Bellfree
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Posts posted by Bellfree
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4 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:
so what's a good SCE 2nd tier list?
Legions of Nagash.
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On 11/30/2018 at 2:30 PM, PJetski said:
Astral Templars with the ballista core and 10+ Evocators (or 20 Sequitors) is probably the strongest Stormcast list overall right now. Given how many MONSTERs are in the meta, on average killing almost a big target (including big ones like Nagash and Rotigus) in one round of shooting with just the ballistas is a very powerful ability. Even when not shooting at MONSTERS you'll delete something every turn. Giving Evocators a free 6" move at the start of the game is also quite good, helping you get into the positions you need to drop your ballistas into play safely, take objectives, or get an early charge after buffing up in the hero phase.
Anvils w/ 9-12 Longstrikes is another really powerful list if you play it properly. There are some specific counters to it (Nighthaunt, long range spells, Skyfire spam) but you still have 1200-1400 points to spend after the Longstrikes to help build around specific meta counters, like adding 2+ Incantors for dispel scrolls or Aetherwings to stop melee armies, or some PRIESTS for Translocation to escape and/or get the right shooting angle. After two rounds of double shooting from 12 Longstrikes your opponent won't have enough left on the table to contest objectives.
I think most people haven't bothered experimenting outside of Gavriel lists because it's a fairly easy to play and highly effective against people that don't have a lot of experience playing against that kind of thing (ie. most people).
The Astral Templars list loses to any of the meta lists that don't run big monsters or can nullify their to hit bonuses(you'll be hitting on 6s targeting a Khailebron Slaughter Cauldron, even with the Ordinator. Or spending 540 points to do 5 wounds to it.). Celestar Ballista barely do anything to DoK, and with how prevelant they are, that's a big problem. And Evocators on foot might as well not have a movement characteristic for how slow they are in the current meta. Using the extra 6" move on them is a 'double turn or lose RIGHT NOW' move. Putting either half of the list in the air, leaves the other half easy pickings. Even with several hundred points of screens. You'll win 4 out of 5 games and get blasted out first turn in 1.
The Anvils list you talked down just fine yourself. It's countered by an entire popular faction, a stock standard strategy for half the armies with wizards in the game, and any other shooting list. The best you can hope for is to blow 1200 points desperately trying to keep one unit alive for the three turns it'll take it to do anything of note. You'll win 4 out of 5 games and get blasted out first turn in 1.
The biggest thing to note here, is that these lists are all skew lists focused on exploiting less than 10% of the battletome in a bid to win specific matchups, at the cost of getting destroyed in certain matchups. All of our competitive list builds are just modern day Skryre Fyre simply because of how lopsided the battletome is.
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On 11/29/2018 at 4:58 PM, PJetski said:
Gatekeeper lists are not bad lists. They're called "gatekeepers" because they are good and popular enough that you can expect to face them. It's not a derogatory term.
Gatekeeper lists are called that just as often because they're stupid one-trick bullgak that obliterates those who haven't seen it before, but is basically worthless once you figure out the trick.
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6 minutes ago, HollowHills said:
So glad Imperial Fists get their own box, we definitely needed that. I mean I thought you could just paint the normal ones yellow but...
The imperial fist box is fine, it's the OTHER one that doesn't make any gorram sense. The ultramarines box has a way worse selection of models, including several that OVERLAP between the two boxes so no one in their right mind would ever buy both. They're completely pointless to release together.
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Just now, Aryann said:
Does somebody know how many points per box do we receive?
Completely random faction to faction. The DoK box can vary by 200+ points just based on how you build the units. The seraphon box even more so.
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27 minutes ago, Ithlinne said:
That DoK Box.... Start Collecting + 2 Khinerai + Melusai. Doesn't look that great
DoK don't have a start collecting. The blood coven box was 100$ and is out of print. Total retail is 275$ so assuming the standard 170$ for the box it's about a 40% discount.
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2 hours ago, Lucur said:
It's statistics. The Ordinator doesn't generate value outside the +1 to hit for the ballistae while he's hanging back, so you pay 140pts for that. The Azyros grants reroll 1s for evetybody, melee and ranged, and is more likely to get into melee (although he won't win a war...) and also has the MW bomb once a game. Thus the Azyros is considered universally more useful by himself anf the Ordinator generates value for three or more ballistae, otherwise more ballistae generate more shots (and wounds), assuming he won't get to melee or use his CA.
