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Turragor

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Posts posted by Turragor

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by Turragor

    While I'm kind of pissed and kind of amused that their solution to what's wrong with SCE is "just give them CoS units" :D ...

    I'm also thinking this opens up a lot of options! CoS units fit in really well.

    There are 2 main styles that I see -

    1. Focusing on more of what Starcast does and doubling down on weaknesses
    2. Shoring up those weaknesses (and trimming some mw scatter damage from list)

    If I can find any games in the current "lockdown 2: the re-lockdownening" period, I might try out some unpainted, proxy stuff.

    For reference (and we may get more rules previews):

    image.png.e4cd34f3b03f65088947233fc7478640.png

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by Turragor

    On 10/11/2020 at 9:52 PM, Marcvs said:

    Still, I have the feeling that I have extracted as much "value" as possible from this list and, barring some new elements, I think the meta keeps getting worse for a) an elite build and b) a build based on limited bu targeted output.

    Yes, I think starcast is nearly perfected - as good as it can be.

    On 10/12/2020 at 11:43 AM, Ymh said:

    Hi @Marcvs , thanks for your feedback very interresting. French guy here too, I will try a Starcast too for another tournament, I think less competitive than yours.

    What is your point of view about Castellant ? I removed him from my list. For my point of view each time I played him, Stardrakes were very strong sure but if my opponent has lot of MW that was not efficient. Staunch defender + perfect plate do the job enough and Castellant is not essential I think.

     

    Small pics for my Starcast army

    aJ2SzDd.jpg

    What is this ultra sexy army? Fantastic :D

    • Like 2

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by Turragor

    14 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

    Looking at the Gargants, and fully acknlowedging that we don't know the full picture yet, it seems another army which counters a starcast build pretty easily -due to a) the huge number of wounds on each model, b) the "count as X models" rule for objectives (one mega gargant counts for more models than my whole list), c) high rend on the megas attack means that even a fully buffed stardrake will fall in 2 or 3 rounds of combat. Incidentally, they also look like yet another army which stormcast in general simply cannot engage in melee, pushing more and more towards the shooting build

    I would agree. On the one hand few factions can truly build a list that can take all comers. So matchups play a role. On the other hand, SC (and other factions ofc) are very weak against most of the new factions released this year IE the most popular armies in the meta, soooo...yeah. :P

    /edit at the same time ... I would rather face the gargants than 6 stonehorns :P

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    On 9/13/2020 at 2:28 PM, Marcvs said:

    For the nom-SCE Starcast:  A GA:Order with teclis, the kroak bundle and our favourite dragon came 3rd at a Swiss tournament.

    IMG_20200913_142531.jpg

    Love this, the Arkanaut company I've always had an eye on. How big was the tourney? What lists did the GA:order list meet?

    That said, I think a reply I gave a while back still stands, a list with a bunch of new models to paint isn't going to ignite my interest when everything (hopefully) changes soon.

    I think running this with 3 x 5 libs would, unfortunately, not be anywhere near as good.

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    On 8/16/2020 at 9:55 PM, Nizrah said:

    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
    Mortal Realm: Chamon

    Leaders
    Drakesworn Templar (420)
    - General
    - Tempest Axe
    - Command Trait: Staunch Defender
    - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
    - Mount Trait: Storm-winged
    Celestant-Prime (300)
    Lord-Exorcist (90)
    - Spell: Lightning Blast
    Lord-Castellant (120)
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - Allies

    Battleline
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers

    Units
    10 x Evocators (420)
    - 5x Grandstaves
    - Lore of Invigoration: Terrifying Aspect

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Everblaze Comet (100)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 260 / 400
    Wounds: 102

    This list is bonkers! I took first place :). The only thing i would change i think is 10 Grandstaves for evocators. I think it could be better.

