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Gwendar

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Everything posted by Gwendar

  1. Hey everyone, just thought I'd pop in and say I've finally settled Mawtribes as the next army project. Played against this list in Butchers Buffet GT and fell in love with it so decided to give it a go on a 3-rounder this weekend and went 2-1 (probably would've got 3-0 but losing priority twice in a row makes games difficult to come back from😅) so shoutout to Stuart who's been running this: After underestimating them myself.. I quickly found out that Gluttons smacking a Ribcracker target with +1 attack and wound RR's can absolutely throw out absurd damage. Vs KO I think only 4 of them managed to kill ~10 Endrinriggers.. but I watched Stuart's 8-9 on my last game do around 50+ wounds to a unit of Horrors. I think everyone wants to go after the Ironguts in the list, and rightfully so.. but don't underestimate the Gluttons either. Excitedly putting in my battleforce box order asap and maybe even 3 SC boxes for the BCR list.. glad to be joining in with the Ogres and I'll be sure to do plenty of batreps with them.
  2. Yeah, there isn't one for each army.. just start talking Tzeentch and people jump in.
  3. I got a second one this week as well.. so I'm now jinxed to lose my last 2 games🤣
  4. I just wanted to run something that isn't really played.. which is a lot of wizards and debuffs. Some can complain that isn't fun to play against but I can also name 5+ other lists from various armies that "aren't fun to play against". End of the day I mostly just play competitive games and I personally enjoy playing against tough lists. Like I've said the before.. this list is super fragile and a double-turn against you can be really bad if Be'lakor or Kairos changing a dice roll are available.. nearly every game I've had has been 1 mistake away from a loss even if I play it nearly perfectly. I have the potential of playing vs the 3x3 Longstrike with 2 attacks each SCE list in the GT I'm in next round.. and if I do I'm pretty certain that's an auto-loss since this is super susceptible to shooting like that, but can't counter everything 😅 Yeah, Seraphon is rough if they have multiple threats (which obviously they usually do since everything is severely undercosted...) but Lumineth hasn't been an issue for me so far.. I've yet to play KO. I don't build lists for my local meta though, especially since I haven't played them since February thanks to Covid. I would never bring it unless they asked as I know they would struggle to play against it. Oh you're 100% correct, I'm just saying that in this list and it's updated brother I don't really have need for it and find the stacking of -'s to hit to be a bigger threat over moving something closer. It has value in the list for sure and you've made that clear for the reasons given. Just personally I would prefer more debuffs to better control midfield when they get that close.. at least when it comes to these HD ones. The bottom line with Fold Reality is what risk you're willing to take. If you can risk it going off to get some Pinks back with no threat to something charging you then I'll do it if I have 20 or less. If they're still stuck in combat with something and my opponent goes next or has a chance with priority, then I'll probably keep them there since they'll be stuck in combat anyway which is better than them being freed up and having the ability to punch me if I haven't created a double layered screen. Lots of scenarios come into play with it as you're finding out. I agree, and having not played against a ton of shooting other than Seraphon or 20-30 Lumineth Sentinels I know that's the weakness. I'm hopeful 3rd shifts the game back towards more melee, but that could also mean a list like this would get nerfed as a by-product. Time will tell... I think a change to how squishy heroes can be protected alone will change the shooting meta. Untamed Beasts are a popular pick to get a cheap pre-game move out there if that's something you want to look into.. one of my updated lists does include 10 Brims though for more zoning. Endless spells are tough.. I really wish we could have just 1 more. Spellportal is absolutely a must have if you bring Kairos (or even a LoC probably) but I think the others are preference. I have a preference with Daemonrift since it's so absurdly strong against most armies and the ability to just auto-dispell it means it never comes back at me. Geminids can also pump out decent damage, but the debuffs can absolutely cripple units when combined with all the other -'s to hit/wound that I can easily get in the list. I have a 5 Wizard variant that I will be testing that has both, and another 6 Wizard one that drops Daemonrift just so I can see how it works without it. Also, if you wanted to talk more list strat and get games in, Coachs discord is the best for it in my opinion: https://discord.gg/fHZySVrzEA
