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Gwendar

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Posts posted by Gwendar

  1. On 5/17/2021 at 7:03 PM, fishwaffle2232 said:

    This will require placing 1 gnawhole in my deployment and 1 on each board edge

    You should really be doing this most of the time anyway. Depending on the matchup you generally won't benefit from keeping something in their deployment and you're typically better off with 1-2 of them in your own and 1 on an edge or 2 on the edge in and 1 in your deployment

    On 5/17/2021 at 7:03 PM, fishwaffle2232 said:

    This is obviously a high risk play, as the jezzails are going to be out of position with an engineer. This brings me to my next option, a warpgrinder team with clanrats. After throwing the jezzails forward, the warpgrinder team can pop up with 20-40 clanrats as a screen for the jezzails and the engineer. The enemy will have no choice but to direct attention towards these units or risk being shot apart. also the clanrats are hopefully in a position where they can threaten an objective.

    Yes, it is risky and is why I don't do it anymore. 12 Jezzails will do 16 damage on average with a warpspark. That's not bad by any means, but it's not exactly ripping anything apart and when you're dedicating Clanrats and a Warpgrinder to screen them I just don't see the value. You're probably better off just taking 10-20 Night Runners and using the pre-game move to get more speed to screen them for less.

    On 5/17/2021 at 7:03 PM, fishwaffle2232 said:

    The reasoning for the above strategy, is that quite often I am forced to take the first turn and unfortunately with the short range of the ratling cannons on the stormfiends, it is very hard to capitalise on going first, and if the opponent then pulls off the double turn, it can be very hard to turn things around. 

    I think you need to understand that you don't have to be in range to shoot anything T1 anyway. I've ran 2x6 Fiends and used to run 1x9 back in the day and I've never had an issue because at the end of the day they are a short range threat, not a long range threat. The Windlaunchers on average will take out 5 wound heroes fully buffed the same as 6 Jezzails would and they don't even need line of sight.. so until the Ratlings get in range, you can still benefit from that threat the unit provides.

    3.0 will change a lot but I will likely run 2x6 Fiends for the tournaments I have coming up at the end of August if it doesn't land by then and change things. All I can say is don't ignore Gnawholes as an option for Fiends

  2. 12 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

    @Gwendar i forgot about magister, how can I put magister in? What i can  remove in your list  to find a place for him? Maybe great bray shaman? Thx  a lot!

    I suppose you could, although I greatly prefer the ability to pull things out of what with the Shaman's spell. Plus it makes the Skyfires move an extra 3" if that matters to you (45" threat range) compared to just doing d3 MW's and maybe getting another Spawn. Either way it can be justified I suppose.

  3. On 4/3/2021 at 4:20 PM, mrcamp1990 said:

    Excuse me @Gwendar, what do you mean by "in that scenario you just use the Changeling as a RR battery"? 

    Thank you in advance

    I meant the The Blue Scribes could hand out casting RR's, not the Changeling.. sorry 😅

     

    On 4/3/2021 at 6:07 PM, Tizianolol said:

    As alweys i love your  lists  so mutch, expecially the second one!

    -Do you think they gonna change belakor warscroll?:)

    - what about add balewind vortex for herald of tz ( 40pts) if I decide to play englighted? 

    Thx so mutch!!:)

    I appreciate it, I love making and sharing them with people. As for Be'lakor, absolutely.. I think it's a given he will be changed and points will be increased since he's basically just Archaon but for Daemons.. so I leave him out of lists since he may\may not have the unit shutdown and even if he does he may double (or more) in points and then it won't be worth it in a casting based list (unless he becomes as beatstick as Archaon)

    I ran BW all the time for the Changecaster since it pairs so well with him.. but in that particular list I just couldn't fit it in which is fine. If you can afford it in a list do it, otherwise it's not a huge detriment if you don't have it


     

    On 4/4/2021 at 5:15 AM, Tizianolol said:

    Speaking about host duplicious, if I summon a spawn into an opponent unit, that spawn became an host duplicious unit? So enemy unit cannon retreat? 

    Correct, that's one reason I typically run my caster lists in HD (and also why you could use a Magister as he also can summon a Spawn with his spell) along with the fact the free RR's to casting\unbinding are so good.

    • Like 1
  4. @Icetea It's consistently done well in quite a few tournaments the last few months. Here's a couple examples of games from The Honest Wargamer from a few weeks back:

    Archaon List Games

    The damage isn't really bad, not much different than 9-12 Flamers in my opinion. Archaon can quite easily wipe out hordes or stick around while you cap objectives.. Kairos + Portal is obviously quite good at sniping heroes and\or pulling things closer for Archaon to charge, especially T1. I would say to watch those vods of the games and you'll have a good impression of how it works.