The Azyros is NOT considered "universally more useful" than the ordinator. There are situations where, and reason why, an Ordinator would be more valuable. The biggest one being that the ordinator will probably survive multiple turns whereas the Azyros probably won't considering the giant sparkly target that 10" range reroll aura puts over his head. If you're using multiple ballista and 1 unit or less of Judicators than the Ordinator getting 3-4 turns to buff will get you more than the azyros's 1. Oh, and you don't want either character in melee ever if you can avoid it so getting there more easily isn't much of a positive.
That said, I probably wouldn't take either unless I was running a full 4 ballista list(ordinator obvs) or an 'OTK' deepstrike list (Azyros).
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11 hours ago, Requizen said:
I don't think Gav with Evos is a one trick pony, but I think it will evolve into something else. Rather than being something you build the list around, it might be one element of it. For example:
Gavriel
Ordinator
Relictor
VexillorJudicators
Judicators
LiberatorsBallista
Ballista
BallistaEvocators x10
Evocators x5
Skinks
ProsecutorsWhile not an Optimized list, definitely something I've been fiddling with. Enough drops to put Evos, Ballistas, Ordi, and Gav in the sky. You can do things like drop in shooting units first to clear the screen and create a "Drop Zone" so to speak, or you can drop the Evos first to charge in and use the shooting to clear up, or leave Ballistas on the table to threaten fast enemies/Alpha Strikes, or leave the Evos down to counter charge and drop the Ballistas to backfield snipe... less all in on getting the melee unit through on turn 1, though if you can, it's still just as strong. Could potentially drop some Evos for more bodies, but like I said, work in progress.
The problem with building a list like this is the actually fairly high opportunity cost involved in bringing Gavriel at all. He's 100pts of useless once the +charge range is no longer valuable and he forces you to take hammers of sigmar as your stormhost which means he also costs you a relic(the HoS relic is so terrible it doesn't even count) and forces you to forgo a great command trait like staunch for an extremely mediocre one.
A list like the one you've built here could quite possibly be better off taking a better stormhost(or just the generic relics+CT) and taking just the reroll charges chance. Also, using the ballista to clear would be incredibly risky because you'd have to drop the ballista within 18 first and basically watch them die(you're not clearing anything with the 36" fire mode, even with the ordinator) and you'd be looking at the +charge range from Gav being canceled out by the distance lost by clearing their frontline.
The reason people commit to Gavriel when they take Gavriel is because of how little actual synergy he has with other strats. In this list, if you don't drop any of the ballista+evos what's left honestly isn't worth killing for your opponent so they'll just camp on objectives and force you into a bad deployment. If you drop the ballista first, you have to put yourself within striking distance to have any real chance at doing damage, which means you risk losing nearly a quarter of your list outright. If you drop the evos first they'll have to grind through any screens your opponent has and survive a counter before the supporting fire can come in to bail them out(unless you get a super lucky double turn), if you drop both the evos and the ballista at the same time, killing their chaff will just result in longer charges. If you full commit to the single turn hammer blow and drop the Ballista within 18 of their heavy hitters or buff characters and cut the head off of the hydra quickly, that could work but you're really trusting the heart of the cards there. By taking the Ballista you're essentially leaving the Evos out on an island praying that you can kill so much stuff in a single turn that your opponent doesn't notice that you have ZERO buffs for them. Even just unbinding them could see them permanently trapped against a wall of plaguebearers or skeletons if your dice are bad enough.
In a weird way, by splitting your focus you're putting EVEN MORE pressure on your Evos to do tons of damage.
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21 hours ago, Nizrah said:Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Knight-Azyros (100)
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
10 x Judicators (320)
- Skybolt Bows
- 2x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
2 x Fulminators (240)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129
Plan:
Anihhilate screen with Judi and Ballistas, then charge with 6+ gavriel. What do you think?There's not really any point in taking a unit of 10 judicators. It's inferior in just about every gameplay sense to two units of 5 ESPECIALLY in a hammers list(more vulnerable to morale, more vulnerable to being tied up in melee, less manuevreable, less flexible, can only cap one objective at a time, only 1 chance at the hammers summon instead of 2, only 1 prime, only counts as 1 for the ground vs sky deployment thing, more vulnerable to debuffs, only counts as 1 battleline unit, etc)
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On 9/27/2018 at 5:29 AM, XReN said:
This list will do against most non competetive opponents, but will get bullied by anything with decent shooting/mortal wounds output/melee monsters (like beastclaw), large numbers
Two main problems with your list are: it's fragile as hell and full melee. And those can work together, but not when it is the properties of whole army. Sure, try it if you have all the models, if not, I'd suggest dropping dracolines along with phalanx, getting cogs to take most of staff of focus with two spells, building up sequitors to maybe 20 man and getting 2x5 judicators, or 2x10 seq and 5 juds. Also lord castellant would be great.
