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Baron Wastelands

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  1. Baron Wastelands
    It used to be 6 ogors, 4 ironguts, 4 leadbelchers. But by modern standards of start collecting boxes, that’s too much, especially if you add in a character. I think an equivalent to other start collecting armies out there would be: 6 ogors, a butcher, and then either an ironblaster or 3 leadbelchers.
  2. Baron Wastelands
    I think, as a very general response, I’d go for 3 ratling guns, just so you can maximise overseer of destruction as a command trait (on a Skryre general) should you wish to, and also one spark hits all 3. Sparks won’t help warpfire or a wlc.
  3. Baron Wastelands
    I think you can only do 2,2,2. It says “a third of... can be armed with one of ...” rather than with any of. Most of the time, you’re better off with multiples anyway.
  4. Baron Wastelands
    I think you would be fine; at present, until we get an update, you have all the bones anyway. The key winners at the moment are big blocks of 12 ogors (think bulls, with a discount for taking 12), tyrants (can dish out serious damage when geared properly, multiple tyrants is a thing), and then either ironguts or allied maneaters as your (smaller - I run in 6s, some run in 3s) hammer units. Butchers are good, better with a cauldron (think skragg). Leadbelchers offer a bit more flexibility, bit of ranged and a bit of melee, but don’t excel at either. Big units of gnoblars (40/60) can make a good tarpit, especially since a tyrant can make them immune to battle shock (running away). The ironblaster is a bit weak at present, and the scraplauncher is not much better, but every iteration has its ups and downs I guess Gorgers ... are still models that don’t fit with the range. Some things don’t change. At 1k, take a tyrant and then a block of 12 ogors. After that, either a butcher + 3 ironguts + 3 ogors, or maybe try a second tyrant and 6 leadbelchers and see how you get on
  5. Baron Wastelands
    Sound plan. For the extra 80 pts, I’d ally in 4 frost sabres, I think; or a gorger if you want to stay pure Gutbusters. If you find you lack magic, you could always swap out one unit of ironguts instead, and add a butcher plus 3 ogors. Ogors aren’t as hard hitting, but can still deal with non-armoured targets, especially on the charge, and the butcher buffs can help all.
  6. Baron Wastelands
    You essentially have to do averages of averages. If you roll a 1, you will average (well, you will get!) 6 mortal wounds. If you roll a 6, you will average 1 mw (I.e. you will roll one 6 in 6 dice on average). There are way more than 6 outcomes, but 6 average outcomes corresponding with the first d6 roll. That’s why the average is 3.5, but also why you have a higher probability of high or low damage. (E.g. the probability of getting max output of 6 mw is 1 in 6 - not bad odds. If you mmwl, the odds of max 12 mw is still 1 in 6 because of the peculiarity of the way damage is calculated. The chance of 0 mws is different.) MAX output is however 12 mw in one turn, which I didn’t adjust above! Grrr, give me back hit and wound rolls! So 12 in one turn, 24 over 2 turns while it destroys itself. Compared to 12 (vs 4+ Sv) in one turn for 4 max power jezzails, 18 over 2 turns, while they destroy themselves too.
  7. Baron Wastelands
    With BCR, you could easily give huskards prayers, and something like judgements if you wanted to. As for firebellies, let’s be honest, they weren’t in the lore first time Someone made a fire breathing ogre model, and they came up with hokey fluff about eating volcanos. So wouldn’t be hard to do it again
  8. Baron Wastelands
    To be honest, after Gloomspite, I tend to agree. Whereas I would like to retain Gutbusters as an individual faction with an individual flavour (and the same for BCR), this is essentially still true for dankhold, squigs, etc. And I have separate armies for each of those, it doesn’t harm anything that I can also field the whole lot together. Like a mini alliance, really. Key bit is that each has their own command abilities, artefacts, etc. The only thing that doesn’t quite fit is the terrain piece, but that works better for skaven. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t holding out hope for a maw pit though
  9. Baron Wastelands
    Hmm, I think I have confused the damage characteristic of the melee attack on the wlc when doing the calculation. You’re right, in that you can’t spark the mw of the cannon (I made the assumption correctly when calculating the jezzails, in that a natural 6 would only cause 2 mw, not 2+1). In which case halve the numbers for the wlc after the initial calculation, and you have: unbuffed: 3.5 mmwl: 7, but suffers average of 4 wounds a turn over 2 turns, 14 mw destroying itself. max output 28 wounds a turn, 56 over 2 turns. That does look more sensible, good catch! so the wlc is better when overpowered than jezzails with full buffs, but they will kill themselves quickly. Interestingly, that changes the position when jezzails are just sparked, in that 4 sparked jezzails will do around 6 wounds against save 4+, whereas unbuffed wlc will do 3.5 on average. The deviation is different, in that a wlc will be more likely to do more and less. The choice I think comes down to how prepared you are to overcharge and burn your own units down. Burst damage, the wlc is still better over 2 turns, but sustained, the jezzails are probably better.