  5. On 3/28/2021 at 2:17 AM, simakover said:

    Somebody tried The Unbound Flux ? im really like tzeentch army from last codex( there we use 8 endlesses and 40 pinks), but new codex makes army ranged focused rather then magic focused. May be Unbound Flux can solve some of this problems? 

    If you want to run a magic focused list, I would argue Hosts Duplicitous for the free RR's is the better option.. hell, even Guild. Flux is only giving 1 caster a +1 to cast and any spell cast that does MW's to a unit will do 1 more on a 4+ to that unit; not exactly good by any stretch of the imagination. I've posted plenty of spellcasting lists and I ran them competitively for ~4-6 months with good success. Unfortunately against the current meta shooting armies it can struggle a bit since it's hero-based. If you play vs something without hero-sniping capability it's great.


    Speaking of lists, have a couple to run by you all if you're looking to try anything new. I don't post much anymore but IRL games may be starting again soon and I'm looking at starting up my batreps again with the following lists:

    Varanguard

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Tzeentch
    - Change Coven: Hosts Arcanum

    Leaders
    Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Spell Hunters
    - Artefact: The Fanged Circlet
    - Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
    Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
    - Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
    Kairos Fateweaver (400)
    - Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
    Great-Bray Shaman (100)
    - Allies

    Battleline
    10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
    10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
    - 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
    10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
    - 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield

    Units
    6 x Varanguard (560)
    - Daemonforged Blades

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Umbral Spellportal (70)
    Darkfire Daemonrift (80)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 100 / 400
    Wounds: 96

    Essentially an Archaon list, but with 6 VG instead. With Daemonforged weapons you're looking at similar output as Archaon and you get to fight again if there's still something within 3" effectively doubling that damage (~36 wounds vs a 4+ on average per pile-in) and actually ending up a bit higher than Archaon with 10 more wounds

    OG Casting (slightly modified)

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Tzeentch
    - Change Coven: Hosts Duplicitous

    Leaders
    Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Will of the Phantom Lord
    - Artefact: Brand of the Spirit Daemon
    - Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
    Kairos Fateweaver (400)
    - Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
    The Blue Scribes (120)
    - Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
    The Changeling (140)
    - Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
    Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
    - Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
    Great-Bray Shaman (100)
    - Allies

    Battleline
    10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
    - 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
    10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
    - 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
    10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
    - 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield

    Units
    6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Umbral Spellportal (70)
    Darkfire Daemonrift (80)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 100 / 400
    Wounds: 100
     

    This is essentially my original casting list, but without Be'lakor (since he's due to be changed into who knows what) and adding in 6 Skyfires. Now, anyone who's seen me post before knows I sing praises about Skyfires; yeah, they're overcosted but they aren't as horrific as everyone seems to think. They're a bit dual-purpose and make your opponent (who will undoubtedly beat you on drops) think a bit about their 40" threat range taking out one of their support characters. Since they get RR's by attacking first you can easily get them to clear an objective of a chaff unit since fully buffed they're generally throwing out ~20 wounds vs a 4+ save. Are they going to take down 20 Hearthguard or 30 Phoenix Guard? No, but that's not their purpose; you have a ton of MW's via magic and a few ways to stack negative modifiers on units to take care of situations like that. This will generally get out at least 10 FP a turn unless you roll absolutely horrifically.

    Obviously if you like you can drop Skyfires for Enlightened or a StD unit + Sorc Lord or switch around the casters. This could be ran in GoS too and in that scenario you just use the Changeling as a RR battery.. I just enjoy summoning inescapable Horrors every turn and getting free RR's to casting and unbinding without worrying about rolling to get the RR's that I always end up rolling a 1+ for.

    • Thanks 1
  6. 10 hours ago, Darkhan said:

    12 fiends man! 12 fiends anyday! It's chill, relaxing, fun and hilarious, specially at an event. Doing 12 fiends at the next tourney myself.

    Played a similar list against Khorne bloodthirster list, his 2x thirsters 1x greater deamon thirster never saw combat😂

    I would consider dropping the screaming bell for maybe just a wizard on foot. Toss in more clanrats, and ever consider taking up geminids.

    Currently that is most likely what will happen.. Either that or a mish-mash list that I've ran once and played against a couple times with a few power pairs; 40 Monks + Furnace, 6 Fiends + AW and a Deceiver + WLV being the main threats. The last one being a big detriment to even armies with strong casting as they'll need to dedicate blocking out 6" of space or else that WLV can come down on them. Kroak may get +'s to unbinds or Tzeentch can get Destiny Dice or match a high roll with Kairos\LoC but eventually they'll still roll low and you'll roll high. At the very least the Deceiver can get in somewhere they don't want it and it will take resources to kill or it will kill support heroes in their backline. The mindgame that combo has is worth it if you're looking for something different.

