[Starcast - The Thread]

Now we will see what the faq does to his points cost... 

[Starcast - The Thread]

9 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I would personally go with the first, mainly for the magic protection. I would alsoswap the command point for aetherwings   oor, if the future in your local meta shapes to be a lot of oppressive magic (hence, you don't get to cast the comet very often) I eliminate the comet altogether and take something else with 150 points (if they are a possible ally, 10 LRL archers, or 20 skinks, or an heraldor + aetherwings, stuff like that)

What he said (except I'm loving the 2nd one because there's more dragons) 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

41 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Some created heroes are more expensive than their official  equivalents though but I'm pretty sure this guy could be of use in a shooty list. He's worth 100 points :

 

Problem is that spell is better than almost any in our lore

So internally he's debatably more than 100 pts. 

Even if the same stats and spell for other armies would make him a laughable choice. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

My Anvilstrike list probably cant compete with the 2020 power creep armies any more, even with ~100 points extra from this newest GHB. It was already struggling to maintain board presence against armies like Fyreslayers and Idoneth, but now with COS and Tzeentch there are other potent shooting armies in the mix.

Seraphon in particular are a hard counter, being able to teleport long range shooting units with Starborne, or reducing Longstrike damage to 1 with Coalesced, and reliably casting spells from outside Incantor void scroll range.

I'm not sure how to pivot the list to make it more effective. Maybe we need to swap the Longstrikes for 20x Judicator to give them more defense against mortal wounds.

I feel roughly the same with Starcast, luckily Im kind of excited for 40k and will fix an army there over the next few months. By the time that's done I think there'll be news on the SC front tbh.

I think grasping at synergies that are shadows of the 2020 tomes offerings,  and crunching points cost reduced numbers is just, kind of, standard at the end of a tome cycle. They could make 3x5 libs free and I think the meta would still be a challenging jungle.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

SC were a 3-2 (4-1 with a dose of luck) army anyway so we don't really need to worry about preserving a tourney win streak, going 5-0 and taking 1st place. That's new tome talk.

With that in  mind I'd just focus on what's already strong or - if there's nothing SC can do to reliably counter LRL/Seraphon (in particular as these will be oh so popular), just track all factions that WILL counter LRL and then build lists against those.

Then hope to dodge the nasty matchups - the big risk is the chance of drawing Tzeentch, then LRL, then Seraphon and losing before you hit the tables with mix of lists you've better chances against (and maybe you'll meet a new player with Tzeentch, LRL or Seraphon again :D)

So I think, things aren't going to change much for us other than squeezing in a few new treats in existing strong lists and, perhaps, finding something hot and new (the Vanguard Chamber - for instance) with the points reductions and the absolute last drop of  juice, the last ounce of hope from our big-strong-handsome storm-boys.

That and meme lists.

[Starcast - The Thread]

59 minutes ago, Django said:

4 x fulminators + lord heraldor

I  love this idea.

Ballistas are probably quite strong too.

HOWEVER this is the spirit of Starcast in a nutshell:

1 hour ago, Django said:

adding Gotrek and having a list that is 15 liberators and 5 heroes, with a grand total of 20 models 😛  Just imagine the look on your opponents face when he has to choose between engaging the Stardrake or Gotrek. 

Don't let them choose! You can say that Felix was reborn as a drake.

[Starcast - The Thread]

1 hour ago, LordPrometheus said:

Agreed. He needs 10 wounds, a 3+ unrendable save and a 5+ FNP to be worth his points, even with the discount. 300 points gets you WAY more value in most other armies.

Problem is his "strongest R5" schtick is counter productive to any cost.

Let him have unrendable and a FNP. Leave his wounds at 8. Give him 6 attacks r1. Take away increase to number of attacks.

Maybe give him an ULTRA BOOST if he comes on R5 - like his comet is 2d6 range and d6 damage, his mace has rend -4 and damage 4 with 8 attacks. lol

His points for 1 round is grim and it shows in how he is most often played as an artillery piece.

Note for those pondering if they take him in a list: His greatest strength for me is Orrery of fates - and thats what wins me games when the prime wins the game. Its like our own once per turn destiny die.

 Sometimes that's a 12 inch charge rather than a guaranteed 3 mw.

[Starcast - The Thread]

2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

add aetherwings

Just plugging in a raptors with a few aetherwing units might be real nice.

Yeah, I think it's too early - Saturday we'll know more! Might try my traditional idea, might try out Kroak for the first time (if he's the same or near enough the same cost).

 

[Starcast - The Thread]

3 hours ago, Maturin said:

Are you talking about those two lists I made for GA: Order ?

OR
 

Or this one for SCE by Marcvs ?
 

The SCE can't allow you to use Teclis as an ally as he costs too much.
But GA : ORder allows you too, and that's where he shines, with a 18" 5+ FNP.

