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1 @Fisher KIng 's Duardin Battlemage 2 @flemingmma 's Vampire Lord 3 @AthlorianStoners 's Necromancer 4 @Mayple 's Verminlord 5 @flemingmma's Sorcerer Lord 6 @flemingmma 's Nighthaunt Necromancer 7 @flemingmma's Great Bray Shaman 8 @obaobaboss 's Ogor Butcher
It seems that there is general agreement out there that there is some possibility for some really nice mixed order lists even though Order players seem much more likely to stick to more specific allegiances. Sylvaneth players will know that one of our lovely battalions allows you to take any order wizard without losing our allegiance, but that's a fair bit of choice! I thought this would be a good opportunity to do a write up on the order wizards to start a conversation about their utility in either a Sylvaneth Gnarlroot list, or in a general mixed order list. I've written out a quick summary of each order wizard, and put them into tiers with the help of @scrubyandwells. We were approaching this from a Sylvaneth perspective, but I don't think the tiers will be too far off in a mixed Order list anyways. The tier positions are obviously all relative, we compared wizards to other order wizards, and other Sylvaneth units that you might get for the same points cost. For instance, the Battlemage on Griffin isn't that bad (and might be more of a tier two for general order lists), but at 280 points he is very close to a Treelord Ancient in points cost so we both felt unlikely to take him. If you were in a mixed order list though perhaps the Ancients utility of summoning woods and etc might be less useful, depending on how many Syvaneth troops you had. Likewise, many wizards were placed low on the tier list because they have only specific allegiance abilities that won't be useful in a Sylvaneth or mainly mixed list. Obviously though if you are using multiple units from a narrow allegiance, those wizards might be worth taking. Lastly, Sylvaneth as an army is fantastic, but there aren't many opportunities to buff and debuff units and therefore wizards with these abilities were ranked more highly than they might have otherwise. I've split the tiers into two lists, the normal AoS warscrolls and the Compendium Warscrolls. Realistically, the only wizards we found interesting in the compendium were Teclis and the old Alarielle the Radiant, which would both place in tier one against the normal AoS wizards. For now I still need to add the write up for the Compendium tiers, this one took forever to format and it's still wacky and changes font and font size despite my best efforts. I also will add Sylvaneth wizards in at some stage, but we've talked them to death in the Sylvaneth thread and they are all probably tier one or two. Without further rambling, here's the tier list: Tier One: Highly Useful Loremaster (100 points - leader): 100 points to get rerolling hits AND wounds on a unit. Basic stats: 5 wounds, 4+ save. 6” move. He rerols failed save rolls in the shooting phase. Average melee and no shooting. Unique Spell: Hand of Glory (5): Pick a model within 18”, that model can re-roll failed hit and wound rolls until the next hero phase. His low cost at 100 points, and this spell is what placed him at the top of tier one. Being able to put rerolling hits and wounds on a big hitting model like a Spirit of Durthu massively increases their effectiveness and at 100 points it is very easy to slot him into most lists without having to redesign the list around him. Sitting 18" behind your big hitters, they are going to want to shoot him off, but in cover he will have an easy 3+ save rerolling just to make that more difficult. Otherwise, leave him more in range and make them choose between attacking the Loremaster, or attacking what he is buffing. Battlemage (100 points - Leader): highly flexible, can do damage, buff or debuff depending on what you want each game. Basic stats: 5 wounds, 6+ save. Average melee and no shooting. Unique Spells: The battlemage has access to one of 8 spells, you choose one "when setting up this model" (plus mystic shielf and arcane bolt of course). Chain lightning (6): Unit within 18” suffers D3 mortal wounds. Roll a dice for each enemy unit within 6", on a 6 that unit also suffers D3 mortal wounds. Fireball (5): Pick a unit within 18”. Roll a dice, on a 1 or 2 it suffers 1 mortal wound, 3 or 4 it suffers D3 mortal wounds, 5 or 6 it suffers D6 mortal wounds. Soul Steal (5): Pick an enemy unit within 18”. You and your opponent roll a dice, both adding your bravery to the dice roll (Battlemage is 6 bravery before modification). If your score is highest, they suffers the number of mortal wounds equal to the difference between scores. Light of Battle (4): Pick a unit within 18”. That unit does not need to take battleshock, and all units within 6” add one to bravery until your next hero phase. Final Transmutation (6): pick a visible enemy unit within 18”, your opponent then picks a model within that unit and rolls a dice. If the result is more than that model’s remaining wounds it is transformed into a gleaming golden statue and slain (no mortal