DrDemento

Thank you! This is great! So, if your front rank is base to base, is there general consensus that the second rank won’t be in range even if snugged in the cracks? The pics and description indicate you need at least 5mm between front bases for this to work, and maybe more like pick 1 w 20mm spacing in case opponent attempts to keep smaller bases intentionally further away. is there a sort of agreed upon standard (maybe for tourney play) that mitigates the need to get fiddly with the one in measures?

Also, any recent examples of points reductions at the post release FAQ? it seems to me that every 3.0 book is “nerfed” compared to 2.0 in terms of warscroll and allegiance abilities, in the spirit of streamlining, which is fine by me. But, I do think the points seem high.

On a related note, I’ve been so confused reading all the “can’t get second rank attacks with 1” on 32mm”. I thought it has long been established that if you “honeycomb” second rank you’re in range. Is that contested (still)? If so, couldn’t we spread front rank maybe 1/2” apart for second rank to more reliably get the range?

Agree a lot to be disappointed about in these but also need to check ourselves until battletome comes out. Pattern in 3.0 is nerfed/simplified warscrolls in exchange for army wide and sub faction buffs. I think bonesplitterz is a good comparison on several levels. Can easily see army wide 6+ ward as they all have runes in them. Lot of other possibilities. On related note but a bit off topic, I think bonesplitterz might be underestimated and underutilized, especially Icebone sub faction, maybe better than kruleboyz but clearly not Ironjawz is the issue. Icebone does mortals on 6 to wound, extends to rogue idol, and the wurghog prophet is nuts, took down Archaon using the mask in one of my games in a turn and a half! Maybe not as good with the recent nerf to heroic recovery but that wouldn’t have impacted the Archean kill since was not in combat. And the Bonesplittas Waaagh is great with 4+ ward army wide for a turn!!! Anyway, big shift in n 3.0 on balance of power shifting from warscrolls to allegiance and sub faction abilities. Keeping hope alive but prepared to build 10 of my 30 vulkites on sprues as converted chain wielding hearthguard

Yes, it is doable and mentioned previously in this (58 page!) discussion. Easiest is to put the flame strike pole axe chains on their dual axe/war picks or just the handles. Two per model (one per handle) might make them look extra bezerkery and more differentiated from the vulkites. Next hardest is to take extra pole/axe arms from making aurics with magmapikes and cut down the vulkite arms to fit the Hearthguard forearms. It gives different poses, like in motion one handed swinging, which is kinda cool. I’m holding off converting mine until the new book comes out in April/May. Vulkites might become like 1.0 again, when they were the essential unit.

I’m working on a painting up a similar list. What I hear on podcasts is best performing in the meta would be to drop Gotrek for another 20 Hearthguard Bezerkers. I think Auric Hearthguard are good for protecting heroes like the battle smith and rune master. I really really like the magmic invocations as they give some much needed range and mobility with mortal wound output. The lava wall is okay too but the flamespitter and infernoth are great with the Smiter and master combo. Can do all that above if drop Gotrek and a unit of vulkites. I’m sticking with just 20 Hearthguard Bezerkers and try to squeeze in three magmadroths. I hope the winter FAQ adjusts some points downward on the vulkites and magmadroths.

I’m not sure it’s worth it either, but I love modeling so have given it thoughts and might be fun to have some pose variation. I’ll do 20 Vulkites eventually and definitely see there place, but the thought of 30 is daunting and I really went with fyreslayers for the magmadroths!

I’ve given this a lot of thought as I have 30 vulkites on sprue cuz that was the thing in the 1.0 book.... but Yes, idea is to extend axe handles, and also put the throwing axes in the other hand. There are many other subtle differences, like the mohawks, loincloths, and shin guards, but not really noticeable on the tabletop IMO, except the axe blades. maybe ideally mix some bits from the hearhguard sprues, especially leftovers from auric builds. I’ve also thought about putting poleaxe chains on the double axe or pick and axe vulkite builds as I built my hearthguard with the broad axes. Plus I think that would look cool, double weapon chain whirling death!