GA:Order is another angle I think would be nice for sure, but I would rather it's a new thread (that I could link in the first post. As ppl with a bunch of SC models might feel super betrayed jumping in here and seeing "take a drake and a prime, a caster and a comet then everything else from other factions"

[Starcast - The Thread]

OK so I've had a thought and, maybe, the first list I built forgets bout Kroak (I'll get more interested in him again if we hear his points are still 400 or lower), we're going traditional and shoring up some weaknesses whilst keeping roughly the same model and wound count:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Armour of Destiny
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2140 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86
 

Bear in mind that I'm not 100% sure on the points leaks at the moment.

What do we think?

Also, what, in general, do people think Starcast's biggest weakness is?

• Delicate characters?  Errant Questor perhaps.
• Casting? Kroak was great but if he's gone Exorcists are pretty cheap now. Incantors are there to guarantee unbinds as well.
• Bodies? Use the points over in traditional lists for the cheapest chaff (once we know the points of all Order units).

I also think LRL as allies makes things interesting as well.  @Marcvs (I believe) has already written about that above. His lists are sound.

[Starcast - The Thread]

9 hours ago, Nizrah said:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Celestant-Prime (300)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
- General
- Staunch Defender
- STORM WINGED
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Stormlance
Lord-Exorcist (90) - wow thats cheap
Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger - (200) - d6 heal is useful
Lord-Castellant (120)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total:  2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400

Idk about artefact, without ignax we lack MW protection. So i consider this staff thats deal d6 mortals to random unit or idk.

My new look at Starcast. What do you think?

I like this too, I've been looking at what the points reductions can bring.

The d6 heal sounds fantastic - until it whiffs and that's my only concern with those 200 pts. Plus taking an Lord Arcanum always makes you ponder Sequitors HOWEVER, new points on liberators mean they're really quite a cheap battleline tax. Plus without ignax, a general with 8 wounds (or is it 7 even?) feels risky.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

5 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Were you the one who put up the Stardrake + Prime Time list on The Honest Wargamer last year? If so, thank you!

Rob streamed a game with that list, and it was love at first sight. Played variations on the theme from Sep 2019-Feb 2020. So much fun. 

Yeah I played against Eels and Gotrek and I would have had a better chance if I hadnt made 2 silly decisions which was against my own strat when I set up - under pressure at the streaming table

My opponent was a great player too.

I think the most fun I had during the game was when I took out his Akhelian King with the prime. It was a "you can't target him to shoot him!" moment countered by "Well I'm targetting the ground beside him here actually". We played competitive but understanding which I love!  No hard feelings, no double checking the opponents measurements for charges/ deepstrike blocking etc

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

RE: synergy

SC are weird - kind of cool. The synergy isn't often 2 warscrolls buffing each other which can be common in other armies. Buffs from traits or hosts (battletome) are more the order of the day.

& I find the most synergistic play with Stormcast comes with how you play. To some extent all armies are like this - it's the game. It just feels like a lot to bear in mind with how the units move and trigger effects - even though they've no rules like CoS or Lumineth for standing in a type of unit formation.

Everything has to be deployed right, played right or you have a bad time. If you stick with Stormcast you learn how to play to their (and your) strengths. You have to or you get very disheartened.

I think what I'm mainly getting when I play against some of the tougher list matchups, is a feeling of stretching every bit of fibre of a faction - squeezing juice till there's no juice left - just to play on equal terms. That is, for me, kind of fun. I earn nearly all victories I have (even with a B.S. support hero elimination list like Starcast :P) because if I mistakes victory turns quickly to defeat.

It would be much easier to play a low model count army with say, terrorgheists but I dig a lot of SC.

I've played them in almost every tournament I want to enjoy because they stretch the brain so much - plus I'm a slow painter    

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

1 hour ago, Maturin said:

Are you sure about that ? I'm not a native speaker but the way it's worded seems to say : You got 1 roll of dice with reroll allowed (like Sigmarite shields) but that's it. If you roll with your armour save you can't use another one.

Unless armour saves are not an ability and then you have still normal save + 1 ability.

To clarify, that new rule is referring to negating wounds allocated - allocation of wounds comes after failed armour saves.

[Starcast - The Thread]

My group has stopped using malign sorcery artefacts anyway so I'm not super fussed. 

Points drops pretty much across the board is quite nice. Lots to fiddle with before the new tome

 

[Starcast - The Thread]

27 minutes ago, Maturin said:

We'll always end up deploying last, unless you play a 2000pts Skyborne slayers with no other units besides those of the batallion.

OK, ok... hear me out:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammer & Shield
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammer & Shield
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammer & Shield
Drakesworn Temple (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108

No please! Don't leave the topic just yet. I can explain lol.

Remember, Libs are getting a points drop ... plus em... hahaha I got nothing.

I'm not so sure it's a bad idea, though 4 drops will still not outdrop the 1-2 drop power houses.

PS: Come the new tome, if they buff the hell out of liberators, this is the kind of list I'll play lol.

[Starcast - The Thread]

Also, this is good news:

"while other options have gone down in points (looking at you Liberators and Putrid Blightkings)"

[Starcast - The Thread]

Yeah Im gonna get him done. I mean, in fairness, LRL - following from Seraphon - aren't going to end pure SC lists. If you have to play pure SC you have a few options and Starcast is one of them.

