PJetski

I'm quite aware. This is another reason I like using the geminids, since it can reduce the number of attacks. The odds of killing a Gristlegore TG before you even engage it in melee are pretty good. Between Storm-winged (can be activated in both movement & charge phase), Rain of Stars, Skybolt Bow, Geminids, dracoth breath, Azyros lantern, spirit flasks (on your turn they go before the TG attack), you can get the damage through. It's important to use the dispel scroll on Unholy Vitality on the turn before you go for the kill. Once you kill the general their list falls apart quickly. Nothing is guaranteed because it's still a dice game after all, but it seems like you should be able to reliably handle a gristlegore list with this

Oh sorry I thought you were talking about the Pride Leader mount trait for some reason 😅 Yup. You can reliably get to 2+ rr1 breath attacks against MONSTERs, which should do 6d3 mortal wounds. The Drakesworn bow might do a wound, and some endless spell (probably Geminids) cast at +1 is fairly reliable, too. If it doesn't kill them then at least it should weaken them enough that they won't be much of a threat in the combat phase. I already have an Azyros in the list, and I dont think the Heraldor is necessary because of the 6" dauntless move. I want the Incantor to have two WIZARDs for objectives, a second unbind (with a dispel scroll), a second Spirit Flask, and to cast both Celestial Blades and Azyrite Halo on the Desolator mob in the same turn or toss an endless spell. I think I will value this more than the ability to run/retreat/charge and horn blast on scenery in this particular list.

LAGC has a few different functions. Cycle of the Storm and his healing spell are very valuable defensive tools for a list that relies on a 16 wound monster and 5 wound cavalry. Second, his speed allows him to keep up with the Desolators/Stardrake or grab objectives. Third, spirit flasks on a 7 wound model are much better than on a 5 wound model since he is much more likely to survive. He can also heal the turn after using spirit flasks, or heal the Incantor. A second dispel scroll is useful but with the Stardrake giving -1 to enemy casters it is of marginal value. Yes... but when would this ever be worthwhile? Dracolines all hit on 3+ already, a second +1 hit is almost always useless.

Here's the list I'm going to start testing Desolators with: Astral Templars Drakesworn Templar (General, Artefact, Storm-winged) Lord-Castellant Knight-Incantor (Celestial Blades) Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (Azyrite Halo) Knight-Azyros 6x Desolator 3x5 Liberators There's 60 points left over. I could add in endless spells (Purple Sun or Geminids?) or replace one of the Liberator squads with Judicators for additional focused fire. I don't think it can be better than Anvilstrike, but I reckon that's true for most lists.

You can build 3 normal Longstrikes with the kit - they have the same body as the Hurricanes after all I have 9 guys built with 3 Primes, in case I ever want to run them in smaller squads. I painted the birds different colours and always let my opponent know which one is the actual leader.

The breath attack does d3 mortal wounds, which averages to 2, so 6 models will do the equivalent of 12 attacks at 1 damage.

With a 6" dauntless move and 12" +d6 run you should be able to get anything you need within 10" of the Azyros

With a Drakesworn you can be on 2+ rerolling 1s with an Azyros, which can do 12 on average.

Lightning Breath should cripple or outright kill a gristlegore general or keeper of secrets. You may need to add in some more focused fire with ballistas or spells.

Crunched some numbers on Dracolines vs Desolators with and without buffs (+1 wound, reroll hit1, +1 hit, reroll wounds, +1 hit vs MONSTER, etc.). They are close in terms of efficiency, it really depends on personal preference. Desolators have a slight edge in damage output with zero buffs and with full buffs, but having to spend 460 on a Drakesworn really limits your options. Pros for Desolators: Average damage is mostly the same but has huch higher potential max damage Even with no +hit buffs they still do a ton of damage. 5 attacks at 2 damage each should not be underestimated. All Thunderaxes are 2" reach, while some Dracolines have to take 1" weapons Breath attack happens before combat, which can clear screens and weak/kill big monsters Breath has a bigger threat range, can shoot past screens +1 save and can reroll 1 in every phase Usually more mortal wounds per round than the lightning arc, can be really devastating in a double turn situation Loses 1 attack per model once you drop below 6, loses 2 attacks per model when you drop below 4 Dont need to charge to get bonus damage Pros for Evocators Can score WIZARD objectives Unbind Can activate Cogs Benefit more from +Attack buffs Reroll charges Dont need to shoot, can run & charge with Heraldor Celestial Lightning Arc happens every combat phase Dont have to spend 460 on a Drakesworn (but you have to spend 220 to get a LADrac) It seems like it will come down to preference and h I think they are going to work best in totally different lists. I picture 3 lists right now: 1. Astral Templars - Desolators with Stardrake and wizards 2. Astral Templars - Desolators with Ballista core 3. Celestial Vindicators - Dracolines with Ballista core, Heraldor and Cogs to reroll saves The first one seems to be the strongest - Drakesworn is an expensive monster but it has a lot a great utility. I'm excited to start working on this list

The stats don't tell the full story - take them with a grain of salt. Stormcast are sub 50% win rate in the stats but Im 18-0 with them this year and #2 in the ITC ranking.

The breath attack and better save is what puts them over the top for me. I think Desolators are better in AT than CV because +1 hit on their breath is great for killing monsters, while Dracolines benefit more from the CV command ability because they can be on 2+/2+ easily and benefit more from a Heraldor.

On a squad of 8 that's 16 bonus attacks with high accuracy, rend, and respectable damage. Many other command abilities that grant bonus attacks are usually restricted to poor quality attacks.

And have 1" range, which is a big deal for any unit over 5 models. I think 6x or even 8x Desolator is going to be a great list. Either Astral Templars (+1 hit versus Monsters and 6" move) or Celestial Vindicators (that command ability is nuts!) with Lauchon to transport them.

You can still do many of these if you teleport a Stegadon and use the D6 move ability. Im not sure why you think Seraphon are not a top tier army when Thunderquake is proven to be one of the strongest lists in the game

With Razordons and Salamanders limited to 3 I think it's time to try the 9x Kroxigor Thunderquake

As long as the meta is full of armies can fight before you can activate rerollable saves I can't see a reason to ever use Sequitors in any list. It's just giving your opponent a 440pt target to focus fire.

Liberators are more useful than Sequitors though?

Guaranteed teleports, unlimited range dispels, buffed up command traits, and the battalions are much better than they were before. Aside from the nerfs to Razordons and Salamanders, Seraphon just keep getting better an dbetter.

Are Skaven Gnawholes going to get an errata? They can't be used because of the new terrain rules

Power is relative. Wait and see what they do with FEC, Skaven, Khorne, Fyreslayers, and Gitz.

200pt Desolators is a really big deal. You can fit 6 of them in Lauchons boat and use Cycle of the Storm to stop a model from being slain. Very very interesting

Woops wrong thread

I haven't seen any changes to battalion costs. Very interesting.

Razordon/Salamanders in squads of 3 makes me think they're going to get a new plastic kit.