books are pretty balanced by being unspectacular, but that means basically every book that comes out will be a dud until everybody gets their dud books. I'm not entirely sure that's better? By adepticon next year we'll be looking at Seraphon vs Kharadron for like the top 50 tables, lol.
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4 hours ago, Ragest said:
I'm going to trust in the writers for the first time since January’s debacle with the no-faqs.
I think that every “2.5” books are well balanced (even weak like slaneesh or lumineth) so the powercreep is being toned down and Kragnos itself, the great god of destrucion has a nice warscroll with some good ways to play against.
Taking off battalions and reducing table size is good to play around DR and teleports, so is a nice improvement aswell, and I’m hyped about the new ways to generate CPs.
From what I've seen both Lumineth and Seraphon are actually really really OP while DoK took essentially across the board nerfs and Slaanesh got the same treatment but worse.
I've never heard anyone accuse the last few books of being balanced.
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I doubt I'll play much AoS unless the new stormcast really inspire me.
The current Stormcast book is clunky at best and the new DoK book is uninspired garbage. 40k is just the better experience at the moment and nothing I've seen in the leaked rules makes me think that's likely to change.
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Blood Sisters post Shadow & Pain. I used to love blood sisters for the absolutely massive area a big unit of them could dominate and for being less fragile and buff reliant than Witch Aelves.
Then shadow and pain came out and nerfed their mortal wound ability into the ground in exchange for completely impractical army buffs (Morathi gives them +1 attack but is so expensive you can't realistically take her and any significant amount of blood sisters in the same list, the ironscale gives +1 attack once out of every hundred games if you're willing to sacrifice half a squad of blood sisters to let her attack first, and zainthar kai gives +1 attack if they ban all the good temples and you have to settle for the worst subfaction in the book.)
Combine that with the new battletome nerfing every melee unit across the board whether directly or through witchbrew/sect changes AND a points increase (They went down to 130 for 5 but lost their large unit bonus which means the common squad of ten configuration when down 20pts while the second most common squad of 20 configuration went UP 40) and you have a unit that is now utterly outclassed by it's own little sister unit(blood stalkers) that WOULD have been my answer to this question pre-Shadow & Pain.
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Just noticed the Hagg Nar 5++ shield is by model wholly within and not by unit. Practically that means with the range increase from 7 to 12 it's largely unchanged in terms of effectiveness. It stops situations where you would have used one model to give the whole unit the shield, but still allows for some amount of congalining and doesn't fully deny 12.1 inch charges the way the witch aelf change does.
Still a nerf but a very fair one that I have no problem with considering it primarily functions to eliminate the most egregious exploitations of the rule.
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9 hours ago, Eternalis said:
I don't see Lifetaker as an harrassing unit. To me, they are a kamikaze missile unit that may deal a lot of damage. 10 Lifetakers charging inside the Shadow Queen aura will deal a lot, even more with some buffs, which is pretty good for 160 points.
If I want to control objectives, I'd be using Shadowstalkers or Hearthrenders.Lifetakers just don't have the damage output to be a kamikaze unit. Even with Morathi's bonus, 10 lifetakers only do 13 damage to a 4+ save on average. Without Morathi they only do about 9. It's not terrible output for the price but with how fragile they are, anything that counter attacks them IS going to kill the whole squad so not even being able to kill 80pts of liberators reliably is a problem. They're still great at pressuring objectives and the extra rend helps them do that job better, but it doesn't quite give them any new jobs.
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11 hours ago, frostfire said:
I know everybody is happy with lifetakers having +1D and +1 rend on the charge now.
But what about their drawback? 5 wound with 6+ save at 80pts does not look very durable as we are in a shooting and magic meta.
Rating them as harassing units might not seem appropriate because we have shadowstalkers which is insanely great atm.
Maybe people rate them as glass hammer damage dealer when charging?
Always had +1 damage on the charge so it's only the +1 rend they got. They're what they've always been, a great option for pressuring backline objectives and controlling your opponents movement in order to zone out their deepstrike. Neither they nor heartrenders have ever been particularly good at killing things and +1 rend on the charge certainly isn't going to change that. But they are still useful in their capacity as a deepstriking threat on underprotected objective.
