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Hollow

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Everything posted by Hollow

  1. The "evidence" is just inferring from what is happening across the ranges. Fantasy models being removed = squatted, refreshed = update of the same or redesigned High Elf = Lumineth. BoC being out of stock online and in stores. No significant updates or releases for the faction over 9 years. (I don't consider a herdstone, endless spell, warband and single character "significant") BoC being a core ToW faction with a unit roaster and army photography within ToW publications consisting of the entire BoC range. BoC range are all models from Fantasy. There is a clear distinction between factions of ToW and AoS. Add several rumours from various sources and I think there is a pretty strong argument that this is indeed happening. The real question is how it will be done. A complete chop/squatting of the faction and range in AoS completely, moving the current range to ToW and a new AoS-fied Beasts faction to replace it, or for removal of the BoC as a singular faction and more beast units appearing in other chaos factions. What I do not see happening. Is for BoC to stay within AoS as they are and to be launched in ToW using the same models.
  2. Indeed. The BoC model range is being squatted from AoS and being ported over to ToW. What remains to be seen is if BoC as a faction will remain in AoS under a new thematic identity, be removed entirely or be folded into other existing Chaos factions. That's my bet. That is the writing I see written on the wall and time will tell.
  3. Oh, come on. That's like saying there are Dwarfs in each setting which means they are the same! These are iconic Warhammer design "races" seen in every Warhammer setting and two of the most popular, it's completely different. It is just not the same thing. We have also seen through photography and the literal O+G model line that there is a there is ToW Orc and Goblin type and an AoS Orruk type. It's like saying because there are AoS Orks and 40k Orks that the same faction is in each game. It's not. There are Orks in both, like there are humans in both. Also, I don't think there are factions in AoS called Orc & Goblins or Chaos Warriors... are there? Nope.
  4. Eldritch Horror, terrifying bestial monstrosities. Something along the lines of these little dudes I just whipped up on Image Creator.
  5. I have read similar takes several times and think you have it backwards. AoS is the driving decision for ToW. The core factions in ToW are made up of the factions not present in AoS. The legacy factions in the ToW are the factions that are in AoS. Regarding BoC, I don't think it is the case of ToW studio saying to the AoS studio, "Hey, we want BoC in ToW, drop the faction from your roaster so we can have them in our setting" I think it is much more the case that the AoS studio said "Hey, we are going to remove, re-do or completely redesign this faction (we don't know which it will be yet) you can have this "old" one for your setting" It's not that the ToW is dictating where AoS goes and what it will have in its roaster. It's the other way around.
  6. Yes. I actually think that now is the perfect time with AoS 4 launching and AoS 10th year approaching.
  7. Practically it has already begun. The entire range apart from AoS units the Vanguard and Beastord are out of stock. They aren't in stock in Warhammer stores. They generally aren't in stock in Online retailers or FLGS. If you want to start and purchase a BoC faction right now. You can't. 9 years of support since Fantasy is not what I would consider a "quick cut"
  8. Well, I see it differently. I wouldn't say that High Elves are in AoS. High Elves are a Core faction in ToW. Whilst there is clearly a thematic continuation from HE to Lumieth, they are two different factions, with two different model lines, for two different game systems. (The same thing that might happen with BoC) So the HE range was "squatted" from AoS. In the same way, the BoC range will be. The only question is if Beasts will get the Lumineth treatment or not. I would like to see that happen, but I could also see them just folding Beasts in AoS into the existing Chaos factions.
  9. Is there? If the faction name is changed and every model in the line is removed and a new faction with completely different models, units, thematics, aesthetics, characters and play style takes its place? Like... ok. I feel like semantics over terminology are irrelevant at that point.
