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  1. Recently, in the Beasts of Chaos discussion thread, a post inquired about what opportunities arise when playing Beasts of Chaos battalions out of the various Chaos God allegiances. Rather than simply answer there, I figured it might be helpful to respond in a new thread. That way, we can hopefully grow the conversation in a way that is more accessible to both casual review and search attempts. Beasts of Chaos Allegiance Before getting to the four Chaos God allegiances, it might be helpful to note what a Beasts of Chaos player gives up when using those. The Beasts of Chaos allegiance itself is a collection of minor, albeit interesting benefits, each keyed to the main Beasts of Chaos factions: Brayherd, Warherd, and Thunderscorn. Note that the Beasts of Chaos' menagerie of monsters (cockatrice, jabberslythe, chimera, etc.) get nothing from the allegiance's battle traits, little from the currently available Greatfrays, and only slight buffs from the allegiance's spell lores (the "Titanic Fury" spell notwithstanding). Nor are these monsters involved in the four Chaos God battalions. The focus of comparison thus centers on how Brayherd, Warherd, and Thunderscorn play differently in each setting. Only Beasts of Chaos allegiance armies get to ambush, only Beasts of Chaos allegiance armies get the Herdstone and its related Primordial Call mechanic, and (perhaps most significantly) only Beasts of Chaos allegiance armies get to use Bestigors, Bullgors, and Dragon Ogors as Battleline if the general is either Brayherd, Warherd, or Thunderscorn. I think the latter point is probably the biggest factor in allegiance selection. Having the option to forego Gors or Ungors, in favor of more elite forces, is attractive. With the recent price discount of Warherd units in the December FAQ, fielding an exclusively elite unit Beasts of Chaos army is more accessible. It is also helpful to note that the Beasts of Chaos allegiance can field a surprising amount of high Rend. The Herdstone itself creates an ever-increasing Rend effect. Further options include: fielding Warherd with Great Axes, the Brayherd spell "Tendrils of Atrophy," the Thunderscorn spell "Sundering Blades," and several artefacts. In fact, not many armies can have two Heroes with -3 Rend, which a Beasts of Chaos allegiance army can do by fielding two Dragon Ogor Shaggoths (one with an “Ancestral Azyrite Blade” and one with either Chamon’s “Rune Blade” or Ulgu’s “Dimensional Blade”). Much is said elsewhere about ambushing and summoning. Brayherd units often contribute the most to these two features. Beyond the Brayherd, the Beasts of Chaos allegiance's capacity to make Thunderscorn run and charge (via the artefact “Horn of the Tempest”), along with the Creatures of the Storm battle trait, results in Thunderscorn being one of the game’s faster heavy cavalry choices when used in this allegiance. The Warherd’s Bloodgorge battle trait is somewhat underappreciated, too. By the way, while earlier conventional wisdom seemed to recommend fielding Bullgors and Dragon Ogors in MSU, I think running units of six alongside their respective Hero option is the way to go. Bullgors benefit from having a Doombull nearby, not just for Slaughterer’s Call, but also for Inspiring Presence. Dragon Ogors are strong with the ability to re-roll ones when near a Dragon Ogor Shaggoth. Such seems applicable to all the possible allegiance options. Khorne Allegiance The biggest benefit to running a Brass Despoilers-heavy army out of the Blades of Khorne seems to be Khorne’s capacity to give units additional attacks. The Bloodsecrator (especially when buffed by the Gore Pilgrims battalion) and Wrathmongers make this possible. Both Bestigors and Warherd are the strongest recipients of this resource. Large units of Bestigors, if their charges maximize frontage, can produce a startling amount of -1 Rend attacks. When fully buffed, Tuskgor Chariots can also be surprisingly good in Khorne. Warherd probably gain the most, though, complementing their already high Rend and the battalion’s re-roll benefits. A solid unit of Bullgors in Khorne can put out a lot of damage. In range of both the Bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers, a fully-engaged unit of six with unit leader has 25 attacks at a stat line of 4+ re-roll 1s/3+/-2/3. A Ghorgon is particularly nasty in Khorne when fully buffed, with three potential Huge Slavering Maw attacks. Remember that the Wrathmongers’ buff helps the Cygor’s missile attack, too. Tzeentch Allegiance Warherd are going to come up several times in these discussions, because several Chaos God allegiances provide ways to address the Warherd’s weaknesses. Those weaknesses include few attacks, average accuracy, and no innate ability to run and charge. Khorne addressed the first by doubling, when fully buffed, a Bullgor’s attack output. Tzeentch addresses the accuracy issue. Destiny Dice can help ensure the Bullgors hit their targets. Even better, note that the new Tzeentch book explicitly states that Destiny Dice count as unmodified dice. This means that when used by Warherd to score 6s for their to Wound rolls, Destiny Dice activate Bloodgreed/Ravenous Bloodgreed. A Fatemaster’s innate command ability is arguably a better buff for Warherd than the