  5. Funny, a few people have disagreed with your 1st point and have said that my list is "auto-play" like Changehost Flamer spam, which I find pretty funny. It plays on a knifes edge and 1 little thing going wrong can see you lose outright. But yeah, I've only ever make all-comers lists even when I was playing locally in a meta with nearly no shooting.. simply because I plan to play at large events. It still can really struggle vs shooting as all of your Heroes are the crux, Kairos in particular.. but I haven't played against a lot of heavy shooting yet or if I have it's only been 1-2 units that get shut down with Be'lakor. It does have a lot of tools, but at the end of the day it's super fragile to almost anything. Be'lakor He typically gets used as something that can cap lightly guarded objectives or take out a squishy/not very punchy hero. Usually he's straddling one of my flanks, especially vs armies with teleports\fast movers. You're paying 240 points for the ability to shut down a unit first and foremost, and he doesn't even need to be alive for that to happen. Anything after that I consider a bonus, like his 2 spellcasts (just keep in mind he doesn't get the unretreatable bonus or the RR's since he is an ally). It sounds like you made just fine use of him really.. I'd rather people shoot at him than my horrors or other heroes. Changecaster Neither am I, hence why in my updated list I've dropped him. Far too often he sits on that BW throwing out spells that on average for me do 1-3 MW's each. If I was rolling 4+ everytime I would find value but.. usually he only pays off with the ability to keep casting spells on a 9+ which means I can get 4 FP's out of him. At the end of the day, he's a 110 point wizard (150 if you count the BW) with good potential, but it's very swingy potential. That 24" works just fine for me since this army is all about controlling the midboard, not reaching into the back of the table outside of Spellportal. Great-Bray Shaman While I haven't used it yet, I think the Devolve setup probably works better in HA because you can combine that with the free 6" move you get.. even better if you run some Enlightened/Skyfires. 9/10 times I'm going to be casting Gift or Winds of Chaos through the portal.. but pulling something off an objective or buff range like you said is a great way to use it although you have to be very mindful of your positioning since it moves towards your closest unit/model. This list goes very deep into controlling the midboard so any tools to expedite things being in that range is nice.. combat armies are usually already there since they want to hit you, but shooting based stuff can easily sit back which where this comes in. Blue Scribes Honestly I don't think I've ever done it.. mostly out of forgetting to but I don't think in my 15+ games with the list that it's ever caused me to lose. Most of the time it just isn't super helpful, but I do agree with Winds of Chaos it would be... I think I need to add it to my spellcasting rotation notes to have him learn it 😅 Fold Reality I'm usually only casting it if I have 15-20 or less Horrors left in a unit and I can risk not rolling a 1.. by that I mean that if I think those 15-20 can survive that combat phase and I have a CP to spend on them then I may just do that so I don't risk them going away altogether and freeing up my squishy heroes to be punched. That said, if you create layers of screens then that isn't a worry. For example, I played against an Ogor list in the GT I'm in Sunday night and lost about 12 horrors that were tying up a single Ironguts thanks to rolling a 1.. now I was able to get that objective back since I just killed him with a spell, but I had nothing else threatening that part of the board for that turn so I felt I could risk it. Especially since I've been able to get 10 Blues a turn to replace them with. Glad you've been running it and enjoying it... once this GT is over I'm going to be practicing with 2 different versions and see what I like. The Changeling and Ogroid are both 2 wizards that I think will be more beneficial than the Magister/Changecaster.. although I would hate to lose that 2nd fast hero, it wouldn't be detrimental. The Changeling with Geminids is going to allow me to get things down to -3 to hit, which can go to -5 to hit and -2 to wound if a unit also gets Treason, Arcane Suggestion and Enfeeble thrown onto it. Basically it's just another unit shutdown at the cost of some potential damage that the Changecaster would have provided. Bolt of Change doesn't do much for me, so swapping him for an Ogroid with a better spell for Kairos to cast and being a reasonable beatstick like Be'lakor seems better to me.