Maybe smtg like that:
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Thundershock
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Lord-Exorcist (140)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade
- Spell: Lighntning Blast
Lord-Castellant (100)
Battleline
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
Units
5 x Evocators (200)
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Battalions
Grand Convocation (130)
Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
Here you have some shooting, improved defence due to lord castellant and cogs, remeber that you can use cogs with evocators to get them reroll of all save rolls as well as ability to double cast Empower if you want
Also check out Black Blade's thread on SCE magic for some ideas and experienceWhy hammers with no Gavriel? Their stormhost bonuses are pretty trash even compared to just generic Staunch defender+good relic(a 1/3 chance to get one of two units back if you're exceptionally lucky is pretty poor, the 6+ FNP isn't even as good as staunch with that many reroll saves, the +1 bravery is irrelevant and the relic is dog-excrement) let alone the better stormhosts.
You're also paying some REALLY heavy taxes to get +1 to cast on stormcast's actually fairly mediocre spells(essentially 270 points between the battalion cost and the lord exorcist.)
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23 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:
How would the following be competitive wise for a more full snakes list?
Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples
- Lore of Shadows: Steed of Shadows
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- Artefact: Thousand and One Dark Blessings
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
Hag queen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CP, at least 1 is mandatory in basically every DoK build. I also wouldn't run the Slaughter cauldron when it's not the general, the Hag cauldron is far more useful if you're not getting the CA.
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On 9/19/2018 at 4:46 PM, kenshin620 said:
This actually reminds me, has ANYONE ever ran the Shadow Hammer Compact? What a strange battalion that was.
At the old price it was the only thing that made Lifetakers scary. 50pts extra for no appreciable benefit to the list dumpstered it pretty good.
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16 hours ago, XReN said:
If it worked for you then fine, we all have serieses of great rolls, but I'm sticking to footsloging or Gav drop, because relible.
At the cost of burning 100pts for a character that is utterly worthless outside of the drops and a really, really subpar Stormhost. Gavriel may be more reliable than cogs/etc but in taking him you're committing to winning with the drop on the simple basis that you've invested 100pts, your heavy hitter unit(s), your stormhost, a CP, and your relic slot in guaranteeing one drop. You're also almost always forced to drop everything at once(if you don't bubblewrap Gavriel, he dies 100%. If you do bubble wrap Gavriel, no way are you going to get more units wholly within 12 AND in a decent position to charge.) and in the same general area. You're pigeonholing yourself into not only an INCREDIBLY predictable strategy but in a very one note build that people and armies will eventually figure out how to deal with the same way they figured out hammerstrike.
What using Cogs or w/e instead does is it trades a bit of reliability for flexibility and it also means that the army can be stronger outside of the one note 'BLAM FROM THE SKY, HOPE I WIN THIS TURN' strategy that gavriel lists tend to devolve into. Not being trapped using a largely useless stormhost(the one unit of sequitors that comes back every 3rd game on turn 4 or 5 isn't anything to write home about and the rest of the abilities are almost completely irrelevant even compared to the generic non-stormhosts ones.) is a massive benefit.
Yes, gavriel is far and away the most reliable way to get Sacrosanct units into combat turn 1, but let's not pretend that there aren't some pretty severe opportunity cost associated with packing a weak model into a weak stormhost for the sake of telegraphing exactly what your gameplan is to every person who gives your list even a casual once-over.
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On 9/6/2018 at 2:38 PM, Requizen said:
I... agree with some things in here, but man, this is 3.5 pages of wishlisting for an already powerful army. A lot of the changes are unnecessary and will just push Stormcast into a really hated position, if not make them busted altogether.
I'd be happy if they just reverted the Dracoth nerfs. Especially for the poor poor tempestors.
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On 9/5/2018 at 10:21 AM, CountryMou3e said:
2 extra wounds over judicators @160 points
double the amount of melee attacks
reroll ones or rend 2 (or always rend 2 with Azyros buff)
18” range has never been an issue if you deploy well.
Two extra wounds is massively inferior to 6" extra range. It's not even close.
The number of melee attacks these units make is totally irrelevant. They do so little in CQC that it's not even worth taking it into account.
Both units do roughly 2.2 wounds per turn to a 4+ save in shooting. Against night haunt, chaos daemons, and seraphon obviously castigators are better but you can't count on running into any of those.