    Quick summary: First game vs my nemesis tzeentch (changehost). Draw. We played only 2 turn cuz we run out of time, if we could play third rund i would win.
    Second game vs OBR (Katakros, Arkhan, 100 morteks). Major win. He took first turn and cover about half of the table. I dropped on his back, make charge on 9 with reroll, then killed 10 morteks on his back, win double turn and and charged and killed katakros. He surrender then. 
    Third game vs Seraphons. Major win. 
     

    I  like the look of this one too :)

    • Thanks 1

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    On 8/12/2020 at 6:53 PM, Nizrah said:

    I make general reductions, like templar not lcosd, 3x5 libs and kroak to take 10 evocators on foot. Lets see how it gonna work. 

    yeah my biggest piece of advice for working with starcast lists (any lists) is to change out components one at a time - rather than change a list wholesale.

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Naem said:

    Man I am really bummed that Kroak seems to be such a must. Is there any way to replace him with anything, maybe a Lumineth caster? Cause I really don't like the model just aesthetic wise.

    It's just unfortunate that he slots so well into Starcast type lists. I don't believe he is so popular in any other SC list.

    It may be as strong in terms of spell denial to take Incantors to his points cost. You just will be missing out on a bit of Kroak's damage and CP. I love Incantors.

    If you wanted you could trial other lumineth allies - maybe not casters but their archer for instance look promising.

    Original Starcast works nicely too, you might incorporate more libs as above, or Prime and 2 dragons even.

    I find it productive to test out ideas before getting too excited or too down. The one caveatI'd share now is, given ppl expect a new SCE tome within, let's guess, 6 months, being able to improve results right now with 1 model bought and painted trumps buying and painting say 20 or 30.

    For example, I bought and painted 30 vulkite berserkers 3 years ago maybe and had them in a starcast ish list as the WALL OF UNSTOPPABLE MW SAVES. They were GREAT but now they're not worth anything in my lists - new Fyreslayers tome killed them as allies.

    I am far more comfortable for Kroak to sit on a shelf for years (I doubt I'll play seraphon - like I doubted I'd play Fyreslayers).

    • Like 1

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by Turragor

    13 hours ago, Nizrah said:

    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
    Mortal Realm: Chamon

    Leaders
    Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
    - General
    - Celestine Hammer
    - Command Trait: Staunch Defender
    - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
    - Mount Trait: Storm-winged
    Celestant-Prime (300)
    Lord-Castellant (120)
    Knight-Incantor (120)
    - Spell: Chain Lightning
    Lord Kroak (320)
    - Allies

    Battleline
    10 x Liberators (180)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 2x Grandhammers
    10 x Liberators (180)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 2x Grandhammers
    10 x Liberators (180)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 2x Grandhammers

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Everblaze Comet (100)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 320 / 400
    Wounds: 102

    What do you think of this? Maybe more liberators will help on obj game. 

    I say give it a whirl, I would miss the Templar (for his pile in reducing axe) in some matchups. Perhaps, though, more libs & the prime add more than you lose. There's no way to guess! Test away :D

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    21 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

    I will say that Kroak is a MAJOR factor, the list is nowhere near the same level without him and he did major damage and fed my army with CP all the time, letting me reroll 1s to hit, use realm commands and reroll mount wounds basically all the time, making the concussors beasts, my opponent who lost 10 hearthguard to their charge alone and then could not pile in due to their 6s, was stunned, most people have never even tried playing against concussors ;) 

    Yep Kroak is amazing. With the amount of CP I think concussors are a good shout definitely.

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    You met some tough lists! And played great it seems :)

    If anything, playing SCE and dragging these results against the grain and opposite to the widely popular opinion that SCE cannot win (see stats breakdowns on other sites), is just going to lead to a surge of impressive victories next battletome...

    Which might lead to a host of nerfs - I hope they're more in the 40k style (v space marines) this time haha

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

    My preference is that when I’m given a vaguely worded rule that can be interpreted in one of two ways, I choose the one that is worse for me instead of best.