wound save vs this). Mystifying Miasma (6): Pick a visible enemy unit within 18”, until your next hero phase your opponent must subtract 1 from all hit rolls for that unit. Wildform (6): pick a unit within 18”, until your next hero phase you can add 1 to all wound rolls for that unit. Lifesurge (5): Pick a unit within 18”, one model in that unit heals D3 wounds. That unit also gets a 6+ ward save. At his low cost of 100 points and this amazing flexibility of spells is what places the Battlemage in second position. Note that it explicitly says you choose (no rolling!) his spell when you deploy him, so you should raise this with any tournaments that want you to build in spells into your list. The spells all obviously have their benefits, with multiple damage spells each good against different types of armies, three buffing spells and a debuff. Highlights include running Soul Steal when using Spite Revenants -1 bravery buff, using Final Transmutation against lower wound heroes or elite units (they pick the model, but do they pick one you've already wounded or do they pick a model on full wounds and risk losing that instead), using Lifesurge on an already healy Sylvaneth army (and getting a 6+ ward save to boot), and getting those +1 to wounds or -1 to hits against an already hard to hit (I've gotten to -3 to hit a unit) Sylvaneth army. Sisters of the Thorn (220 points): Not cheap, but gives you rerolling saves doing mortal wounds back. Stack with save modifiers to really hurt your attacker. Basic stats: Five 2 wound models, 5+ save, 12" move. Average melee, with an average shooting attack (9" range only), but any shooting is nice these days. Can re-roll their run rolls. Unique Spell: Shield of Thorns (6): Pick a unit within 18". That unit can re-roll failed save rolls until your next hero phase. In addition, each time you make a successful roll of a 6+ or more, the attacking unit suffers a mortal wound. Obviously, at 220 points the sisters are all about this spell. Rerolling saves is nice on a high priority target, but the 6 or more of course means that that is affected by save modifiers. Mystic shield makes it 5's doing mortal wounds, in cover goes to 4+, any unique save modifiers (dryads get +1 save when there's more than 12 models, Sylvaneth have a +1 to save item, though monsters don't get cover) can bring that down to a rerolling save (probably saving on a 3 or so depending on your save stat), with 2/3 or half of the saves doing mortal wounds back! Obviously, straight up mortal wounds and high rend are the answer to that, but a lot of armies don't have access to that so this could really be a PITA for some lists. Stick it on a Durthu to get survivability, or put it on 20 Dryads to really punish them for trying to take an objective. Obviously, at 220 points they aren't cheap and probably you would start to design lists around them rather than the other way round, but in some games they would be insanely valuable and in others still pretty good. Celestial Hurricanum with Battlemage (320 points, Leader and Behemoth) Basic stats: 11 wounds, 4+ save. 10" move (gets worse as it takes wounds). Obviously bad melee attacks, but fantastic, albeit short range (18") shooting attack. If you've taken 2 wounds or less, you're rolling 3 dice (no hit or wound rolls) with 1-3s doing a mortal wound, 4-5s doing D3 and 6's doing D6 mortal wounds. So anywhere between 3 and 3D6 mortal wounds. Not sure what the math hammer would say the average would be. Portents of Battle ability gives the infamous +1 to hit buff to units within 10” (down to 2” at 9+ wounds). Gives itself (and any other collegiate arcane wizards within 10" if you have them) +1 to cast. Unique Spell: Comet of Casandora (6): Pick a unit within 18”, then your opponent picks one of their units within 18” of caster. One a 1-3 the unit your opponent picked is struck, on a 4-6 the unit you picked is struck – that unit suffers D6 mortal wounds. At 320 points the Hurricanum isn't cheap, and you are definitely going to need to build the list around this inclusion. The +1 to hit buff is amazing, and is obviously going to work well with ranged units (Kurnoth Hunters!) but also your front line if you can risk getting it close enough. 18" range on its shooting and spell, so it is going to get targeted quickly by anything with a decent range, and is well within move and charge range for most things if you position poorly if you can't force them to prioritise something else. A great source of mortal wounds, the Hurricanum is a fantastic addition to a list and doesn't place higher simply because of the points cost. Archmage (120 Leader): 120 points for a 18" 6+ ward save bubble. Basic stats: 5 wounds, 6+ save. Give him a steed for 14" movement. +1 to unbinding rolls. Unique spell: Elemental Shield (6): The archmage and all units within 18" of him get a 6+ ward save. An AoE 6+ ward save is obviously great. In a mixed order army the Archmage would definitely be high tier one, but if you are choosing one wizard for a Gnarlroot wargrove, although he is awesome you are probably going to choose one of the other tier one's