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Sception

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Everything posted by Sception

  1. The thing is, if you want that 'former chaos guy as undead' aesthetic back it pretty much /has/ to be a new guy. Because while Nagash could bring back Krell, by what logic would he bring back Krell's specific busted up suit of armor? Krell was a mortarch in the end. If he comes back, he'd get a fancy new set of deathlord armor in the style of the end times plastics or the Ossiarchs. Heck, he'd probably /be/ an Ossiarch.
  2. Why? He's not even a person. He has no personality, no motivations. The most interesting parts of Krell were always tied up in his relationship with Kemmler, the open question of whether it was the ranting necromancer or the silent skeletal brute behind him that was really pulling the strings. What does Krell, especially devoid of Kemmler, bring to the table that a wight king or ossiarch liege grounded in AoS's specific lore and setting couldn't? EDIT: No, that's not fair. Krell does have some appeal in the 'silent hulking brute but you can't be sure what if anything is actually going on inside'. Like, is he just an automaton or is he an actual thinking guy. That's not nothing, it is a pretty solid archetype for a skeletal dude, and none of the AoS undead characters have that in that they all have motivations (albeit sometimes muddled ones) that they'll happily tell you about at length. They're all chatterboxes, none of them are just silent and menacing. So fair enough, I withdraw my complaint, I can see /why/ someone would want Krell back. I just personally would rather see a new take on that archetype and leave Krell himself back in the Old World. Though even then I have to admit that the decision to lock the Old World game down to a time period when Krell's still entombed and Kemmler probably isn't even born yet means we won't even get to see him there. So I guess I wouldn't object to bringing Krell back in AoS, at least not as much as I'd object to Vlad or Abhorash (seriously DO NOT bring back Vlad or Abhorash).
  3. The only exceptions I'd be willing to entertain are for minor characters who never really got the chance to shine in oldhammer, or for characters you could do something radically different with in AoS. Neither is something we're likely to see, since the characters fans tend to ask for are the big popular fully established ones, and if you change those characters in any meaningful way the people who wanted them back in the first place will get mad. For example, I'm mostly into the undead factions, and I regularly hear calls to Bring Back Vlad or Bring Back Abhorash, even though they are so fully grounded in the old world that they'd make little sense in AoS while simultaneously sucking all the air out of the room, so to speak. And especially in Vlad's case, his death in the End Times was an especially effective close to his character that I for one would hate to see undone. But, by contrast, consider Isabella. She was always a background character in her own life, the mechanism by which Vlad gained political power, the woman he loved to give him character depth, never a character in her own right. Her End Times story saw her level these criticisms at Vlad - you never really loved me you just wanted power, I never really loved you I was simply dominated by the monster who killed my father - but only in the context of Isabella being possessed by Nurgle, so she still didn't get to have her own agency. In the end Vlad proved the sincerity of at least his side of the relationship by dying to free her, both from chaos and from himself. That's a very satisfying close to Vlad's character, but it's an even more compelling *beginning* to Isabella's story - a story that can finally actually center her choices, her character. She can't just follow Vlad back into death like she did the first time he died, that would be ignoring all the very real flaws of their relationship that had just been laid bare, the fact that no matter how strongly she feels love for Vlad she can never again trust that it was sincere and not just something he did to her. And even if she decides that love was real, killing herself now would be spitting on the sacrifice Vlad made to save her. So she lives on to honor that sacrifice and does... Nothing. She does nothing, because the world ends two weeks later. Isabella as the 'Mortarch of Shadow', filling Vlad's empty boots, could be a darned compelling character in AoS in a way that she was never allowed to be in WHFB. You could have her taking revenge on Mannfred both for his betrayal of Vlad and for the way he treated her directly. You could have her allying with Neferata as peers, playing into the novels portrayals of Neferata as sort of a hopeless sapphic. You could have her playing a particularly rebellious or subversive role towards Nagash as someone who at this point is fully sick and tired of being controlled by others - which could also be used to explain her absence up till now, using her 'mortarch of shadow' powers to hide until Nagash was out of picture, maybe establishing a hidden kingdom in that realm of shadow we've heard so much about but that's been strictly in the background so far. You could