Doombull’s. Also of note is the Hosts Duplicitous Change Coven: an armywide buff that prohibits enemies from retreating seems helpful in a Warherd-heavy army. Lastly, successful completion of agendas can result in different Warherd units that increase considerably in potency as a game progresses. Nurgle Allegiance Once more, Warherd benefit arguably the most in Nurgle, gaining increased maneuverability thanks to both the Great Unclean One’s “Doomsday Bell” and the Feculent Gnarlmaw’s run and charge buff. When combined with a maximized run, a Ghorgon can reliably move 17” on its first turn, making first turn charges a real possibility. This is without factoring in an additional 2” movement bonus from the Cycle of Corruption, and also without further speed buffs from endless spells. Effective management of the Cycle of Corruption is a key to getting the most out of a Pestilent Throng in a Nurgle allegiance army. Its wizards gain access to the “Foul Regenesis” spell, just like all Nurgle wizards in a Nurgle allegiance army. If cast successfully, pick the bonus needed at the moment, with an eye to the next turn, too. An armywide +1 to Wound is helpful, especially for those units like Bestigors and Warherd that are already at 3+ to Wound. Alternatively, if defense is needed, the capacity to neuter opposing forces’ exploding 6s might be more useful in some circumstances. Healing should not be ignored; remember, the Great Unclean One’s innate spell also heals Nurgle units, which include a Pestilent Throng’s multiple wound Warherd, Thunderscorn, and even the Brayherd’s Centigors. Centigors (and, to perhaps a lesser degree, Bestigors) in a Nurgle allegiance army have a particular combination available to them when buffed by a Rotbringer Sorcerer’s “Blades of Putrefaction” spell. These Brayherd units both have an innate capacity to gain +1 to Hit (Bestigors is dependent on opposing units). That bonus means that the additional mortal wounds made possible by “Blades of Putrefaction” trigger on 5+ to Hit rolls, rather just 6+. With the amount of attacks Centigors and Bestigors inflict, such results in a high likelihood of many mortal wounds prior to damage from the attacks themselves. The speed at which “Blades of Putrefaction”-buffed Centigors and/or Bestigors can move, combined with Warherd units’ own improved movement, results in a Pestilent Throng that can reliably charge a surprising amount of elite units on the first turn. Slaanesh Allegiance Thunderscorn gain arguably the most from Euphoric Killers, given innate amount of attacks available in a given space, with both Warherd and Bestigors also significantly benefiting from that armywide buff. A Dragon Ogor Shaggoth also has an innate healing option which, combined with its high wound count, can result in many Depravity Points becoming available over the course of a game. Additional benefits for a Depraved Drove in a Slaanesh allegiance army likely depend on the Host chosen at army creation. A Godseekers list amps up units’ already above average speed. A Pretenders list allows Gors to both re-roll 1s to Hit and have a melee 4+ save, making a 30 block unit of Gors a cost effective buy at 200 points each. Further, a Pretenders list can run a Doombull with both the “Hunter of Godbeasts” command trait and the “Sliverslash” artefact, resulting in a Hero that: (1) re-rolls charges against an opposing Hero Monster with an artefact (many armies have these), (2) attacks five times at 3+/3+/-2/4, re-rolling to Hit rolls, (3) inflicts additional mortal wounds on unmodified to Wound rolls of 6, and (4) rolls additional attacks from Bullgor Horns. An Invaders list might slightly edge out a Pretenders list as the most efficient option for a Depraved Drove. While its outright potential damage output might be somewhat less, the additional range for command ability like Inspiring Presence is very attractive for units with average Bravery. Also, the “Best of the Best” command trait complements the Depraved Drove benefit, especially for a Thunderscorn Hero. When fighting an opposing Hero that has an artefact, a Dragon Ogor Shaggoth general, armed with a Rune Blade or Dimensional Blade, will attack three times at 3+/3+/-3/3, re-rolling to Hit and to Wound, plus other melee attacks. That is a strong Hero killer. Closing Thoughts Beasts of Chaos is a fun range of units to play in and of themselves, before even considering which allegiance one finds most fun. At times, I have explored all five options; each has an appeal that might surprisingly compel my interest for a time before I move on to a different build. I recommend eventually trying them all, but for beginners, especially those without much experience with Beasts of Chaos units, I think starting with the Beasts of Chaos allegiance is the best bet. Learn the basics of what the Brayherd, Warherd, and Thunderscorn do well and what they do not do well. Get a sense for their capacity for speed relative to other armies, as well as how their respective innate buffs complement each unit. If there is an aspect to the Beasts of Chaos range that you discover you particularly enjoy (high Rend capability, high speed, etc.), then explore the Chaos God allegiance that most accentuates that facet. Have fun! I hope the above is helpful and look forward to the conversation. Happy wargaming!