over this guy. If you face a lot of mortal wound armies obviously his value skyrockets, but he's a little more expensive at 100 points than the Loremaster and the Battlemage. Tier Two: Useful Skink Starseer (160 points, Leader): 160 points for dice roll modifiers, might be worth it if you had some points spare but hard to see this being used over other options. Basic stats: 5 wounds, 4+ save. 5” move. Cosmic Herald: Can get some rerolls for the round depending on a mini game where you and your opponent both choose a dice value. If they don't match yours you get that many rerolls for the round, but if they do match yours, then they get that many rerolls instead. Unique Spell: Curse of Fates (4): Pick a unit within 20”. Once per phase, until your next hero phase, you can increase or decrease the result of a single dice roll by one. I was a lot more excited about this unit when I thought it could summon other Seraphon, but unfortunately that is of course the Slanns only. In my disappointment I moved it down to tier two but there's a chance it still belongs higher. Gets some fun points for the Cosmic Herald mini game, and rerolls are always nice (though you might give some up). Spell is a nice buff or debuff for heroes with a smaller amount of more powerful attacks, just wait until they roll so you can take out an attack. Luminark of Hysh with Celestial Battlemage (240 Behemoth + Leader): 240 points for an nice shooting attack and a decent spell. Basic stats: 11 wounds, 4+ save. 10” move (lower as wounds taken). At full strength it has 1 30" attack (3’s and 3’s) -2 rend 6 damage missile weapon. Unique spell: Burning Gaze (6"). Pick a visible unit within 18", they suffer D3 mortal wounds, but is doubled if they have 10 or more models and tripled if they have 20 or more. On 3's and 3's it's often going to miss with its attack, but being able to kill high priority targets turn one is very strong in the current meta where most people want to make the opponent go first. When you hear about needing to take out savage ork heroes to squash the Kunning Ruk and etc, think of this thing. The spell is obviously very good versus hoard armies. Triple D3 mortal wounds going into a lot of units early into the game is amazing. A little expensive at 240, but might do well in some armies to add solid ranged threat. Put some Kurnoth Hunters with bows on the board and your threat range is incredible, but if you were going to do that you might be better off with the Hurricanum's +1 to hit. Very good (I wouldn't want to verse one), but not an obvious first choice over the other options. Mistweaver Saih (80 Leader): she is a cheap hero at 80 points which places her a little higher than she would be otherwise. Basic stats: 5 wounds, 6+ save, 8" move. Can giver herself +1 to save versus one attack per turn. Unique Spell: Illusory Assault (6): 24” range, roll 3 dice. If it exceeds the units bravery D3 mortal wounds, if double D6 mortal wounds. From Silver Tower. Has a nice spell if you are going up against low bravery armies. Against bravery 10 daemons or Seraphon you're better casting arcane bolt though. She's cheap, so not a bad option if you have a spare 80 points in a Gnarlroot list, but you're better off planning your list around one of the tier one options. In a mixed order list I'd probably rather take more troops (skinks) for a similar price. Archmage on Dragon (360 Leader, Behemoth): A little expensive (40 points less than Durthu), but brings mobility, some good damage and a decent spell Basic stats: 14 wounds, 5+ save. 14” move. Good melee damage from the dragon. Dragon can shoot an enemy unit within 12” which takes 1, D3, or D6 mortal wounds depending on a dice roll (1/3 chance of each). Gets two spell casts and two unbinds. Unique Spell: Drain Magic (4): Select a unit within 18”, any spells affecting that unit immediately cease. If that unit is a daemon unit it suffers D3 mortal wounds. Not bad, and if you had the model already it would be tempting to use it. It's nice to have some mobility with good ranged damage. The main problems I see are 1st, the points. At 360 points that's 6 Kurnoth Hunters (30 wounds!) or almost a Durthu, so you would really need to be efficient with this guy to get his points back. Secondly, with only a 5+ save base (compared to the $+ save for hunters, or the 3+ save for Durthu) any decent attacks with even no or -1 rend are really going to take this guy down quickly. Like many of these big, non-Sylvaneth characters, the Regrowth spell is only going to be healing D3 back as well. Tier Three: Not Very Useful Sorceress (80 points, Leader): Another cheap hero who gives decent -1 to hit debuff, but the spell is a difficult 7 to cast without other Darkling Coven models to sacrifice. Basic Stats: 5 wounds, 6+ save. 6” move. Average melee, no shooting attack. Unique Spell: Word of Pain (7). Pick a visible enemy unit within 16”, that unit suffers a mortal wound. In addition, your opponent must subtract 1 from any hit rolls for that unit until your next hero phase. She is cheap and the spell is decent, but it's a 7 to cast so just take the battlemage