do a gender-swapped version of the Bram-Stoker Dracula thing where she starts to suspect that some dashing Stormcast hero might secretly be the soul of long lost Vlad reincarnated by the storm god, and examine her own internal conflict over whether she even wants him back. But this will never happen. Partially because I think GW knows that AoS really doesn't benefit from putting even more emphasis on characters and relationships grounded in old world lore, Partially because the Gravelords are already choked with named characters and the absolute last thing we need is yet another one, and mostly because, I mean, it's Isabella. Nobody cares about Isabella, nobody's clamoring for Isabella to come back. The main reason for GW to bring back old world characters is to cash in on nostalgia from old fans, but the characters old fans feel nostalgic for aren't the ones that have room to do anything new or interesting with. EDIT: As another example, while I'm happy to see him again in the Old World, I would hate to see Settra in AoS. There's no room for him to change & develop, his character's all wrapped up in his kingly claim over a land and a people that wouldn't even exist anymore if you did do anything new and different with him - eg if you made him a Stormcast hero who couldn't even remember his history, torn between his loyalty to Sigmar and an almost imperceptible voice from deep within saying he should be in charge - that might be interesting, but IF they did that then Settra followers would get big mad and they'd have to retcon it all away. IF they did that. On the other hand, consider Khalida. All her life tied up in this hatred of Neferata, then we learn in the Neferata book that said hatred was never really reciprocated, Neferata had a crush on Khalida, sincerely wanted to share power with her, was bitter and upset when Khalida forced Neferata to kill her. And then in the end times Khalida chooses to bend the knee to Nagash in the hopes of preserving some portion of Asaph within herself, rather than be destroyed like settra and see the last shred of her god follow the rest of the pantheon into Nagash's gullet. But then in the shared battles against chaos that followed she's forced to fight at Neferata's side, and the hatred just sort of drains away? And they faced the final end together, the centuries long feud seeming suddenly small and meaningless as the world is torn apart around them, the last two survivors of a civilization and now a world lost... and while that works as an ending, it also could have been such a compelling beginning to the two once mortal enemies moving foward as friends and allies (and maybe more), the only to people in all the realms who remember and mourn their lost homeland. Imagine Neferata tipping the scales against mannfred, getting a bit powerful and full of herself, and so Nagash calls back her ancient enemy to help further balance out her growing influence over Shyish, only for Khalida to join Neferata's side, or to make a show of continuing the old rivalry while secretly they work together. But again, this will never happen, partially because Khalida is less popular than settra (though not by as much as Isabella is less popular than Vlad), but mostly because the fans Khalida does have are super invested in her hatred of Neferata, and a complete 180 on that, while it would open up new and interesting places to take her character, would be seen as a betrayal by those fans, who don't just want to see old world characters back, they want to see them back exactly as they were, preserved in amber forever unchanging even as the entire universe changes around them. EDIT 2: "Sception this post isn't about what actually makes a returning character compelling, is it? You just want GW to give Neferata one or more girlfriends to alternately make out and conspire with." A post can be about more than one thing at the same time.
  4. There are ways to justify more old characters coming back, but I share the opinion that it shouldn't really be done. I don't want to get rid of the old world characters we already have, the ones we have define the setting that AoS has become. You can't have AoS without the S. But I don't want to add any more. By the end of second edition, the mortal realms were well enough defined that they didn't need to borrow any more validity from oldhammer characters, they can readily produce their own instead. Characters whose personalities and motivations are grounded in and give depth to the people and places of the new setting, instead of being grounded in peoples and places that don't exist in AoS, and that AoS lore can barely even reference in character since nobody remembers that far back with any real clarity.
  5. I've been trying to brainstorm ways to convert the Cities of Sigmar manticore lady into Dieter Helsnicht. The manticore looks amazing, and her chair has enough skulls and bones in it to work for a necromancer. But I have no idea what to do for the rider, and undead-ifying a big monster with feathered wings is a lot trickier than doing the same for a model with leathery wings that you can easily dremel some tattered holes into. I'd need to have a solid plan in place before starting - the model's way too pricey for me to just buy one and 'wing it'.
