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991 Celestant-Prime


About Gwendar

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    Lord Celestant

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  1. I'm not talking about points changes, all of Eshin and Moulder need far more than points changes to be useful. They need a wave of warscroll changes that either comes with a new tome or a new edition of the game altogether. They literally couldn't make either clan any worse than it already is. Based on math alone, MMMWP and their other various buffs wouldn't be anywhere near enough to make them useable in a competitive environment if nothing else changed. I have enough problems with our Fiends\Acolytes losing 60% of their damage from a spell not going off as is.. I'd rather see some changes there.
  2. And that's as good a reason as any to run it. I don't mind the Monks so much... But Night/Gunner runners are worse for the monkey sculpt look. Can't wait for 3rd.. and eventually our updated tome with some potentially updated Eshin/Moulder.
  3. Since you technically allocate wounds one at a time until a model dies, then yeah, you'd only roll dice for the max amount of wounds you had left if it wiped your unit (so a unit of 3 would roll 6 even if they did 20).
  4. And no-one would fault you for that because he's a great model. I happen to have the one from Isle of Blood\Spire of Dawn which is plastic but if I didn't I'd 100% be using Skritch as a proxy. That's worth a shot though. And honestly, I would look at 40 Monks so you have another melee threat. Monks and Stormvermin both want Death Frenzy obviously, but if I take both in a list then I can determine who will need it more that turn if they plan to charge into something deadlier than the other. Remember, Death Frenzy is as much of a deterrent as it is a "damage boost". You could do 20 Acolytes if you want to convert them, but I find them difficult to use... would give you Engineer more of a purpose, but once he dies they lose 80% of their damage output via the Warpspark and MMMWP.
  5. So, if you look in the GHB 2020 they have points listed under the "Legends" Pitched Battle Profile (under the Monstrous Arcanum section) but they don't have points listed under the "Matched Play" Pitched Battle Profile like the other FW stuff is under the Monstrous Arcanum section. Points in Legends but not in normal\matched play pitched profiles means they're illegal for tournaments unless given permission.
  6. That's true, you are kind of heavy on them.. not that it's an issue, but your biggest threat here is a double death-frenzied Stormvermin blob and losing that will set you back quite a bit, IMO. I don't see a point in bringing Vial if your intention is to teleport the Doomwheel through a Gnawhole; once something moves it can't move so the double-speed move is wasted. I'll be honest, that double move is insane to the point you wouldn't even need to think about Gnawholes unless you roll like a 4 for movement. You may actually be better off taking Skavenbrew for another +1 attack on the Stormvermin or even Vigordust Injector to give them +1 to hit & Charge (which you can use on the Doomwheel T1 as well). I enjoy Doomwheels when they're buffed with MMMWP as they're somewhat reliable 5-wound hero killers. I would go with that since you have nothing else that can be buffed with that spell. As for Skritch.. with those 40 points in the 2nd list.. yeah, hard to say. I've been using Warp-Grinder teams quite a lot to keep a unit off the board against the heavy shooting\magic meta we're in.. alternatively you could get in Night Runners for the pre-game move to zone some stuff out, or Gutter Runners for a backfield threat T1. I don't really rate the Warbringer all that much since he's taking up 280 points and isn't as big of a threat on the board as some might have you think (with the trait and artifact, maybe but without them, nah) but double death-frenzy is very nice. I'll let other weigh in, but my lists generally cap out at 3 heroes while trying to keep 2-3 big threats on the board.. your WLC and Doomwheel put you at 3, but you'll definitely feel the loss of those Stormvermin if\when it happens. I generally prefer more shooty setups, but a Warp-grinder, 40 Monks + 40 Stormvermin + 9 Jezzails has been a go-to in my head for awhile.
  7. Yeah I know, that's the biggest issue I have with it... not having Winds of Chaos hurts but hopefully Treason combined with the other stuff can do alright. Like I said before I've never been able to get HA to work for me but a lot of top tournament players have. I just don't think it suites me compared to my HD or Conflag lists ๐Ÿ˜… Speaking of the latter, been theorycrafting up a non-changehost version of my Conflag list to incorporate Be'lakor + Kairos. Doubt I'll like it more since the 1 drop is so strong, but having Be'lakor + Kairos is also strong. Especially with a Daemonrift that can be thrown out from off the Bridge:
  8. Ah, makes sense then ๐Ÿ˜… Yeah, I really need to give HA another try since the only time I tried it was with Skyshoal and.. well, that was a mistake. I'm just enjoying the HD lists too much though. This is an alternate take on the double chicken HA list I'm keen to run: Kinda want to try Geminids over BW to stack -'s to hit against the Pinks (or teleport the Fluxmaster, summon the 6 Screamers and throw it out to make them harder to hit) but I dunno, think I'll try this for now. Cogs giving Kairos 4 casts seems nice though and not something I think I would want to change.
  9. I've mostly dropped them, but just for the reason that I'd rather run Fiends + Stormvermin and Grinder and it's hard to get them in. Acolytes + Jezzails + Stormvermin is still valid enough, but I've just found Fiends more able to stand getting shot at compared to Acolytes who take 1-2 turns to get where they're needed (for me at least). Full melee is probably the safest just because you won't lost 80% of your damage from your 1-2 Skryre Wizards dying. I'd say bringing 9-12 Jezzails with that is still a good call if you can fit them in, just because they give you a long-range shooting option and aren't wholly reliant on a Skryre Wizard to do damage like Fiends\Acolytes are.
  10. Nice, always keen to hear how games go for people, especially with less common lists. Any reason for Burning Sigil over Balewind? It works pretty well with the Changecaster + Bolt.
