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Turragor

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Posts posted by Turragor


  1. 4 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

    At the same time you will find a lot of KO complaints isn’t just how bad the army it it’s the weird focus on troop spam

    This is also 100% valid when buying an army. Stats show tournament lists. Some fun lists get taken there but they may draw down the average win rates only. 

    Again though, when tiering should we discount the fun factor? 


  2. 31 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

    Like anything to do with stats to make them relevant you need to do some analysis or it's just a picture of what has happened. 

    For example at less than 1% of the meta, OB's stats are absurd. So to me the first question if I'm looking at competitive stats is who has the best OB match up in their current meta-state and who has a similarly untenable match up at the moment. The same can be said with Big Waagh. 

    Regardless of the power some factions can throw around and historical match win percentage that number is going to be a whole lot different in a post-OB world if OB reaches say 3%. Something that is interesting to me is that OB seem to have at least 30% top tens on 3 wins, which would say to me that OB are tabling people in some match ups. Where as say HoS the pantomime villian has less than 6%. Which to me confirms what I've always thought HoS smash or have a very close game on the competitive circuit. Personally I'd like to see more complete stat documents, namely including match up and scores. Because margin of victory is a huge factor we almost never consider.

    If people are making purchase choices for the future the stats need analysis, not just description.

    This is a very good point. This topic is about tiering and stats are King there (but analysis of those stats are important). 

    However if you're buying based on stats and tiers you might end up disappointed. 

    Not all your games will be tournament games against tournament lists. 

    A faction with a 50% win rate where the losses are all close fought might be much better than a faction with a 55% win rate where the 45% are all being tabled. 

    Is that separate from tiering though? 


  3. Most of this thread doesn't give any valuable information that could be used to build an AoS tier list.

    There is however plenty of anecdotal listing going on, based on:

    • What people feel the relative strengths of factions are
    • Their biases
    • What they've read (a majority of what is available to read is anecdotal)
    • Their own games played

    It's like a bunch of football fans talking ****** in a pub while drunk. They may be right on a few things but it's no way to build something that, say, the bookies will use to establish odds for teams and player performance.

    https://thehonestwargamer.com

    Has the most accurate data available (it's not something that's "complete" but there's nothing else that compares).

    Here's the latest (and this is match win % sorted, not top 10s, not 5 wins > 4 Wins):

    13-12-19-04.png

    Now that's not the whole story, but it's data. Impartial. It means more than opinion (when trying to work out tier listings).

    Seems like ppl often get the top tier right but when it comes to everything else, I'm guessing the faction they collect (and lose 50% of matches with against their gaming group) is shoved to the bottom. They are fishing for faction buffs. Everyone wants faction buffs.

    Case in point: Kharadron, with a 48.3% win rate they are 16 of 34 in that listing (albeit, some of the factions at the bottom shouldn't really be counted imo), 4th best Order faction. Better than CoS (which includes Tempest Eye). That's based on match win %, the other breakdowns on the honest wargamer site give a more complete picture.

    I personally value match win % over top 10 finishes and 5 wins > 4 wins (by those two metrics, CoS beats Kharadron - taking Kharadron as an example again) but that's my own bias. I like that stat.

     

    • Like 1

  4. 2 hours ago, Sception said:

    Whoops, I read your collection wrong.  You said you had two boxes of mortek guard, and in my head that turned into 20 instead of 40.

    As it is, with the lance you're actually over by 20 points, with nothing easy to drop to get back under.  You could drop the lance battalion itself to get to, yes, 1900.  I still definitely recommend getting the endless spells, as endless spells are about the only option OBR has to fill points gaps of 100 or less.  Then you can either go:

    Arkhan
    Liege
    Mason
    2x5 riders
    40 guard
    2x crawler
    nexus
    all three endless spells

    Or alternatively:

    Arkhan
    Liege
    Mason
    2x5 riders
    30 guard
    2x crawler
    kavalos lance battalion
    nexus
    shrieker

    Or even:

    Arkhan
    Liege
    Mason
    2x5 riders
    2x20 guard
    nexus
    soulstealer carrion

    All are, again, maybe not optimal lists, but at least viable enough to get a feel for whether or not you want to take the faction further.  Probably my favorite of the three is the last one that runs the guard as 2x20, letting you cover more of the board/occupy multiple objectives/etc.  Granted, that list makes the decision to go with spears rather than swords on the morteks a bit more suboptimal than it already was, but so it goes.

