Tidings

Wow I missed that somehow, thanks for pointing that out!

Because he's dirt cheap, can dispel lifeswarm with +2, can unbind enemy magic with +2, and is a 3rd hero with for some scenarios is really important. 2 isn't enough. On top of that, he can give the gyro bonus to rend. In TE it's really easy for even a lone Gyro to get a nice shooting phase off on the first turn and be in the way - but that's just something to do in certain situations. EDIT: I was wrong, the Runelord can't use his prayer on a Gyro! Sad days. Still, I think the previous reasons are enough to make a case for him.

I've been writing Ironclad lists, here's probably my favorite so far that I'll test on Saturday. Phoenix and PG are the main combat body that play in the most dangerous spot. Handgunners and Gyro tag objectives either separately, or as one element with the Hurricanum. Ironclad carries Arka Co and, if possible, stays near the Hurricanum for as many shooting phases as possible. In later turns, Gyro will speed off to tag objectives and Ironclad will dump Arka Co on an objective. Hurricanum casts Lifeswarm for Ironclad/Phoenix/PG as necessary, next turn Runelord dispels it and Hurricanum recasts it.

Sure, but it's another thing that they have to deploy and position around until you drop it. The more problems you can add for your opponent, the better. Another Gunhauler doesn't add anything more for them to consider. It's not THAT short. You land 9" away and drop the first part 4" into their army. The other two corners go 7" more, meaning he needs to screen a full 12" to be safe from the immediate effect, then he still has go all the way around it. You don't have to use it right away either, so even just holding it on the first turn can be good since now he has to worry about screening all the way through till turn 2. Now you can drop it on the objective he's decided to prioritize. How can it be easily countered? It literally can not be stopped when you use it, screening it is a pain, and it needs a 9+ to unbind. That's not EASY except for a couple very specific lists. Yes it affects you too, but as long as you choose where to use it well, it should literally never be an issue for you. Drop it where they are deployed, or on an objective you don't care about until the later part of the game. If it forces him off an objective, you can drop a Gunhauler on it and happily take his objective at the cost of a few mortals (that you will easily repair).

Warp Lightning Vortex immediately wrecks your opponent's plans just by existing. There's nothing they can do to stop it, so they have to either deploy completely differently than they want, or take the first turn to spread out, or suffer the insane damage and movement penalties. That's so much more value than a single Gunhauler, of which you should already have 1 or 2. You're not adding anything new to your list with +1 Gunhauler, and the damage output from 1 over the course of a game is still less than a well-used Warp Lightning Vortex.

Thanks a lot! Glad you like it. If you are talking about the red leaves on the base, I think those are the "orange" leaf scatter from Greenstuffworld. I've made a blend of leaf scatter from Basecrafts (the autumn kit) and Greenstuffworld (plain leaves and orange leaves). I also use some "autumn scatter" from Basecrafts to make some areas a stronger reddish brown. When I get home tonight I'll double check the lids of the pots to see if I forgot something.

I've got a Tempest's Eye army (or sometimes Hallowheart) that is my desperate attempt to keep the old Wood Elf / Wanderer aesthetic alive. It's a mix of basic conversions and reasonable proxies. Here's my Hurricanum that I finally got around to finishing today. I built it several years ago lol

Just my opinion, but KO should be a better shooting army than Tzeentch. Tzeentch is a faction that gets to be the best at trickey shenanigans and magic. We have literally no magic, and the only trickery we have is teleporting at the predictable and screenable 9" mark. KO's whole theme is GUNS. And Tzeentch does that better than us too. #alittlesaltybutstillloveKO

Possibly some people thought it was a way to get around the restrictions of putting an artifact on a named hero? Not that we have any real selection of named heroes, but still... who knows.

I think everything you said is fair, and I agree. I don't want to be busted, but I want to be a bit more than barely relevant. Sad that there wasn't even a single KO army placing top three in any of the last slew of tournaments. Happy to give it time though; we don't master a new tome overnight and the meta needs time to evolve.

Just curious, are you giving the bonus to ALL the special weapons or just one of them? I just reread the rule and it looks like it’s just a single special weapon that gets a bonus. Hopefully I’m wrong.

That is a beautiful paintjob!!

