Noserenda

Ech... The difference between "Here are some PDFs to get you by, we cant release all of warhammer in a timely manner" and "Here are some PDFs if you must, but get a real army asap" is pretty stark. Not a good look doing it so late either. Unit fillers can be fun and great, but i really hate the ones that are just rocks or other stationary objects literally acting as fillers when some people put huge efforts into actual mini dioramas, pets, monsters and the like to fill in the space whilst looking cool.

But if they get rid of a Beasts, who else will the Cities of Sigmar be doing a colonialism too? ORcs? People care too much! Skaven? That might mean releasing updates for them! Madness!

Warriors of Chaos Champions of Chaos 30 x 30mm Daemon Princes 50 x 50mm Sorcerers of Chaos 30 x 30mm Chaos Warriors 30 x 30mm Chosen Chaos Warriors 30 x 30mm Chaos Marauders 25 x 25mm Forsaken 30 x 30mm Chaos Ogres 40 x 40mm Chaos Trolls 40 x 40mm Chaos Spawn 50 x 50mm Chaos Knights 30 x 60mm Chosen Chaos Knights 30 x 60mm Marauder Horsemen 30 x 60mm Chaos Warhounds 25 x 50mm Chaos Warhound Handler 30 x 30mm Chaos Chariots 60 x 100mm Gorebeast Chariots 60 x 100mm Manticore 60 x 100mm Chaos Dragon 60 x 100mm Chimera 60 x 100mm Hellcannon 100 x 150mm Warriors of Chaos Mounts Chaos Steed 30 x 60mm Daemonic Mount 40 x 60mm/50 x 75mm The Empire of Man Commanders of the Empire 25 x 25mm Empire Wizards 25 x 25mm Witch hunters 25 x 25mm Warrior Priests Of Sigmar 25 x 25mm Priests Of Ulric 25 x 25mm Engineers 25 x 25mm Empire State Troops 25 x 25mm State Missile Troops (Crossbowmen/Handgunners) 25 x 25mm Free Company Militia 25 x 25mm Empire Greatswords 25 x 25mm Flagellants 25 x 25mm Pistoliers 30 x 60mm Outriders 30 x 60mm Empire Knights 30 x 60mm Inner Circle Knights 30 x 60mm Demigryph Knights 50 x 75mm War Altar of Sigmar 60 x 100mm Empire Steam Tank 60 x 100mm Griffons 60 x 100mm Great Cannon 50 x 75mm Mortars 50 x 75mm Helblaster Volley Guns 50 x 75mm Helstorm Rocket Batteries 50 x 75mm Empire Mounts Barded Warhorse 30 x 60mm Empire Warhorse 30 x 60mm Pegasus 40 x 60mm Demigryph 50 x 75mm

Facebook, i even included a link in the first post about em

Also.. More Excitingly than some Foot knights, in the Facebook comment thread for todays article they are finally confirming base sizes for things! They are adding to the list so do check the original source https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTheOldWorld We've been getting some questions about base sizes, so here's a log of the ones we've answered: All Orc infantry 30s The best units in the game (Goblins) 25s Squigs Herds and Hoppers 25s Giant Cave Squig character mounts are on 50s Manglers Squigs on 50x75s Trolls 40s Standard ogres 40s Gnoblars 25s Ogre Lords 40s, Butchers are 40s, but 50x100 with their cauldron, Hunters are 50s, Maneaters are 40s Yheties are 40s Gorgers are 50s. Gors 25s Bestigors 30s Beastman Lords/Shamans 25s or 30s All Minotaurs 50s Ghorgon/Cygor 60x100 Brettonian Pegasi. Mounts: Barded pegasus 40 x 60, Royal pegasus 50x50. Pegasus knights 40x60s Demigryphs 50 x 75s Chaos Knights/Chosen Knights/Marauder Horsemen 30x60s All Chaos warrior infantry 30s Chaos Marauders 25s All Dwarf infantry 25s Shield Bearer Mount 50 Gyrocopters 50s Bolt thrower/cannon/organ gun 50s Flame Cannon/Grudgethrower 50x75s Wild Riders/Sisters of the Thorn/Glade Riders 30x60 Dryads and Branchwraiths 30s Treekin 50s Treemen 50 x 50 mm (min), 50 x 75 mm (max) Warhawk Riders 50s Giant Eagles 50s Forest Dragons 60x100

I think Bretonnia and Norsca both changed not just to be grimdark (Where i dont think Warhammer ever reached the grimderp that 40k has plumbed at times) but also to move away from just being France*/Scandinavia, in the same way they expanded the engineers and wizards in the Empire to move away from being a Landsknecht army. Not coincidentally make them harder to do with historicals at the same time ofc, something that was a lot more successful with Empire than Brets i think? *Arguably more Burgundy?

