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scrubyandwells

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Everything posted by scrubyandwells

  1. Yeah personally love the models but still finding it tough to figure out a tournament-viable build with a bunch of them...
  2. Here's some thoughts after chewing on GH17 a bit more: On Warhammer Weekly last Saturday, we had a long chat about GH17 Matched Play. One of the points discussed was what @StoneMonk called "alpha-blocking," and what I'll call it's twin, "alpha-bunkering." An example of alpha-blocking is @Thomas Lyons' Nurgle list, which in round 1 usually saw Sayl sling forward 28 Chaos Warriors, strung-out in a horizontal line. They have excellent durability and damage/mortal-wound output due to the buffs on them, so they're difficult for most armies to shift, which is a problem, since Sayl throws them in your face, strung out across your army's front. An example of alpha-bunkering is a Runesmiter tunneling 30 Vulkite Berzerkers onto an objective in round 1, and zoning out the objective. It's hell for most armies to chew through that unit and claim the objective, given their level of durability (and they also have more punch now, thanks to the Fyreslayers' allegiance abilities). In sum, we may see both tactics – which often go together – become a lot more common in GH17. I suspect they'll work particularly well in four of the six new Pitched Battles: Duality of Death, Total Conquest, Battle for the Pass, and Scorched Earth. Alpha-blocking, though, especially Tom's variety (stringing a durable unit out across the board), could work well in all six scenarios, depending on the quality of that blocking unit. Let's say you're playing Sylvaneth in Duality of Death, and you go up against Fyreslayers, Seraphon, Khorne, or a number of other factions that can deploy the above tactics effectively. Let's say you're running a zero-battalion list, and they have fewer drops. That means at the top of round 1, they could proceed to alpha-block both objectives with x30+ sized units, zoning you out from getting any of your heroes or behemoths within 3", while getting their own heroes or behemoths set up to start scoring. At that point, you could be in for a long day. If you have a good amount of shooting, you could potentially shoot off their heroes before they score too many points. Sooner than later, though, you'll to have to deplete the blocking units to start scoring; and if it takes too long, you may not be able to catch up. One of my tentative views is we may struggle vs armies/players that deploy the above tactics well. In particular, if we're getting out-dropped, it'll likely mean we'll have fewer Wyldwoods down on objectives (and none of our units in those woods), and in turn we'll likely have to chew through our opponent's blocking/bunkering units, which could put us way behind the eight ball. So, what can we do? Thanks to Dryads, we can deploy these tactics reasonably well, although maybe (emphasis on maybe) a little less effectively than others (...TBD). While the way GH17 has pointed battalions makes a lot of sense, it may force our faction into an even tougher choice than most. In order to compete similarly to how we were in GH16, we may still have to rely on optimizing the value of Wyldwoods relative to playing/winning the scenarios. If we're getting out-dropped and alpha-blocked/bunkered, though, we may not be able to optimize their value, and in turn we may not compete as well (...again, this is speculation...keep the salt handy). With all that in mind, a 1-drop sylvaneth list may remain the way to go, despite the considerable price. Winterleaf with Forest Folk looks especially intriguing, since it: raises the value of Dryads (already one of the most efficient options we have), allows us to take 1 Order unit while remaining a 1-drop, and most importantly, allows us to use the Forest Folk battalion's Fade from View to redeploy four units of Dryads anywhere in our territory or within 3" of a Wyldwood + 9" from enemy units. The last one is what allows us to do alpha-blocking/bunkering. Here's one example of a Winterleaf list with that in mind. It's almost certainly not the best, but hopefully it'll spark some ideas. Ancient 300 Branchwych 80 Branchwraith 80 30 Dryads 270 20 Dryads 200 20 Dryads 200 10 Dryads 100 3 Scythes 220 Frostheart Phoenix 240 Winterleaf 200 Forest Folk 110 I'll try to write up notes soon re: details behind that list. One is the three wizards should be able to increase the Frostheart Phoenix's save, which when combined with it's 4+ feel no pain + respectable damage output + great speed, gives us a resilient threat to throw at our opponent early, or a great support piece via it's Blizzard Aura. With all that said, I'd be worried about running into armies that can melt a lot of Dryads quickly (e.g., Tzeentch, Skryre, mortal-wound-oriented Stormcast, maybe Pestilens, et al.). And 310 points, in the end, is a lot to pay for Winterleaf + Forest Folk. It's hard to say at the moment whether it'd be worth it.
  3. Seems like the issue will be the default one w/ that battalion: lack of damage output. And it may be a little worse now, since the battalion went up in price, although not dramatically as you said.