  2. Recently I've been trying to chase the meta with a Stormcast Evocators list, before that I had mixed order filth and a variety of other attempts at top tier lists. To little success, and even less enjoyment. In an attempt to bring myself more hobby joy I scoured the battletomes, spent hours on Warscroll Builder and Azyr. Finally came across the Thunderscorn in Beasts of Chaos and their Warscroll batallion. Going back about 15 years or so I used to have a couple of metal shaggoth and 6 metal dogres in my old Beastmen army and they were and are some of my favourite models and background in Warhammer. Eventually decided upon the list attached, and today a big pile of boxes arrived, (attachment 2) along with 30 square bases. So I've now ordered 30 ovals from GW along with a bunch of basing material. I plan to have the army ready for BOBO in May. So three months or so to build and paint 30 models. And a herdstone. And options for primordial call points expenditure. Should be doable I hope. I was also inspired to write a wee bit of fluff at work the other day, which I will flesh out over time. (3rd attachment) First proper update likely to be shaggoths.
  3. Hey all, I am going to rebase my three dragon ogors from their 50x75 rectangles to round or oval. What size do you think I should use? I looked in the guide in the AoS discussion forum, but there was nothing listed.
  4. Hi all I'm thinking of doing a slow grow Thunderscorn list anyone know of any good tips/tactics threads at all?
  5. Im asking the communities help on something... does anyone happen to own a new plastic Dragon Ogor (preferably on oval base) and the Starter set Khorgorath? could you post a photo side by side or provide some details on if the bases are same or how is the height of each? I ask because I really love the Dragon Ogor models and dont care for their fluff. I also hate the look of the khorgorath and like the concept and rules as it fits into Blades of Khorne. Id like to convert the Ogors with Whips and arm blades and count them as Khorgorath. Thanks!
  6. Hey folks! So generally my chaos armies have been slaves to darkness with some Tzeentch mortals thrown in. Though recently I've been wanting to steer a bit more toward the archaon follower side and be able to really have some fun with mixing and matching things. I also quite like the thunderscorn dragon ogres so being able to include them in some lists would be great I like to change my lists around each time I play them for some fun but generally my main core will be Slaves to Darkness. My current ones are painted blue and silver though I do worry that will be seen a bit too tzeentch and as such may not fit too well for the undivided theme. As such I may repaint them to black using the really nice dark reaper over the top of that for highlights (and possibly thunderhawk blue for some bright edging details) Regardless I'd love to know good units from other gods I can chuck in and work well as I'd love to have lists featuring 2 or more god units within it. Usually I find my StD do really well defensively and units like Tzaangors I love for bringing a bit of punch with their flurry of attacks. I'm thinking demonettes could be great for getting some rend around and I've heard blightkings are a good nurgle unit that can fit into lists super easy. Khorne wise I've got the stuff from the AoS starters set so figured the khorgorath might prove nice to throw in for a mini monster or some blood reavers as a nice cheap objective holding unit (though they work so much better with a totem hero). I also have some good tzeentch casters such as the ogroid, curseling and gaunt summoner. So basically I'd love to know what sort of units folks think can work well either with StD synergies or without needing too many points sunk into synergies and the like. I have a warshrine which I can easily set to a mark or use as undivided to give abilities to everyone and I've also got sayl to teleport some knights or warriors around. I prefer mortals but I'm fine with adding some demons in (though not too big a fan of bloodletters or horrors really) Also I'd likely be looking at using the grand alliance allegiance with this (though the nice thing with primarily StD is being able to do any god allegiance for any games)
  7. These guys have been "temporarily out of stock" for quite some time and even before they were; my FLGS couldn't order them. I've been assuming that dragon ogres will be letf in the Old World. They have not really been left though. 2 units with a metal hero does not make much of a faction, but Thunderscorn are still around after most of the metal models became OOP though. Also their IP is unique AFAIK and people seem to think that they are cool. Does anyone see these things making a comeback as a small subfaction (new shaggoth would be amazing)? If so, with what fluff? Or do you think they are just being left to fade away?
  8. I'm wondering how a pure Thunderscorn list might fare in competitive games. It's low model count but would probably cost around £300 to put together. The list is simply 4 shaggoths and 24 dragon ogres in units of 3, with the more smashy draconic crushers. The reason I like the list is that the shaggoth's Beneath the Tempest ability potentially causes your entire army to heal on a tied priority roll. If I'm reading it correctly it'd play as 'Roll a dice shaggoth for each unit of dragon ogres' so each unit might heal 4 D3 wounds, assuming all of the shaggoths were still on the table. It obviously wouldn't heal dead models, but you could guarantee the minis on the table would be on full health after it happened. What do you think?
  9. Close up of Dragon Ogor
  10. Brunel.Richard

    DragonOgors1.jpg

    My Dragon Ogors, The Ancient Ones.
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