Malakree
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Posts posted by Malakree
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30 minutes ago, Beliman said:
We need some type of battletrait that affects Hobgrots. Without any synergy, we are just comparing raw stats with an allied unit.
Maybe a battletactic.
"Pick two friendly hobgrot units on the battlefield. You complete this battletactic if both units run and shoot this turn."
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3 hours ago, Grugg said:
I've seen a few pictures of people allying in large blocks of gits shootas or stabbas.
What's the logic behind this? What role do they fill that hobgrotz don't for example?
Thanks
Hobgrots are 80 points for 10 wounds and 10 models. Stabbas are 120 points for 20 wounds and models meaning that they are more efficient per wound.
Stabbas also get
- Netters in the unit, which make enemy units within 1" of the stabbas -1 to hit.
- A 5+ save instead of a 6+ save
- Drummer is +1 to run rolls rather than run and shoot so they move faster
- Icon is +1 save vs missile weapons instead of reroll battleshock
So overall as a chaff unit netters have a higher wound efficiency and are faster/tankier than hobgrots.
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20 minutes ago, RoyalDachshund said:
Hija ladz,
recently I was given Maw-Krusha as a gift to celebrate me being even older ******.
Issue is, I had not played AoS since the dark times of first edition, and no longer have any models - but, given the model is so cool, I've figured that making a 1000 points army won't be a bad idea.
Is a list with Krusha in 1000 points valid? I was hoping for some Kruelboyz mixing to avoid pure Ironjawz (I dislike the Aardboyz models).We have recently had another pretty huge points drop. The fact Gordrakk is down to 460 (compared to the 450 for the normal) is really nice for mixed BW armies since you get his ability to use command abilities 3 times targets destruction units not Ironjawz. Brutes are solid right now due to the points decreases. Not sure about the rest of the Kruelboyz units since at 2k I run 1250 points of heroes and can't afford to bring them.
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4 hours ago, Grugg said:
Gobsprakk seems really strong, just a high cost investment initially which is a pain.
If you can pick up a swamp lurkers boxed set that will help massively. Its gobby, a sludgeraker, 3 boltboyz and 10 gutripperz.
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1 hour ago, Bobberto said:
So with the update to Coherency, reinforced MSU3 units no longer have to be in range of two of their squadmates. As size 3 unit with a relatively large base, this is a welcome change for Gore-Gruntas.
Previously, as someone who only actually owns six (for now...), for me it was always a no-brainer to run two min-size units if I was running them all. Making the coherency work while getting them all into combat was a pain. Now that they can all just stand in a line, I have a question for all of you Bloodtoofs players out there (and anyone else who was reinforcing them): is taking a single unit of six actually better than two units of three? Given how big they are, it feels like they'll struggle to all get into combat anyway, and with their mobility it feels like two smaller units will be more flexible while still being able to group up if a specific place needs to be smashed hard.
This change is enormous for GG's and was specifically aimed at them (plus a few others), I actually remember complaining about how it should be 6 to the lead dev at Warhammerfest
(he was the head judge).
What you need to realise is that a unit of 6gg's and a unit of 3 actually two very different roles. At 3 they function as medium cavalry, avoid enemies big hammer units while trying to get on objectives/backline units/support heroes, a single casulty cuts their damage output by 1/3rd and it's not really worth putting a warchanter buff on them. At 6 they are shock cavalry, they can and will chew through important enemy units. You definitely want to put a warchanter buff on the 6s and they absolutely demolish stuff.
So the question you need to ask yourself, do you want two units of medium cavalry or one unit of shock cavalry. Really depends on how you use them.
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6 hours ago, Smash said:
Big waagh will be so good now, mostly because the battle tactics are so good.