    I see the point on a foot wizard, haven't really finalized the list yet. A Bell has always been a good inclusion because of the BS immunity. Bell of Doom is nice and all, but in the event that fails I like to have a Screaming Bell around to fit Fiends near.

  7. 1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

    The extra point of rend on the exalted is pretty relevant as well (especially against rerolls), and the damage per point of flamers and exalted flamers is very similar, obviously flamers are better with the +1 to hit from the exalted but 2 exalted flamers are cheaper than a unit of flamers and 1 exalted.

    I believe this is the reason a few people were giving HA Changehost lists a shot and filling them with 4-6+ Exalted Flamers and loading up on Pinks\Spellcasting to compensate for the absurd damage of EC Flamer Spam.

  8. 5 minutes ago, Kasper said:

    Right I remembered him being an aura of reroll 1s to hit, not all hits. Thats a "tad" better. :D Arent the Flamers on 3/2s unless they shoot at a 10+ unit?  Base 4 with +1 from an Exalted nearby. The reroll increases consistency and is nice for sniping heroes. I believe Anttu ran with 2x6 Flamers and 2x1 Exalted Flamers, so thats quite a bit of firepower you are buffing with reroll all hits. 

    I didnt actually watch their games so cant comment on them teleporting LoC - But good catch! I have yet to play with Changehost but actually thought it was anything from the batallion you could teleport.

    I guess 7 damage from 2 Exalted Flamers isnt that amazing and it goes up around 9 vs 20+. Enough to cause battleshock and/or put a serious dent into a 10/15 man unit. I liked the idea of retaining a fair bit of casting but at the same time going significantly down in drops, also the mobility from teleporting Horrors around. This is also with Be'lakor waiting around the corner, likely changing massively (most likely going 400+ in pts) in his Broken Realms book in some months (?).  

    Im not sure what else I would switch the 2 Exalted Flamers for, still need that count of 8 for Changehost.

    But yeah, it was also an attempt at playing something else than mass Flamers that people are incredibly tired of even talking about by now. :P

    4/2, +1 from Exalted and +1/+2 from shooting a unit of 10-20+ so they can get to 2/2 since 1's always fail. But yeah I mean there's a case for a Fatemaster with 12+ Flamers.. consistency is king in Tournaments. Now that I think about it I ran a Skimmer + Fatemaster myself with a bunch of flamers and it was just a mobile gun battery separate from the spellcasting core surrounded by Horror screens.

    I'm with you though.. may as well keep them in that particular list. There are enough 10-man chaff units running around that they can blast off for cheap.. just don't think they'll be doing a lot against 40 man units or things with multiple wounds. Just another tool in the toolbox.

  9. 37 minutes ago, Kasper said:

    But arent you already gonna have the Fatemaster roam around with the Flamers for the reroll 1s to hit already? I dont really see the purpose of the Fateskimmer and would probably rather have more Flamers/Exalted Flamers instead of him.

    I really liked watching how Anttu played in a castle formation where everything was within range and slowly moved a deathball forward. 

     

    On another note - Im curious if anyone has played this double bird Changehost list that Dannii played in the Butcher's Tribe team event. Looks quite interesting imo. 

    2 drop list with quite a lot of spell damage output. The 2 Exalted Flamers is an interesting pick imo. I see them as a way to deal with Hordes without having to spend 260ish pts on a Manticore, which is almost useless against non-horde armies, where as the Exalted Flamers still put out OK damage. 

    Turn 1 you could have Kairos cast Blue Scribes reroll spell, have the Blue Scribes use the Spellportal on a 2+ then cast Gift of Change through it. Prior to this you could Changehost teleport the Lord of Change forward to snipe something else. 

    Im a bit worried about bodies, but you get 6 Screamers from Host of Arcanum and with the amount of casts, you could quite quickly summon 10 Blues or even 10 Pinks by turn 2. Might be OK. 

    Sad you cant fit in Geminids, but I actually think Aethervoid Pendulum is underrated against armies that really want to get up close like Ironjawz, IDK eels etc. D6 MWs across multiple units can be a lot! Obviously Darkfire Daemonrift is superior, but we cant slot that in here. 

    Yeah, typically but to be honest I don't think you really need the Fatemaster. With Mutability and an Exalted nearby along with shooting at a unit of 10+ models they're already at 2/2 and the Fatemaster is RR all hits.. I'd rather have a Blue Scribes. RR hits with that good of a profile only gets them ~1 more wound.. of course a case can be made vs them shooting at something with Lo,S but even at a 4/2 profile 3 Flamers will do ~5-6 wounds.

    I think if you're playing Changehost Flamer Spam the best method is to be a deathstar in most cases; far too many people want to use CH to move Flamers and alpha strike something off but it's very rare I find that worth it.. I just noted that you could do it if someone wants to make that risk assessment in their own game. For awhile I ran it with a Soulscream Bridge to emphasize this but found it wasn't really doing enough for the cost. I think if anything is going to be teleporting in CH it's going to be Horrors.