Just don't charge anything tougher than a depleted squad of liberators if you want them to live, lol.
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On 2/16/2021 at 7:26 PM, Jaskier said:
Doomfire Warlocks seem really darn good to me. They're a wizard with a built-in +1 to cast and unbind, are incredibly fast, are more efficient defensively than most of the other units in the book, and offensively actually don't compare badly at all even to Witch Aelves before accounting for cross-unit synergies.
Where they obviously fall down a bit is that our buffs are better suited to bigger units with smaller base sizes; getting 30 Witch Aelves within 1" is much easier than getting 15 Warlocks within 1" (though obviously being over twice as fast helps alleviate that) with the other very minor issue being we can't really buff their ranged profile. They also can't be Battleline which is a strong consideration for list building nowadays with regards to particular missions.
Still, if you can make the most out of that 14" move to get as many of them in combat as possible, they're every bit as good a target for Mindrazor/Witchbrew/Catechism/etc as our other units - if not better - because of their 4 attacks per model and innate Rend on their blades. The ranged weapon also shouldn't be undersold; it's short ranged but can easily mince weaker/smaller screens which a Witch horde couldn't do on its own. There's also the consideration of just how good they are in Hagg Narr to surround a Cauldron; they can even give themselves Mystic Shield for that extra bit of tankiness.
Definitely a unit I'm very interested in now for competitive lists (whereas before I always thought they were just decent) more choice is a great thing and that's easily the defining aspect of this new book for me so far.
Doomfires definitely got better, even accounting for them not being able to cast lore of shadows spells anymore. There might just be something there, especially considering just about every other frontline unit took major nerfs.
There's still some choices left in the book, it's the dedicated melee units that took the shaft. SoS, WA, and BS got hammered so hard I can absolutely see doomfires coming into their own as a result. Too bad they're so ugly.
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4 hours ago, Blitzd said:
This actually makes me think we've always been playing it wrong, the book and the core rules are pretty explicit that wounds and mortal wounds are two different things. Fanatical faith specifies both, but the hag narr ability specifies only wounds. I'm leaning to it not making MW protection 5+ and it never actually has.
DoK have been in a featured match in every major tournament since the book drop, often played by or against the designers of the game; and every time the rule was used as a 5++ against both wounds and mortal wounds so I think we're pretty much in the clear on that one.
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4 hours ago, Chumphammer said:
Postit notes for scale
Board is 6x4
1st pic cauldron on 12" line
2nd on 18" line
Last in the middle
So about 2 objectives on average. About what I thought it was.
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11 hours ago, Eternalis said:
Even with our current Book (v1.5) Teclis prevents me to use my Mindrazor. MR sucks and is unreliable. And it's even harder to use than Mirror Dance, it's a really bad spell!
Like all our strategy including Mind Razors. When will GW nerf SCE???
You mean 6+? Yeah right, this new 5+ is worse than the current 6+! How dare they? And now it comes with a +1 to wound CA, did I need to mention how bad it is compared to the current book where we have no CA at all, on almost ALL our characters?
In a Battalion. Now you have access to this "bonus" but for all your units if you're going Khelt Nar... That's worse for sure. It's so bad, they even kept the battalion just in case!
The melee ones? Yeah it's so bad they gain some rend and damage when they charge. They were way better before that.
And you know what? They were 80pts and now they are 80pts, what a freaking points hike. Unbelievable.Could still fight without Mindrazor, Can't TP without TP spell. Or was your plan just to move your models and hope your opponent didn't notice, lol? Also, look at this guy, bragging 'cause they did absolutely nothing to fix ****** our casting has been in the current meta
Splitting hairs about abilities that suck. 5+ or 6+ they're both bad. And when are you gonna use a CA other than inspiring presence now that witch brews gone? Oh I forgot, you're just a fan of your models running off the board
Ooh, nice bonus at the expense of most of your offense and ALL of your defense. I'm sure a mediocre repositioning ability is worth all of that. And a battalion that gives an ability that's completely useless for 1/6ths of the factions in the book is obvious just super great game design. I TOTALLY see how wasting space on lazily repeating army abilities is just so inspired.