    My current preference is to ask TOs before the tourney how they want me to play these kinds of rules in my SC lists. So I save myself the bother on the day. It's usually this and Stormwinged  (which I did a massive analysis of in the Starcast thread - but I never want to make a tourney opponent read it haha)

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

    Regarding Celestant Prime, I got into a discussion regarding his "retribution from on high", we have been playing it with the Scions of the storm rule of 1 unit on the table for each in the celestial realm, however I got to thinking, that nothing on the Primes warscroll mentions this and the ability seems completely unrelated.

    For example, would it then not be possible to have 3 units of liberators on the board and 3 in the celestial realm and then also the prime in the heavens in reserve?

    Yep, the Prime's deepstrike rules are separate from faction rules. He can be up after r3 and he can be +1 in the sky. He doesn't count as 1 of the units in the army in the sky.

    • Like 1

    "Rules Light" -------> "Rules Hidden" / & the return of Techhammer...

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    I think this is a great chat to have. There was that push a while back for AR type games wasn't there? Physical card games (like Pokemon or something) that also had a coupling to a playstation or whatnot.

    Anyway, the models are key for me. I also like some of the other physical elements of gaming -  rolling dice for instance. I put that down to the same factor  (whatever it is) that makes playing chess or cards physically better than on a computer.

    I don't like rules referencing that much. I especially don't like the amount of rules material you have to have on the table - taking away from terrain and models.

    I think this is some very interesting stuff. An enterpeneurial company in the industry (with an existing model base - to avoid any kind of legal repurcussions) could (should) use this concept to build a kickstarter that would probably break some records.

    • Like 1

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Marcvs said:

    As for the Fyreslayers with pole axes, it's quite sad: with ignax I once managed to tank two full units for a few turns (thanks to the healing), but now it's really hard

    I'd recommend pinning a corner of the unit with the drake with tempest axe. If it can. Then the main drake in the other corner. If suitable. 1"pile in can make this survivable 

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    5 hours ago, rosa said:

    So, let's all post and discuss new all-comers lists with the new point adjustments.

    How would a new allrounder list look like?

    Most recent Starcast list I tested:

    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
    Mortal Realm: Chamon
    Lord Kroak (320)
    - Allies
    Drakesworn Templar (420)

    - Mount Trait: Storm-winged
    Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
    - General
    - Celestine Hammer
    - Command Trait: Staunch Defender
    - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection

    Lord-Castellant (120)
    Knight-Incantor (120)
    - Spell: Chain Lightning
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    3 x Aetherwings (40)
    3 x Aetherwings (40)
    Everblaze Comet (100)
    Balewind Vortex (40)

    • Thanks 1

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by Turragor

    Ok! I played last night against Skaven (a nice list, well captained) in new Battle for the Pass.

    My opponent had something like:

    Spoiler
    Allegiance: Skaventide
    Grey Seer (140)
    Verminlord Warpseer (320)
    Warlock Engineer (110)
    Warlock Engineer (110)
    40 x Clanrats (200)
    - Rusty Spear
    40 x Clanrats (200)
    - Rusty Spear
    20 x Clanrats (120)
    - Rusty Spear
    1 x Doomwheel (150)
    3 x Stormfiends (260)
    Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
    Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

    Total: 1970 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 169
     

    I took:

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
    Mortal Realm: Chamon
    Lord Kroak (320)
    - Allies
    Drakesworn Templar (420)

    - Mount Trait: Storm-winged
    Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
    - General
    - Celestine Hammer
    - Command Trait: Staunch Defender
    - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection

    Lord-Castellant (120)
    Knight-Incantor (120)
    - Spell: Chain Lightning
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    3 x Aetherwings (40)
    3 x Aetherwings (40)
    Everblaze Comet (100)
    Balewind Vortex (40)

    1970

    I was v rusty and made a bunch of mistakes and suffered a major loss, but had fun and have a few things to think about.

