Fred1245
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Posts posted by Fred1245
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2 hours ago, Chikout said:
It unfortunately seems to be rather easy to pick and loser. It's much harder to pick a winner. A lot of the top armies got pretty big points hikes. Some armies like Nurgle and FEC got quite a light touch. Interesting times.
Between core rules and barely getting touched, Lumineth seem almost unstoppable.
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28 minutes ago, Mutton said:
This is a reduction of extremes, and of what my point is. The "My toy didn't get the right point value so I'm quitting the game" attitude is the same as those people who burned their Warhammer armies when AoS began. It's the same as never trying a food, but insisting you hate it. People have NO experience with the game in its new state, but are wanting to start a petition to stop it. They're letting their emotions overpower rationality, which often happens when new ideas are introduced into any ecosystem.
You must not be aware of the many posts I've made in the past railing against corporations. I'm absolutely pro-consumer. Corps are everything wrong with society. No one is saying people can't voice their opinions, but it's gone a little beyond that. This isn't a call to mindlessly consume. It's a rallying cry for everyone to stop being vicious, enraged nobheads about a silly soldier game we haven't even tried yet.The thing is though, only the people defending the game have been vicious or enraged or using something as childish as name calling.
Everyone is suggesting things like 'Slaanesh is bad and they got really high increases so they're probably still bad and that makes me sad' or 'if when we get all the information it still looks bad, we should hold off on purchasing things' or 'historical precedent shows that AoS is usually really bad at the launch of the new edition and will need some FAQ time to find it's feet. It's worrying that the issues are more subtle than last time.'
You're the one running around calling people 'knobheads'. Maybe you should get your own house in order first?
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5 hours ago, Chumphammer said:
My 1st list and the points change difference for dok
Don't take heart. If your opponent has a priest you'll only actually get value out of it 33% of the time. Or 41.65% with the Avatar. If you drop both (especially considering how bad the Avatar is now that it's super rare to have a free prayer to activate him) then you'll have enough to reinforce a unit of Stalkers.
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47 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:
Same. I haven't legitimately lost a game yet with Daughters in my playgroup, it will be nice to have to actually push in order to win.
I do wish that some units like Witches hadn't been hit so hard, for no apparent reason... but still, it will be good for my opponents to not feel like they're slogging uphill all game.
That's more a problem with your opponents than the army. DoK got hit almost as hard by their new book as Slaanesh did outside of Morathi and Blood Stalkers. If people are still struggling against the Blood Stalker, Blood Sister, Morathi, Screens combo everyone's been running since the Witch Brew nerf, that's on them.
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15 minutes ago, Athrawes said:
And I'd say expecting games workshops attempt to balance their game to be flawless for every army (when they have never managed it before) is equally unrealistic.
Having lived through many edition changes, this one looks very polished by comparison in terms of eyeballing balance, but all their armies have never been on an even footing at the launch of a new edition. Some people screeching like they have been purposely slighted by gamesworkshop for their choice of army is a tantrum.
I'd argue that trying to organize a boycotting effort over something that just 5 years ago warhammer fans would have killed for (yearly points updates) because you're unsatisfied with them is the height of entitlement.
Could things be better? OF COURSE. Could they be worse. YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT.
On the whole, and playing several of the armies the "community" has declared have been nerfed into oblivion, This edition change seems to have a wider swath of armies within swinging distance of their peers, with some high and low outliers, but compared to earlier edition changes this looks to be in a better state.
People online need to have more realistic expectations.
So your argument is that we should be greatful because at least it wasn't worse.
Galaxy brain take, that.
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1 hour ago, Malakithe said:
Same. Probably going to focus on 40k more over the next year until GW fixes points across the board. I think now people are starting to see what ive been saying about points increases being bad.
There are a lot of people who are defending the state of the edition currently that seem to have forgotten that AoS 2 was completely broken until the first major FAQ came out.
GW thought unlimited Command Abilities and Kroak were fine. The very first tournament of the edition immediately saw 64 damage per attack grots and Kroak average 100 mortal wounds PER TURN.