for much more flexibility and an easier 6 to cast hit debuff spell. Skink Starpriest (100 Leader): Another -1 to hit debuff spell Basic stats: 4 wounds, 5+ save, 8” move. Average melee. Serpent Staff ability makes other seraphon do double damage on 6 + to wound. Unique Spell: Summon Starlight (6): pick a unit within 20”, subtract 1 from the hit rolls of any attacks that it makes (if chaos, it also suffers D3 mortal wounds). It's fine. Better if you have other Seraphon units, but otherwise just take the Battlemage. Battlemage on Griffon (280 points, Leader, Behemoth): I wouldn't laugh in ones face but at 280 points he isn't cheap. Basic stats: 13 wounds, 5+ save. Starts at 15” move (gradually down to 7” when 12+ wounds taken). Decent melee attacks (27 wound output if rolling perfectly, but 4 or 3’s to hit, 3’s to wound), no ranged. Unique Spell: Amber Spear (7): Pick a model within 18”, that model and all other units on the line from the caster take D3 mortal wounds. Not a bad unit to have run up the flank, but at 280 points that's almost a Treelord Ancient and is the same points as Drycha Hamadreth. The spell is fine but takes positioning and at 7 to cast wont even go off half the time (he gets +1 to cast in the realm of beasts, but when was the last time that happened). Spellweaver (100 Leader): Can automatically unbind one spell per game but her spell only works on wanderers. Basic stats: 5 wounds, 6+ save, 6" move. Average attacks. Ancient Blessings ability guarantees one unbind per game if in range. Unique Spell: Blessings of Life (5): 16" range, brings D3 slain wanderers models back. While the unbind is nice, her spell only effects wanderers. If you have more wanderers she might be a good option, but otherwise she's not particularly useful compared to the other options. Slann Starmaster (260 Leader): Can summon more Seraphon without breaking Allegiance in Gnarlroot, but that's quite a points investment. Basic stats: 7 wounds, 4+ save. 5” move. Average melee. 3 spell casts and unbinds. He has some complex abilities that I wont describe here because they mostly effect Seraphon. But in a Seraphon heavy mixed order list he's worth considering. Unique Spells: Light of the Heavens (6): battleshock tests for celestial daemons or chaos daemon units are made using two dice (choose the lowest for celestial, the highest for chaos). Only in tier 3 because of summoning which is nice. Lame spell, but you would just use this to summon Seraphon units in a Gnarlroot formation. Probably not worth the points investment, the advantage of summoning cheap skinks is massively offset by the 260 points the slann costs. Check out his abilities if you are running multiple Seraphon units though. Tier Four: Not Usable Doomfire Warlocks (200): sound more exciting than they are Basic stats: 2 wounds each, 5 models, 5+ save. 14” move. Average melee, no shooting. Unique Spell: Doombolt (5): Pick a visible enemy unit within 18”. The target suffers D3 mortal wounds if the casting unit has <5 models, D6 mortal wounds if you have 5 or more, and 6 mortal wounds if you have 10 or more models. You will get one or two D6 mortal wound spells off, but you paid 200 points for that and not much else. It's 20 points more than 3 Kurnoth hunters, and double the cost of many good tier one options. Lord Kroak (540 Leader): Even if they let him multicast his spell he's still too expensive. Basic stats: Special Kroak wounds. 4+ save, 5” move. In the battleshock phase, roll a dice and add the number of wounds Kroak suffered. If it’s more than his bravery (base 10), he is slain. Otherwise he is immediately healed. Command ability that gives up to 3 dice rerolls before your next hero phase. Gets 4 spell casts and 4 unbinds. Unique Spell: Celestial Deliverance (7/8/9). Roll 3 dice to determine range, each enemy unit within range suffers D3 mortal wounds (D6 for chaos). Comets call (7): pick up to D3 enemy units, or D6 if the casting result was >10. Each of these units suffers D3 mortal wounds. Spells are nice, but just pick something else for the points (9 Kurnoth Hunters). Sorceress on Black Dragon (340 Leader, Behemoth): decent damage but expensive for a lame spell Basic stats: 14 wounds, 5+ save. Decent Melee damage from the Dragon. Can shoot, pick a unit and roll a dice for each model within 6", 6s cause mortal wounds. Unique Spell: Bladewind (6): Pick a visible enemy unit within 18” and roll 6 dice. Each dice less than their best ‘to hit’ characteristic they suffer a mortal wound. Expensive for average stats and a pretty lame spell. THE END
Hi all I'm seeking a little clarity of multiple wizards casting the same spells in the hero phase...at my club last week it was mentioned that I could only cast 'regrowth' with my sylvaneth wizards once per turn. In theory I could have numerous wizards casting this same spell, or any other for that matter I.e mystic shield. In the faqs 1.0 it says that mystic shield CAN be cast multiple times on same unit, increasing buffs accordingly. My question is then, does this apply to all spells? Can I cast the same spells with different wizards in any given hero phase?