angrycontra

Oh I see. Well no wonder I didn't see that interaction 'cause I would've thought that to be total bulldung. Well faq is 100% fix that or gw has truly lost its marbles.

While I agree changehost/horrors/flamers needs nerf (and sooner rather than later) however I don't really understand what this nonsense is about horrors being immune to bshock. That roll of 1 making them immune (plus res) ONLY applies to unit when pink horror icon bearer is alive. I don't disagree that doing 50-100 wounds to a unit with -1 to hit is going to be hard, but 10-20 pinks should literally die in 1 combat/shooting phase (and you must always allocate wounds to pinks first) and succesfully killing any heroes near them will remove the whole -1 as well (not to mention bshock immunity through commands).

Here's something that has been bothering me lately: can spellcasters cast spells even if there are no eligible targets for it? As far as I know, no rules directly prevent this and many spells have wording "if successful pick enemy blaa" meaning that you wouldn't necessarily need any targets before casting the spell. Tzeentch needs to cast spells to get those fate points and most spells require target so it would be nice if you could cast spells on ground basically just for the points.

What I would like is that they keep subfactions but make command traits/artifacts optional. However I think all subfactions should be designed like flesh eater courts. In Fec, choosing subfaction means you lose delusions which means that there is extra penalty for taking subfaction. As for balance well gw should never release stuff like petrifex elite in the first place (also good example on why c. Traits/artifacts don't really help on balance when you get good ones on the subfaction).

I'm gonna list my personal favorites and least favorites. Any book not listed is somewhere in the middle. Best (in order of release) Nurgle - Lots of fun options and synergies. Sure it was released bit too early (lack of wholly within and unmodified rolls) but overall when it was released it was easily the best btome released up to that point and over the years the point and other errata fixes have improved the book. Gloomspite - Like some others here have said, aos would be near perfect if every tome was designed with the same mindset as this tome. Inner balance is great, nothing too weak or too broken, fun allegiance power (even though it is rather underwhelming at times), great battleline and battalion options. Flesh eater courts - This book has its issues (and gristlegore was broken at launch) and FEC need more models but overall it is great battletome. Inner balance is overall pretty good and lots of battalions to choose from. I also like how there is actually small punishment for taking grand court (losing delusions in addition to c.trait and artifacts) something I wish became a norm with these subfactions. Fyreslayers - apart from the still underpriced Hgb and maybe the fact that Hermdar lodge is a bit too good I genuinely think that this tome is great. Every unit has some purpose, number of options is surprisingly great for a faction with so few models. I actually feel sad for all the super competetive players out there who can't see anything that Hgb spam, to me they are missing all the fun that comes with this book (really hope gw at least remove that ridiculous mass bonus from hgb in the future.) Orruk warclans - other than grossly underpriced warchanters, there is little I find to complain here. Lots of viable unit options in mixed lists. Improves both pure bonesplitterz and ironjaws. Great list of spells, battlelines, battalions etc. Love the different clans too, pretty much every clan in the book is viable in some way and thanks to big waagh even clanless faction works. Disciples of tzeentch - Yeah sure, it's probably too early to say this now but looking at the battletome, it's looking great. Many weak underpowered ****** units from previous tome have received significant changes, allegiance power is fun (like the agendas and how they synergize with destiny dice), internal balance seems goodish and the balance of those various cults seems good. And then time for the... Worst (in order of release again) Stormcast eternals - this book is a mess. The internal balance is terrible. Many units are very underwhelming by today's standards. Tons of useless subfactions/battalions. Too many units overlapping and doing same thing with varying degree of success (this is why I don't want to see any mixed duardin tome in the future, I don't trust in Gw's ability to balance that properly). Nighthaunt - Biggest mistake gw did here was giving most units from the faction to legions of nagash which has much better allegiance power. Nighthaunt do have some good stuff in them but the battletome also suffers from having way too many units filling exact same role (reapers, bladegheist, harridans, glavewraiths). I'm not gonna list beast of chaos here, because as underpowered faction as it may be, I find the battletome quite fun plus most of the issues could be fixed in future ghb/errata/new warscroll for gors etc. Skaventide - as someone who loves skaven, I sure hate this book (although less now than before thanks to plague monk warscroll change). The whole fact that there are gazillion ways to make the most cowardly faction in all of aos immune to bshock is just baffling (orruks are much more cowardly now than skaven). Terrain for skaven is awful to transport and its effects on the battlefield are too meh. Inner balance is still poor and battalions are terrible (which means less artifacts to play with). Battleline options are worst of all the factions as they limit your unit choices massively. Slaanesh - Do I even need to state all the problems with this book? The summon mechanic is broken, and it forces slaanesh players to spam heroes and this doesn't even reflect properly in points. Force enemy to fight last is too abusive mechanic and more reasons to just spam keepers. Combine previous mechanic with double pile in command ability and you got one broken faction. I'm sure the recent errata at least somewhat helped to fix this book but in all honesty, I doubt slaanesh will be properly balanced until it gets new book. Cities of sigmar - ok this book technically isn't that bad. There are lot of great ways to build this army and it is very inspiring book to make your own cool themed armies... But... the balance between cities pretty terrible. Just compare best (hallowheart and tempest eye) with the worst (anvilgard and phoenicum) and you know what I mean. Once again too many bad unit options that do same thing. Darkling covens (minus sorcerers and maybe darkshards) are terrible. Battalions city locked and realms are city locked too (and there's only fire and life to choose from). Extremely limited command trait and artifact choices. Ossiarch bonereapers - I just need to say two words: Petrifex elite. This sub faction is the heart and soul of ALL the problems that plague ossiarchs. Now I don't necessarily deny that ossiarchs would be overcosted without PE but if PE didn't exist gw could easily lower their points or give some units (that are not mortek guard) +1 sv by default. Obviously katakros save bonus would also have to go (otherwise his faction would become the new PE). I also dislike bshock immunity being allegiance power, I mean that's just stupid, just remove bshock phase already 'cos so many factions ignore it anyway.