    The good

    Kroak - As it was first game with Kroak I'm not sure if I saw his true potential. HOWEVER, I did have like 7 CP in round 2 which is a bit above average but not having to worry about when I wanted to use "All out attack" - for instance - was excellent. I think, with so many CP my idea of a Kroak anvils list is decent buuut I'm not sure if losing Staunch is worth it. I love and hate Staunch. You'd also lose the peppery plate of perfect perfecly perfect perfection (see below) which is another large blow.

    The ability to challenge in the enemy hero phase was also excellent and really kept me in the game against all the Skaven casts.

    With the 2x Drakes his casting is almost unchallenged. Almost. Putting mystic shield on the Templar is also lovely.

    Peter Perfect's Plate of Perfectly Perfect Protection  - If TOs allow the new realm artefacts, take this. It is a headache for the opponent and perfect synergy on the LCoSD. It's that simple, we've nothing better to take as an artefact right now.

    Everblaze Comet - And I only got one cast off this game due to some poor luck :D Still it earned its early points I feel. It stopped a Warplighting cannon from advancing on one flank and did it's usual glut of mw.

    Stormwinged - I love it. Our one current tome strength is the potential to take Stormwinged x 2. With Kroak CP this and 2 drakes could be heinously nasty.

    The bad

    Mortal Wounds - ofc... my opponent had terrible luck with his warplightning cannons but all the same I had to move my LCoSD forward to challenge an objective/clear clanrats and he overcharged and put 8mw on the drake. He took 7 mw back but the damage was done. I was unaware of the Verminlord Warpseers once per battle instant d6 mw attack so in one round the Drake was out :S Ignax  IS missed but this just changes the paradigms - the methods of playing with the LCoSD.

    Subconsciously - and this is why I lost - I believe I was playing like Starcast without Kroak, with Ignax, pre-covid :P. I know better but ofc when you're playing a game you still make some decisions based on what was good in previous games with similar lists.

    Liberators - Am I allowed to put them here? We all know it but still. I explained a few times to my opponent what they were like as he was making decisions "what's their bravery? What save? What kjnd of damage do they do?"  I basically told him they were awful. Funnily enough, one survived against the odds and blocked up his flank for 1 extra turn but pure luck can't move them out of the bad zone. We're stuck with them though.

    The maybe

    Aetherwings - This is maybe unfair on the scroll because I used them wrong, but without raptors I do think they're not outstanding (if the opponent takes them out). Ignoring them would make them amazing. With hindsight I can also see them working very well for me in some matchups. Are they better than the other options I'd have with the 110 points (40 x 2 + 30) I have left over? That I'm not sure of. Hence "maybe" for now.

    Templar v Prime - This is a tough one. I rolled poorly for Rain of stars so I left the opponent with a decent amount of options which (in the double turn he got) he exploited well. The prime would have removed more support (and then admittedly died to warplightning cannons soooo ... I'm just not sure! I'd lose +1 to cast on Kroak/Incantor too.

     

    Rough Conclusion

    Taking nothing away from a well played list under my opponent, I think without MW he'd have trouble doing anything to my list and my challenge would have been removing his units from objectives. Which I'd not be too worried about due to how well the drakes can clear hordes.

    Even with Battleshock immunity I totally ended 40 clanrats in one phase with the LCoSD and some chip damage from hero phase/shooting phase mw.

    ... That said, he DID have mw and, though maybe above average in the potential to generate them, he didn't have the MOST in the meta.  So there will be some very tough matchups for Starcast/Kroakcast.

    I've a bunch of other thoughts to digest but I'm happy with Kroak tbh. I don't think those 320  points are better spent in Starcast lists - right now. Mayybe The lumineth archers but I'm not sure about that. With an Incantor and Kroak you do so much good work.

    I am comfortable proceeding (and hopefully getting some tourney games in) with the list I took with some tweaks as my main competitive SC list.

