wanderingrogue
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Posts posted by wanderingrogue
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so... has everyone written the same list yet ???? hahah
so after the warhammer weekly ko review a lot of people have asked me if i really thing the ko is bad... and ill reiterate that i think its a bad book... but doesnt necessarily mean it will produce bad (or even unfun) lists....its just the process to get there is quiet laborious and a challange (and competitively speaking very narrow focused)
that said i still love my baloon boys and im taking em to heat 1 in a week :
Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Zilfin
Mortal Realm: ChamonKharadron Code
- Artycle: Master The Skies
- Amendment: Don't Argue With the Wind
- Footnote: There's Always a Breeze If You Look For It
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General - Grudge Bearer - Omniscope
Aetheric Navigator (100)
Aether-Khemist (90) - party popper
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 2x Drill Launcher
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 2x Drill Launcher
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Zonbarcorp 'Debtsettler' Spar Torpedo
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
- Main Gun: Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Zonbarcorp 'Dealbreaker' Battle Ram
Iron Sky Command (130)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1-
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174066786678
Fully painted undead age of sigmar army. Themed. Oop models. Games workshop.. Condition is used. Dispatched with Royal Mail 1st Class.
Contains:
Two goblin vampire lords (Oop models) on top of zombie dragons
Nefferata
Coven throne / Mortis engine with Oop goblin shaman
Ten zombie goblins
10 dire wolfswhats app me for preference or text on 07932068501
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7 minutes ago, DantePQ said:
@wanderingrogueI am not disputing that Thralls are good and crucial to Fuethan list as I know they are but calling 6th place at Balckout a good but not very good results is just wrong especially considering that other Deepkin lists results in biggest tournaments (no Top3 finishes) . By that logic not a single ID list is getting very good results in big tournaments.
It's up to each player preference if I could I would take 3x3 Ishlaen Guard in Fuethan Reverse Tide list but it's impossible so Thralls and Reavers are good and are crucial.
It's my opinion that there isn't enough mechanics to support Thralls heavy oriented lists to be consistent in competitive play. Sure I could be proven wrong and I'd be happy to be wrong about this.
results.. plural - a single result alas doesnt make it optimal.
maybe check james tinsdale on rankings for a better idea, because they deffo have topped 3'd
but fair enough,. ill take the corps to heat one
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10 minutes ago, N_Watson said:
Pretty much this. And it was me who won the Northern masters. Thralls are awesomesauce 😂
And I'm taking Les' list to a tournament in two weeks, because it's still a great list. Fancy a change up.
yea its got to the point i need to change it up too.
running nammarti corp monday:
Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Fuethan
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- General
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
- Artefact: Rune of the Surging Tide
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Isharann Soulrender (100)
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak
10 x Namarti Reavers (140)
10 x Namarti Reavers (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
Namarti Corps (100)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
50 namarti - and i think it could take a tournament.
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23 hours ago, DantePQ said:
Not really Les Martin had great results with Volturnos list so your point is just false.
And my Thralls lists I mean Thralls focused lists not some Thralls that fill up Battleline in Fuethan lists as they are very hand and crucial but those lists are Morssar heavy alpha strikes.
unfortunately les hasnt got very good results with said list - okay ones, but not very good. James tinsdale and myself always go 3 units of thralls minimum and constantly get top tens with it. The guy that won the scottish masters... had 3 thrall units.
And they are not make weights, just cos feuthan is the powerhouse. i was taking them when i ran dhom hain too. They are your screens in a pinch, you chaff cleaners, objective holders and tool kit units.
To put it simply:
If you want consistent results with deepkin, your army needs both morssar and namarti. Everything else, im sorry, just isnt optimal (if thats the thing you care about)
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1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:
In most regards the comparison is mute because you can't.
Of my 30 namarti I would drop 10 for 3 Ishlaen. If only so I could play my eidolon more aggressively. Since the strategy is still primarily one of decapitation strikes.
I think Thralls need a 3rd stance if neither of the conditions are met, probably a -1 to be hit by melee weapons of models with2 and 3 wound, or alternatively buff all Namarti with +2 MV, or a 6+ shrug from isharaen models that boats buff with +1.