Yeah I don't see the fuss about horrors. Unit of clanrats costs 200p and that's 40 wounds with 5+ sv and nobody is complaining about them. There are powerful killer units out there that can just delete your horrors in one turn. In fact, if you play tzeentch mirror, unit of 6 tzaangor enlightened on discs with the +1 attack on charge (maybe even without it) can super easily delete one horror unit before they get to do anything and they don't even have to go second in combat. And if you're talking about how broken or whatever horrors are in changehost, well that is changehost issue, not horror issue.

This right here. People who think this rule was nerfed, go read the original warscroll. You can easily interpret the rule in both ways that the ability either deals bazillion mortals or it deals just d3 mortals after attacks have been resolved. To me this was clearly just gw clarifying how they originally intended it to work. But before anyone thinks anything, I'm not blaming people for interpreting the rule the way they did (like I said, you can read it both ways), I just think it's good idea to be cool about instead of grabbing pitchforks and torches.

As far as I know (from squinting at blurry video), witchfyre coven no longer grants all the units in battalion double shots but rather only one unit gets it per turn (which would mean that you want at least 1 x 30 man unit of acolytes to max it out).

Man, those kairic acolytes are great now. 4+ 3+ ranged attacks by default (3+ 3+ in pyrofane cult) and +1 to wound rolls on melee and 2 dam with big blades (still kinda terrible in melee but nowhere near the level they used to be) and all this + casting for only 100p for 10. Oh yeah and 5+ sv now. I knew buying 50 of them at launch would one day pay off.

We don't know yet the full extent of their warscroll changes. Maybe they now have 4+ hit with shooting by default. Maybe they can cast other spells than the one in their warscroll. Maybe they have 2 ranged attacks each or 2 melee attacks. This one was just short preview where they showcased the most important change to acolytes. Same with how pink summoning works, they just gave the baseline to how the rule works, we don't know full details yet.

Community team has done this before, where they crop up rules to few sentences and make it look different. We don't yet know whether there'll be extra line in there that restricts it to some specific units. But in all honesty, I am personally fine if this rule is true and works for heroes since tzeentch is really squishy army.

I love the new warscroll. It makes playing plaguemonks gazillion times faster while still keeping them as glass cannon infantry. High saves hurt them but like I said earlier in this thread, so it should. Also as a side note, verminlord corruptor's command ability just became much more useful, since now plague monks with blades don't have hit rerolls by default. Also this also makes censer bearers more useful (not competetive still probably) since they have rend while plague monks don't.

My issue with slaanesh summon changes was that gw didn't into account the fact that it is still much better to summon new heroes as they will generate more dp. I mean look at the big chariot and herald on big chariot, their difference is just 3 lousy dp. Unless you really need something out now (and you are couple points short), there is no reason to ever summon the heraldless chariot. They could have fixed this issue by making these big multiwound heroes more expensive (both points and dp) so that you would have to make hard choice: "hmmm, do I summon this unit that can't generate dp now or wait for at least 1 turn to summon this hero instead" Still, complaints aside, I'm glad they nerfed slaanesh. In general I'm reasonably positive about most of the changes. Even if they won't have massive impact on giving a power boost to underpowered factions, the fact that we get more viable unit options is always a plus in my mind.

Nvm, I miscalculated the points myself (forgot that their min size is 5) but still 40p cheaper, not 160

I have two primary hopes for plaguemonk changes: 1) Remove staffs as weapon option. All plague monks should be dual wielders regardless whether they are wielding staffs or knifes. Having two seperate weapon profiles on multiattack horde unit is idiotic. This makes using them much faster (sure corruptors command ability will be bad too then, but eh it wasn't that great to begin with) 2) give them just one banner and one musician. I personally think that both the damage banner and rend bell should be gone. Why these two? Because plague monks are still incredible damage dealers without them and they should not be this universal super unit that can do well against heavy armored opponents too. Also these 2 slow the game down to crawl because any time you got to look for those 6s, it takes away many minutes of precious game time.