    You cannot teleport the LoC and I sincerely hope they weren't doing that in any games. It's a common mistake but it quite clearly says "pick 1 other friendly unit from the battalion" meaning it can't be the LoC. As for the other aspects, yeah it's basically just a heavy casting version of a Changehost. In my heavy casting lists I typically get at least 10-12 FP per turn but this is without Changehost as it doesn't provide any benefit other than lower drops which wasn't needed. I experimented briefly with HA + Flamer lists combined with lots of spell damage but it just didn't shake out really.. 2 Exalted Flamers will put out ~7 wounds vs a unit of 10.

    Currently the most successful casting list other than what I ran in Butchers Buffet has had 6 Skyfires and a Bray Shaman. Still tweaking it and have thought of including a LoC + Kairos over some other wizards.. but the goal is 10 FP per turn, consistently and that combo eating up half nearly half a list makes that hard. People are tired of CH + Flamers and I think this is why you see so many trying to integrate Flamers into HA lists. I won't say it doesn't work since it clearly does for some, but I think if you want to stay competitive with shooting at a large tournament then you're still going to stick with 9-12 Flamer lists in EC+CH.

  10. On 3/16/2021 at 10:41 PM, Cambot1231 said:

    I've notice a lot of boards saying this seems to be one of the top competitive Changehost list.  I have yet to try out a Changehost list and I was just wondering if going MSU with the flamers like they are here is still good.  I was under the impression that 2 units of 6 flamers was the best for absorbing buffs but then you have to figure out other weaker daemon units to fill out the Changehost requirements.  Also was wondering what sort of role the Fateskimmer would play in a list like this.  Thanks!

    More or less, yeah it's still the best next to Archaon builds.. if you have 9-12 Flamers and an Exalted or 2 then that's a template to work off of. You go MSU so they cannot be focus fired down and since the list you posted doesn't have Fold Reality, then you don't need larger units for that purpose.. the only buffs Flamers take are aura's so they can still stick together but be individual units. If it were me I'd change Firestorm with Bolt since doing at least 1 MW is better than potentially nothing.. or Fold Reality for the Horrors.

    As for the Fateskimmer; it's roaming around with the Flamers and giving them +1 to wound from the aura. 9\10 times you're using Changehost to teleport around Horrors and not Flamers unless you have an opportunity to make an important trade (since they will likely die if out in the open) with them.

  11. 4 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

    I love your first list . I wanna try something similar on tts. What about play only 6 jezail for some ratling ? I think they are underrated,  expecially with sparks 

    Ratlings are underrated, sure, but I still don't think they hold up to a more comp setting and I would need at least 3 which I don't want to sacrifice anything for.

    • Like 1
  12. 1 minute ago, DocKeule said:

    Yeah. And I think plague monks right now are not much more than a meatshield plus. 

    Personally I am thinking about moving away from big blobs. A ten-monk unit or twenty clanrats are often gone just about as quick as a block of 40. So more smaller units might help screen the damage dealers a little longer if the opponent has to take them out one after the other. I think I would swap them for six stormfiends to give the arch warlock something to work with.
     


    Agreed. The shooting is doing alright but they need a melee-hammer and another point reduction for the meat shields or maybe a general "feel no pain" battalion or something of that nature. 
     

    In my games they mostly serve the purpose of forcing my opponent to a unit there on guard duty. The chance to use them for transportation came up a few times but rarely.

    I would disagree, especially with a Plague Furnace supporting them. If they get RR wounds and charge in they're easily pulling out ~30 wounds and that Furnace with Liber is deceptively strong in it's MW output at close range; that's the power pair.

    Your hammers need to be in 30-40 man blobs for the +'s to hit and wound. The only time less than that has really worked has been 20 SV and I'd rather take 40 Clanrats for the same price every single time because objectives. I've ran 6 SF lists for a long time now and it's still an option.. but ultimately I'm looking elsewhere for the time being.


    Skaven melee is in a decent enough spot but yes it's quite clearly fell behind since the game itself has changed. The point costs for things like Stormvermin and Ogres do not match up to more recent units with better\similar profiles. I would highly doubt Clanrats will get another reduction considering they're one of the best battleline units in the game and that's all thanks to Retreat + Charge. Ultimately even GW doesn't seem to understand what they want to do with the game since every tome has about a 50% chance of being written narratively or with competitive unit choices in mind.


    It's going to depend on the list you're running, but in the case of 12 Fiends you absolutely can use the in a punishing way. I've done it and had it done to me plenty of times. You apply pressure to multiple areas at once and they have to start making difficult decisions and that's the strength of the Gnawholes.

