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  1. The origins of this post relate to my personnal experience as a player... but this time not only as a Warhammer Underworlds player ! So why this post ? If we players very often discuss playstyles and deckbuilding, I find that we more rarely approach purely strategic issues... Maybe because it's much more complex to express. I have to admit I feel this difficulty myself... If we players very often discuss playstyles and deckbuilding, I find that we more rarely approach purely strategic issues... Maybe because it's much more difficult to express. Of course, in many ways, Go game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)) can be seen as the perfect opposite of Warhammer Underwolds, which is much more similar to Chess - in terms of scale (for both space and time) or of basic mechanics. However, because Warhammer Underworlds is also some kind of spatial / territorial game, I believe that there are several concepts (at least 5) coming from Go that can be useful for us. As a long-time Go player I use them in almost all of my Warhammer Underworlds games (I mainly play Aggro Chosen Axes), not least to look at them with fresh eyes... So let's therefore examine them ! 01/ Shape In the Go lexicon : Shape is the configuration of stones in their flexibility and efficiency at staying connected, forming eyes, and maintaining liberties. Stones are said to have good shape if they are efficient and flexible, or bad shape if they are inefficient. Even if Warhammer Underworlds fighters are not equivalent to Go stones, shape is something I really care about. Firstly while setting-up, looking at boards, objectives and fighters placement, and then during the 3 Rounds, I wonder : objectives-oriented considerations aside, how does my warband look like ? Can she be described as a unique formation or is it more complex ? Where is its core ? Where are its main weapons ? Where are it's main defects ? This kind of questions we keep asking and answering ourselves all the time, and most of the time without realizing it... For our warband and for our opponent's. Of course, such a concept is less relevant at the end of the game, when most of our fighters are out of action... 02/ Sabaki In the Go lexicon : Sabaki (捌き) is the development of a flexible, efficient position that is difficult for the opponent to attack, often by means of contact plays and sacrifice. Sabaki can be seen as the main quality of a good shape. So here the questions would rather be : How great is the threat range of my formation(s) ? Can I improve it in my next activation or using push-ploys ? Won't I spoil it if I chose to do this risky charge ? How many of my fighters can answer the threat I sense my opponent is about to launch at me ? How many supports can be easily mobilized ? What if I lose this mini at the center of my formation ? Here, we can also talk about our opponent's morale, with questions such as : How impressive is my current position ? How strong does it look ? For Chosen Axes, for instance, Sabaki is of major importance, mainly because your fighters are so slow... And also because unlike Mollog*, you often want to look bigger than you really are... *Who is bigger. Period. 03/ Korigatachi In the Go lexicon : Korigatachi (凝り形) is often translated as 'over-concentrated', but more literally is 'frozen shape'. If a player uses his stones in an inefficient way, the result will be korigatachi. Knowing something about this problem should tell you how to avoid it. Placing stones too close together is a fundamental mistake, rather than safe play. Here, it's all about finding the balance between short and long distance within your formation(s), between your minis mutual support (which requieres them to rather near from each other) and board covering (to interfere with your opponent's plans, and of course to achieve yours...). This concept is very important, also because it's directely linked to the next : 04/ Sente In the Go lexicon : A move that overwhelmingly compels a player into a particular follow-up move is said to have "sente" (先手), or "initiative"; the opponent has "gote" (後手). In most games, the player who maintains sente most of the time will win. Gote means "succeeding move" (lit: "after hand"), the opposite of sente, meaning "preceding move" (lit: "before hand"). Sente denotes which player has the initiative in the game, and which moves result in taking and holding the initiative. More precisely, as one player attacks in sente, the other defends in gote, it can be said that they respectively do and do not have the initiative. The situation of having sente is favorable, permitting control of the flow of the game. Applying these concepts to a whole sequence is basic to higher strategy. If Black starts a sequence that properly ends in an even number of plays, Black retains sente in doing this. If Black starts a sequence that properly ends after an odd number of plays, Black loses sente and takes gote. Accepting gote should only be in return for some profitable exchange. A player has sente if he does not currently need to respond to moves made by his opponent. This can be achieved by tenuki (ignoring the opponent), as a kind of gambit. A player can break out of gote, and gain sente by choosing to accept some future loss on the local level, in order to take the initiative to play elsewhere. In the case that neither player directly responds to the other's moves, the game can become difficult to analyze. Though each player has gote on entering the turn, the move itself is sente. Such games often end in large