  6. @Aelford Out of what you have there, I would say #2 is the best, although I do like Untamed Beasts for zoning out the board, so either way you wanna swing it. I don't really see the point in the Bridge for #1 hence why I didn't go with that; everything you have is fast enough to not really need it barring the 3 Enlightened on foot.. and you could just take that out and have 3 more Discs. I'm probably not the best to speak about it since I'm known to really feel that Tzaangors are in a poor spot and not really a competitive option.. but I always like seeing people try less common stuff and making it work.
  7. I have no issues with that at all man, doesn't have to be ultra fast and competitive... I don't mind being on the receiving end of Tzeentch just to learn it more and I can always walk you through things/decisions if you want for a sort of tutor game. No worries either way. Yeah, if you don't have a CP then most of the time they're dead.. and my lists usually don't have a CP so I have to position them extra carefully to ensure they live T1. I want 1 big unit of 20, but having them spread out is generally far more beneficial.
  8. I agree, Transient Cult needs to be Tzaangor focused as it's really just another Kairic focused one which makes no sense. I can see one of the Broken Realm SC boxes being a Shaman, 10 Tzaangors and 3 Enlightened/Skyfires or something and making them worth using potentially. I would disagree on Horrors though. In todays meta I really do think they're okay, but I would like to just see them drop in points slightly/get a slightly better save and split 1-1 so I don't need to invest in extra Blues\Brims. That would drive down their profits though so, I'm doubtful of that change. I'm not sure Cygor would be worth it even in Tzeentch. Random damage, low range if they bracket, etc.. and they only do 1 MW if they unbind something. I don't know that you really need 2 Fatemasters though, but I suppose it does counteract the abundance of 4's to hit. Personally, if I was building Phantasmagoria I would think more about a unit 9 or 2x6 Enlightened or something with some Skyfires and fill out the rest with Gors/Ungors and a few heroes. I love the Bullgors though so it may still be a nice alternative to the 9 Enlightened. Would love to hear how testing goes for you.
  9. Thanks! Yeah it was nice to hear them appreciate it. I hope it doesn't catch on though so I can keep it running it all to myself 😅. I don't even get to utilize the no-retreat aspect of it as much if I'm honest.. those RR's to casts\unbinds are what really makes it. I consider myself lucky when they don't manage to kill the Spawn in combat so it can stick around and eat up their resources. That's what happened in my game vs Lumineth by throwing it between the 20 Sentinels who could only kill it via shooting which prevented them shooting at my heroes for a turn. And yeah, the Manticore is surprisingly tanky and killy (if you use Infusion Arcanum, which I would likely switch to) and people don't expect much from it. If I can afford to be aggressive with it then I will as it can tag the corner of something and sit there while they try to beat on it and it slowly kills them off with them unable to retreat. I've been meaning to play the same kinds of Arcanum lists that have been doing so well, particular the stuff from Joe Krier but haven't got around to it. Those are also rather casting based and definitely require some piloting skills to master. If you look further up the page I have 2 concept lists I posted; 1 using 5 Exalted Flamers and 1 using Devolve to pull things closer that may have tried to hide out of range. I'm interested in it for sure and I think it's a very strong Coven, just not as point and click like Changehost+Flamers is.. which is a good thing in my book. Still waiting to see if the Broken Realms books give Arcanites a boost in power though.. I would really like to run a combat based Tzeentch list that doesn't need to have StD elements added in.
  10. Couple of revisioned lists I'm thinking about for the future of the control list: v1 Still with 6 Wizards, but loses Daemonrift. Basic principle here is the same but with a bit more control\shutdown via the Changeling giving me up to -4 to hit and -2 to wound in CC (daemon -1, his own -1, Arcane Suggestion -1 hit/wound and Geminids -1 with Be'lakors -1 wound) which pretty much shut down another unit separate from whatever Be'lakor turns off or what Kairos denies a charge roll with. v2 This was suggested by someone else (thanks Dave 😉) and drops a hero-wizard for more Pinks and I get to keep Daemonrift. Same basic concept as the above. Losing Winds of Chaos can hurt but.. more Pinks is probably better overall. I was fortunate enough to get a shoutout on The Honest Wargamers stats show today which was pretty neat. This week I think I'll try to test the above and put the Hosts Arcanum lists on the backburner for now as I really want to perfect this before I try anything else.