  6. imo mounted monsters should use the lower of the monster or the rider's armor save. the mounts save then becomes a cap on the rider's armor save, but there's still a reason to give the rider armor or a shield.
  7. 1000 points each of Tomb Kings Mortuary Cult and Vampire Counts, all re-based for the Old World
  8. Are there credible rumors stating whether skaven are getting the 'here's some pretty new models for your existing units' type of overhaul, or the 'here's some entirely new units that obsolete your old units or even kick them to legends outright' type of overhaul?
  9. The long anticipated nerf to Null Myriad has finally come. As of the new battlescroll the subfaction's spell ignore has been dropped from a 2+ all the way down to a 4+. Ouch! As a bit of a consolation it now always applies, instead of require your units to be wholly within some range of a mortisan or archan, which is something at least. You hate to see it, but then again honestly it was expected much sooner - I was shocked when the Myriad survived the previous battlescroll untouched, so you can't say we didn't have a good run of it. That said, I was hoping for ~less~ of a nerf, maybe going from 2+ to 3+ instead of all the way down to 4+, so yeah, it does still hurt. Oh, well! As for points changes, Archai and immortis are both up 10 points. Frankly I think they were fine where they were and would have rather seen Harbingers and stalkers come down a bit more, but whatever, I don't think they're unplayable at 230. Nagash is down a whopping 40 points, so still unplayably overpriced, probably needs at least two more such discounts before he sees much play in OBR armies, though I've been wrong about him before. Zandtos is down 10, which probably puts him into a playable range for praetoris armies, which will likely be more common now with the myriad's nerf. Or rather it would put him into playable range if we weren't still stuck in andtor. Crawler's down 10, still probably too expensive for what it does, but it can't get much cheaper with how huge it is or people will start fielding them purely for the amount of space they zone out on the table, and that would be embarrassing. Honestly, the crawler, like the harvester, needs fixes other than points adjustments. Vokmortian's down another 20 points to 120. That's honestly a steal for a double cast loremaster, even if all his other rules don't actually ever do anything. Or rather, much like Zandtos, 120 would be a steal if were weren't still stuck in andtor. Even 40 points more for a soulmason is still worth paying to have your double cast loremaster also be a locus. On the other hand, even as a locus, a soulreaper being only 10 points less than vokmortian is bad comedy. I'm kind of surprised they didn't drop the soulreaper's cost again too. Oh, well. No huge complaints for me. Again, sad to see the myriad nerf, but it was long coming. Love it or lump it, the bone times are over. Thankfully they nerfed the frogs even harder, so they shouldn't be running rampant even with myriad out of the meta.
  10. I'm in the US and I order txarli factory designed 3d printed plastic bases and movement trays from Covetedforge.com. They come pre-fitted for 5x1mm disc magnets, which is nice, they're not too pricey, turnaround time on orders is like 3 weeks give or take. If you have your own 3d printer you can buy the print files from txarli factory instead. The one word of warning i'll give is that some of the new Old World base sizes (60x100mm bases, bases and unit trays for 30x60 at least, I haven't tried any 30mm square bases or trays yet but probably those too) were re-sized from smaller bases without fixing the magnet slots, so the slots themselves are oversized and/or oblong. You can still glue the same magnets in, the depth of the magnet slots isn't messed up, but you've got to be careful about centering to get the magnets in the bases and the movement trays to line up. So there's a fair few caviats here, most of which I'm sure will get worked out in time, but imo these are still the best bases & movement trays you can currently buy for a reasonable price.
  11. That's absurd, half of old world is stuff gw doesn't sell at the moment. Thankfully my local guy is more reasonable.
  12. Good news! The plastic Blood Knights fit on 30x60 cav bases just fine - at least in a single rank. They do hang over the front & back, so making two ranks work might rake some extra effort. The champion's mace extending way out to the side obviously won't fit, so give him a sword or lance instead. you can even still use the cape if you clip the mace arm off & trim it up a bit.
  13. Had my first game of warcry just last week. Was a lot of fun, & yeah, way more manageable game size to paint/play. I just hope the current season wraps up soon & we get a different theme for terrain.