    • Like 1
  13. 18 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

    I think with the first list you will run into problems with your staying-power. 40 monks can still produce a lot of hits (although a lot less than before the warscroll-change) but if they get attacked you burn through a block of 40 in one or two turns easily. And after that you have little to do any damage. Same withe the acolytes. I if they get charged they will probably will be wiped out instantly. 

    For the second list you would have to cut the second command trait. Other than that...for me my six stormfiends have been my MVPs in most games. But the warpstone buff (+1 damage) was as important if not more than the re-rolls for the output especially with the ratling cannons. 


    Staying power? All of Skaven is made of paper and 6 Stormfiends and 40 Stormvermin will be wiped off just as easily as 40 Monks and 20 Acolytes.. you don't allow them to get charged to circumvent that fault. What exactly would you propose instead? In all my 4 years of playing Skaven competitively they are a glass cannon and currently the glass part is more prevalent in todays meta while the cannon part has became smaller and smaller by comparison to what other armies can throw out.

    For 2, that was just a list building mistake... I know I can't have 2 command traits and was simply from me duplicating the first one in WSB. It's been changed. Stormfiends will do literally nothing without buffs, yes. Getting the +1 is simple so long as that Bombardier is alive but the RR's are what really elevate them since they're paperweights without it. The 2nd list allows you to be more aggressive as you have 2 units and charging them into something isn't bad either. Fully buffed with shooting + charging and you're looking at 60-75 wounds vs a 4+ save on average. Gnawholes are a valuable tool that I think a large portion of Skaven players don't properly utilize.

    • Like 1
  14. Well, I think I've had enough of a break away from AoS and with Nashcon currently a go for this year and with NOVA making an announcement in a couple weeks... I figure it's time to get back into practice with a group of locals (maybe some TTS but I've mostly been burnt out on it) that are ready to play comp again. Now of course we may be looking at AoS 3.0 before Fall when these tournaments take place, but for now these are 2 lists I'm looking at running and polishing:

    Balance

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Skaventide

    Leaders
    Arch-Warlock (160)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
    - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
    Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
    - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
    Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (200)
    - Artefact: Liber Bubonicus

    Battleline 
    40 x Clanrats (200)
    - Rusty Blade
    20 x Clanrats (120)
    - Rusty Blade
    20 x Clanrats (120)
    - Rusty Blade

    Units
    40 x Plague Monks (280)
    - Woe-stave
    20 x Skryre Acolytes (200)

    Artillery
    Warplock Jezzails (420)

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Extra Command Point (50)

    Total: 1990 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 190


    12 Fiends

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Skaventide

    Leaders
    Warlock Bombardier (120)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
    - Artefact: Vigordust Injector
    - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
    Warlock Bombardier (120)
    - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
    Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
    - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy

    Battleline
    40 x Clanrats (200)
    - Rusty Blade
    20 x Clanrats (120)
    - Rusty Blade
    20 x Clanrats (120)
    - Rusty Blade

    Units
    6 x Stormfiends (520)
    - 2x Windlaunchers
    - 2x Ratling Cannons
    - 2x Shock Gauntlets
    6 x Stormfiends (520)
    - 2x Windlaunchers
    - 2x Ratling Cannons
    - 2x Shock Gauntlets

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Bell of Doom (40)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 175

     

  15. On 1/11/2021 at 12:23 PM, Kirjava13 said:

    Squeak. So corona, lockdown and everything else actually deterred me from any hobby this year and apparently the last time I checked this thread, @Gwendarwas confidently looking forward to NOVA back in March. So almost a year on, where do we stand, furry compadres? How fares that mighty race of noble rats in the current WarHam landscape?

    I've pretty much taken a break from AoS after various tournaments 1-2 times a month via TTS. Been on the Tzeentch train for the majority of the last couple of months but.. the disparity between some factions vs other is nonsensical and no real FAQ changes has cemented me staying away for the time being.

    For me, Skaven can really struggle with the current meta denying their necessary magic and outranging their guns and often doing more damage at the same time. It isn't something I've found to be particularly fun as of late and I've mostly been playing Star Wars Legion and absolutely loving it 😅

    I think major (not 10 point adjustments) points changes and warscroll rewrites and/or a new edition is desperately needed for all factions right now, to be blunt. I haven't decided if I want to bother with Nova or Nashcon this year even if they do happen.

    • Like 1
  16. On 12/10/2020 at 5:26 AM, Kazz said:

    Hi there!

    I have a question about Changehost.

    Is there any video-battlereport or blog post with competetive use of this battalion?  You see - i know how it can potentially work but im eager to learn more about "changehost tactics" (something more than usually: "Just teleport your flamers and nuke enemy with waves of magical flames"). How to play when your flamers dont have range to any viable targets, how to use teleport in rounds 2/3/4 (and so on...)?