  10. I completely disagree. I think a new purge is exactly what AoS needs. With the approach of AoS 4 and the release of TOW, it is the perfect time to further differentiate the two settings and clean up the AoS lines. I honestly think that GW has been too slow in removing, replacing or renewing fantasy miniatures across the AoS line over the last 9 years. I would much rather see the faction lines across the AoS section of Warhammer.com be filled with fully supported, in-stock lines, with older, under-performing kits being removed. Make space and free resources for newer kits and refreshes. I'm not a fan of how bloated and unwieldy GW product lines are. Use MTO for splash releases of older kits. The reality is that I think it is unrealistic to support product lines, that together, are composed of thousands of different products. It's absurd. It's a logistical headache that I think genuinely affects the ability of GW to properly explore new and creative design space. 2025 will mark the 10th Anniversary of AoS. I hope that towards the end of next year, we will have seen a purge of the majority of older fantasy minis from the AoS line. (Of course, there are still some that work within the AoS line, but the older Dark Elf kits? Purge baby purge!) I have thought for a while that Grand Alliance Chaos would be best served with a total of 8 factions. Blades of Khorne Disciples of Tzeentch Hedonites of Slaanesh Maggotkin of Nurgle Slaves to Darkness Skaven Beasts of Chaos (Renamed with a complete aesthetic, thematic and plastic over-haul) Chorfs At the center of the 8 Mortal Realms lies the 8 points. The Chaos Grand Alliance with 8 factions. There is a numerical elegance to that which appeals to me. With those 8 factions, the Grand Alliance would be very well served. 8 factions would allow for significant differentiation for collecting, modelling, painting and playing. They would also have AoS thematics and aesthetics. A more general point regarding AoS and GW model support. People are different and want different things, some on this forum openly state that for AoS they would prefer there wasn't anything genuinely new added to the game, just updates to existing kits. Some think there should never be any new factions and GW should focus on the 24 that exist, tweaking and updating existing factions. Some think that if GW releases a model it should be supported with rules and retail presence until the heat death of the Universe and any attempt to move on from that product is like spitting in their mother's face. I personally do not agree with any of the positions above. I think that GW should be far more up-front and ruthless about the fact that some models will be released, supported for some time and then potentially removed. Done. The expectation that some GW customers have that if GW moves to "squat" something it is somehow a personal attack and they do not care about their customers is utterly absurd to me. A PLC like GW does not just stop selling products that sell well. I also feel as though it would mark a stagnation of the game (and for the designers) if things just essentially stayed the same. With just updates and refreshes to existing concepts. I don't want AoS to just have updates and refreshes year on year. I want GW to explore and take risks within the AoS design landscape. If something isn't working, dump it! move on and try something new. I have said this before but It's a philosophy that I really think would best serve AoS. The game and its various product lines should be treated like a Bonzai tree. Frequently watered, often fed and annually pruned. What does pruning do for a tree? The Tree can stop producing fruit or new vegetation, dead leaves and branches sap energy from the rest of the tree. Too many dead limbs will result in a sickly tree that produces very little fruit or new foliage. Tree pruning is the best way to encourage new growth and increased yield.
  11. I actually don't think it is a bad decision if sales aren't good enough and supporting them as they are is taking potential resources away from exploring new things within AoS. (I say this as someone who owns the entire BoC line)
  12. I don't think they need to justify anything. Having Beast models within AoS can easily be done by expanding the 4 mono-god Chaos factions (Blades, Disciples, Hedonites, Maggotkin) with mono-god Beast-like units. Hedonites already have the Slaangors and Disciples have the Tzaangors. I feel like this move has been signposted for quite some time. I have talked about it a lot and it is clear as day to me that with BoC being one of the Core ToW factions, their models would be repackaged and sold under the ToW banner. I would also argue the point that Beasts as they currently are in AoS are a "popular" faction. I just do not think that is the case. With Skaven getting a big update and rumours of Chorfs on the horizon, I could see them wanting to cut the fat from the AoS Chaos line.
  13. Oh for sure, although my first thought regarding MTO is that they normally come in standard white Citadel boxes rather than ones you might see on a shelf in a retail environment. (Although I understand that MESBG MTO has been like this for a while) so perhaps not.
  14. Not just another wave, but GW confirmed that the boxes would remain as permanent parts of the range.
  15. It is interesting to see on Social Media that some people are reporting that they have received their MTO Tomb King and Bretonnian minis already (and they have arrived in fully branded clam packs with artwork) It makes you think that these models were actually planned for standard release, but due to the huge demand for the first wave of releases, they changed these follow-up models to MTO to capitalise on the demand (which they have clearly underestimated) It makes sense, considering these models would fit well within the range as generally available minis.
  16. 19. Models have individual point values.