  10. Baron Wastelands
    Happy to oblige, but giving average output for a wlc is not quite comparable, as it is very swingy. That said: on average, a WLC will do 3.5 (mortal) wounds a turn. With a spark, this is 7 mw. With mmwl (its own ability) as well that’s 14 mw, but you’re gonna break your cannon in (on average) 2 shots. No command traits/artefacts will help. A single jezzail (when not moving) will average just over 1 wound a turn. (1 and 1/9). Before any saves, but includes the possibility of mortals). With a spark, this is 1 and 1/2. With an injector as well, it’s 1 and 7/9, but you’re losing a jezzail a turn. With mmwp as well it’s 2 and 5/36 (say 2 and 1/7) wounds a turn each, but now you’re losing 2 jezzail a turn as well (though you can move again!). now a wlc is 180 points, and jezzail are 140 for 3. So closest comparison is 4 jezzail for every 1 wlc. Without any buffs, that’s 3.5 wlc vs 4.45 jezzails (though some can be saved at -2 rend; e.g. against 4+ save, this is approximately 4 wounds). So unbuffed and unsparked the jezzails look slightly better in most cases. Once you spark them, the wlc starts to pull ahead quickly. On max power (all possible buffs) both units will destroy themselves within 2 turns. But the wlc will deliver 28 mortal wounds, the jezzails about 12 and a 1/2 wounds (some mortal). Note that these are averages, as I said at the start, the WLC is more swingy than jezzails. However, the max damage output of 4 jezzails fully buffed in one turn is 12 wounds (18 over the two turns that 4 would wipe themselves out) whereas the max output of a wlc is 56 mortal a turn (112 over the two turns it wipes itself out). Unlikely, but it’s there! Hope that helps. In terms of your list, if you already have 2 bombardier, 1 doomwheel, 2x20 clanrats and 1 wlc, I think I’d simply go with another wlc. If the exercise is to squeeze the jezzails in, I’d either drop a bombardier, or restart
  11. Baron Wastelands
    The gryph-feather charm is great on a thunderhusk, as it stacks with chill. I would also consider charngar’s pelt from BCR, as coupled with the (self) healing ability of the thunderhusk you can heal your ‘tusk for an average of 2.5 wounds a turn; which can really help keep those mortal wound snowballs coming thick and fast, especially if your opponent has some plink attacks to chip away at his damage table, rather than a full on gunline.
  12. Baron Wastelands
    Doppelgänger cloak has been errata’d to be once per game, so less useful. Rabid Crown is absolutely the way to go, turns a Master Moulder into a locus of buffs!
  13. Baron Wastelands
    Well it would certainly be fun to try! As you surmise, it wouldn’t play the objective game well, and you are a bit vulnerable to hordes with multiple attacks, but then you are playing BCR in the first place!
  14. Baron Wastelands
    Yes, you got that right. Leadbelchers/Ironguts as battleline if you stick to guts. Note that you can still take allies though, you are just restricted to 20% of your total points and no more than one in every four units. So you can get Gargants in if you want them. Alternatively take from the Destruction a la carte. Either way, at the moment, you’re choosing from Destruction command traits and Destruction or Realm artefacts. Idoneth and nighthaunt are both tough match ups for the Gutbusters, because, on the one hand we don’t like -to hit, and on the other we rely on rend. Don’t forget your efficient blobs of 12 ogors, take butchers, and counter-charge threats with tooled-up tyrants. Some Grot screens might help too, especially against fast charging units.
  15. Baron Wastelands
    Warpgale is a nice spell, and the extra command points can come in handy (so you always have one or two in hand for unleash more-more beasts). However, you have to have him as your general, and personally I think Hordemaster is too good to pass up on a Moulder general. Unless you take fleshmeld menagerie, of course.