What do you guys think about maw krusha now? I did actually not include it before in my big waagh lists since i preferred having more stuff. But a 30 point drop is quite significant 🤔
And Big Grikks Kruelshots? Still think it is kinda nice to use in Big waaagh, but lost some value now since killabow also dropped without adjusting cost for the renown regiment. And having 3 more kruelboyz units actually make our new BT harder. Third argument against it is I feel like I want the hero slot for the new magic battalion 🤔 But if you want kruelboyz shooting it is nice value with the possible extra shots and slump change of points.
SpoilerAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy: Waaagh!
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Aspect of the Champion: Tunnel Master
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (500)
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (260)
Orruk Warchanter (120)
Orruk Warchanter (120)
Wurrgog Prophet (170)
Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (300)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Brutes (150)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Ardboys (80)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (80)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (80)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 135
Drops: 11That's what I've been running, tunnel master is there to score the grand strat on turn 5. I'll be swapping the Footboss with a Gnashtoof. Only thing I'm worried about is only having 1 locus, if need be I'll revert back to arcane tome on a warchanter. Though as I said above, this leaves me with 110 points of float. The list was already pretty solid, add in the 2 new tactics, ability to score the Kruelboyz General one and another unit it's looking great.
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I'll be honest, I saw the new changes and thought it couldn't get any better. Then I found the points changes. My list dropped by a 90 points, 110 when I include swapping the footboss with a killaboss on gnashtoof.
I basically get a killbow for free with 30 points for a triumph.
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17 hours ago, Gitzdee said:
For casual play its easy to build an all Troggoth list. Could also ally the 2 Kruleboyz Troggoths or use Mollogs mob from Underworlds if u want some more options.
There is also the rumour about a new big Troggoth model for Gitz.
This is definitely worth highlighting. The difference between competitive tournament play/list building and casual play is huge. List building can even vary wildly between "casual just for fun" tournaments and serious competitive tournaments.
EDIT: There are two clubs near me, one is my club and its members regularly go to tournaments. The other is a more generic local board/card gaming club. If I were to go to the "local" club and take my tournament list nobody would want to play me. The list is to domineering and they just want to play with their toys.
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1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:
What do stabbas and gobbapalooza add to a trogg list for tournament play? Dont really understand :).
Gobbapalooza gives a bunch of buffs and provides 2 unbinds. The extra rend especially is horrendous if you combine it with the fellwaters no positive save buffs. You get dankhold troggs to -4 rend and the opponent can't get +save, almost every unit in the game now has no save.
The stabbas are a classic screen, you sit the troggs 2.5" behind them, this means anything which charges the stabbas brings the troggs into combat but can't attack them till after they activate unless they have a 3" range. It's a way to ensure your opponent doesn't get to decimate your big expensive trogg unit before they get to attack.
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3 hours ago, Ulfast said:
Because of economics I actually had to stop collecting an army of trolls but I´m thinking to restart again. But is it possibly in the new armybook to play an all troll army?
At warhammerfest a while ago the best performing gloomspite list had 18 rockguts. I want to say there were 2 others in the top 16, all had 15+ rockguts and a dankhold the other had 2 man dankhold squad. Was insane the damage output they had.
You do need at least 1 unit of 20 stabbas and a gobbapoluza, I think 2 of them were running a unit of sporesplattas. Essentially it was a trogg list with the gobo support stuff.
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37 minutes ago, Sabush said:
Nicely done!
One question. What does CA stand for?
Command Ability. A normal maw-krusha is 3 Ironjawz units, gordrakk is 3 Destruction units.
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So played at the warhammerfest AoS 8 game tournament last weeked. Same list just swapped the arcane tome for a tuskhelm on the get em beat wc. Finished 11th with a 3 major wins, a minor win, a draw and 3 losses. Of the losses only the one against lumineth was completely unwinnable, they remain a hard counter.
Gordrakk continued to out perform my expectations. The fact you can CA the bonesplitterz/kruelboyz is a really nice tool to have and the flat extra damage has been key at some points.
Gobsprakk remains mvp, the level of utility and threat he grants is insane. Ward stripping, reducing attacks, he killed 2 heroes and contributed to 2/3 more. Not to mention the number of spells my opponents would just decide to not risk casting.