    If you do decide to expand the collection further, my suggestions stay pretty similar: get a boneshaper, they're a staple unit, and get more morteks.  Beyond that, harvesters and stalkers are decent in and of themselves, and immortis are good with arkhan specifically, who otherwise has issues with getting shot off the table turn one before you have a chance to get protection of nagash up, but those are all pretty pricey units and I don't think you'll really be able to get any of them to work in a list that also runs Arkhan AND deathriders AND 2 crawlers, so at that point you'd be branching into variant builds instead of improving the army you already have.

    Thank you once more! I'll move forward with the building and painting confident that when it's done I've something reasonably solid to test out. I actually just got 3 stalkers ( on sprue) cheap but can't think of where they'd fit in. It gives me the base of the option of taking 6 instead of crawlers in future for example. 


  5. 1 hour ago, NoMaDhOoK said:

    Yeah the stances are really wack. This is stance comparison right now (for a unit of 3 models, all spirit swords) 

    Screenshot_20191213-180727_Chrome.jpg.c4ca0dd076283a5e194e93727e00b811.jpg

    Maybe if the +1 damage was made baseline, and then the reroll all changed to reroll 1s to hit/wound, it would be better internal balance

    Screenshot_20191213-181333_Chrome.jpg.4f3855ef10c4f5fda8d9ff3450b85e7e.jpg

    This does make them slightly more powerful fighting against 6+ saves. They could have even dropped the to_wound to 4+, and the falchions up to 3+ to hit (to actually make them worthwhile) 

    Maybe faqs, errata and rules in general will get tighter if gw uses tools like yours (and others) :)

    I mean they MAY already have something like that going on but I think it's probably taking modifiers and base stat lines from different buckets and assigning points after a series of test games against other factions (and if any are already imbalanced, the teeter-totter effect continues) 

    /edit 

    I don't mean to imply the rules guys don't work hard more that I'm more convinced they create rules based on a kind of organic expertise they've built over years of products and experience rather than based on tools and maths etc 


  6. 16 minutes ago, Sception said:

    If you do, then I'd recommend starting with more Mortek Guard.  They're probably the army's strongest and most points efficient unit, and certainly the cheapest way to put models on the table to try to play the objective game.

    Already (as they are so awesome looking) I'm leaning this way. Probably 20 blade guard instead of all the spears.

    Thank you for the tips!

    BTW isn't it 1900 that I have, and therefore have issues with that battalion (which sounds like a good option), or am I missing something?

    Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
    - Legion: Petrifex Elite
    Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
    Liege-Kavalos (200)
    - General
    - Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
    - Artefact: Helm of the Ordained
    Mortisan Soulmason (140)
    - Artefact: Godbone Armour
    - Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
    40 x Mortek Guard (440)
    - Nadirite spear and Shield
    - 4x Soulcleaver Greatblades
    5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
    - Nadirite Spear and Shield
    5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
    - Nadirite Spear and Shield
    Mortek Crawler (200)
    Mortek Crawler (200)


  7. So I ordered a bunch of stuff as a core of a new Ossiarch army and am starting to build and paint.

    I have:

    2 x Crawler kits

    2 x Mortek Guard kits (I built all spears - rule of cool - and now hear swords win out until you get like 10 extra spear attacks in)

    1 x Arkan kit

    2 x Deathhorsies kits

    1 x Soulmason kit

    1 x Liege Kavalos kit

    Scenery kit

    Whats the best way forward with what I have? What should I take as 2k to test if I want to expand on this army further? Where would I go if I get a proper Ossiarch bug (right now it's kind of a hobby/tourney crossover project).


  8. 2 hours ago, Grimrock said:

    I think beyond the unmodified 6s nurgle also needs some bonuses to cast.

    I'd prefer more durability and more reliable spells than any rend or melee damage bonuses tbh. Feels more in character and is a less crowded spot (I think?). That is if there's a choice to be made there. I don't think OBR are durable and pump out great melee damage with spells. However they can BUILD to swap the melee and spell damage (mostly thanks to adding in Arkhan or Nagash) and keep their durability.

    Not got a lot of experience with Nurgle and am looking at OBR and thinking "hey these petrifex mortek really put pbs to shame survival wise (not counting the damage buffs)" ;)

    • Like 1

  9. I think if you can use the same armies (big square bases with round or square holes to make up units) it will add variety.