exchanges, or one player will be shown to have a weaker position and eventually have to answer to avoid heavy damage. When we talk about one of our games, we often specify which player dictated its pace. Sente is (almost) simply this : initiative. When I think about sente in-game, most of the time, it leads me to very simple questions such as : Who has it now ? If it's me, how can I keep it ? Otherwise, how can I steal initiative from my opponent ? And, of course : do I need to answer my opponent's move or can I ignore it ? Here, I'd like to say that I was very happy to have the opportunity to speak about initiative, because as we all know, with their stubby legs, Chosen Axes do not often have it... 05/ Kiai In the Go lexicon : In the context of Go, kiai (気合い) often translates as "fighting spirit", i.e. aggressiveness or initiative, but not unthinking greed. Kiai means keeping sente, that is not letting the opponent have his or her way. A sensei might say, "You play too passively — put some kiai in your moves!” A passive player may follow an opponent around the board responding to each move in turn. Kiai moves are the opposite of passive or submissive and a player showing kiai will dictate the flow of play. Kiai moves can catch an opponent off-balance and turn the game around. Examples of kiai moves include snatching sente away from the opponent; defending with a move that also counter-attacks; or answering a kikashi (forcing move) in an unexpected way. Kiai is also a term used in Japanese martial arts, usually as a name for a loud yell accompanying an attack. Obviously this is outwardly more restrained in the context of a board game, but it is intended to be in the same spirit. Morale again. So important in Warhammer Underworlds. The game is short and brutal, so you have to be prepared for anything. And when this anything happens, when this very nice lethal strike you made ON Mollog is countered by Rebound (!), you have to keep your fighting spirit... But at the same time, don't be misleaded by your own agressiveness. in particular, learn when to make strong and calm moves, as very often, those are very hard to counter... So... Any Warhammer Underworlds player also playing Go ?
  2. Hi, I am wondering if a card like Khorne's Chosen would be playable. The objective card let's you score 8 glory points, if you are the only surviving fighter on the field. This would mean that you have to kill all your opponent warband + all your own fighters of the Magore Warband. I created a deck around this card. https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,183,180,178,176,N373,277,271,N340,N308,L13,L28,N353,424,384,433,L48,389,408,N486,N488,194,N529,330,L37,343,N420,339,L32,L33,327,348,354 What do you think? Would this be a valid strategy? P
  3. EDIT: This post has been revised to include other builds posted by community members(thanks for the input!), and has had formatting fixed for readability) With the Las Vegas Open being just under two weeks ago, I thought I'd start a little thread for people going to help them prepare. Sometimes a player loses a game simply because they were not fully aware of what an opponents army does. So, with that in mind, here a few that I can think of, and what you can do help your games against them! Please feel free to reply to this thread with things of your own, as I think it would be cool to build a list of both popular and less popular powerful builds succinctly. Changehost: Murderhost: Vanguard Wing: Kharadron Overlords Dropship: Fyreslayers:(courtesy of @Andreas) Thunderquake Starhost(courtesy of @PJetski and @Space Lizard) Kunnin' Rukk Sylvaneth(courtesy of @Rimio) Aetherstrike Force(courtesy of @PJetski) Lord Ordinator-buffed Artillery Plaguetouched Warband Plague Drones:
  4. Hey all, so I’m trying to build a competitive death list, specifically LOS. With my limited experience with death I’ve come up with a couple of lists, I’d really appreciate some feed back, any changes to make, which list would be better, etc. Though for the sake of discussion is also like to read the lists you have been most successful with, whether it being your local meta or bigger tournaments. Strategies and battle reports are always welcome As for my lists; I am more partial to the first list, I feel it has better board presence (threats, not just chaff) and allows for some strategic flexibility, but have play tested lords of sacrament a little and the bonus to casting did go a long way. so, with the wealth of experience here, what are your thoughts? List one: Allegiance: Legion of SacramentLeadersArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)Necromancer (110)Necromancer (110)Prince Vhordrai (480)Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)Battleline5 x Dire Wolves (60)5 x Dire Wolves (60)40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Spears.Units20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)Endless SpellsGeminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Total: 1980 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 122 List two: Allegiance: Legion of SacramentLeadersArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)Necromancer (110)Necromancer (110)Prince Vhordrai (480)Battleline15 x Dire Wolves (180)10 x Dire Wolves (120)40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient BladesBehemothsMortis Engine (180)BattalionsLords of Sacrament (130)Endless SpellsGeminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Total: 1950 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 137 Cheers all, looking forward to reading your advice, lists and stories.