The army is so tech heavy it's unreal and makes it really complicated to play. That said outside of a few specific matchups it can beat top teir armies.
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Quote
Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy: Waaagh!
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (500)
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (260)
Wurrgog Prophet (170)
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Orruk Warchanter (120)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (120)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Skilled Leader
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm (Galletian Champion)
- Aspect of the Champion: Tunnel Master
Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (300)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Brutes (150)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Ardboys (80)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (80)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (80)
Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord
***Galletian Veterans
Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 135
Drops: 11This is what I've used in my two tournaments over the past month. Went 4-1 in the first and 3-1-1 in the second. Sadly I think the new battlescroll, which they just released, stops you taking hand of gork with an arcane tome warchanter is pretty a large nerf. Not sure how I'd get access to hand of gork anymore because the weirdnob is just awful and all the hero slots are mandatory at this point.
I think swapping Gordrakk for a standard MK and the 5 brutes for 2 units of ardboys is probably the correct choice, especially now that third artefact is available to put a wardsave on them. I'm really using him mainly because it means I have both the Fist of Gork and the Mouth of Mork.
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@Ganigumo I've been playing a more IJ focused big waaagh but with gobsprakk, he's been utterly amazing with the +1 to cast/unbind, the threat of the unbind mortals is brutal and because he knows the entire lore of the swamp you can do some dirty things with him. Last weekend I managed to use sneaky miasma to move him within range to nasty hex a block of 15 hearthguard, absolutely ruined them.
I'd also say that you need a warchanter for the waaagh! points, especially as you don't have a lot of stuff to charge early with. Give him an arcane tome for the hand of gork then take fixin beat on him. Note that fixin beat just says orruk it doesn't require IJ, super good when paired with the wurrgog.
Personally I'd swap out the jawz, weirdnob and gut ripperz for 2 more units of 5 ardboys and a warchanter.
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On 3/8/2023 at 3:40 AM, Ravinsild said:
How do we feel about new mercenary of renown band for Ironjawz?
Ask yourself whether you'd rather have 10 brutes(300 points), the regiment of the renown(310 points) or 6 goregruntas(340 points). I'd say they are bad for a Bloodtoofs list and ok in a Big Waaagh list. IMO any IJ list which isn't bloodtoofs should just be big waaagh instead so...
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2 hours ago, Gitzdee said:
What do you all think is better or a more solid 1000 points list? All Troggs or Troggs + support or Troggs + dogs?
I've always been of the opinion that troggs need at least some support. The teleport for example is an enormous boon just for the threat, even if you never use it.
Also skraggy is amazing right now, can't go wrong with him.
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15 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:
Skragrott is horrendously undercosted. as are quite a few things in the book, like how did grots go down when the book is so much better if the old book had those points they might not've been so bad. Skragrott is definitely auto include at 160 points though.
Power creep is a real thing, troggs are 160 points and Brutes just got moved down to 150 because they were overcosted at 160. Even with the lowered price grots still would have been bad at the old points.
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35 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:
pretty sure its the same, I missed that ruling. When it came to the gargant artefact they gave the gargant the wizard keyword but only to cast endless spells.
I can see that getting an FAQ
35 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:When it comes to fellwaters I think you want to give them the snuffler buff though, 4+/5++/-1 to hit, should be a tough profile to shift. I think its something like 32 effective wounds before save buffs or the -1 to hit for 3 of them.
Then prio for it is probably 9 fel > 2 dank > 9 rock > 6 fel > 6 rock > 1 dank. If you only get the ward then obv the rockguts would never get it.
35 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:the +1 to hit is pretty much the same for both, its always a 16.67% increase.