This is where I’m hung up as well. I think I need to play a dozen games or so to get an idea of which way I prefer playing them. Generally not a fan of magnetizing minis arms and weapons.

Amazing stuff dude!

I tried to give this a love reaction but I can't "react" anymore today hahaha

Yep! I just added that in there cause at that point in the discussion WW was coming up a lot.

Totally agree, that's really common in our internet communities these days. But to be fair to WW, and Vince especially, they temper their emotional reactions with disclaimers, nuanced points and examples. So even if the impression/opinion is strongly worded and emotional, I think it's 100% fair and worth hearing out. In the case of our book, I think they really were spot on about calling out the flaws, but possibly could have spent a bit MORE time talking about where the book allows for cool/fun/flavorful stuff. They didn't skip that stuff, they just sorta said "yeah it's there, BUT" and they aren't wrong about any of that imo.

Literally had the same thought, it's like someone wants mutton-chops to be part of every helmet.

Just tossing in some more fuel for the fire, but even though this is what makes Gloomspite and Cities so awesome, I DON'T want to see all future books get the same treatment. Gloomspite and Cities as factions makes sense to have such massive unit and build diversity. In fact, especially for Cities, that's one of the strengths of the army they (should) balance around. If every army in AoS had the flexibility that Cities has, they would all just feel the same. I love the flexibility of list building in Cities and Gloomspite, but I want a melee-focused army like Ironjaws or Khorne to always be better at that than Cities. That's their identity, just as build diversity is the identity for Cities and Gitz. They should definitely have multiple ways of building their lists, but the jack-of-all-trades aspect should just be reserved for a few armies, as it's part of what sets them apart. Let's not go down the World of Warcraft path where every class got all the tools every other class had.

This is a fantastic breakdown, and why I say that if you are investing in a ranged hammer unit, Irondrakes are probably the best

The 6s doing mortals is included in the damage calculation in the graph. The range helps, but both are so pitifully short that you should ambush or use bridge in either case.

I figured that's what he meant but it's a misleading way to write it, because of the 9" bubble and the fact that it's not a true 24" threat range; you only shoot once if you move. I get everything you are saying and agree that it is very strong. It's the same thing when playing against FEC basically, but even better than FEC. The main thing I don't like is that it can still be played around. I have never lost to an ambushing army in tournaments because if you build a good list, you will have cheap screeners and you can decide what is okay to let die and screen what you need to win. It definitely forces your opponent to play smart and make tough choices, but it's always able to be played around by a good player who made a good list. Regarding Irondrakes and Sisters, Irondrakes are mathematically more efficient. They do more damage per point than the more expensive sisters, carry buffs better, all while being more durable. Mortal Wounds are nice though and they're pretty close so it really is preference. Here's a chart though in case you are curious! Graph is comparing units of 30, and does NOT factor in the point cost - just damage output. Buffs include +1/+1 as you can do that in TE easily, and Irondrakes also have their rending improved (which you can stack btw, I only show it once)

It can be awesome for sure, but I've found that at tournaments where your opponents will generally be good players, you'll often be screened out of range from shooting any meaningful target. If they don't screen you out then it's a great alpha strike, but the same goes for bridge. I love our flexibility and options Also, how are you getting 24"? I'm confused there. Lastly, while Sisters are great, Irondrakes are more efficient in terms of both damage and durability per point.

I read the math recently and halberds are generally better while also being easier to use. IMO they make more sense too. Demigryphs aren’t super efficient as a pure hammer unit - these guys are more of a mobile anvil that do decent damage. You kinda want to use their speed to throw them at deadly enemy units that would otherwise be somewhere you don’t like. Demi’s aren’t as amazing of an anvil as PG but they are faster and scare opponents.

The negativity is so palpable I couldn’t help but just stop reading at a certain point. Several people are complaining that our book isn’t competitive and that building lists sucks because synergies are locked to the sub-races. I’ve played several tournaments and done very well in all of them. We absolutely have very strong options and WAY more list diversity than any other army in AoS. True, we did not get flat out broken rules and interactions like OBR and Slaanesh did. But I would say that makes our book better. Those two examples are horribly written in terms of balance and are a problem for the competitive scene as a whole - Cities is well written and viable, even GOOD if you are willing to be flexible.