It may be that it's tough against LRL with Starcast (I think the list has a few tools to  make it tough in return mind you) but that applies to the rest of the factions in the meta too.

We shall see.

[Starcast - The Thread]

Are we leaning towards me not cleaning up, gluing together and painting my Lord Kroak model then? 😛

Teclis and 10 new archers might be simplest experiment (quickest to paint). Ofc one can boot up tabletop simulator again - but its not like I found time for that either haha. I usually find 1 - 1.5 hrs every 2 nights to paint andthen play tournaments when they pop up

[Starcast - The Thread]

48 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

here we are slipping towards a LRL list

The more you play in scrollbuilder the more it feels like when trying to add CoS units to SC - and they HAVE the 1 in 4 SC unit perk. Seraphon worked because you took Kroak and he was a perfect piece in the list. I think, so long as he survives GHB points cost adjustments, that's probably still the best Starcast list we have.

48 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

gets you an incantor + comet

To even say "starcast" I think we'd need this. Though the list can be totally new, Stormcast separated and just "Starsplash" lol
 

21 minutes ago, Maturin said:

If turn 1 you destroyed all enemy support heroes and damaged big monsters, it's almost over for the opponent.

Exactly, that's the core ideology of Starcast as a list. The extra tools (for me when I use it) are the beef of 2 dragons against hordes (combined with the maw attacks for hard to shift models of like 3 wounds and under).

 

26 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Allegiance: Order
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Command Trait: Master of Defense
Celestant-Prime (340)
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
The Light of Eltharion (220)
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 87

I love this except for painting 50 non SC models (when we really hope for a SC reboot soon) I'll be done by the time SC battletome arrives and it's square one again

So I think there are two things to do - if one is bored:

1. build the best new list in light of  LRL with as many SC models as possible (so that SC players here with no budget, no time to paint etc) can field a force relatively quickly with a few choice models.

2. Leave SC behind apart from those elements (if any) that support a "Starsplash" way of life.

[Starcast - The Thread]

If some people are interested in taking the spirit of starcast to a mixed order list, I've a few questions for you:

Is it worth taking Teclis AND Kroak? If the best list chooses between, which do you take?

What battleline is strongest? LRL can lock down 2 with Wardens and and sentinels (I think).

Would you take Prime? Stardrake(s)?

[So what's next for Stormcast?]

The unfortunate part is that fixing warscrolls is time invested in minimal returns. Creating new warscrolls sells models.

I'm not saying it's impossible that they'll fix warscrolls. I just think it might not be the grand change ppl are hoping for.  Maybe a rebuilt series of faction rules and stormhost rules would accomplish the same - then ppl would at least need to buy a tome to unlock.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

1 hour ago, Maturin said:

@Turragor Thing is, I started playing SCE in 2018. My first list was a 1250 points tournament using "Skyborne slayers". It's an outdated yet effective battalion if you mix it with other stuff. Tbh, if you like paladins, you should try something around it.

Yeah I like Skyborne Slayers but have never played them at a tourney. When I first started playing (pre-ghb with different comp point systems) I was fond of Hammerstrike Force if I wanted to take Paladins. I think Skyborne Slayers is decent still, the all in one drop is the only problem.

But I digress, whilst I like the idea of playing lots of SC foot-troops, I'm a complete Starcast fanatic. I mean, and this is amusing, I found my thoughts and "list plan" after the very first AoS tournament (no - very first tabletop game tournament) I played , it was posted right on these boards in my backwards Swedish (which is a bit better now haha)

Leaders
Lord Celestant On Stardrake (600)
Celestant-Prime (360)
Lord Castellant (100)
Units
Judicators x 5 (160)
- Skybolt Bows
Judicators x 5 (160)
- Skybolt Bows
Liberators x 5 (100)
- Warhammers and shields
Concussors x 2 (280)
Fulminators x 2 (240)
Total: 2000/2000

That's the original birth, I guess, of my own Starcast type list ha

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

4 hours ago, Maturin said:

Starcast will be heavily nerfed because of that.

In a word, yes. That being said, there is only a very thin string of sinew holding Starcast to the main Stormcast body. A very small part of it is pride (the point is to try to get another SC list that's semi decent into the meta). Then the rest is Staunch Defender. I 'spose a little is deepstriking.

Basically, until the new tome comes, each little cut that weakens SC lists are just an incentive to think out of the box with an Order list with mostly SC models.

I want to use the masses of SC models I've painted basically, it's not about taking the best list / army at a given time.

And then, within probably 6 months or so (total guess) SC will have a new book and we will see what we'll see.  I will make Starcast live on in spirit - though it will certainly change form.

Tbh I've got a real hankering for Paladincast - have for ages. I want to play with the 15 seq, 15 libs, 10 juds, 20 paladins I own and have ppl be fearful instead of joyful

[Starcast - The Thread]

1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

(fun fact: if this happens, it will stop me from using Kroak in SCE before I had a single occasion to put it down on a physical table.

Exactly like myself!

Anyway, Im holding off on any list crafting until I read a bit more about LRL and see the new GHB - soon here! I got  a feeling we'll see new SC by end of this year or start of next.