Wasnt the Liber Necris a specifically in universe book with unreliable narrator like the Liber Chaotica though? Its been a long time since i read it and not much has stayed But in that case its not so much that its been superseded as much as the history and detail of necromancy being esoteric and closely guarded by murderous (and frequently insane) people, inaccuracy is always going to creep into secondary sources in universe.

Yeah WIghts and mummies are similar, but in the way that like dogs and cats are, its very superficial. They might be similar magics but wights and mummies are pretty different creatures with different abilities other than being the lowest kinds of mostly sentient undead, you could say similar things on some level about wraiths too, at least on the magical front, though obviously their bodies are gone

Perhaps the reason the Bretonnians are so heavily focused is someone thinks they can angle them into the "Space marine headspace" and reap the sales, it is a bit odd now you mention it how little we really have about the Tomb kings relatively. And yeah, the Liche priests are responsible for how things shook out somewhat, why mummies are different to skellies for example, and their ranks did include Nagash for a long while, but the Nekherans returning to unlife is all Nagash ultimately.

I suspect we might see some of the old starters down the line, but the only way Brets and TK succeed is being the only game in town, so they want to give them a little room to get some extra people invested before they release the popular factions like HIgh elves.

The Necrosphinx is amazeballs, im honestly surprised they canned it with the rest originally.

Quick answer before i break down "defensive" but the good v evil stupidity is a key symptom of it, i had written it off as yet another weird need to justify why they grouped forces like they did, becuase they could have just called them "Defenders and Invaders" and it wouldnt have gotten peoples backs up, but now theyve doubled down on their ****** weak reasoning for some reason in this article rather than moving on. Like, the Bretonnians are vastly more evil than the tomb kings (who are lets remember all victims of Nagash, not skeletons by choice) in how they treat their people and the Wood elves slaughter almost anyone foolish enough to come near them, mess with the Bretonnians religion and sometimes just ride out to do a bunch of murders for lols. And thats just the low hanging fruit! The Border Princes all build their castles on generations of corpses

Thats a pretty weak start to the round tables, verrrrry defensive rather than informative, id probably respect them more if they just said, "Yeah we made changes, suck it up nerds" and got on with discussing things they are actually enthusiastic about.

I suspect we will see another wave of epic minis first, then back to Old world? It might be next week on on the 21st thpugh.

Ech, metal needs a lot more work cleaning and pinning, a solid varnish coat to stop chipping and needs to be kept seperately lest you face the old death ball and open your case to find an army of shattered plastic and chipped metals! A sod to convert and kitbash with too in white metals case, I miss the old poisonous lead I guess once you deal with all that they're heavy in hand at least...

Yeah the intense focus on Brets and a side order of TK isnt doing it for most of my group either, with long experience of Specialist games approach, last time we talked about it everyone was just planning to wait until they finish releasing it to bother. Ive got a bit more of the keen bug, but you cant buy the armies i want so ive indulged my long urge to get a landsknecht army and im painting them up as marienburgers, i can always potentially reinforce them with my Stirlanders who all got rebased to round a while back if i need to