  16. Baron Wastelands
    I don’t entirely agree with this - giant rats are actually quite handy in large units. Because they’re skaventide units, they benefit from overwhelming mass (and strength in numbers). Meaning you have 40 models with a 3” range (better than clanrats) hitting on 3+ (2+ with a Master moulder nearby/in the middle) and wounding on 4+, for 200 points. (Average of 17 wounds before saves with a moulder, 13 without - and it’s not that hard to get them all in range to attack because of the extra reach). Bravery is 11 (14 with a moulder) reducing by 2 for every full 10 that are wiped out. Moreover, with the right general or battalion, the whole unit can come back on a 4+ when destroyed! 2 units of that are certainly better than 3x20 clanrats just to fill your battleline, in an otherwise moulder list, and will contest objectives better than rat ogres. Smaller units of rats have their uses too, of course, but since bodies count for objectives, I wouldn’t leave moulder-nest-home without at least one large unit.
  17. Baron Wastelands
    Stormfiends shooting without Skryre command/artifact is a bit lacklustre, so I’m not sure I would bother. If you want fiends in a moulder list, I’d take a more combat orientated Loadout, like shock+warpfire+grinder. 80 giant rats is good, I really like units of 40. Aboms are great, think you’d like another one instead of rat swarms, but your choice 😉 not sure I’d take a bell in a moulder list; I guess you want it for the battleshock immunity, so you’d be surrounding it with giant rats ... the rest doesn’t really need it, even rat ogres when accompanied by a Master moulder. Rat ogres are surprisingly good, especially when accompanied.
  18. Baron Wastelands
    Maybe. Not wishing though; it just came up in another topic with a different unit, that’s all. And one in every 5 would be different, of course, that would allow 2 in 10, etc. I still think that if I said, for example, 1 adult for every 10 kids, it wouldn’t be intuitive to think 16 kids required only 1 adult, or that 5 required none. It also seems strange to me that a unit of 5 can’t take an icon at all, if that’s what the rule intends. It’s still a unit, why wouldn’t it be allowed? I won’t gripe either way, to be honest, just trying to help clarify.
  19. Baron Wastelands
    It doesn’t clear it up, it says “1 in every 10 can take a glaive” (same for icon). That is not the same as saying only the tenth (and 20th, etc.) model can be a glaive. In units which come in multiples of 10 only, then it’s clear - but blood warriors can be taken in multiples of 5. So my understanding of 1 in every 10 means no more than one in every 10, I.e. you can’t take 2 in 10, or 3 in 20. In effect, taking 1 in 5, or 2 in 15, does not violate the rule of 1 in every 10, at least not unless there is a ruling which spells that out.
  20. Baron Wastelands
    Is this based on a previous ruling? I wouldn’t assume that 1 in 10 precludes a unit of 5 taking one. It just means a unit of 10 can’t take more than one. I think you can take one leader, one glaive, and one banner in a unit of 5. You could take them in a(n understrength) unit of 3 if you wanted to. Unless I’ve missed something; more than happy to be corrected if there’s a precedent in faq somewhere?
  21. Baron Wastelands
    That’s a great idea. Call in an air strike 😊 There is now a precedent for non-magic endless ‘spells’ with the khorne release. Presumably terrain pieces and endless spells for existing armies sell well, or they wouldn’t keep doing it. Personally, I will usually buy the terrain pieces for my armies, even if I’m not bothered about the bonus. And usually it’s a nice freebie in game.
  22. Baron Wastelands
    De nada. 1k list sounds fine to me, but you might find it hard to cover objectives (but then that’s BCR in general). Will have to table your opponent quickly!
  23. Baron Wastelands
    It is only the Huskard on Stonehorn that gets +1 damage, but yes, his mount’s attacks get it as well. I use mournfang packs, and prefer them in units of 4; the hackers are generally better, but the fists are ok, and are likely to be useful again soon I think. I think Everwinter’s Master is the best all round trait, beast-eater can be good if you know you’re facing a lot of monsters. If you’re only using BCR artefacts, I still like the pelt, but blade of all-frost can combine with eurlbad bonuses for punches and kicks, and the tokens can also make a crucial turn go well. Bleeding skull looks ok to help with lack of casters, but in reality it will only help you against light magic lists, in which case you probably don’t need it anyway. If you are playing realm artefacts, there’s several great choices that you would probably take over any of the BCR ones.
  24. Baron Wastelands
    Congrats. That’s a nice colourscheme, like the purple, and you have a good balance of colours.. I would think about giving them a thin wash in something like sepia, all over, then picking out highlights. Wouldn’t need much, you’ve done a very neat job, but would help you get more definition on the details.
  25. Baron Wastelands
    Think you’ve unintentionally halved the odds again. I make it 72 wounds on average. 4+ rerollable means one in every 4 goes through, so 12 damage needs 48 (on average). Ward of 5+ means 2 in 3 go through, so 48 becomes 72 needed on average. Still a tough cookie though 😊
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