  5. So my friend that I am going to play a matched play game with soon uses stormcast eternals (more importantly knight-venator) because he always tries to pick the strongest good guy faction out there. Stormcast Eternals are obviously the single strongest army currently and having a super cheap hero that can attack across the whole map with dead accurate attacks is a huge problem for a nurgle army. What could I possibly play to beat him? Other than Celestant Prime and a few other units, knight-venator is one of the best units in the game and costs next to nothing to play. Any strategy to take out 1-5 of these guys?
  6. An important part of improving play is constantly working and innoavting your list, changing it as you learn new things about your army. This post is taking a look at the force I personally ran for the majority of the NZ AOS 2017 tournaments, and an overview of how it went. Here's the list. Allegiance: Skaven Pestilens Leaders Plague Furnace (200) Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80) Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80) Battleline 30 x Plague Monks (210) - Foetid Blades - Pestilens Battleline 30 x Plague Monks (210) - Foetid Blades - Pestilens Battleline 10 x Plague Monks (70) - Foetid Blades - Pestilens Battleline 30 x Plaguebearers Of Nurgle (270) War Machines Plagueclaw (180) Plagueclaw (180) Plagueclaw (180) Battalions Congregation of Filth (140) Foulrain Congregation (200) Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 140 Not a terrible list, but looking back with a bit more experience this list needs a lot of improvement to be competitive. Two big errors that are immediately apparent to me now are clear, the first is the fact that Clan Pestilens is a horde army but I only have 70 rats here, and the second is the fact that I'm spending 720pts on a catapult formation that over the course of the tournament would on average only ever kill cheap battleline chaff. Furthermore, the prayers on the Plague Furnace are absolutely vital if you want to run Plague Monks in units of 30 or more, so you shoul take at least one Plague Furnace per unit of 30+, something I haven't done here. The plaguebearers are nice, but this is an agressive army and any point spent towards defensive takes away from the overall army strategy. The last tournament this list was used was NZ Inpeticon in October last year. I went 3 Major Voctories 2 Major Defeats, which isn't a bad result at all. However to learn we look to our defeats, not our victories. I faced a moderately elite, multi wound destruction army that I absolutely should have run over the top of, but lost due to persuing character kills and not reaching objectives fast enough. While hindsight is 20/20, i recognize the mistakes I made here and won't be making them again. My second loss however was against Sylvaneth, a good friend of mine called Lee who I regularly practise against. I went into this game fresh with a jumble of different skaven strats tumbling about in my head raring to go but Lee manipulated the table extremely well, locking me off from sections and forcing me to funnel my rats into a killbox where his Kurnoth Scythes were waiting. This game was straight up murder, I don't think there was any stage where I had a viable method of pulling it back into my favor. Sylvaneth are often a problem for rats, especially when the Sylvaneth player is experienced. I'll get ya next time Lee. Soon I'll post my list for the NZ Masters tournament last month, and go over the results had there.