They always got extra damage on the charge. Did you even read the last book there chief? The rend is nice...or it would be if they hadn't gone up 40pts for a usable unit size. Because yunno, 320-280 is 40. Cause that's how math works? Course maybe you think 10 is plenty, what with all those big tourney lists running nothing but units of 10 witch aelves? Oh wait...lol.
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11 hours ago, Jacek said:
I think he meant 20 Khinerai Lifetakers unit points reduction to 280 ?
That was gamechanger and meta abused - everyone played that
Which makes it even weirded that they took it away, doesn't it bud?😉
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9 hours ago, Eternalis said:
Here is some stats I made to know if new Witches are worse than the current ones. They're in Hagg Narr for this test (and I included some Draichi Ganeth just to try). edit : BR is for bravery... :
How are they even worse? Ok you won't be dealing 150 wounds to a low bravery with 6+ saves, but on the other hand, they're more reliable. And damn, these Draichi Ganeth witches will tear Ossiarchs or other high saves armies apart...
The big issue is 1. Without hagg nar shield or witchbrew's battleshock protection it takes about 4 mortek guard to wipe a squad of 30 witches(hyperbole, but not by much) and any situation where the unit is required to run and charge something is likely going to take at least 1 model more than 12" away from a hero, at which point they lose between 25 and 50% of their damage output. That high save ossiarch better be sitting on top of your Cauldrons or it's gonna be a short fight.
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2 hours ago, Frowny said:
I'm really liking the looks of this. Lots of options, and all the temples were really improved so well see a lot more choices, i think. Not just endless hag gnar.
Fallback+charge is very strong, especially across the board.
Witches are slightly worse bit a lot cheaper. I think a big unit will still do plenty of blending, although I think sisters of slaughter will now consistently edge them out.
Shadow stalkers are bananas good. Having played with tree revenants before that warscroll alone is mind-blowingly powerful.
Fighting twice on a 5+ is worlds more reliable and goes great with the 6inch pile in and activate. The first 6inch pile in let's you basically fight First and nearly kill your first target. Then if you get lucky, you can do it again! And if not, you at least mostly killed the first unit, so are still in a good position anyway.
Witchbrew did take a nerf but it doesn't seem insurmountable. More like a nice thing when it works rather than to be relied upon but still fine to have.
Khinari life takers as a 10x also seem interesting as a super fast high damage missile.
I think we'll see a lot more diversity.
Did people even play the old book? Witches are exactly the same price. We already had shadowstalkers, we already had the 5+ fight again ability, no one one used it because it sucks. We already had access to retreat and charge, it saw very little use. The witchbrew nerf is completely insurmountable because they took a buff that was mandatory to have and got rid of it without compensating the rest of the army in any way. Khinerai at rend -1 are still not 'super high damage' AND they took a points hike.
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30 minutes ago, Overread said:
It doesn't matter if KO went up or other armies came down - the key is trying to meet in the middle between the two so that more armies stand on a level playing field - as much as is humanly possible and accepting that armies will have bad compositions and good ones. Ideally a flatter plane field of balance with armies coming down and focusing on good internal balance (ergo options) means that we end up with more armies able to field more options from their book; not just a few power armies running basically the same list because its the one combo that works.
For their gains and losses the DoK and Slaanesh books seems to be pushing toward having no clear "wins all" type list at present. Ergo that we are seeing more variety potential being displayed.
No, both armies got pigeonholed into relying on whatever got nerfed the least, in this case their good shooting units. Making a book weaker doesn't increase variety, it forces you to ditch all but the absolutely most efficient options.
Strong books can afford variety, weak books are required to spam whatever thing is the least weak,
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6 hours ago, Jacek said:
By the way, reading comments seems like many people think that win = killing all enemy units.
There are objectives to be captured for the win.
DoK have many good tools for that:
Mirror Dance spell - I think this is a must now. Awesome, you can teleport 2 heroes almost wherever you want to keep their "wholly within" bubbles after your other units move in their movement phase.