    Not that I've seen. There are always going to be lots of factors to this.. but at least 80% of the time is isn't the Flamers you're teleporting, it's Horrors onto objectives or in front of Flamers.

    Now granted, if your opponent leaves something out in the open in such a way that you could teleport Flamers, 1-shot the unit and not have them be threatened then.. sure, you could do that. I've seen plenty of cases however if people being overly aggressive with the teleport and it never works out well unless you plan to just tag some units with Pinks so they can't move. EC Changehost lists really want a double turn of being in range to wipe 2-4 units a turn.

    • Like 1
  17. 8 hours ago, Kasper said:

    Would love to hear about your experience with the tome from the event. :) Do you see any use with the tome in other lists?

    In my game I felt it was literally just Kairos casting spells, all the other dudes sat around and did nothing beside offering up their lore spell. 

    The Great Bray Shaman felt great. I really like this guy and I think its super valuable to give your opponent a ton of different questions, as we have talked about in the past.

    Im really torn on what to cut in the list for the Shaman. I like the Magister because he offers another source of a Spawn which is insane in HostD but sprinting forward in the later turns to summon 10 Pinks onto an objective (or within 9" to DD a charge) is pretty sick. The Blue Scribes can do the same though, and I feel like by turn 3 he has done his job by supporting Kairos with the Spellportal or learning Wind of Chaos on a 4+ to cast on a 2+ through the Spellportal later on etc.

    I wont dwell too much on the exact list since we are so close to the winter FAQ which could change things around

      Reveal hidden contents

    Allegiance: Tzeentch
    - Change Coven: Hosts Duplicitous

    Leaders
    Be'Lakor (240)
    Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
    Kairos Fateweaver (400)
    The Blue Scribes (120)
    Magister on Disc of Tzeentch (140)
    Great-Bray Shaman (100)

    Battleline
    10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
    10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
    10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Darkfire Daemonrift (80)
    Umbral Spellportal (70)
    Prismatic Palisade (30)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 80

     

      Reveal hidden contents

    Allegiance: Tzeentch
    - Change Coven: Hosts Duplicitous

    Leaders
    Be'Lakor (240)
    Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
    Kairos Fateweaver (400)
    The Blue Scribes (120)
    Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
    Great-Bray Shaman (100)

    Battleline
    10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
    10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
    10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Darkfire Daemonrift (80)
    Umbral Spellportal (70)
    Balewind Vortex (40)

    Total: 1960 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 79

     

    Eh.. across 3 games it helped in 1.. otherwise I still don't know how to feel about it. I think it wants to be used in Arcanum so you can 6" move Kairos to be in range T1 if you know you'll be given T1 or you can push screamers in front of him or something. Against things like Kroak/Teclis it's still a hard sell because you want to roll high (10 or 12's to cast) but with the RR's potentially hurting him it's.. I dunno. If you can't fit a Scribes but still want at least 1 super caster, then do it.. but I think it needs pairing with Cogs to get him to 4 casts to make use of it all the way, IMO.

    I'll be honest though, a lot of the time with these casting lists, that's exactly what happens; Kairos is casting their spells. That's most just because he's the most reliable when he's getting a +1 from the agenda and RR's and matching dice. The Ogroid was something I just theorycrafted.. I've yet to play with it yet. A Changecaster is just as good as he can give Kairos Pink Fire to cast.. I just didn't want to use the BW anymore as I assumed it would be going away but we don't know just yet.

    Yeah I've been more into the Bray Shaman myself.. someone else in the tournament was rocking Archaon + Kairos + Bray Shaman to pull things even closer to Archaon and it's something I wanted to put more thought into. Game 1 I had a dude just keep 15 Kavalos outside range and if I had that I would've been fine. The Magister just doesn't do enough for me.. It's usually Kairos casting that spell as it's harder for him to get off himself since he won't get HD RR's being a mortal and all... if you're stuck between him and a Scribes, go with the Scribes. Getting that 2nd spawn can be good in theory but I've personally rarely had it happen in a way that's actually beneficial.

    But.. yeah, I'm not really doing much in the way of lists right now because things are likely going to change in some way in the next couple weeks. I still vouch for a Changeling as you get a 2-cast wizard.. even if you don't do the whole trick of sticking him in their deployment.

  18. 6 hours ago, Kasper said:

    I mean I completely understand wanting to switch things up. You have played the list a fair few times by now, so I would probably want to switch things up too. :DPlay some games and report back! Im curious how it will be on the table. Sometimes things look great/bad on paper but on the table things turn out significantly different. 