  14. Corpse Cart back in stock on the US online store. Now if only Black Knights would come back in, I need like 4 boxes of those.
  15. Not a fan of the 'of renown' stuff, but I've ranted about that elsewhere. As for Sekhar, she's ok. Not great, but not actively bad. It's frustrating to get yet another named infantry vamp hero when vamp hero on nightmare and new grave guard are so desperately needed, but she at least looks kind of weird and cool, and it's nice to see something specific to legion of blood. I'm disappointed at the lack of OBR both in releases (I let myself get my hopes up for that rumored Morghast hero) and in the lore (I thought an ROR with Arkhan meant he was getting revived in this book - sadly not). ... On the more positive side, the lore developments with Ushoran are neat, really have him shouldering his way into the ongoing story of the game and in particular the death factions in a big way. I've been complaining that FEC needed important named heroes to establish and drive their place in the narrative, and that's finally really happening. Kind of a shame to have Legion of Blood taking the L over it as Neferata's been forced into the roll of the jobber once too often in AoS, but as long as she comes out on top in the eventual showdown between her and Mannfred I'll be ok. Also, Triumph and Treachery looks fun. So even if I'm not keen on Sekhar or any of the 'of Renown' stuff, I'm still pretty hype to pick this book up. Otherwise, imo 4th edition can't come soon enough, as I'm pretty sure this is it for Undead content (rules, models, & narrative) in 3rd edition, apart from that one nighthaunt group for warcry. I'm not expecting anything else for the undead in the remaining Dawnbringers books, certainly not in terms of new rules or model releases. I'm not exactly complaining, mind. The FEC refresh really is impressive, and Ushoran's arrival has made a major mark on the setting. Can't complain there. And plenty of undead stuff happening in Old World, Warcry, Underworlds, etc to keep me occupied until we start seeing 4th ed battletomes.
  16. Honestly, neither do I. Cannons feel problematic at first glance, especially if we want big cool monster heroes to be viable. However, most factions don't have access to cannons, and even for the armies that have them they aren't exactly cheap to spam, and they're coming out of special points, so spamming cannons really limits what the rest of the army can be in a way that spammed glade guard for example really don't. So in practice, I could easily be worried over nothing.
  17. Fair enough i guess, but I'm not sure I see how 6 units of glade guard in a 2000 point game is a bigger problem than 6 great cannons. Not a criticism of you and your group specifically, more of the current semi-official rule of 3 as it is currently worded.
  18. Are you applying 'rule of three' only for otherwise unlimited stuff, or are you also applying it to units that already have discrete limits but would allow more than three? eg, if something is '2 per 1000 points' would it be limited to 3 or to 4 in your group?
  19. Those are only my thoughts, and they're only backed up by a single game. Even if we count oldhammer experience, i didn't actually get to play all that often and never competitively. I'm more than happy to write out my process to help anyone struggling to get a beginner list together so they can start building up their own experience, but there are others out there who are more qualified to present actual competitive advice. Some good examples worth looking at include Russ of Facehammer TV and Vince Vinturella on youtube, both of whom recently put out Tomb Kings army overviews: this one's a bit meandery, but the chapter list will help you find comments on specific topics ... ... These both rate some options pretty differently than I do, and where there are discrepancies between my advice and theirs both of these guys are speaking from positions of considerably more authority. Especially worth noting, both of these videos rate the skeleton chariots a lot higher than I do, and in particular recommend mounting kings or princes on chariots to put in the unit, so that's probably a better option than I made it out to be. Where they disagree with each other, that I leave to you to work out who has the better take. Regardless, if you're interested in Tomb Kings, both of these videos make good background listening while doing hobby work.
  20. I'm curious how they'd justify this in the narrative. Beastmen are a pretty significant part of the AoS lore, even if they haven't featured heavily in the ongoing story to this point. That said, 3rd edition, the supposed "age of the beast", coming and going without a significant refresh to the Beasts of Chaos model range makes this feel sadly plausible. Kragnos, very clearly a Beasts of Chaos model, being released for not the beasts of chaos, would also be a pretty terrible sign in retrospect. On the other hand, chaos warriors get to be an army in both games, so... shrug.