I had a similar question a page or two back, and more specifically, what if we use extra weapons from the Aurics sprue on the Vulkite bodies?

Agree with these suggestions 100%. Gotta have the Aurics for MW protection on your heroes. Runesmiter in foot to tunnel is a huge thing opponent has to prepare for and gives us major options for objective grabbing, etc.

Has anybody tried using Vulkite Bezerkers to make Hearthguard Bezerkers with spare axes/flails? Do you thinking anyone would object (if I ever played in a tournament setting)? The models seem close enough unless really looking closely at details like loincloths and headgear. I’ve got 30 vulkites on sprue (purchased for last edition vulkite spam and battleline requirements) but probably only need 10 or 20, and have 10 extra sets of axes/flails from making Auric Hearthguard. thanks!

We keep plugging away at ME's and have some good experiences and some frustrating. The main frustrations are the list building, deployment variability, and issues with point scoring for wounds that make horde units questionable. These are also plusses because they shift the meta to make lists and units that don't see a lot of play in 1k or 2k pitched battle scenarios a lot more viable. It's just different but not necessarily simpler, as I was hoping. It is a bit simpler in game play but not in list building as there is so much random variation in deployment with the different missions. Takes a lot more thought on the list building to not get totally screwed in one mission versus another. Synergy and buff planning is really tough. I think the list building learning curve is much higher compared to even 1k pitched battles.

I played against Durthu on Wednesday with a moonclan grot list. It was meeting engagements (which I am not so sure about now as a format, thought it would be simpler and faster but it seems maybe more advanced, but that’s for another thread). Anyway, Durthu was nuts! I’ll have to plan entire lists around countering her now (and also for Mawcrushas and VLoZDs) but makes me think some MSU Squigs are needed as screening speed bumps. Also, we tend to play multiplayer Coalition and Triumph and Treachery games, so there’s VPs for doing wounds, which changes the calculus on horde units a bit. but yes, Itchy Nuisance is key, along with grot netters between fellwaters, and geminids should help counter Durthu

So happy to see a diverse list like this do well and not rely on hearthguard bezerker spam!!! Congratulations! I am painting toward a similar list, but have too many vulkites (30, per my purchase during the last battletome) and not enough of the hearthguard.

I think a unit of 5 Auric Hearthguard is essential for protecting the Battlesmith and Runemaster. I also have a Knight Incantor to try to squeeze in for an unbind and endless spell (Geminids, Pendulum or maybe even Maelstrom for 12" radius bubble unlimited unbinding). I know that 30 Hearthguard Bezerkers is all the rage, but I think it might be a bit overkill and maybe just reinforces moving GW backstock that perhaps didn't sell as well on the first round (last time it was all about the 30 Vulkites). That said, I don't get to play a lot of 2,000 pt games so not speaking from expertise (and don't have nor want to paint 30 Hearthguard).

Thank you, thank you, thank you and all the contributors for doing this! It is a literal game changer for coping with the increasingly complex and deep rules which we love but risks crushing us under its weight, and keeping things a bit more casual and accessible.

I’ve only played a handful of ME games but I’ve been thinking Magmadroth and a runesmiter to deepstrik a unit (although I’m not 100% clear we can use the runesmiter deployment). If not, might need an allied wizard and soul scream bridge (which seems overcosted currently).

Stabbas are better but if you get into bigger units of 60 or maybe even 40 then the spear’s longer 2” range means you’d get 3 ranks of attacks, which starts to tip the balance, which is more pronounced when running sporeplattas and/or sneaky snufflers for the +1 attacks.

I think the list looks great in terms of cool models and playable stuff. For slightly more “competitive” I’d drop one magmadroth and get a foot hero or two (Runemaster if you drop the Smiter on droth, and a foot runeson to boost with the MagmaSon, or maybe Father if you drop the magmason). A unit of 5 Auric HG will protect your Battlesmith and other foot hero. Overall, HG Bezerkers are the best unit so can’t go wrong with more of them. If you want most competitive at 1k (for whatever it’s worth) then I tend to agree with above response and get all foot but will need a Smiter on foot to teleport a unit onto an objective.