  11. Oh Brims definitely are not bad.. once I have some time this morning I may see what I can put together. Once you starting trying to add Kairos/Be'lakor you're starting to push 2-3 drops which is still going to beat most armies.. but I think points are the biggest thing. You need 660 points in Pinks and then there would be no way to have Kairos and Be'lakor with a LoC since you need to fill out Changehost.. and without either of them I'm not really sure you still have a control based casting list. So here's what happened in my head: The main reason I wanted to go for Kroak is just so I can get his insane +3 unbind shenanigans out of the way since this list is so reliant on spells for damage. All in all, I think you're right and I made a bad call as what you're saying was the other half of my thought process but I gambled. I was afraid Kroak would just unbind Winds and then they would just sit there.. but the worst that would happen is they go next and I could just Be'lakor them since they were the target anyway. That would've been a better gamble than maybe putting some wounds on Kroak 😉 I couldn't kill Kroak in 1 turn anyway so.. yeah, not sure why I went with that. Even top tournament players can make bad decisions they wouldn't normally make every now and then but it was a win overall and I learned my lesson from it. If you ever want to get a game in just let me know and I can run Skaven or something.
  12. Yeah, I've tried building lists with it and it just doesn't work unfortunately. Changehost being as restrictive as it is makes it hard to have all the Wizards you want/need unless you fill it with Brims. Thanks, and yes and no.. he was going to be able to summon 10 Skinks a turn which I didn't want to deal with but I just couldn't kill Kroak fast enough. I didn't bother with the 40 Skinks because I knew I would just shut them down with Be'lakor for 1-2 turns (if he got a double) and Kairos would deny a charge, but I forgot. I made it so that at most he would only be able to shoot at Horrors. That said, I ran that option in my head when playing but decided against it for various reasons. Like I said.. some things I could've done differently to make the game easier for me but all in all it was a success so I can't complain. Definitely going to look at making alternate lists today when I'm not too busy.
  13. And here's my own from todays Butchers Buffet GT game. Brain still fried 6 hours later.. that was the roughest game I think I've played and I definitely need more practice to get quicker with my decisions. As I said in the final section, I'm considering some changes to the list that I may test if I can find the energy to play during a weeknight this week. I still wanna test the other 2 I posted earlier so.. eventually I'll get to everything 😅
  14. My List Seraphon List T1I outdrop and let him go first Nothing much going on here aside from him giving me about 5 FP and sending out Geminids. I made sure all my Wizards would be out of range, but the Kairics on the right were wiped out in shooting from the 3 Salamanders that teleported. My turn has the Terradons brought down to 4 remaining while the Salamanders get taken down to 1 (well, 4 models with Skinks). Miscellaneous Skink deaths in the middle and right via shooting. 10 Blues go down on the right to replace the Kairics and continue to try and zone out any teleporting\deepstriking with his 1 unit in reserve. Seraphon 6-2 Rd1 End (picture after he won priority and moved Geminids and I moved Daemonrift) T2He wins priority, I take top right objective off the table I Dark Master his 40 block of Skinks who get no buffs and sit still. Geminids only manage to kill 1 Pink while I kill 3 Saurus Guard and 1 Terradon with Daemonrift.. which he then Dispells. Luckily I unbound pretty much everything but Comets Calls from Kroak which only did 2 to Kairos. He summons 10 Skinks middle but combat is mostly a slap-fast and his Salamander couldn't finish off the Chaos Spawn, which hit him for 2 more wounds. I kill all but 1 Terradon and 1 of his original 10 Skink unit in the middle and get Daemonrift out to finish off the Saurus Guard.. Kroak only takes 1 out of 5 MW's from it and manages to unbind Gift. I get enough FP to run the Magister middle-right and summon 10 more Blues, but they fail the charge into the Starpriest\Priest. Middle Pinks complete their agenda to count as double models on the back-middle objective. Seraphon 7-10 Rd2 End T3He wins priority, I take bottom-right off the board to force the 40 Skinks