Rockguts do get a bigger increase out of a bonus attack than the dankhold does, but because the dankhold's base damage is higher he'll still do more damage until you get up to +3 attacks.So snufflers + troggboss + sporesplattaz is the point at which 6 rockguts overtake 2 danks 🤣
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2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:
Same number of reinforcements so 1 vs 3, 2 vs 6
So basically if it isnt a block of 9 rockguts you should be buffing the dankhold. Wait are we talking +1 attack or +1 hit/attack. I'd have thought a flat +1 attack on rockguts (ie. +3 total) would have been better than +1 on a dankhold.
It does raise the intresting point that sneaky snufflers on a unit of 2 dankholds is almost always better than on 6/9 rockguts purely because of the 5+ ward being useless on the rockguts. I'm assuming that fellwaters are just worse for melee buffs.
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7 hours ago, Ganigumo said:
damage per point for rockguts vs 4+:
6.67/160=0.041 damage per pointDamage per point for danks vs 4+:
9.26/180=0.051 damage per point.
At 2 extra attacks rockguts become more efficient damagewise per point, but they don't outdamage a comparably sized unit of dankholds until you get 3 bonus attacks.
Each extra attack gives rockguts a 50% increase in damage (50% more attacks) and dankholds a 25% increase (25% more attacks), but the damage difference is big enough that its better to buff a comparably sized dankhold unit if you have it around.
I think moon is almost auto include? Just to turn the moon on more consistently, especially if you're troggs since you get it for free with loonskin
What do you mean by comparably sized, 2 vs 6?
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@Ganigumo few questions
Whats the unbuffed damage per point between rockguts and dankholds Whats the damage scaling per bonus attack applied to both of them?
Specifically because sporesplattaz no longer have the moonclan keyword requirement so they can be used to give +1 attack aswell. Same with sneaky snufflers.
Worth pointing out that sneaky snufflers don't required you to pick a target until after you've rolled. This means if you only get the 5+ ward you just dont put it on rockguts.
What are peoples opinions on taking malevolent moon instead of the shroom. It's basically a flaming head which doesnt dispel itself, doesnt do friendly fire and also has an aura for +1 save while wholly within 12.
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54 minutes ago, Aelfric said:
Given that the Dankhold Troggoth now has 4 attacks with damage 3+D3 wounding on 2s and the the Trogboss 4 attacks damage D6 wounding on 3s, I'm beginning to think that they are going to be more reliable than the Boss. In units of 2, they can be buffed by Snufflers or Gobbapalloza or CAs more efficiently and even have a (albeit 1 in 6) chance of rallying. Yes, the Boss has 2 more wounds and better regeneration, but its damage is still so swingy and we've lost the reroll trait to boot. With Galatian Heroes, I can have cheap heroes with every Trogg unit fairly easily.
I'd appreciate thoughts, since the book hasn't even been released yet and I may be jumping the gun.
Thanks.
I feel like the troggoths got a massive boost especially since if you take one of each your troggboss gets the artefact for free.
Ironically I'd say its more important the troggboss survives than deals damage because the +1 hit/attack is so good on troggs because they have high impact low volume attacks.
Not to mention that loonskin is worth a minimum of 80 points depending on which endless spell you pick. So your troggboss general is actually only ~120 points.
Lastly the troggboss heroic action has so nice potential for ****** with people if used properly.
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Soooo...if with sporesplattaz, gobbapalozza, troggboss and sneaky snufflers the rockgut weapon profile would be
5 attacks - 2+/3+/-3/3
30 attacks from a unit of 6, sign me up.
EDIT: Does anyone know if the limited edition is available somewhere other than the webstore?
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39 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:
Skragrott should be able to plant mushrooms into enemy heads and make them do things. I hope that's a thing we get! And also control the moon phases too, but not having to be the general to do it (as I recall that's a stipulation currently).
He should just get a "always general" trait. Then let the debuff from his handcannon stack...oh man
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(he was the head judge).
Ironjawz Only?
in Destruction
Posted
Right now we are waiting for 4th edition to drop which will come with complete rules rewrites for everything in the game, so saying anything about strength or even future play style is impossible right now.