Turragor

I think this one is nearest the Starcast spirit (though I like the idea of including paladins chip damage in the mix - for when hand to hand combat starts :P): I like double incantors. The purple sun and geminids give you an endless spell to cast without dispelling a comet (is the points cost for comet at 1500 what puts you off? I'd guesstimate that you might be right, especially when it eats up 1 cast). I do feel like the purple sun might be tough. It's a 6 " range then 9" move and that's v close. Your Drake won't like that if you win an initiative roll and decide to go first. Which banner has the vexillor got? Meteoric? I could make use of the meteoric standard option, instead of the Heraldor, in some lists hmm. It's a bit indiscriminate as its all units (but you'd use it r1) and it doesn't rely on being wholly within 18" of a terrain piece. Often I'd lose a heraldor being aggressive.

I'd prefer the latter but am unsure at the moment. I just assumed the worse case scenario

I think they'd have allegiance abilities but wouldn't be in the battalion ofc Even so, pink horrors are quite nice, though they gain a lot from conflagration subfaction etc in tzeentch

Interesting thing about that battalion is it looks to be super open ended. It's 7 CHAOS ASCENDANT PLAGUEBEARER units together with the heroes. Caps n' bold. So that's keyword right? That means you take 2-3 CHAOS ASCENDANT NURGLE DAEMON HEROES then you can choose from: Poxbringer (up to the 6 Hero max limit) Epidemimus (up to the 6 Hero max limit) Spoilpox Scrivener (up to the 6 Hero max limit) Sloppity Bilepiper (up to the 6 Hero max limit) Horticulus (up to the 6 Hero max limit) Plaguebearers (ofc) & Plaguedrones That's super cool imo - if it's meant to be keyword. So lists like this are possible: Allegiance: Chaos Ascendant Munificent Wanderers Leaders Great Unclean One (340) - Bile Blade & Doomsday Bell Spoilpox Scrivener Herald of Nurgle (90) Epidemius Tallyman of Nurgle (200) Poxbringer Herald of Nurgle (120) Sorcerer (120) Battleline 30 x Plaguebearers (320) 10 x Plaguebearers (120) 10 x Plaguebearers (120) Units 3 x Plague Drones (200) 3 x Plague Drones (200) Battalions Host of Corruption (160) I think it looks like 160 pts? Total: 1990 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 119 It's much better and more flexible than 7 units of plaguebearers. If you keep Nurgle's allegiance it's super good. If not you can run this with Munificent Wanderers or Droning Guard right? That's still pretty hefty. I think there's a case to be made for giving up Nurgle's allegiance if it's what has to be done. To test these new synergies out. Plus the above is a 2 drop due to the sorcerer only. Which is just in there by habit. It's a super flexible 1 drop. Will have to check out this book and keep an eye out for the errata to come...

You actually do want to burn some cp in list one (which is similar to my favourite at the mo minus ballistae) - all out attack on prime is my favourite. You hit on 3s and wound on 2s so rr 1s to hit often gets you 3 hits you can use orrery if you have it to pretty much guarantee 3 saves needed. At - 3 it's pretty much 9 wounds off the bat. Except when you try on a Lord of change and they use destiny dice to auto save ignoring the modifiers Basically I'm leaning towards saying starcast should always have staunch and play defence (albeit moving drakes forward just not charging that much). Aggressive hosts fit other list types better. In my experience which is a lot of defensive builds. So I welcome anyone trying aggressive starcast and providing win ratios, feedback etc

The thing is, multi-stonehorn lists aren't just an issue for SCE but for most of the armies out there right now. Even Tzeentch, Slaanesh or Daughters played a bit carelesly (depending on the scenario/list). Conflagration changehost is probably one of their few weaknesses. I am also nearly 100% certain that the mawtribes players running 4 stonehorn Eurl/Jorlbad lists will soon realise that there is NO downside to ditching the battalion and mournfangs and taking 6 stonehorns. Let's look at how good they are: They're durable. There are few scenarios that call for 6 objectives to be held. Each stonehorn counts as 10 and is very hard to shift. They do anything from a lot of damage to a helluva lot of damage (depending on who they're hitting). They can pick off support heroes like Starcast with blood vulture 2.0 (so good). They can use those and their beastrider crossbows to clear our ultra-chaff aetherwings. They're a 6 drop list so often choose who goes first, they play for the eventual double turn and you're dead. They gain movement bonuses out the wazoo. Reroll charges. They gain +1 wound each and all hero mounts take traits in boulderhead. Weaknesses for me are: Agendas/secondary objectives I don't really want them "fixed". They are finally the fun monster mash build that BCR players had no luck with for years. If I hadn't invested in OBR I'd buy 4 more/paint 5 more to add to my small destruction collection. You are right though that we need to find a way to deal with them - Aetherstrike has a better chance than starstrike I feel (spontaneously). Melee Stormcast has little chance.

How many are we talking about? 1 or 2 might be focused down with a defensive deployment. 6 was relatively hopeless. Id prefer staunch defender over other options. I tried an aggressive host and it didn't go well. Maybe the unkillable star drake with ignaxs scales can hold off a couple.

My latest list drops the templar for an added incantor to go with the exorcist, 6 hurricane raptors and 2x 3 Aetherwings. Just played once with it and won but I am not sure anything on the list bar the LCoSD and Castellant was telling. More testing needed! I did like 2 casters

I want plaguebearers to be good. Maybe this does the trick. My main pain now is though that they get bonuses at 30. I'd really rather take lots of min size units in the battalion.

Played this list in a casual game against a Changehost today and won. The way Tzeentch is built now it's actually easier for the kinds of lists I like. Previously it was next to impossible against changehosts. In this particular game I was unsure about aetherwings and raptors and double caster. But it wasn't a great test.