middle. As expected, he buffs up the 40 Skinks but I manage to unbind pretty much every else except Comets Call again, which brings Kairos down to 5 wounds taken. He teleports the Starmaster to the bottom left corner and summons 10 Skinks (who fail their charge) while 10 from reserves drop top-left. The 40 block makes it charge and I severely screwed up by forgetting to change a charge roll dice via Kairos.. they manage to kill 39 Horrors out of the middle unit and reduce the Blues to the right down to 4 Brims after BS. Luckily, I had a CP to save the middle unit. This was an absolutely horrific turn for spells and I didn't even manage to get more than a 3-4 off thanks to Kroaks unbinds and I only do 1 to him via Gifts now d6 damage. No Blues, but I do get 3 Pinks via Fold Reality which was crucial. The Changecaster has done nothing so far, which is my own fault for leaving him out in no-man's land devoid of RR's. Right Blues move left and make an 11" charge into the 1 Skink bottom-middle while the left unit of Horrors (now back to full from 1's on BS) spread out and charge the top Skinks. This was another error where I should have just ignored the top unit as I could've kept the objective no matter what.. this would've allowed me to properly zone out bottom-left from being scored. Combat has middle Horrors get taken down to 11 again after the Sorcerer Lord kills ~11-12 Super-Skinks. Seraphon 10-11 Rd3 End T4I win priority, he removes top-left objective. This was a turning point for me finally. Winds of Chaos kills 12 Super-Skinks and I manage to kill Kroak with Gift. Magister runs into his backline and summons 10 Blues who shoot off the Priest. Be'lakor charges the Starmaster, roll 4 hits and... then 4 rolls of 1 to wound while it had only 1 wound remaining. That ended up being a slight turning point for my opponent. With the Starmaster still alive, he summons 10 more Skinks to the right behind Be'lakor and 10 more above him. The 7 from top-left teleport to bottom middle and make the charge into the Blue Scribes while 1 of the summoned Skink units gets into the Horrors. I was just able to pile in 2 brims into range of bottom-middle objective and that combined with the Scribes killing 3 and ensuring I keep control of it. With him failing the charge with the other summoned unit, it was also impossible for him to gain control of bottom-left as well. Be'lakor kills the Starmaster who fails to resurrect, and my opponent concedes as there is no way for him to beat me on points even with a double-turn. Tzeentch Major Victory (13-11) End Of Game Overall ThoughtsThis was the closest, most intensely focused game of AoS I've had in my almost 4 years of playing... and it was long. Both of us made some mistake, me in particular with forgetting to charge the charge roll of the 40 Skinks which would've potentially ended the game quicker had I not let them get into those Horrors. All in all though I couldn't have asked for a better opponent.. but I know both of our brains were fried after that one 😅 Now that I've played ~7+ games with this list, I'm starting to think about some changes. I think having the 2 units of Pinks is crucial, as the lists I've done with only 30 Kairics made me feel barebones. I have to stick with Hosts Duplicitous for those RR's and I dropping to 5 Wizards is probably out of the question, although taking Cogs could make up for it. To be honest, I think the Magister and the Changecaster are both on the chopping block but I haven't decided if I want to drop 1 or both for something else. While I love the Changecaster, I have a feeling the Balewind will be disappearing soon so I'm considering losing him now in favor of the Changeling. This will give me a double-caster who can hand out -1 to hit on something and has the ability to make some horrors -2 to hit. I've also really considered the Ogroid so Kairos can throw out his easier-to-cast-than-Pink-Fire d6 MW spell and heal if needed. Anyway, lots to think about but for now I'll take a break for a couple days after that game. As always I appreciate any comments and all the follows\likes\views you all give.
  15. That's the idea.. will depend who I think is going to go first though considering the order of operations. And yes, it can learn it. He can't learn/cast Gift of Change because it requires a bracket table for it's damage. I pretty much only use the 2+ roll unless he was going to use Boon.. but I also just had a game where he failed the 2+ twice in a row which was fun. I'll have a batrep up for that game later.