Without turn 2 high tide I don't think msu Namarti are actually playable. Especially given the poor quality of Namarti Corps, and the soulrender's lurelight. Say what you want about the allopex but at least it does what it says it does, namely DMG. The Soulrender is a broken warscroll, with no ability to do what it was intended to do.
i cant get behind any comment that doesnt think thralls are the best thing in that tome
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On 12/2/2018 at 12:41 AM, mrbedlam said:
Yes, if they don't have anyone close enough to pile in too then they aren't in combat anymore and don't get another combat round.
incorrect. you always get to pile in if you charge - regardless as to weather anyone is within 3.
if you didnt charge then yes, your stuck unless someone comes within 3 inches
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23 hours ago, PJetski said:
Astral Templars with the ballista core and 10+ Evocators (or 20 Sequitors) is probably the strongest Stormcast list overall right now. Given how many MONSTERs are in the meta, on average killing almost a big target (including big ones like Nagash and Rotigus) in one round of shooting with just the ballistas is a very powerful ability. Even when not shooting at MONSTERS you'll delete something every turn. Giving Evocators a free 6" move at the start of the game is also quite good, helping you get into the positions you need to drop your ballistas into play safely, take objectives, or get an early charge after buffing up in the hero phase.
Anvils w/ 9-12 Longstrikes is another really powerful list if you play it properly. There are some specific counters to it (Nighthaunt, long range spells, Skyfire spam) but you still have 1200-1400 points to spend after the Longstrikes to help build around specific meta counters, like adding 2+ Incantors for dispel scrolls or Aetherwings to stop melee armies, or some PRIESTS for Translocation to escape and/or get the right shooting angle. After two rounds of double shooting from 12 Longstrikes your opponent won't have enough left on the table to contest objectives.
I think most people haven't bothered experimenting outside of Gavriel lists because it's a fairly easy to play and highly effective against people that don't have a lot of experience playing against that kind of thing (ie. most people).
2 rounds of double shooting vs say..... deepkin...generally nets you a dead scryer and a squad of thralls or 2 🤷♂️
its not "easy" which also makes me pretty sure youve never even tried it before commenting, but its main draw is its reliable:
realm of shadow? 6 inch range for everything? dont care
character mission? got buckets
enemy casting? cps for charging to burn
etc
etc
etc
Vs the big lists it has tools and non of the horrendous bad match ups other sce lists have. Sure trees are a problem but not insurmountable and no where near as table chompingly frustrating as when you bring 12 raptors and cant shoot through the trees.
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Exactly - its just strong, not the new boogie man of aos2.
To ignore it as a bad list only good for noob bashing is to set yourself up for a fall . I enjoy the dabate of pros and cons, but to deny is even HAS any pros seems to fly in the face of all evidence of the contrary.
Not sure why this person has decided to die on this particular hill but id gladly debate it if their fingers were removed from ears and they stopped shouting "lalalalalalalalalalaa"
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1 minute ago, Gorsameth said:
Right, Watch game 4 of Chimbobo Twitch vod and see how the Gav list gets baited, charges and doesn't do enough and.... win a game they should entirely have lost because the objective bounces towards the Stormcast twice And a big unit gets brought back on a 5+ that just happens to be able to get on the objective while being outside 9".
Its basically a textbook on how the list loses to a good player except for BS mission rng.
Ahh. I think you should listen to ritches podcast
"bait" is something hwg said. Unfortunately an objective isn't a bait, it's the mission, ritchie played it very well to give me no choice but to engage on his terms. But I played to my outs.
again listen to the cast for the skinny rather than just repeat what you heard on the stream from people (good people , people I respect, but ultimately people who totally missed the nuance of what was happening )
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8 minutes ago, PJetski said:
You have chosen a poor way to accomplish that goal. I chose not to insult you, but it seems your ego did not allow the same courtesy.
If your tournament meta is stuck in 2016 where turn 1 deep strike charges are a viable tactic, then Gavriel seems to be a great choice. Good luck!
I just matched like for like dude. Your obviously very confident in your abilities, you just seem to have missed some core basics, which I was hoping to try debate you with....untill your "maybe my meta Is more cutthroat" comment
id very much like to play you, have a laugh and see what we could teach each other. It's just from your examples of in game reasoning of why xx is bad and xx is good , it just seems to me that you haven't been pushed by a competent player.
i may of course be wrong but I can only go by what you have cited
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Oh and for the record when shooting the screens and you get to one or 2 models left....you stop shooting it so make sure you still have a legal charge.
or you leave one model of your huge unit in 12 of a completely unrelated unit, again to keep a legal charge
i don't wish to sound insulting but your group doesn't sound cut throut. It seems instead populated by people with a lack of imagination when it comes to tactics.
anyway. I'll stop there.
got masters to prepare for 💁🏻♂️
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Well you can deepstrike. For a start you have a relictor or vexillor or both
as for your diagrams they are very one dimensional and over simplified . Unless of course you play of a 12 inch wide table 😂
It's pretty easily done if you know what your doing
try the linked podcast... listen to my dulcet tones
or watch either bobo steams where this "easily defeated" list tactic went undefeated (I'd suggest summer bobo preferably as I think jacks much more competent if for no other reason he's not drunk and/or hungover 😬)
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9 hours ago, PJetski said:
You can't declare charges unless you are within 12" of your target. If screened properly, you can completely deny a Gavriel charge.