    HOWEVER and I mean this as someone who played WHFB long ago, liked the setting but just never liked the complexity of the rules (IE an old player but one who mostly painted)... IF it gets dumpstered again, it might be the funniest thing I will have been near to (community wise) in a long time.

    • Like 2

  10. 1 hour ago, Lucank said:

    Superb!

    Just some Feedback:

    Stonehorn Mounttraits are missing or not shown when stonehorn is picked, there are only the Thundertusk ones.

    Also some Tribe Traits are missing. Can`tr find Bloodgullet artifact Splatter Cleaver too.

     

    Keep the good work !

    I think you've a cache issue, I can see those traits in incognito mode/ cleared cache - not with an older tab I had open though.

    Can you try with a fresh tab and let us know what else isn't there still (if anything)?

    • Like 1

  11. 3 minutes ago, Karragon said:

    Yeah, having checked. SCE, and FEC do not have the restriction (don't have Fyreslayers to check but I don't remember seeing it), Orruks, Cities, Ogors do. 

    Yep Fyreslayers Magmadroths have no duplicate trait restriction. I don't have the Orruk book but I've CoS and I can't find Mount Traits in there at all.


  12. 23 minutes ago, Karragon said:

    He can however take as many mount traits as he has heroes because he's running Boulderhead

    aha, thanks for that correction :)

    And yes it is new (SCE 2.0 tome and the more recent Fyreslayers 2.0 tome do not have the same duplicate mount trait restriction) but I assume it's the way it'll be going forward...

    Unless this is another subtle nod from GW that no other mount is quite like a Stonehorn (and they need exceptions).


  13. 3 hours ago, Haradion said:

     

    Hello people. I am interested in getting into age of Sigmar and find that I really like the playstyle of the Ogor Mawtribes. Low modelcount, and astonishingly powerful behemoths tick all my boxes. I know I want to field at least three Behemoths. Please, how is this looking for a serious list to get involved in the competitive scene at my LGS?

     

    Beastclaw Raiders: Boulderhead Mawtribe

    - Command Trait: Lord of Bones/Beasts (1d4 Chan suggests the former, whilst people below state the later. Either-way, I refer to the ability that reads: Friendly BOULDERHEAD MONSTERS that are wholly within 12" of this general at the start of the movement phase can move an extra 1" when they make a normal move during that phase.

    1x Frostlord on Stonehorn (General)

    - Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn

    - Artefact: Brand of the Svard

    2x Huskard on Stonehorn

    - Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn

    - Blood Vultures

    1x Mournfang Pack

    - Gargant Hackers

    12x Ogor Gluttons

    - Paired Blades

    1x Tyrant

    3x Leadbelchers

    2000/2000

    Am I missing any obvious synergies here?

     

    Generally speaking, how potent do we think this faction will be? Or am I better served going Flesh courts and Zombie Dragons to peruse my behemoth crushing dreams?

    1 quick note: an army may not include duplicates of the same mount trait (Ogor Mawtribes tome p78) & you only hve 1 until you take a battalion. Same as artefacts.

    I love new ogors but am worried for any melee army in the current activation wars. 

    Still think the good lists(of which i think there will be quite a few) are greater than 50% win rate.

    Solid 3 of 5 wins tourney army.


  14. 19 minutes ago, Forrix said:

    On a hobby related note, anyone have any cool Butcher/Slaughtermaster conversions? I'm not really feeling the finecast models.

    I made this one (butcher with cauldron - now slaugthermaster) when I started BCR like 2 yrs ago and I painted up 1k points. I think I'll finish painting this dude now:

    971145745_Screenshot_2019-10-30CraigTurner(thundergore)Instagramphotosandvideos.png.06be29189d6c92ad1794c66561d519f0.png

    1276928069_Screenshot_2019-10-30CraigTurner(thundergore)Instagramphotosandvideos(1).png.cc4b531c90a8ce7afd9df9a45821cf09.png1986896705_Screenshot_2019-10-30CraigTurner(thundergore)Instagramphotosandvideos(2).png.b6096e0f737fa8f6b840767a453c3c07.png

    He is magnetised to the chest and the idea is I'll use him as a huskard for my planned big beasties if I so wish.