I play a lot of 4-player 1k. This is a really solid list. I'd replace the 5 hearthguard bezerkers as Auric Hearthguard if you haven't built them already. Gives a bit of shooting plus protection for nearby heroes. Also consider droptting a Runemaster or Runesmiter to upgrade your Runefather to a magmadroth. Can't comment yet on the vostarg vs. hermdar, except hermdar is definitely better with the hearthguard bezerkers even if just have the unit one unit of 10

I was excited about the terrain placement rules as our group has a hard to break tendency to setup symmetrical placements (though pieces vary). Though now I'm remembering playing an ex-friend in old 40k alternating terrain placement and it was thoroughly unsatisfying in its lack of story or sort of logical placement to maximize tactical advantages. Still looking forward to trying it out. I was happy to see Unique terrain increase to 18" tall (from 10") so we would use Warscryer Citadels, but then saddened that Unique no longer uses the warscroll and only the random table now. So, if I understand correctly, we can use the Warscryer Citadel models without warscroll rules, but what about the garrisoning? Why did Dragonfate Dais go away? I guess it was just damned in the latest warscroll anyway, so not a huge loss to be a random roll as Unique. Mausoleums are a mixed bag in my limited experience. Don't want to put heros in them. Skeletons with banner bravery debuff is nice. Big footprints. I like the idea that LoN has something approximating faction terrain at least. Would rather have a new warscroll for them that makes them proper faction terrain.

My group is super excited about this as we play mostly 1k games (and have been doing 1 battleline as well). I'm not happy about one endless spell limitation but it's not a deal breaker - mostly a way to fill in points to make 1k but I think also balances some lists, but could also be abused at 1k. Triumphs are fine too though. I think breaking into 3 deployments will also be much faster than 1k already is compared to 2k. At least for our group, with lots of different armies we own and like to play, everyone seems to be on constant learning and lookup to confirm mode, plus always trying to bring in new players (who can get overwhelmed easily). Plus, we'd be more likely to get to turn 5 as we mostly seem to be only able to complete Turn 2 and part of Turn 3 on weeknights. Really hoping we also get multi-player game support at this level, as that is also what our group mostly does - four to six players on the table at 1k each.

I had the same questions about behemoth leaders in the spearhead, and I'm not a break the game type of player. I'll be fine either way, but this, like many other aspects even in full 2k AoS will need some clarifications and FAQs.

If you want to stay 1-drop with this vibe, add gobbapooza with battalion and then the moonclan scrap super battalion with a shaman and loonbosses (up to three if you want to use all four artifacts available). Gives three casters so endless spells still useful. Would have to cut down the big fanatic unit but could manage the 60 grot unit. I’m not sure this is optimal though as it will lack heavy hitting or survivable heroes...It’s on my list to try out. Squig super batallion might be the better 1-drop for alphastriking. To maximize -1 to hit, in another game recently I used fellwater trolls wrapped with grots between and behind with netters at front between the trolls. Gives -2 to hit the trolls and -1 on the grots. Our group was very impressed with the overall combo including fanatics at 430 points. Has big initial punch, staying power, and sustained output from the trolls. Couldn’t 1-drop around this but maybe 2-drop with skull mob and troggherd but still no spellcasters. I think only way to get several spellcasters in a very low drop list is the gobbapalooza or spider fang.

I’ve searched a bunch of options on websites, eBay (search “movement trays”) and Amazon. 5 model trays tend to be $3 to $5 each, but a new option recently popped up for $2 to $3, and add few bucks for shipping on the lot. Consistently cheapest are the Warpath Team bases at $16 for 10 so $1.60 each delivered, which are about 1/4” apart in two ranks, so not optimal for long skirmish lines or ranking but they pile in easily and basically an in between close rank and skirmished. I couldn’t bring myself to spend the $5 per tray that was the going rate for the other options until recently. With current options, I’d probably go with the chain shaped bases spaced 1” apart, as there’s options for $2.50 now and they can be used for optimal skirmish lines and can be easily ranked up in honey comb style.