Because the problems in this release are mostly systemic rather than 'well duh, of course you can't just let people use shoot again in the hero phase 12 times in the first turn' it's going to take a lot longer to fix it.
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2 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:
Slaanesh points still feel like a weird sort of gaslighting experiment to see if 1984 can be replicated in the real world. "Yes, we are now at war with Eastasia, and Slaangors are properly pointed at 150 points for 3."
Looks like the same people who did the initial points for 40k 9th edition did the points for AOS 3.0 too.
Both the Slaanesh book and the DoK book were ACROSS THE BOARD nerfs to those factions(DoK gets glossed over because Morathi and Blood Stalkers still win games, but it was a garbage book too) and yet they're still acting like it's Fall 2019 and these are the 'premiere' competitive factions. I know there haven't been many events to draw on but hell...
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3 minutes ago, Juicy said:
utterly lost for words about al these uninspired increases. There was just increase... no point balance. Nothing like we thing this unit should cost more and this less. That slaanesh has gone up is just another blow in the face for the slaanesh players. Lost for words on that.. I dont even collect slaanesh but i feel sorry for them.
Balance team is just super disconnected to the whole game its unreal. just lost for words for this whole leakDoK wasn't as bad off as Slaanesh, but you can still see the same lack of thought in their increases.
Named Hag queen going up by more than DOUBLE despite plenty of people not using her at 80pts. Witch Aelves going up by more than Blood Sisters despite seeing 0 competitive play since the new book. Morathi, the best unit in the book, going up less percentage-wise than any of the other heroes despite no one taking anything but her and a Bloodwrack to make Blood Sisters battleline. Cauldron and Avatar changes ignoring how badly the priest changes hurt them in the early turns. What a bad start to a new edition.
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The DoK changes shown pretty much confirm that this edition isn't really for me.
Some of them are utterly asinine. Morgwraeth more than DOUBLE? People don't always take her at 80, Avatars of Khaine still going UP when the new priest rules make them almost impossible to activate? Cauldrons going up in line with everything else when they are ALSO almost impossible to activate now?
But those aren't the ones that irk me. It's the ones where they clearly think they had it nailed BEFORE and they're just keeping it in line are that really get my blood going. Witch Aelves going up by 20 when Blood Sisters only went up by 10? Why? No competitive DoK list has taken Aelves since the book savaged witch brew and morale is even harsher now. It's not Coherency, neither Blood Sisters or Aelves care about that. Did they not sell enough Shadow and Pain boxsets? What's the deal?
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8 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:
I do not, of course, see where you acknowledge that anywhere. You mention several times that Morathi and Morgwaeth "lost" spells or prayers, which is debatable at best.
You also mention several times that Cauldrons and Avatars can't fight until turn 3... which is also not factual. You just have to use the intended mechanics to enable them.
Even if everything you said was true, as a DoK player I'm happy. The game as a whole is better, and maybe I won't win every single game against less powerful armies regardless of how many mistakes I make on the basis of the entire book being well above baseline power.
That said, several of the changes you noted are only nerfs to DoK from a very specific lense. I look at the system wide changes to priests as bringing all priests in line with the "nerfs" that came to them in the new battletome. Everyone else got brought down to their level - except DoK has a superior selection of priests in general as compared to most other factions.
Their intended mechanics is a prayer unless you're Hagg Narr. You'll likely only have 1 prayer to use and it's doubtful you'll spend it on an Avatar or a Cauldron(and if you do, you're already in trouble).
The summation was that it didn't impact the decision to take Morathi and DID impact the decision to take Morgwraeth. No cascading effect was mentioned for the rest of the army, the implication is painfully obvious. Unique models getting spells or prayers is irrelevant outside of Morgwraeth.
That last bit is pretty generous. Slaughter queen on foot has never been good, Slaughter Cauldron's CA was always situational(Daughters tend to die before the start of your hero phase) and is now competing for a LOT of other abilities for CP, Hag Queens are of Dubious value outside of Hagg Narr(and Morgwraeth) thanks to the hammer Witchbrew took, and Hagg Cauldrons are +Save aura bots for the most part.