  16. It's an interesting concept and I've heard of others doing it before but never looked into it myself just because it seems kinda gimmicky (speaking about the totems vs wizards specifically). I just can't like Tzaangors currently.. maybe they'll get a little boost in one of the Broken Realms books? If you try it out I would always be keen to hear about it. Speaking of trying things out, I've made up 2 lists today that I plan to try out this week: Devolve + Skyfires I kind of want to run GoS for this one actually but I'll figure that out after a game or two. Basic idea is get Kairos casting 4 spells and throwing Devolve through the Spellportal to pull something close enough to blast it with those 3 other spells. Skyfires because they're great despite what some of you may say 😉. A bit gimmicky, but I do feel more secure having Skyfires and 6 Screamers for free instead of 6 squishy wizards. Exalted Flamer Spam This is a take on some of the HA lists I've seen out there with more emphasis on the shooting (though you take a hit in screening by losing Pinks). You can use the pre-game movement to shift the Flamers to be potentially be in range of something while Kairos does the same as his other list and blasts out 4 spells with RR's from the Tome which will actually increase his range ever so slightly. Main reason for the Exalted is simply due to their inherent -1 rend... again, kind of want to try it in Conflag so bump them to -2 but it's hard to not just look at getting normal Flamers for less. I'll try to do a batrep with each if I manage the time to play them. Still in week 2/5 of another weekly tournament so part of me wants to practice with my main list.. but I also want to avoid burnout 😅 Lemme know what you all think.
  17. No, not 1 drop since the wording says "when you would setup another model, you can say it's joining this one" so it would be 2 different drops.
  18. Then I can only assume the upcoming 3rd edition may do something.. I don't know if it's really something that has had enough contention to be included in the December FAQ since it's been a thing for awhile as has been stated.
  19. There's a few other cases where things trigger due to models being slain via battleshock, it hasn't just applied to Horrors. If they intend it to be different, then the wording of battleshock needs to leave out the "counts as slain" thing and have Fleeing be its own thing. For now, RAW they split when being slain via battleshock.
  20. Yes, because you're counting them as being slain. Intention doesn't matter in this case since is purely a RAW question. The OOO doesn't matter here in my opinion as the final word is "they are counted as slain" and therefore they would split. I don't disagree it needs an FAQ, so I would send it in since we should be getting the December FAQs in.. well, December 😅
  21. They count as slain, therefore they split Incorrect, they are in fact Slain as battleshock very specifically tells you that they're slain. Its irrelevant that they "fled" because it says they count as being slain. The horror warscroll is not laid out in a way that says they need to take wounds to split.. it literally just says "when they're slain" they split, regardless of how they're slain. I wasn't 100% on it either.. but having talked with others, this is how it's done.
  22. For all of these reasons, no it doesn't work reliably well in a competitive environment... usually. They're fantastic all in all though I would like to see them be closer to 200 points.. if they do get into something (horde or elite unit) then they tend to do exceptionally well if they haven't bracketed. It's just getting them their intact that can be problematic. I find they work best against melee threats\armies that have few\little shooting or magic whittle it down. Good thing about the latter is that it can ignore magic altogether.
  23. I don't believe so (not that I can find right now at least) but I've yet to see anyone playing Tzeentch not do this. Personally I look at it as one of those undefined things.. some have even equated it to like how "setups" are not the same as "moves" and therefore let you keep any buffs for "not moving" etc.
  24. It's not modifier so it works on both of them. You're just changing the dice roll rather than "modifying" it which is a + or -.
  25. I'm not talking about points changes, all of Eshin and Moulder need far more than points changes to be useful. They need a wave of warscroll changes that either comes with a new tome or a new edition of the game altogether. They literally couldn't make either clan any worse than it already is. Based on math alone, MMMWP and their other various buffs wouldn't be anywhere near enough to make them useable in a competitive environment if nothing else changed. I have enough problems with our Fiends\Acolytes losing 60% of their damage from a spell not going off as is.. I'd rather see some changes there.
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