Battleline makes judicators by far the superior choice in any situation where you're not already taking 3 battleline, at which point they're just probably the better choice.
18" range has always been an issue if you play a competent opponent with a decent army. 24" means it takes 2 turns to close down on you, 18" means it takes one. You COULD screen them, but Stormcast armies don't really have the bodies to spare and considering how little damage either unit actually does, it's pretty wasteful to screen either. In fact, in my experience you're just as likely to use judicators as a deepstrike screen as the other way around. Most games judicators serve as backline objective grabbers that offer consistent moderate ranged support. Castigators short range makes them subpar at this task.
Taking a huge unit of castigators doesn't really make sense, they'll likely only get one round of shooting off as they're simply too juicy of a target.
Taking a single 3 man unit of Castigators is decent but probably not as valuable as the command point you could get instead. Castigators are also directly competing with the Celestar ballista which not only out ranges them, but also out damages them AND has more effective wounds against shooting attacks while in cover. The crew of engineers even means they both have 3 bodies to cap objectives. I can still see taking Judicators due to them being battleline, but castigators are pretty clearly outclassed by the Celestar.
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10 hours ago, Black Blade said:
I love the Sacrosant from the Lore to the Rules but the points aren't where they should be, which feels weird because I still dont feel like they make Stormcast top of tier 1. I think it's more about internal balance is where its wrong. As it stands though point for point sacrosant bas better Liberators and Paladin equivalents. Only Judicators and Dracothian Guard seem to be left as the top units for their roles.
The way they handled to old stuff was really up and down tbh. Stardrake got a bit weaker but that was balanced out by (stupidly OP) realm relics. Celestant prime got a lot better, palladors are now at the price they should have started at(though probably still about 20pts too expensive) Nothing will save Vanguard Hunters but being general stormcast battleline. Longstrikes got a side-grade, Hurricane crossbows went sort of diagonal? They're cheaper but their anti-charge rule doesn't stack and is a bit harder to use, but affects multiple units. Gryph hounds and Aetherwings don't matter. Lord Celestant got worse for the same points. Castellant is EVEN MORE baller than he was, relictor got a deserved nerf. Veritant is still trash. Knight heraldor got a side grade. Vexillor got better but they still don't really know what to do with him. Azyros got a significant buff, Venator got slightly worse due to AoS 2 rules, not anything wrong with the model itself. Judicators are still solid, Liberators are totally overshadowed by sequitors, paladins got somewhat worse for the same points while ALSO being overshadowed by evocators. Neave got nerfed for no real reason, but not a whole lot. Prosecutors are largely the same.
Dracoths actually got hosed, but not in a way that effects their standard battlefield role much. Desolators got nerfed even though no one has ever even BUILT one. Concussors got about half of the point drop they needed, fulminators got a bit worse due to the new breath attack(though being 2+ reroll against shooting is still powerful) and Tempestors got ANNHILATED. They got a worse breath attack AND their 'to hit' penalty ability got made laughably terrible, all for the same points cost.
TL:DR every old unit either got powercreeped on, nerfed, or is named Stardrake, Lord Castellant, Knight Azyros, Lord Meatloaf or Judicators.
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On 8/18/2018 at 4:46 AM, Pestilens said:
Hello guys. I really wanna try this list to understand if comet + ballistas could help. What do u think??
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger(240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Lithe-limbed
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
Units
10 x Evocators (400)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129
I have also a big blob of supertanky sequitors and evocators to take obj and do some stuffs.
Drop the comet, it's really not doing anything for you and you're not really gonna have spells to waste casting it.
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22 hours ago, Apologetic Canadian said:
What's the consensus on Castigators and Palladors? I've seen a lot of talk on Sequitors and Evocators in lists, so I can already tell they have some powerful options - some write-ups on the others would help a new SCE player out a lot.
edit: I'd love someone forever if they could give a write-up on basic kits for units, to be completely honest. Unlike the Fyreslayers I gave to a friend for his SCE, I'm not used to having a few dozen selections in the book... I'm used to the same 90 naked dwarf models. The SCE units really have me scratching my head on what is good and what may be a trap for my wallet.
Castigators are sub-par in general, you can make , palladors are better than they were but still only 'good'.
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47 minutes ago, Richelieu said:
Yeah... I've been thinking of super strange lists (as I am wont to do) taking Sequitors to the max and anvils is in the calculus. Check this.