It's a fair point that everyone else's priest suck as bad as ours at praying now, but we also relied on our priests more than other armies.
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5 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:
You realize of course there's like, a 99.9% chance that unique characters are fully intended to gain access to the appropriate spell lores and prayer lists right?
I've heard several people say they've heard from playtesters running these characters with these abilities.
I'd not assume that any faction is going to do badly based on that particular rules item until the FAQs are out.
It's irrelevant. The only difference it makes to ANYTHING about the army is whether or not you take Morgwraeth. It has 0 impact otherwise.
I even mention that in the post, you, of course, realize?
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DoK: Reinforcement Nerfs leave Witch Aelves and SoS in an even worse spot. Not that anyone was taking them anymore.
Monster and hero rules help Morathi be better so, even losing access to Mindrazor, she'll be in 110% of Daughters of Khaine lists.
Priest rules are a massive across the board nerf to all priests. I would expect Cauldrons to be the only Priest Keyword we see(too bad they can't fight until turn 3) Especially with Morgwraeth not having Prayers anymore(the generic prayers are GARBAGE). The invocation is dead and so are Avatars, because again, after the nerfs they can't fight until turn 3.
Blood Stalkers suffer quite a bit from both reinforcement and the terrain buffs so will likely not be as common. Just in time to expose how bad Daughters of Khaine are in melee in the new book.
Blood Sisters will still see 100% preference over aelves while being 100% mediocre.
Positive side: 1 drop deployment is trivial.
Nothing else will be impacted in any meaningful way.
Net result: Morathi will have to carry the army on her own until 4th edition.
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1 hour ago, CaptainSoup said:
The same way you do in 40k. Remember that the wording says you cannot have anything higher than a +1 to your save, but that doesn't mean you cant stack save modifiers. If 3rd edition is taking notes from 40k 9th, you still add and subtract any and all modifiers you have to said unit, but it will only ever end up being at most a +1 to the save.
What they said. 😝
40k doesn't have the limit on saves.
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1 hour ago, nuttyknatty said:
Is someone trying to argue that spells aren’t Enhancements?
Seems clear to me that they can’t be used by Unique units.
It is clear.
It also one of the dumbest rules added to Sigmar. Including the mustache thing.
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25 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:
So we got some interesting bits of information from todays official GW Warhammer Community articles.
Firstly the Disciples of Tzeentch preview confirms that Warscroll Battalions cannot be taken in Matched Play games.
The other article talks about the upcoming GHB release that will come along side the Core Rulebook release.
Firstly it mentions the name of the Matched Play Battlepack we've been talking about, Battlepack: Pitched Profiles 2021.
It also mentions the return of Realm Rules, which was noticeably absent during the CRB reviews this past weekend. The article previews what you can get when we play in the realm of Ghur, including more core battalions for matched play that are outside the CRB, new abilities to use if you go second, and a new spell that lets your hero have the monster keyword for a turn (though again, only if your game is in the realm of Ghur).
Overall some interesting tidbits of information. I for one like the fact they regulated the realm rules for matched play, as it means its one less thing to worry about when playing more casual game settings.
Realm rules again? God I hate those. 'Roll a dice, on a 6 you lose! Can't you feel how NARRATIVE it is!'
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9 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:
Doesn't he also have an ethereal spell? So 3+ ignoring red with a 5+ ward, healing 2d3 each battle round. Pretty crazy, but I think all the big boys will be a lot better.
How many times does it needs to come up that ethereal ignores modifiers?
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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Interestingly, the other really bad unit from recent memory, Black Knights, might also turn out decent in 3.0 if the gaps between deployment zones shrink to 18" like we have been seeing on a few leaked battle plans.
I can't imagine they'll do 18" for the competitive battleplans. You mights as well deploy both armies directly into combat.
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2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:
Its an enhancement that can't be chosen since you always get one anyways. If for some reason you didn't get a command trait you could take it, as far as I can tell there is no scenario where you don't get a command trait.
I think they just wanted command traits to be included with the rest of the enhancements as a reference, so they can refer to these things collectively. It would also be a bit strange if command trait was the only thing left out.