Gavriel lists are not objectively bad but they're far from the best Stormcast list
This comment kinda optimizes how some people don't quiet get it
as stated. you only have to be in 12 inches of A model to declare a charge , your under no obligation to actually charge it if you roll more
with some ranged pew pew (judes, magic, heraldor) you can quiet easily make holes and charge through them
or stagger charge - where by 2+ units hit, the first wipes out the screen and then the second unit piles in putting to the gap putting you in range of what they were protecting. This is even easier with the 3 inch evo zaps
and before you say "just deploy even deeper then".... if people want to give up that much board control...then that can be just as detrimental than not screening at all
just cos gav lists can charge turn one, doesn't be mean they have to. They can quiet easily just turtle on objectives if the enemy deploys too far back, taking them out of the game
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On 11/27/2018 at 1:50 PM, PJetski said:
Gavriel lists are definitely not the only competitive list - they aren't even in the top 5 of what Stormcast can do right now. The problem with the turn 1 charge list is that it has to go all-in on that strategy, but that strategy is really easy to counter. All you have to do is put up a disposable screen around your good units, and then counterattack once he takes out your screen.
Astral Templars ballistas + evocators is probably the best SC list right now because it counters the big monster meta hard (you can kill nagash in one round of shooting!) but it can still deal with melee/horde armies because 10 Evocators backed by Rend-2 shooting solves almost any problem.
this is highly inaccurate in my opinion
this weekend i played very badly (mainly due to booze tbf) and played some amazing players and army and still came out on top
gav - lists have a lot of moving parts and it is tricky to keep your buffs in range - so it is tricky, but it IS powerful - to say it isnt even in the top 5 is inaccurate hyperbole
to write it off with a dismissive "just screen with chaff" is to completely miss the point of a decent well built alpha strike army....
"omg!!!! 10 skinks - what devilry is this? nooooooooooooooooooooo.... if only id pre thought about this new and outlandish tactic of screening....
.... oh wait i did"
pew pew
zzzap
charges 15 inches...
:/
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I'm curious to see people saying daughters of khaine is such a bad match up. I'm undefeated va dok with deepkin in tournies and casual at the moment. I actually think it's one of the few armies that give daughters some genuine problems
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my 20 seqs killed 2 morathis this weekend as a quick fyi
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Elaboration:
I came 4th at the Gt final with 30 sequitors (and the things you mention) missing out on 1st buy a run move, and they were by far and away the all stars at the tournament. To the point im going to drop some evocators for yet more sequitors.
As for lists that youve seen not run sequitors i am honestly a bit confused as that seems to be the default battleline of choice now in almost every storm cast army i see (a few exceptions)
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youd be suprised
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Its "Seqs Bomb" not "Gav Bomb"
hahahah
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which not to say leviadons are BAD... thier alright... just not a good as other choices. but on the right day leviadons can and have been in lists that finnish well in events (if that what your looking for)
if your playing for the crack then it doesn't mater what you take.
and if your playing on hard mode and want all the kudos points you take lotaan and reavers ?
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it's also a lot of points to sit on objectives in an edition where you don't actually have to sit on objectives at all. objevtives now are claimed and for the most part you can then move on and still hold the objectives. spending 500 plus points on something with not as many teeth just seems sub par
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16 hours ago, Drofnum said:
They have to be 6 inches away. A lot of the objectives are held by models within 6 so you can easily stay in the bubble, even the 3 inch ones are pretty easy to stay in the bubble.
As for enemies you just try to get them blocking the objective in some way. Honestly the rules didn't change much with how I played them, we all knew it was going to change with how every other placable scenery works.
they changed loads....far from "not much"
not being able to sit them on objectives or surround them on objectives or stack two close to gether to really make a board area basically impassable. while expected its deffo a big change.
on the plus side the other VERY big change is the fact that you get to place shipwrecks AFTER you know which deployment zone you have now and not before like previously. this has huge and massivly beneficial repercussions. before you had to hedge your bets a little,place them mid table (on objectives) or stack them one side and hope you won the deployment role.
with that uncertainty gone you can really ****** with enemy deployment or place them in hotspots that you know fights will break out
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aftet the faq the shipwrecks aren't allowed to be deployed anywhere near objectives
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AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion
in Order
Posted · Edited by wanderingrogue
not like that.
cities was a good book to make different lists - it was like having a hundred ingredients and trying to make your own unique meal - sure you could go with the easy "Over powered - salt and vinegar" (hallow heart) but you were given a sand pit to play and experiment with.....
ko is something akin to trying to pass a law exam while being flicked in the nuts - annoying to do and results in a pass/fail result only.
there will be good builds from the book but there is a very formulaic build path if that makes all the lists feel very samey unless your purposefully hamstringing yourself