    I'm just getting a bit burnt out on it to be honest. I enjoy it quite a lot and it works well, but I see the December FAQ shaking it up a bit. It really wants to play against melee focused armies, and right now the meta just doesn't lean into that and it has a hard time vs shooting. I meant to get some games in this past weekend with the following but.. just wasn't feeling it and WoW had me a little sidetracked 😅


    Arcanum Flamers

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Tzeentch
    - Change Coven: Hosts Arcanum

    Leaders
    Fateskimmer, Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot (140)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Spell Hunters
    - Artefact: Aura of Mutability
    - Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
    Kairos Fateweaver (400)
    - Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
    Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
    - Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
    Fatemaster (120)
    - Artefact: The Fanged Circlet

    Battleline
    3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
    3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
    3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)

    Units
    6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)
    3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
    1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
    10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (100)
    10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (100)

    Battalions
    Aether-eater Host (140)

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Chronomantic Cogs (80)
    Tome of Eyes (40)

    Total: 1990 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 102
     

    2 main threats here; Kairos that can potentially have a 27" threat range T1 and throw out 4 spells and the highly mobile gun battery. I'm trying to lean into casting + shooting a bit without just going into Conflag.. although that would probably be the better option. If I actually make myself play a couple test games, we'll see what happens with changes. And yeah, I could swap out the Changecaster for a Scribes and drop the Tome but at that point I don't have 4 good spells to cast.. only Gift and Bolt.

    • Like 1
  19. 3 hours ago, Hannibal said:

    Hi all,

     

    I´ve noticed a slight trend to Exalted Flamers instead of Flamers. What´s the reason here?

    To be honest, I'm still trying to understand it as well. I planned to run 5 Exalted in an Arcanum list (where the inherent -1 rend should help) but if I pay 60 more points for 12 Flamers instead that don't even have rend, they're doing ~3-7 more damage depending on the save and assuming you're on 2's/2's. Even if you take away the bonuses against hordes, 5 Exalted is doing the same amount of damage across the board for the most part with them being slightly better vs 3+ saves and Flamers being slightly better vs worse saves. Even in Conflag that -2 rend makes the difference between the 2 units about the same with only a 1-3 % difference.

    With the amount of things that already ignore -1 rend or reduce rend.. I'm not really seeing the point aside from people just wanting to run something different for the sake of being different? Who knows, but I'm trying to find out 😅


     

     

    On 11/26/2020 at 8:51 AM, Kasper said:

    Yeah I can see the potential in the Tome, but I just dont like the idea of risking that Kairos brackets himself. This is without even considering random chip damage like Comet's Call or other long range shooting attacks etc. 

    I feel like you could achieve almost the same effect but still having access to Wind of Chaos by taking your other "control list" and shaving off Blue Scribes, Be'lakor etc. 

    The randomness does suck, but I could see it working out alright as a threat. Even if you dont roll well, I think most opponents would think twice before "invading" said space at the risk of getting halved movement, -1 hit, suffer D3 MWs and have a Chaos Spawn appear (Host Dup) makes this even more fun. As I read the Endless Spell, you get to roll a D6 and then see the result and pick a unit afterwards. So if you get a positive buff, you can select your own unit, if not you can select an enemy unit. If there is no enemy unit within 12" of the Sigil, you can just move outside of it as it happens at the end of your movement phase.

    I'm giving a shot regardless though.. adding 3" to your casts could even mean you don't need the Spellportal.. at least not in lists that have another element of damage aside from spells. In my control lists, yeah keep Spellportal at all times.

    I have a few lists in the work now that drop Be'lakor just in case the December FAQ won't be kind to him.. or Tzeentch in general. He's a crux that I've grown a bit tired of so I want to replace it with other elements. I may give the spell a try I guess.. you do make solid points. 

    • Thanks 1
  20. 3 hours ago, Kasper said:

    I have been looking at the Endless Spells for Tzeentch for a while.. My local shop got 30% off due to "black week" so I decided to buy the Tzeentch and S2D ones. I find the Tzeentch ones really awkward after studying the scrolls. While I get the point of Tome of Eyes, I just fear the risk of rolling double 2s or 6s when Kairos is casting 4 spells a turn. He could bracket himself pretty fast on his own without even considering any kind of chip damage, and you have no sustainability?

    I thought of including the Burning Sigil in your other list. The idea of is controlling the midfield and while the Burning Sigil is random, I feel like it could maybe cause a zone (18" setup range and then 12" radius around that) that your opponent likely dont want to walk into. This could cover objectives/midfield somewhat. It is annoying that we have a limit on 3 endless spells though..

    I didn't understand why anyone would take Tome either, but it makes sense after looking a few things over. When it comes to the LoC/Kairos, the dice matching ability is written as "you can change the dice" so if you roll, say a 4 and a 6, just keep that roll.. but if you roll say a double 2 then you can RR it and you have a better chance at not hurting yourself. Overall I think it's a bit gimmicky, but the Tome will add 2-3" to your casts because it moves with you and needs to be setup within 1". I think if you can't fit in Blue Scribes and you really want to make 1 caster (Kairos in all circumstances probably) a turret, it's a good call.