Khailebron - maybe can't apha strike but this CA is NOT considered mvement. So impact of not moving next movement phase is low. Why? You can teleport them again if needed. If they are in combat - you dont need move in most cases (I understand that you cant make retreat move then? Doesn't matter - you can teleport them OUT of combat now with CA, you should be able to because you can teleport hero in hero phase with Mirror Dance if needed so they are wholly within 12" at the end of movement phase when you use teleport CA)
Khinerai - keeping them in reserve makes enemy to stay back with their stronger units defending their objectives and their army is more splitted. 80 points for that? awesome.
Shadowstalkers - even one alive makes enemy contribute his units to defend objectives as well meaning he will not always be able to utilize all of his buffs etc
Cauldrons - cheaper now and keeping your most important units in wholly within it's range is not that hard with mirror dance spell.
Bloodwrack Shrines - AWESOME now. 160 points for 13 wounds, 2 dispel, 1 spel, impacts on charge, nice anty-horde shooting, dmg aura. Remember that it can benefit from Ironscale CA - as it is still MELUSAI (run 2d6 with that (re-roll 1s for run, shoot and still charge if needed)
Ironscale - viable choice for 110 pts now, more of utility hero giving you more options for quick movement depending on what you want to play. In my opinion 1 is enough as you can't use CA more than once in a phase anyway
Mindrazor - can't build army around only this spell. But there are possibilities to invest more resources (see above) when it kicks in to hit hard enemy with that bonus rend and dmg. Most probably bonus dmg will trigger more often based on charge than higher bravery. If it fails - you have possibility to plan for further rounds and each further round makes your army a bit stronger (blood rites)
I had very close lost game vs OB (very, very good player + very good army) in a game when NONE of my teleports with mirror dance worked (all failed 6+ and he had no unbinds anyway).
That is only my opinion but at least I see many possible options. Now DoK requires more thinking and positioning etc. but if executed correctly they are still deadly and have many possibilities to fight for objectives even in later rounds. And this is only very short time after leaks of new book. Some time later I think people will find more viable builds than before (of course difficulty of the army is raised a bit in general I suppose so don't expect auto-wins withot thinking)
@Edit:
In short - we have many tools to pick our fights when we want and are strong. If enemy is 1 deathball - we can just have a chase contest for objectives making enemy to split his forces and lose buffs. If you want to YOLO 1st turn then it will not work in most cases.
I love how you list a perfect example of why mirror dance is stupid like it proves that it isn't. 'See, I lost this game where I had literally perfect conditions for using the spell because it failed over and over, that proves that it could work!' What that game proved is that mirror dance sucks and is unreliable.
This is continuing the trend of pretending like these weren't all things we could do before the book dropped, only better. We're as much worse at taking objectives as we are at fighting. Relying on mirror dance to bail us out of how bad our rules are all over the place just means that a single knight incantor will be able to shut down these strategies itself, yunno, if your dice don't.
People aren't going to find 'more viable builds' because nothing changed. There were no significant updates outside of limitations a restrictions being added.
This is more philosophical here but, every single one of these optimistic takes includes a sentence like: 'DoK requires more thinking and positioning' and 'if you play perfectly you might still be able to do stuff' like those aren't tacit admissions that the book is worse.
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9 hours ago, stratigo said:
Actually they were trash right before the book dropped and it looked like the handful of good units they did have got nerfed (and they did, neither arkanauts or rigger are near as strong as they used to be), but some people did warn about the terror that is a WLV on turn one from anywhere.
Legit a WLV spews out like 15 mortal wounds. Spell in a bottle was a mistake, it's too hard to balance
eh? Table size never really mattered for shooting or melee in AoS. Everything just teleports or moves 30 inches in a turn these days. What top table army isn't jamming their face in turn 1? Actually what top table army isn't using teleports everywhere? IDK maybe? IDK is really the only strong army that isn't hyper focused on ruining people turn 1 and instead prefers to do it turn 3.
To add to this, it's not like KO suddenly got figured out and start dominating because players learned all the hidden tricks. They started dominating because all the good armies at the time got significant nerfs and everything they had went down 20-25%.
So yeah, when a unit of 30 witch aelves costs 200pts and Kroak costs 1200 we might see a turnaround.
The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted · Edited by Fred1245
It's an undercut, mostly popular with the punk/goth/le$bian crowd.
Also, why does this site censor that word? That seems...problematic.
Karen haircut is a totally different thing.