  7. hey im new to playing as savage orruks just after some strategy and tips on how to use them, also would like to know what weapons people have in a 30 unit savage orrukk unit i was thinking 15 chompas and 15 stikkas
  8. With our North Island Gaming Convention just around the corner, it is time to make the hard choices about what to bring in order to sow death and reap souls in the name of the Great Necromancer. Here are my thoughts about what I'm bringing, what my overall strategies will be, and how I arrived to those decisions. NICON Army Composition At NICON we will be using the SCGT players pack, with the exceptions that we are allowing all legacy warscrolls, and that the pool choice restrictions are 120 for the army and 80 for the deployed warband. Starting Point My collection started with the Deathrattle faction. I love the models, and the Dark Lord of Despair has been leading my forces through our local escalation campaign. I had the following models: Wight King (Black Axe) - 3 Wight King (Infernal Standard) - 3 Necromancer - 4 20 Skeletons (Spears) - 8 20 Skeletons (Swords) - 8 10 Grave Guard (Great Blades) - 8 5 Black Knights - 5 I really love the synergies with these warscrolls. the Lord of Bones command ability (+1 to all attacks) and Vanhel's Danse Macabre (an extra pile-in) has proven very effective on my Grave Guard, and on occasion, Black Knights. My original plan was to add the Legion of Death warscroll battalion, and so started painting up another 20 Skeletons and 5 Grave Guard. I have the Nagash model, but felt he would be a bit too over-the-top for this tournament. I didn't want to put off anyone new to the game or the hobby, but I also didn't want to turn up and lose 6 games. So I selected his lieutenant, Arkhan the Black - one of my all time favourite characters, to lead in his stead. I also added other models from my collection in order to help fill out the points: Arkhan the Black - 18 2 Morghast Archai - 10 3 Spirit Hosts - 5 I'd love to get more Spirit Hosts. Those things are great value. So the plan at this point was to deploy the Legion of Death battalion, and then summon the Archai, Spirit hosts and some more Grave Guard. But then something happened. The Monstrous Arcanum warscrolls came out. Enter, the Mourngul. The Lure of Power The SCGT boys brought out a pool cost for this bad boy a week before the pool choice lock for NICON, so I was able to include the Mounrgul in my list. This would give my army some much needed punch, and also help with taking and holding objectives. But how best to fit him in? He is 18 points (exactly what my group predicted it would be), but by including him in my summoning pool I could halve this. The downside is that the Mourngul requires a casting roll of 10 to cast. Arkhan gets +2 to cast by default. When summoning, he gets an extra +1. With the Morghast Archai nearby, he gets another +1. I happened to have a Mortis Engine still on the sprue from one of the starter boxes. With it, I can give Arkhan a sweet + 5 to cast (before any terrain bonuses), making the Mourngul summon much more reliable. So I put the Mortis Engine together in an evening, and with 3 weeks left to go, set about painting it and the Mourngul. These new acquisitions meant I have to forgo the extra skeletons and Grave Guard, and not take the Legion of Death battalion. But I feel much better having including them. Mourngul - 18 Mortis Engine - 7 This left me with 2 pool choices left over. Luckily there is a 2 point option in the Death Grand alliance - the Cairn Wraith. Time to pick one up. The plan is to have it hang back behind the Grave Guard or Skeletons, smacking up big units with it's 2" range. The Summoning Pool I plan to keep the Morghast Archai and the Mourngul in the summoning pool. In scenarios and against opponents where I have to be attacking, I will use Arkhan as the general, his First of the Mortarchs command ability extending the range of his spells. I would summing both the Archai and Mourngul in the same turn if possible. This will place my hardest-hitting hammer where I need them in order to assault objectives. Arkhan can then sit back and try to get as many Curse of Years spells off as he can, adding Vanhel's or Mystic Shield along with the Necromancer as needed. The Leadership Conundrum Using First of the Mortarchs means passing up Lord of Bones, which has until now been a very successful ability. I guess it will come down to the situation need for it. I know for example there will be a Khorne Daemon army and a Khorne Bloodbound army at NICON, and they will be moving towards me as fast as possible, meaning Arkhan's extra range will be less important. In this case Lord of Bones could be the better option. Will have to take that on a game-by-game basis. Final List So that's the plan. I will be taking the Black Knights with me, but in all likelihood I will not be deploying them unless the extra mobility is absolutely crucial in the right circumstances - perhaps to help achieve the Breakthrough Hidden Agenda. Deployed Warband Arkhan the Black - 18 Wight King (Black Axe) - 3 Wight King (Infernal Standard) - 3 Necromancer - 4 Cairn Wraith - 2 Mortis Engine - 7 3 Spirit Hosts - 5 20 Skeletons (Spears) - 8 20 Skeletons (Swords) - 8 10 Grave Guard (Great Blades) - 8 TOTAL = 66 Summoning Pool 2 Morghast Archai - 10 Moungul - 18 TOTAL = 28
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