I like the overall changes but man, those Varanguard are horrible. Their average dam/pts is on the same level as chaos warriors (which is rather terrible) but with half of the chaos warrior's survivability. I don't know chaos knight points, but assuming they cost less than 200, I see no point ever paying 300 for 3 varanguard. Even the possible book buffs don't convince me varanguatdrd can be saved because you can already get units of 10 chaos knights with full hit, wound and save rerolls through chaos sorcerers (not to mention +1 to hit from mounted lord command ability and some chaos aura bonus). It doesn't help that varanguard are worse with no archaon in the army (who is already a massive point sink).

I'm interested in this but only if it has been designed with round bases in mind. It would be pretty ludicrous of gw to release a game that needs square bases after working so hard to make most of those old boxes round based. Not only that, but it would put some players in a real pickle: "Do I rebase my old army again back to squares or do I keep my aos army?". Movement tray stuff would certainly work. Also I am somewhat concerned over the rules of this game. Say what you want about whfb, that rule set had some real problems. I think it would be stupid to ignore all advancements aos did. Not saying though that it should be aos clone, I just don't want it to be fantasy 6/7/8th/whatever ed. Clone or 9th age clone either.

Yeah I'm gonna say gloomspite gitz too. The poorly designed allegiance ability aside, everything just works in that book, the battalions, battleline options, inner balance, (almost) nothing is too broken or too weak, solid selection of artifacts etc. It's just fun to design armies with that book. Flesh eaters are also great, minus the gristlegore imbalance. If I had to pick worst, I'd pick skaven. Battalions carbage, unnecessarily complicated allegiance ability, doesn't play well to skaven lore (for some reason cowardly skaven have access to easy armywide bshock immunity), really bad inner balance (plague monks >>>>> everything else), very few obvious weaknesses, army building options massively limited due to terrible battleline system, some warscrolls are well written but whoever wrote plague monk warscroll should be shelved this instant (seriously, can have easy 7 attacks, with seperate weapons, seperate unmod. Hit 6 / wound 6 effects, they are the slowest unit to play in the entire game). Add to all this terrible clunky terrain. No book has made me as angry as skaven book, by far my biggest disappointment with aos.

You forgot seraphon. They still need a battletome.

I wouldn't be surprised if that new SC set ends up being the highest selling SC GW has ever made. First of all, it's packed with cool models and all of them are brand new (making people buy these boxes in bulk), secondly, every khorne, tzeentch, slaanesh and nurgle players (especially tzeentch and slaanesh) may want this set to add as part of their army and on top of that, those who want pure StD armies are gonna spam this box. It's also very nice spammable box. I'm personally already planning on getting two for my tzeentch army (don't care for pure std). I also want that cool cat. I don't care if it can't be used by tzeentch directly, I'll squeeze it as ally or convert it.

This still doesn't clarify what happens in the case where terrain has already been setup (such as tournaments or cool special tables in stores etc.). Now don't get me wrong, I would totally allow the other player place his nexus after terrain setup, but we've all seen these RAW people. Some people will have a field day over arguing this terrain and it's placement. I don't know how uk/us/whatever tournaments work but every tournament I've been to, tables and terrain have been setup before any matches have been arranged. Following RAW ruling, this terrain cannot be placed if the there are any terrain on the table (discounting other army terrain).

I don't have the exact rules at my hand now (and I may have misread something) but from what I gather it works like this: Before battle begins and before sides are picked, during the terrain setup phase ossiarch player can put this terrain INSTEAD of normal terrain piece (I believe it had to be 3" from other terrain and 6" from objectives or vice versa). Now as you may remember, officially in the rules, gw assumes that players each take turns to place terrain on board which is randomly rolled with a dice. The idea is that instead of rolling (or choosing traditional terrain) you can put the ossiarch terrain on table. And this creates real problem if it's not faqed (unless I've misinterpreted the rule): I have never played a single game, where players use this gw terrain placement phase rule. All the tournaments I've been to have pre-built tables. According the current ruling, you CAN'T place ossiarch terrain, unless both players agree on it or you play using official terrain rules (and rule that requires random person you've never met agree on something like this never end up well)

I'd say main reason to take butcher is that subfaction where your wizards can cast extra spells, because you need as many different spells as you can get and butcher's maw spell is miles better than slaughtermaster's spell.

While I do like those bonereapers subfactions I can't shake off the concern I have for them. +1 save for whole army is ridiculous power. It's so good that no other temple/enclave/stormhost/lodge/etc. Comes even close that bonus and it doesn't appear to have even any drawbacks (and no, bad c. Ability, c. Trait or artefact are not enough for drawbacks for this ability) which is kinda funny when looking at ivory host that sacrifices 1 save for that hit bonus. Now I'm not screaming overpowered just yet (and there are other good subfactions too, like the spell protection and exploding skeletons) but my concern is this: if gw have not properly playtested this faction with strong subfaction always on (assuming these guys don't have command traits equivalent to army wide save bonus, 'cause you know, that trait would have to be ridiculous) and deemed it balanced without one, then this army is likely the most grossly overtuned army to date. But we'll see when the full book is out with points and all.

My problem with hallowheart is same as my problem with nagash: it's not that they're necessarily op but they are simply incredibly unfun to play against. Your magic is carbage against them and you can't do ****** against their magic. There is literally no real interaction when it's their hero phase, you just watch as magic flies and kills anyone with no magic/mortal wound protection.