    I thought about that before honestly but.. yeah the random nature kills it for me generally. I would really want to be rolling the halve movement more than anything and with chances like that I would rather take more damage via Geminids/Daemonrift.

  21. 44 minutes ago, Paniere said:

    :x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x   :x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x

    :x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x   :x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x

                                                                             🔺

    Try Multitoudinous host deploying 40 pinks like this, then casting pendulum where the arrow stands, regrowing units with 1s on BS, lifeswarm and batallion ability. GG

    Yeah I proposed a list like that awhile back after speaking about it on Discord.. might be one of the most oppressive/easy win lists in the game. Also means not many people would actually make any attempt at doing it IRL because of the amount of models you would require.

  22. 1 hour ago, Kasper said:

    I havent ever summoned more than once, but I have missed this rule! I thought it was unlimited just like Seraphon. :P

    Please don't get me started on Seraphon today, I can't handle it 😅. I'm just ready for the December FAQ where Be'lakor goes up to 280 and things like Tzaangors stay the same or decrease by 10 while Kroak and Skinks\Skink Priests only go up 20 points 🙃

    "There's no tournament data" despite TTS being an accurate enough source of all your balancing needs. Every now and then you get people running ridiculous lists that they would never actually buy like 14 Chariots in CoS or 10 Cockatrices in BoC (although Mumford actually did buy that many).. but 45 Blightkings and 6+ Salamanders are things that I know plenty of people actually have. Rant over.



    Anyway, signed up for Hammertime 6; a 1-day 3-rounder starting at 7am. Thinking about trying out a casting/shooting HA list this go-round so here's a rough draft:
     

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Tzeentch
    - Change Coven: Hosts Arcanum

    Leaders
    Fateskimmer, Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot (140)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Spell Hunters
    - Artefact: Aura of Mutability
    - Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
    Kairos Fateweaver (400)
    - Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
    Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
    - Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
    Fatemaster (120)
    - Artefact: The Fanged Circlet

    Battleline
    10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
    3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
    3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)

    Units
    2 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (200)
    2 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (200)
    1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

    Battalions
    Aether-eater Host (140)

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Umbral Spellportal (70)
    Chronomantic Cogs (80)
    Tome of Eyes (40)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 81
     

    Basically using my own version of something Joe Krier has been running. Basically just mixing the high casts and turning Kairos into a 4-cast turret with RR's with some shooting by creating a mobile gun platform with the Exalted + Fatemaster (hit RR's and to summon 6 Screamers in front of the Flamers) + Fateskimmer (+1 to wound for the Flamers and -1 to be hit the Screamers/Flamers).

    Still need testing to be done on it.. I'm really not sure on the Tome but if I can pull myself away from WoW for a day this weekend I'll see if I can get some test games in.

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1
  23. 11 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

    BTW. I know I asked about this before, but I want to make sure: Gaunt Summoner (the non-Disk version) has Slaves to Darkness keyword. So, I can use him in an StD army, right? Even though he doesn't appear on StD army lists in the Warscroll Builder?

    Not sure on that one... I know he's a Gaunt Summoner "of Tzeentch" but those keywords would mean he can part of StD an not be an ally.. or so I would assume.
     

    1 minute ago, Kasper said:

    I have been searching high and low as to understand why you can pick between 10 Blues or 10 Brims for the same Fate Point cost. I thought it was a mistake for sure. I cant see an arguement for EVER picking 10 Brims. Even if you want more damage output in melee, it would be better to pick Blues and fire more shots in the shooting phase - Same damage in the end. You just get 10 free wounds by picking Blues. 

    Yeah I can only assume it was for people that forgot to bring their Blues..? I seriously don't understand it and I think they need to be 5-6 FP. You can only summon once per phase anyway, so you wouldn't even need to worry about saving FP and summoning 2-3 units at once.

  24. 11 hours ago, PiotrW said:

    Or am I missing something here?

    All the more reason I think they need to split 1-1-1 but.. that would cut their profits down a lot so I don't see it happening. Currently I have some competitive lists in mind that use 30-40 Pinks but I would never actually use that many in a real game as I would need to have twice as many Blues/Brims and a little extra for summoning potentially. That's simply because if you manage to bring back dead Pinks, they split again.. so you'll always need more than you actually think and it's the only issue I really have with Tzeentch at the minute.
     

    21 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

    So if I understand correctly, you can only summon pinks, but you can field blues and brims as part of your army, using points, is that correct?

    The Gaunt only summons 5 Pinks with the ability, yes.. but those do split. You can always spend 10 Fate Points from any Tzeentch wizard to summon 10 Blues/Brims (why you would ever pick Brims for the same cost is beyond me). You can add in 10 Blues for 100 points or 10 Brims for 60, but only Pinks are battleline.

    • Thanks 1
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