  17. Many people have worked on the project and more has happened with HH since his death than before it. The novels, the models, the artwork. Of course, he was influential but to say the HH died with him is patently absurd. The entire setting, system and lore have gone from strength to strength. No. No, it is not a fact. It is a ludacris idea that bears no resemblance to reality.
  18. I should have just ignored it. If you think Savage Orks are some kind of racial play-up that says so much more about you than GW.
  19. Points are all but irrelevant for me. I collect WARHAMMER, when I am thinking about a new faction to collect the first thing I do is go through its Warhammer store page and click all the models I like and put them in a basket. Then cry at how much it will cost, source those models from online retailers and start buying. At that point, I will sit down with their Battletome, Codex, Army book and start thinking about what kind of force I would like. I've sold models and collections over the years and honestly regret doing so. I wish I still had many of the armies I have lost over the years. Now I am a bit older I don't see myself selling things off. I have plenty of space and so I just see myself getting what I want going forward.
  20. Sorry what? Chaos? Beasts of Chaos? Orcs? The Undead?.... These are archetypal fantasy baddies. If people are projecting actual peoples onto these fanasy stereotypes then that is very much a them problem and they would be best left to shout into the void that is Twitter. I can't believe that in 2024 we have this kind of non-sensical, uber sensitive anti-fun. Ewww.
  21. It's kind of hard to predict as I think refreshes of kits like these are far more driven by sales and the lifecycle of moulds rather than pure creative desire. With the kits being relatively old, most (if not all of the ones you mentioned) will be in pure profit mode, (having payed off their R+D). Also, most of the kits you mentioned are actually pretty decent and will be around for many more years to come. I think the Daughters of Khaine (Witch Aelves/Sisters of Slaughter), Sylvaneth (Dryads),Seraphon (Skinks) and FEC (Ghouls) are perfectly decent kits and would much rather see resources for those factions put into something new or towards other updates (Updated Saurus Guard for example). The Skaven (Clanrats), S2D (Marauders) and GSG (Grots) on the other hand are really showing their age and I hope for updated kits.
  22. I think a lot of people also buy models with the intention of playing with them... at some point, they just never actually do.
  23. The problem with that is it is pretty derivative of the LOTR aesthetic. I think a cool aesthetic for Grungi's Duardin would be to have a prevalance of fur, pelts, hide and leather. The Khardon have the heavy metal armour look already. Have a hunter/mountian-man aesthetic. Big pipes, cross-bows, hammers and tool boxes with big fur lined cloaks made from leathery hide. Buckles, belts . Sleigh-chariots pulled by Rhinox style creaturers, Stone tricycles. Funnily enough, GW touched on what I think would work with the Leagues of Votann's Grimnyr model. With it being AoS they could really push the "magical rock and ore" dynamic. With them being used to power wacky vehicles and war machines. You could even have them "becoming one with the mountain" with rock and crystal sprouting from their skin and beards, fusing with and becoming part of the moutains themselves. I played around with Image creator for some concepts. This is something approaching how I thinik Grungi's Duardin could work.
  24. In terms of a "design ethos" and style guide for a potentail Grungi's Duardin Faction I could see an approach of - Fyreslayers - Fire & Axe. Kharadron - Air & Powder. Grungi's Duardin - Stone & Hammer. You could have Duardin with stone-scale skin, Mountian "Goat" cavalry and rock and ore Gholems. With characters incorporating elements of different rare stones and different types of Hammer being the weapon of choice.
  25. Why they only made 2500 Copies of the leather bound The End And The Death I just do not know. They could have easily sold triple that amount. It really does feel like GW leaves a lot of money on the table. I'm not so sure. I personally would really like to see them and there has been so many hints that Grugni is up to something. On the one hand AoS has both Fyreslayers and Kharadron, which are two decent Duardin factions, but they are pretty small and could really do with some more unit option to flesh out their ranges. Does AoS really need 3 full Duardin factions? (Potentially 4 with the rumoured Chorfs on the horizon) I suppose it really depends on what the AoS studio aspires for in terms of faction count for AoS. There's currently 24 AoS factions. They could just straight up add "Grugni's Duardin" "Malerion's Aelves" "Kragnos's Drogrukh" and "Chorfs" into the mix, bringing the total faction count to 28. Although I suspect that with ToW having traditional Dwarves. You might be right.
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