Aha gotcha

You do heal a bit though and it's all stormcast units within 3" not just the templars. Which is something. You get double stormwing as well. I've been considering testing it tbh but in the potential new change host meta I'm not sure it'd survive. Contrast to my main list which I think has a chance to take out the Lord of change quickly. Need to play a test match or two though

Just 3 Units had points reductions, none of them are particularly OP at reduced pts level. Sounds like it'd be an easy rumour to source, go to official fb page and search for stormcast questions

For a standard model (I'm a slow neat freak) about 2 - 3 hrs ish per model maybe more

For a while I regretted it big time as I've developed a lot as a painter. But now I've reached a compromise with myself where I paint sc so rarely that when I do it's just my neat and fast gold scheme (Ive done it so much). Minimal fun. I then devote lots of time (and colour) to planning and painting other armies.

That is a good question I'm glad I don't have to get to the bottom of that one just at the moment - bed time haha

Added in the Drakes claws (without rr1s to hit v with) supposing you burned another cp on rr failed wound rolls: I think it's quite a strong case for a Heraldor @Nizrah? If I've got all modifiers right. Again, test a few list variants!

But wait now, we can see the plan he (or she) is going for with the stormwing, stormbound blade and vindicators combo: It will work now and again - the exact amount of times it is worth it (and fun!) is the thing you want to playtest to find out. The full combo is lovely: Hero phase Celestial blades for 3+ to wound Move phase 2+ for d3 mw Charge phase 2+ for d3 mw rr hits of 1 D3 extra attacks on blade Combat phase Activate CA for +1 Attacks on melee weapons (is this the claws too? I think it is, it's only artefacts and traits that don't affect mounts unless stated iirc) You could activate LCoSD CA for rr wounds on great claws Activate artefact for +2 Attacks on the blade Activate drake & pile in - 2+ d3 mw Eat if possible & Swing away Merrill Hits of 6 are 3 wound rolls at damage 3 Then swing tail Stars align and you do 9 mw with stormwinged then you might humbly ask your opponent to make 27 save rolls or take 81 damage from the sword alone I've allowed for all buffs and input with (max 3) and without inescapable vengeance (charge), and the reality is more like: Source - https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/ That's for the sword alone and 14.5 is not shabby at all but as you can see, the main downside is the low rend. It will do more damage than a defensive drake list for sure but my only word of caution is that it's adding a tasty offensive bonus to a warscroll that's amazing at holding up against unbelievable odds, reflecting damage and peppering mw from afar, occasionally coming out with the full 3 mw on a target. So I tend to build to support that. The range of staunch is more in keeping with holding the drake within range of buffs - warding lantern and casters in range of arcane lineage (celestial blades range in your list too) and not going all in fast. I think with what you lose out on you need to be more aggressive with the drake as opposed to defensive - each round you're not charging (I think a Heraldor would accentuate your list) into combat is wasting all this focus on a melee beatstick LCoSD. However, ppl say the drake's aren't playable at all and they are wrong. Who's to say this combo (which I've considered) won't work out nicely on the tabletop? I experienced this last Saturday, I could have played without Anvils and not noticed. The threat of it kept ppl on their toes though - they didn't want a protracted drake engagement. Note - I'm terrible at mathhammer and working out what is likely to be good before a game with a list. Hence this whole thread and 2019 / now going into 2020 Starcast project. I need to feel a game before I know good or bad. At least in execution - broadly speaking I know good and bad ideas beforehand.

Test it out and let us know how it goes! It looks solid

Yep they are psychological weapons for us but when they make an impact its a 5 wound hero or half a hammer unit

Indeed I find blending tough, I think either extreme (Starcast or Shootcast) is stronger when pure. That said, I am considering a test with 6hurricane raptors and 2x3 Aetherwings. 380 pts. I'd drop the drakesworn (which is often clutch with tempest axe pile in reduction) first test. Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsMortal Realm: AqshyCelestant-Prime (340)Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Trait: Staunch Defender- Artefact: Ignax's Scales- Mount Trait: Storm-wingedLord-Castellant (120)Knight-Incantor (140)Lord-Exorcist (120)5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (280)3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Aetherwings (50)Everblaze Comet (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 94 The way I play and what I don't like meeting, this could be useful. I'd drop them to be in position to block charges, they could hold objectives and let libs act as speed bumps. They're not bad against the likes of gotrek either.

It was great meeting on total commitment, equally punished I like that we had a great chat during and after the match. Two old stormcast veterans, few warscroll card checks needed. It's like we said we are all practising a faction in a relatively average to poor state and an update will catapult us up the tables with our existing models (unless they just release a new better chamber with battleline elite and sundry again). I love playing starcast but it's got a few hard counters you're almost guaranteed to meet at a big tournament, without lucky match ups. And in a similar vein to anvilstrike, as @jhamslamsays, you don't have the leeway to make mistakes that other factions might do. Until the update (summer this year feels right for the flagship faction) I'll keep fiddling with lists and just learning how to play the elusive perfect tournament game with my list.

I was thinking more of dropping the 2nd drake but then you lose more nice things. Rain of Stars isn't always a failure, bites are supreme right now in many matchups, hordes aren't a problem with only chip damage when you've 2 drakes AND +2 to cast is part of what makes the comet reliable. With 1 drake less it's 5+ instead of 4+ which doesn't seem like much but your success rate goes from 75% to 66% or something

You mean unbind (post r1 where you place them to be sure it's not unbound)? If the opponents would just dispell my comet in my current 1 caster list Id be sooo happy This is true the best order/SC player on Saturday ran Anvilstrike and we had a laugh about how he did not want to meet me at all. He's a good player though and I'd not consider it a done deal right off. He's good with the list, a good SC player and the last two tournaments we've been at together we've matched results. Our specific weaknesses are different just.