    Bonus original composition which was just kitbashing (it changed a lot as I worked):

    1751479624_Screenshot_2019-10-30CraigTurneronInstagramWhentheseshadespireminisaredoneImconvertingagutbusterbutcherwi....png.d9d9e3605ec039468f0a0a7bdf7a7cb9.png

     

    • Like 7

  15. On 7/29/2019 at 10:41 AM, Turragor said:

    Hey guys, 

    @daviseford's project AoS Reminders now includes Maggotkin of Nurgle*!

    If you haven't used AoS Reminders before, it's an automated cheat-sheet for your army! Give it a whirl!

    *So far it is just the battletome units.

    Updates galore for this site at the moment - there are a few dedicated helpers working away!

    Spells are now added, you can add endless spells too, and we've got StD, Tamurkhan's Horde etc added in as units. I think it's just Pestilens to go (BoC too) - but you can always "ally" in units from a faction too while that's in progress.


  16. On 7/30/2019 at 7:13 AM, Turragor said:

    Hey guys, 

    @daviseford's project AoS Reminders now includes Fyreslayers!

    If you haven't used AoS Reminders before, it's an automated cheat-sheet for your army! Give it a whirl!

    I added the faction in so if you have any comments about them  (mistakes, QoL changes) I can gather those and fix them.

    The site now supports spells (prayers included) and endless spells! I have added Fyreslayers.

    • Like 1

  17. 22 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

    Why are people pissed when you're not exactly playing with a top tier army anyway??

    Quite a lot of flanking deployments are 6". And most objectives are 12" in. It's either deliberate to allow capping or to prohibit capping depending on your viewpoint on whether it's cheesy or not ... or its just yet another unexpected interaction from GW ;)

    It 100% depends on an objective being totally unwatched too, mathematically (I believe, I'm terrible at maths) you can only ever get 1 model in this situation - the 1 perpendicular to the objective point (everything else is outside that magic 6" quantum area).


  18. 21 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

    Spume and the kings must be within 6"  of the board edge. The objective must be 12" from the board edge. Do I control that objective? There is an FAQ that says you are within a point on the battlefield if you are EQUAL to or LESS then the specified distance. So the TO sided with me when I showed him this and awarded me the objective, I ended up winning the game because of this. Several people told me I shouldn't have won, and I was being a WAAC player. And I wasn't playing to the spirit of the game essentially.  My opponent (who is a close friend of mine) was really chill about the whole thing. It was everyone else around that were kind of being dicks. The 6" objective capturing bubble should mathematically touch one point on the base of the model that is at the apex of that bubble. Basically because both lines (spume and the objective bubble) meet at the same point, and the FAQ specifices EQUAL TO.. thoughts?

    This exact topic caused a furore in the Swedish AoS FB group :) I'm with letting TOs rule in each case or agree with my opponent beforehand. IE I don't plan to take objectives that way as a suprise to my opponent.  If it comes up, I have no strong opinion but if my opponent was trying to suprise me Id let TOs rule and not get involved too much!

    It's basically too long and complicated to go into with an opponent


  19. I think it's a mistake to try to use real world references to get a feel for what Tithe of Bones is. The music has an Asian steppes feel yes; there's potentially throat singing or synthesized throat singing yes; the architecture could be considered Khmer in style yes; there's a "northern lights" feel to what's over the building yes - but because true originality is almost non-existent, all these relationships you guys are just spotting are just the brainstorming seeds that lead the studio to develop whatever is coming.

    So I think you're all mostly right but in the end it doesn't matter too much. I mean, it WILL be like something ppl are guessing but it's not a code with 1 right answer to be cracked.

    The only thing I know is that I like the feel I get which is a good sign - it should be something new as it is different from all death (if it IS death) so far (death is trite and boring in AoS and needs new blood like steppe style mounted vampire archers).

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 1

  20. I have to add my vote to those who believe this thread (oh so far from rumours now) should be very light on therapy for ppl who are waiting oh so patiently for new toys but more about:

    -Hilarious wishlist fulfilment based on the word "bone"

    -Pie in the sky new faction guesses based on silhouettes

    -Salacious fabrication from nothingburgers (thank you, you forgotten two who steered the convo this way many pages back - I'm catching up after some hiking) 

    -If and only if none of the above can be posted, actual rumours. 

    People, this thread is one of the most entertaining urls on the net because it is like asking a group of 4 year olds to guess who will win the eurovision song contest. 

    It's gold! Rejoice! But don't be too sad or it spoils the atmosphere 

    • Like 5
    • Thanks 1
    • Haha 3
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