Make a named character your general, no CT.
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2 minutes ago, frenk_castle said:
Ok so I do not get a command trait or artefact according to these core rules. I am ok with that. I mean I would like to get them but ok. I have a game with a friend on weekend to try out new edition so I want to get as much as the rules right.
No CT or Artefact or book spell or book prayer. Or mount bonuses.
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Just now, Beliman said:
I want to add that this is just pre-GHB2021 and FAQs. There are some synergies that are lost with the new Core Batallions:
You can choose 1 extra SKYVESSEL to have a great endrinwork for each warscroll battalion in your army
That means that old Enhancements are not working as intended (same with Mounts, Mutations or whatever your army used before).
Unless they are and GW's answer is 'go feth yourself, you get nothing'.
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11 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:
I believe you get one of each type of Enhancement for free, straight up.
Unless you're a named character, then you get nothing.
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5 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
Well at the moment I'm building lists (for multiple factions) that want to take the first turn, and give the opponent the double... so it is a situation choice. Also heavy shooting armies themselves are very vulnerable to the double, not just because of incoming enemy damage but because of the slow pace that they score points, often needing two player turns to secure objectives.
Shooting armies are in a bind, because they need to rely on dictating the pace of the game, but many don't lend themselves nicely to being low drop. I think DoK might be the only one that can have a functional list and be 1 or 2 drop, but I don't really call them a shooting army. Just an army with a strong shooting portion. And, even there they start to run into points issues, as Morathi, an Ironscale, and 15 Blood Stalkers is pushing 1300 points very quickly if rumours of their new points cost are true. They also lose access to artefacts. You need to build your lists so that you can engage with your opponents CP pile, and force decisions. Hunting Generals, forcing the opponent to use CP they would rather use to shoot in the hero phase, etc, etc. Going Second means having your CP baited out if you are playing into the double turn, and having less CP when you take the top of the next battleround.Also implicit in the double turn is a fresh opportunity to interrupt my opponents plans with unbinds, and denying prayers. While gaining more value from getting my own spells, prayers, and abilities for an addition player turn.
Most of the time you are experiencing a bad time on the double because you don't have control of the board. The new CMD abilities give players the ability to interact with the board state while retaining the unpredictability the priority role brings.Firstly, why would you bring an ironscale over a bloodwrack in a shooting army? Second of all, DoK have been a shooting army since they torched most of our melee options. Most lists have 1 or 2 units of blood sister because witch aelves and Sisters of Slaughter are trash now, and that's it. We also ALREADY go without artefacts so who cares?
The rest of that is mostly wishful thinking. You're not going to be baiting out CP or doing cool tactics, you're going to be dying. If you manage to die slow enough that you're not fully neutered by the end of the double turn, congrats, you probably win! If you don't die slow enough, you lose.
Nothing you do with CP matters because the other player can just counter it with CP(they have more than you turn 1 remember?) DoK especially don't use prayers offensively anymore and with Morathi apparently losing her book spell, don't need those either. The question will be dice. Do they throw enough dice at you to heavily damage your counter attack? If yes, you lose, if no you win. Nothing else in the game matters but how many wounds you fail to save in the first two turns.
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6 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:
Of course they won't cheat? Why would you think they would?
Because you said they would? What did you think deliberately not following unit coherency was called?
Heads up, it's cheating deliberately not remove your models when they lose all their wounds too.
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3 hours ago, Malakree said:
Tournament games are 2:30? It depends on how severe the points increase is and the actual impact it has on list building. It's would be equivalent to building a 1750 list at the moment which is highly restrictive for some armies and essentially forces standardisation of lists on those armies.
Some people said they same stuff in the run up to 9th and it wasn't really true then either.
Fact is, the people who run events and most of the people who play at events are absolutely not going to be willing to move off of 2000pts so you can fit an extra Gargant or whatever.
We'll take the blissful first few months of more people finishing their games on time before point drops inevitably creep everything back up.
AoS3 - The points discussion
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
These are points changes. The whole point of legends was to never update any of those again.