  11. Got another one for you all with the same HD Magic list; this time vs Seraphon. Discussion is always appreciative ๐Ÿ˜…
  12. My List Seraphon List T1 He outdrops me and elects me to go first I manage to get 9 FP and kill the Starpriest via a Blue Scribes 2+ roll on the portal and the Slann failing to unbind Gift of Change. I put the Chaos Spawn within range of the Carnosaur and both Knights units, but it ended up dying from the Carno. On his turn, the Slann does 3 MW's to the Changecaster and 1 to the Scribes with Comets call, otherwise everything just moves up a bit. 3-3 Tie end of t1 T2 I win priority and he removes the bottom right objective. A combination of Winds of Chaos, Gift of Change and Tzeentch's Firestorm manages to kill about half the skinks and Be'Lakor puts -1 to wound on the small unit of Knights. Scribes goes right to summon 10 Blues. Shooting is mostly insignificant and the Kairics charge the small Knights unit. Combat has 5 Kairics die with the rest running from BS while I kill 1 Knight with the Spawn. On his turn, I Be'lakor the left (blue) Knights unit and Kairos stops Comets Call and Stellar Tempest with 12's. Carnosaur, Slann, Terradons and middle Knight unit get a bit closer and the Skinks charge middle Pinks while Terradons charge left Pinks (he almost had enough room to get them into the Changecaster and Magister but coherency issues stopped that). Terradons kill 7 Pinks with the MW's and combat and I do mostly nothing back. 5-8 Seraphon end of my t1 T3 I win priority again, he removes bottom left objective. I finally get the Changecaster on the BW and put ~5 MW's into the Carnosaur. I throw out the Daemonrift to tag the Carno, middle (red) Knights and Skinks doing ~29 MW's in total, killing the Carnosaur and leaving 1 Skink and 1 Knight left, but I Arcane Bolt the last Skink off to free up the Pink unit. Gift the blue Knights to get a Chaos Spawn in range and Winds of Chaos kill 3 Terradons. At the end, I have 21 FP's. I summon 10 more Blues on the right and Magister runs left to get 10 more Blues onto the back left objective. Freshly summoned Blue's make the 9" charge top right, Pinks kill the last red Knight and BS finishes the Terradons. We call the game at this point. Tzeentch Major Victory end of game Overall ThoughtsI think this went about as well as the last game.. my biggest issues are spell priority and where to put the Chaos Spawns. It would've been better if I kept that first spawn on just getting the red Knights tied up and let the Carnosaur be.. spell priority is something I need to just right down as a guideline to speed up hero phase and make my decisions easier. Winning every priority helped a lot here, but I think the screens would've held up okay.. the spookiest part is Comets Call + Stellar Tempest so I was lucky to unbind both and the Slann's +2 to unbinds helped him out a lot in keeping the Changecaster off the BW. I still don't think I'm too keen on changing anything, but part of me wants to remove the Kairics and a Wizard to grab 10 more Pinks. Anyone can see that the Kairics are the weak spot in my screens but having all 6 Wizards is what makes this list function altogether; I can always summon more Blue's. As always thanks for reading and any comments or questions are appreciated. I may try to get a fun Troggoth game up tonight\tomorrow for anyone interested in that ๐Ÿ˜‰
  13. Right.. it's almost like half the team is stuck in the past and oblivious to what actually changed. Oh well.. I still love them even if others don't ๐Ÿ˜‰ Exactly, you're basically just giving up a large reason of what makes them great. If your intention is to keep them behind a screen, then you may just be better off using foot Enlightened, especially since if they're behind one of our many 32mm based screens, they won't be able to hit with the Discs anyway with that 1" range unless that screen gets 1-shot. You could get them behind Blues\Brims I guess, but again you're sacrificing speed and an opponent could easily just ignore them or shoot\MW them off. I've never been very impressed with them... Enlightened had a nice spotlight moment in BoC for a few months awhile back doing the above tactic but have since faded out. Their theoretical damage is quite high, but realistically in most cases 1-2 of them at best are going to be killed before you get to swing with your RR's, especially if you're trying to kill an equally punch unit (which they should be, otherwise just use Skyfires\Flamers). In those cases, you may actually lose 3-4 even if you tag the corner of a unit or potentially lose that many models attacking due to bad pile-ins if you couldn't base-to-base the opposing unit. 5-10 HGB can still easily clear a whole unit like nothing and then just fight again later.
  14. Right, and like I said I agree they need a reduction. It seems like GW is too afraid to drop them or Kurnoth Hunters with Bows down too much because way back in 1st edition they were both pretty solid and that fear is still engrained in their heads. I'm just saying you're more likely to shoot at that lone character with Skyfires than with Flamers outside of Changehost is all.. is it as strong? Absolutely not; on average 6 Skyfires maths out to around 3-4 damage.. but if I have no other use of a 6 then I'll probably use one on it if it's an important hero I wanna kill. I'll never disagree Enlightened aren't better by miles.. but again, I'm looking at the potential threat ranges and the fact that Skyfire can hit first. I usually lose 1-2 Enlightened by the time I get to fight with them to get the RR's. If you stack them behind a screen then that works better of course, I've just not been one for that playstyle.. especially in a shooting meta where things aren't charging the screen in front of them and would just shoot them off instead. I think it just shows that they really seem to be all over the place with decisions. On paper things seem to be okay but if they ran math or really played with things a bit more they just don't make sense, like you said.
  15. Ah, see I really like that. Although FP costs would need changing of course. No one would want another Slaanesh before their 6 month FAQ where you kill all the Keepers just for them to get 1-2 back next turn ๐Ÿ˜… It would just come in within 3" of the garrison
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