Sooo wishlisting for my factions in the 9 supported armies, working on a caveat that everyone gets a BSB and resin releases are so random ill only mention ones i have an interesting idea for. Dwarves Unit: Slayers! For the obvious reasons above really, theyve never made more than a couple of characters in plastic, they are an iconic difference in the Old world and always popular, especially if we get a Karadin/Slayer list too. License to print money. Centrepiece: The cancelled tank model, run it as a rare or a character mount for engineers? Dwarves always suffered from not liking monsters and all their big models being super rare or unique. Just bring in the ringer Side bits: A new Anvil of doom would indeed be great, id look at a BSB on oathstone to change things up a bit. Empire Unit: Knights! Core to the faction and fugly as hell. Hopefully we dodge the TKls curse and replace these You could include some Reiksguard/White wolf/Sons of Manaan bits for each side in the civil war maybe? Id love panthers and Blazing suns too but only so much frame! Centrepiece: Wizard on Pegasus, maybe dual kit in a Hero too but honestly either kinda works, you still have a Solid Griffon model thats the iconic monster of the faction. Side bits: Definitely hedge wizards, do some super characterful resin characters. Consider a priest of Ulric and/or Manaan for civil war purposes, do a MTO run of the Cult of Ulric range and laugh all the way to the bank. Wood elves Unit: Wardancers! The metals were always great but you can do so much more with plastic and a bigger base, gonna do some FLIPS Centrepiece: Forest dragon would be the obvious choice, definitely a lord like the OG metal one but consider a wizard? I did one with a stag skull mask and she was awesome. Possibly the twins? I have no idea when they were born. Side bits: Tough soil for resin as the old metals were such great sculpts outside of the obligatory banner. Warriors of Chaos Unit: Go real subversive and update the Marauders, itll be hilarious. Otherwise they have great coverage really. Centrepiece: So many cool monsters! Ultimately you could do so much cool stuff with a plastic Chaos Dragon though and dual kit the possessed one and a ridden version. I have thoughts for half the sidelined forces too but they are sadly years away.

Not sure why you are derailing the thread tilting at windmills @Hollow but we do know a couple of things for certain. 1. From the annual report the box exceeded sales numbers of the previous editions 2. It was on sale with steep discounts all over the place including GW itself who almost never do this. 3. Despite both of those things you can still get new copies. Its not really a leap to say they made too many is it? But yeah, start your own topic if you want to soapbox about it for some reason. Oh and as a former LGS owner, albeit maaaany years ago now, GW both sent us free stuff and sent us stuff (at a discount) we didnt order they assured us would sell, which to be fair, it did lol. Im sure things have shifted over the years but im also sure the possibility is still there. Oh yeah but thats not been unusual, all the previous 30k boxes had a similar problem, though they were all technically boardgames with sought after minis in them

Thats them having a weird internal labelling though, (and some weird elitism leaking out as you mention) those are both starter boxes because they are set up to start you on the system, the only difference between those and the various core system starters is scale and the latter having a better quick start setup guide. The Old World boxes are an army box with a rulebook added, something we have seen time and time again from GW as a splash release, the only real difference being they are one sided.

It certainly used to, but The Old World team didnt want them to be so *poof*. But they had a full line up of generic units for a few editions on top of the regiments of renown so they were just as much of a faction as anyone else. I suspect from the little we have seen the Mercenaries in ToW will be a list of units you can take from other faction lists, possibly with some small changes. So a Border Prince Bombard will be an Empire great cannon (see Empire list) which at least gives us a tiny benefit to slapping all the core lists in one book.

Dogs of War also lacked any releases in 8th afaik? They were using a compendium list from 7th (Or possibly 6th?) the whole time.

They are very specific about them not being starter boxes, more like the 40k/AoS splash boxes i suspect than the AoD and Epic boxes which specifically are starters. They didnt include the rulebook in the recent Mk3 splash box did they? Essentially if you do want these boxes, i wouldnt hang around.

I can't imagine these starter boxes will stay in production forever, it's a lot of boxes once the other factions get released taking up inventory and I think these two in particular really rely on a lack of competition to look good.

Just... No interest in buying any of their launch content first hand at this point unless the forces of good/evil (cringe) books are priced to move. I'll get the rulebook second hand easily enough. Will see what comes up when they get around to Empire/Dwarves/Chaos warriors unless the Skaven get fun rules. Splitting the army books between a bulky compilation and a second pricy book is really annoying though, can't lie. Oh and seems like they aren't guaranteeing the pdf lists on release either, hopefully they'll be quicker than 30k!

There is absolutely no way the leaks changed the previews, the marketing team isn't working Christmas day. I'd be surprised if anyone was working at hq at all today