     

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    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by Turragor

    5 hours ago, Marcvs said:

    FAQs for the remaining battletomes are up. Crazy as it is (and if my eyes do not deceive me) Lord Kroak stays at 320pts https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/i7eUTesWE3W9jq39.pdf

     

    EDIT: so with minimum changes this would be my KroakCast 2020

      Hide contents
    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
    Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
    - General
    - Celestine Hammer
    - Command Trait: Staunch Defender
    - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
    Drakesworn Templar (420)
    - Tempest Axe
    - Mount Trait: Storm-winged
    Lord-Castellant (120)
    Knight-Incantor (120)
    - Spell: Chain Lightning
    Lord Kroak (320)
    - Allies
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    3 x Aetherwings (40)
    Everblaze Comet (100)
    Balewind Vortex (40)
    Umbral Spellportal (70)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 320 / 400
    Wounds: 86
     

    One thing I am consdiering is swapping Umbral + Birds for a Relictor

    Like the Relictor idea. In most matchups thats gonna give you something extra. I think you can fit in a Venator too ... Though they are always random as anything.

    I (hopefully) get to play tomorrow so, depending on how I feel - or my opponents face :D - I'll take the relictor variation, the 2x3 Aetherwings variation or this little idea:

    Spoiler
    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
    Mortal Realm: Chamon
    Lord Kroak (320)
    - Allies
    Celestant-Prime (300)
    Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
    - General
    - Celestine Hammer
    - Command Trait: Staunch Defender
    - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
    - Mount Trait: Storm-winged
    Lord-Castellant (120)
    Knight-Incantor (120)
    - Spell: Chain Lightning
    Lord-Relictor (100)
    - Prayer: Translocation
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    3 x Aetherwings (40)
    3 x Aetherwings (40)
    Everblaze Comet (100)
    Balewind Vortex (40)
    Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 320 / 400
    Wounds: 89
     

     

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by Turragor

    2 hours ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

    Orruks, fyreslayers, Ogors, DoK for example.

    I like how @PrimeElectrid applied a logical thought process to list building and I think you pose a good question in the follow up. I like how a buffed Stardrake will hold up some decent melee armies -

    2 hours ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

    My starting point is actually the Tauralon. This is now 280 points, which is only 20 higher than the gryph charger started (lol), for a 10 wound leader & monster that flies (#1 & #2). Staunch Defender gets it to 2+, mirror shield makes him -2 to hit by missile weapons

    I basically apply this logic (though right now the potential great artefact is the new ignore rend 1 realm artefact - if it is allowed by a TO) to a drake.

    The cost here is much more than 280 though - 420 for a templar (tempest axe stopping pileins at 1" is good) but an LCoSD ticks more survivability boxes. Though you always need to add a Castellant - so the cost IS prohibitive and for this reason once you add a drake you're back to a "drake list".

    I'll go back to my corner now and stop trying to make ppl play Stardrakes :D

    • Like 1

    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by Turragor

    Ok this is my first list to try out, should get a game Tues :


    Lord Kroak (320)
    Drakesworn Templar (420)
    - Tempest Axe
    Knight-Incantor (120)
    Lord-Castellant (120)
    Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
    - Celestine Hammer
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    5 x Liberators (90)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    3 x Aetherwings (40)
    3 x Aetherwings (40)
    Everblaze Comet (100)
    Balewind Vortex (40)
    Quicksilver Swords (30)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 92
     

    I think the Aetherwings are so cheap and fast that even with no raptors they are near auto include 

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    Starcast - The Thread

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by Turragor

    2 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

    So what do you think, does a +1 save spell sound so bad compared to the above? I think not, but of course that is an opinion, but having access to maybe 1 unit getting a +1 save buff seems far less impactful than unbinds everywhere or constant access to teleporting for 1 CP.

    Yes I think its this kind of imbalance in the realms that'll probably lead to a blanket ban of them -  or at least the CA/spells. Especially with a Teleport on offer.

    Having said that,  maybe TOs let the artefacts slide through. That'd be nice!

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