Stormhost: Anvils
Lord Arcanum on Foot, general (180)
Lord Castellant (100)
Lord Castellant (100)
20 Sequitors (400)
20 Sequitors (400)
20 Sequitors (400)
20 Sequitors (400)
Total (1980)
Wounds 178
Yes this is a Stormcast list with 178 wounds.
Now this is what I call a cleansing phalanx.
Bravery is going to be a ****** against anything that can counter punch the original hit, but otherwise this is right around what I thought the most competitive Stormcasts lists would be.
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3 hours ago, Lexalopolis said:
Has anyone tested out a longstrike list now that Anvils command ability has been FAQ'd to be reasonable? I was thinking 12 longstrikes in an Anvils army with celestial blades, bless weapons, and the Knight Azyros reroll hits of 1 would be pretty nasty, although probably not much fun to play against. Get lucky on the rolls and you'll deal a bunch of mortal wounds at 30", and even if you don't the base rend and damage will give most things a bad time.
It's okay, but honestly not that big of a deal. Anything with any kind of speed is going to close you down pretty quick and between the buff heroes and the unit you're looking at almost half of your army invested in one unit, not to mention all of your command points. The unit will do about 20 wounds per turn(slightly more with the azyros reroll) across both shots to a 4+ save. I think with all the knighthaunts and TPs bouncing around it'll be very risky.
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6 hours ago, Galamund said:
I want to get some opinions and start a conversation about Realm Rules in the context of SCE. My groups seem to be adopting a "we might as well try them" approach and we use them more often than not. My question is simple: which Realm have you found to be the LEAST impactful on your games? What I mean is, what Realm do you think has the minimal impact on the game in terms of imbalanced or swing-causing Realm characteristics. The idea being: if my opponent wishes to nominate a Realm, what one should I suggest so as to get at least a 50% of fighting in it?
As far as I'm concerned, it isn't Ulgu or Ghur, since reducing shooting to 18/12/6" is massive for Comet/Judicator/Longstrike using armies, and having the two beasts also to add huge variables to the game that are totally unpredictable. Some guys I play against have pretty wacky FW monsters. Shysh is also scary given how it helps Death armies disproportionately, and they're already really strong and I struggle with them a bit. That narrows it down to the remaining 6 (or 5 if you're as scared of Shysh as I am!)
What Realms have you guys had luck with SCE fighting in? Any cool tips or tricks about Realm rules in the context of running Stormcast?
If you use random realmscape features, they're all terrible. If you pick the realmscape and deliberately avoid things like "All shooting units are useless" and "Tried to play a cavalry/footslog list? Concede right now" and "Stupid random ****** falls out of the sky and just so happens to kill the guy you have standing on an objective so you lose!" and "I rolled a 6 during my double-turn's combat phase so pack up, you lose.", or even better don't use the realmscape features because they're really stupid, or even betterer don't use the realm rules at all because they're totally asinine, then that's pretty fair.
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11 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:
I'll be blunt.
RaW - the Blood Stalkers should get their ability.
There's nothing in the Designer's Commentary describing how to handle abilities that go off in different phases, and even if there were, the wording of the Command Ability seems to account for that quite clearly. I don't know what they were referring to.
It was very clearly spelled out in the old FAQ that these abilities do not go off in other phases, however when GW moved the FAQ over into the 'designer commentary' they didn't address this particular issue(as far as I could find).
RAW states they can, FAQ precedent states they can't. Typical GW incompetence says the world may never know for sure.
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13 hours ago, PJetski said:
Swords are almost always better than maces. They are better without buffs, any buffs to wound rolls (such as Empower or Celestial Blades) make the swords pull ahead even further.
Buffs to the number of attacks like Vandus Hammerhand or the Celestial Vindicators command traits might make the Maces better.
Keep in mind that the this ends up being such a small difference overall that there is a strong argument to be had that the wildly different monetary costs of the two setup be the determining factor.
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58 minutes ago, DanielFM said:
It's either Tempestors (cheap, shooty) or Fulminators for me. Concussors and Desolators aren't good enough even after the points drops.
Tempestors aren't really shooty...or cheap though. At 220pts I can't see them being more useful than concussors on a per point basis. I've used them for a long time(back when they had their nifty -1 to hit thing and a useful breath attack) and after a while it becomes a celebratory moment when the crossbows actually manage to land a wound. Concussors do 1 less wound on average(total across the unit) in shooting and do 4ish more wounds per turn in melee while also having decent mortal wound output.
The 5000+ Owners Club
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
Gonna be while before I can get any pics, but I have about 12k in stormcasts and a little over 5k in DoK.