  21. I like that he's off the table (in terms of narrative) for the moment, letting the Mortarchs follow their own fun little plots and squabbles, but I wouldn't want him gone permanently. Partially because I just don't think the GW lore writers are capable of coming up with a 'lord of the undead' style character who would be at all better or even meaningfully different from Nagash, but also because Nagash is just active and dynamic in ways that have fun impacts on the narrative even if you don't think much of him as a personality. Like I said, I'm glad that he's in time out, but let's be real, Age of Sigmar's narrative was never as active - the story changes never as big or coming as fast - as when Nagash was in the ascendancy. It didn't have to be this way, there were plenty of dangling threads left by Broken Realms and there are plenty of characters in the game who could have been doing stuff. And yet it seems that without Nagash around to Make Stuff Happen, stuff just Does Not Happen in this setting, and for that alone he's the best and most important character in Age of Sigmar and I hope GW never ever gets rid of him - at least not permanently.
  22. FAQs might change things, in the past look out sir was explicitly about war machine hits. I agree that a (single) waystalker, while good, wouldn't exactly broken if they did bypass look out sir, though against tomb kings in particular multple waystalkers could potentially be pretty oppressive, especially in lower points games where theoretically a hero level heirophant is supposed to be a viable build choice. And players can still roll ones, look out sir isn't the same as immunity. All that said, against enemies that can't pick out lone heroes (no waystalker style snipers, no stone thrower type war machines), walking around on their own next to big units is a pretty ideal location for most wizards, so forcing them into (or behind) units, limiting their sight and potentially having to deal with being in a fighting rank, exposing them to melee attacks and potentially silencing a lot of their abilities if you tag the unit in melee, is still useful to do. It's good to limit your opponent's options. And sniping champions, even if that's all they do, is still good. Even as a wood elf player you typically will need to resort to melee combat to wipe units out and get the the victory points to win games. Taking out unit champions lets your own champions reliably absorb the attacks of powerful enemy melee characters for a round, leaving the rest of their unit, and any melee heroes of your own, free to put all their own attacks on the enemy unit even if that hero might have otherwise out-initiatived you. With your fragile melee units, a fighty lord with strikes first can otherwise be a major problem. So yeah, I still don't think waystalkers are bad. But fs look out sir does apply - and I can't see anything in the text that says it doesn't - then they're *a lot* less powerful than people were thinking at first glance.
  23. Characters in units of 5+ get look out sir of 2+ on hits against them in the shooting phase. Unless I'm missing something the waystalker mostly just functions to force lone heroes into units, once there they're as safe from her as they are from war machines. She is very effective at sniping out unit champions, though. No look out sir there, and unlike standards and musicians other models in the unit don't replace them. Thankfully tomb kings can bring our champions back from the dead.
  24. On the other hand, undead units without their faction rules tend to be bad and/or confusing. Will olynder even be ethereal? Will Arkhan even have spells worth casting? Will Katakros's OBR be subject to battleshock, making his personal guard the most cowardly bonereapers in the game? Doing the mortarchs' personal forces as regiments of renown, with the usual 'not in your own faction' restriction, was a mistake. The mortarchs should have been armies of renown, and the snake lady's entourage should have been a regiment of renown - I mean, the entire point is that they're operating as allies to the FEC. I'll still get the book, for lore and whatnot, but honestly this design choice is so woefully backwards as to be mind numbing. When death in general already seems to be getting sidelined in the dawnbringers campaign (only really present in one book, only a single new model outside of the stuff that would have been coming with the FEC update regardless and didn't need a campaign to justify its release - and that one new campaign model, while kind of cool, is literally the last thing anybody needed at this point, another vampire infantry special character), with really only the 'of renown' rules in book 4 to show for ourselves, the fumbling of these rules at the very starting line of which should be 'regiments' and which should be 'armies', before the designers even had a chance to mess up the unit selection or special rules, is just... it's exasperating. But whatever! I don't expect armies/regiments of renown to survive the coming edition change anyway, so it's probably not worth getting worked up over.
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