  4. Yeah that's an intriguing list for the most part. A lot to like about it. Agree, I like how it maintains Verdurous for replenishing KH and Dryads/TRevs, + 5 spells + lowers our # of drops significantly relative to Household-only lists. Just not sure if one big block of 30 Dryads is going to be sufficient for competing well in all the 6 Pitched Battles, but that list would be a perfect one for playtesting to see how things fare. I ended up going away from the big block of Dryads in recent lists and toward 20 Eternal Guard + 2x10 Dryads + 1x5 Tree-Revenants to have the 20 EG function as the block for defending a home objective and then have the other units for utility + bodies to help score on other objectives. The 20 EG could also go to 30 with some changes and 30 could still likely fit in a Wyldwood due to 25mm base. And personally I'd go combat-build for the 2x3 KH -- maybe 1 with swords and 1 with scythes. Great work, would love to hear how things go with that list.
  5. 20 Eternal Guard would usually be sitting on an objective in your own territory, ideally fully in cover within a Wyldwood, zoning out the objective to prevent any enemy models getting within the required range for scoring/contesting. I'm hopeful that # would be sufficient for defending an objective in your own territory, especially in Total Conquest and Battle for Skull Pass with their 20-or-more-model rule. And as needed, the 20 EG could be supported by other pieces in the list.
  6. Given the news on Drycha + KH bows, I'm back on the Drycha train for priority-playtesting. Here's a few personal checkboxes FWIW for shaping a list. Would love to hear how others shape theirs...what boxes do you have to check off? Gotta love all the models in the list, first and foremost. Has to be elite/low-model count (40-60 models), which could be a challenge for #6 in GH17...remains TBD. Good model variety. Playstyle variety -- has to do a lot of different things, e.g., some magic, shooting, mobility/reach, damage output, etc. (this can be a disadvantage, though,...stretching too thin) Challenging to play -- should have multiple moving parts that need to be used well together. Tournament-viable -- has to be able to scratch top tables, if played well + maybe benefiting from good fortune on matchups (etc.). In that regard, I'm stuck on the following iteration ATM. I can see a # of shortcomings with it, e.g., it's potentially too dependent on Wyldwoods, which was sometimes an issue in GH16 and could be even more so in GH17, especially vs top players, so I'm wondering if it might be better sacrificing shooting for, say, 2 Fulminators. Oh, and the 30 pts left over might give decent odds of getting a Triumph. Ancient Drycha Branchwych Knight-Venator 10 Dryads 10 Dryads 5 Tree-Revenants 3 KH Scythes 3 KH Greatbows 20 Eternal Guard Treelord Household 1970/2000
  7. Yeah, love the model, the concept, and the rules are pretty cool...just don't think she'll work for us, unless we're running another SCE unit w/ the Ride the Winds Aetheric ability (e.g. Palladors), so that she can hitch a ride on the winds. Otherwise, as you said, she's a foot slogger. All else equal, the only foot sloggers for us that look especially interesting as potential Allies are the Waywatcher + the Errant-Questor, the latter for reasons discussed earlier + covered on the potential-tree-allies episode on S&W. And then we've got the two 5-wound flyers, Venator and Azyros.
  8. Cool, look forward to checking this out!
  9. Today was fab for us overall. Feels good to get some unexpected, big wins.
  10. Interesting...something like this? Alarielle Drycha Waywatcher Venator 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 10 Dryads 20 Glade Guard Dreadwood Outcasts 1970/2000 That looks pretty rough on paper...
  11. Yeah, here's some other "Maybe's" as well: Celestant-Prime Judicators Protectors
  12. Hard to judge at the moment but they definitely look fun to play. On Drycha, I haven't playtested her much, but a good use might be to keep her out of harm's way until you're ready to strike with Swarm of Squirmlings. Ideally you'd strike at the bottom of a round to give you a chance at double turning and getting 2 rounds of Squirmlings + 1 or 2 rounds of her magic before any return fire. I suspect a common tactic will be players teleporting in (or moving quickly in general) a big block for taking an objective in your zone. So you'd position her as a counter-threat, ensuring she can get within 10" of most or all of the models in that big block and light them up with Squirmlings.
  13. Narrowed list of Ally standouts (excluding compendium warscrolls): Errant-Questor Knight-Azyros Knight-Venator Vanguard-Hunters Fulminators Waywatcher Eternal Guard Sisters of the Thorn Maybe: Vanguard Longstrikes Vanguard Hurricanes Prosecutor Javelins
  14. 140. He has a lot going for him. I suspect we may see him as a common Ally w/ other factions as well, as a bodyguard for a key Hero piece + a durable 5-wound Hero in his own right that can kick out a little bit of damage.
  15. ...and as others have mentioned: If model count is going up in GH17, especially low-save models, then KH w/ greatswords will see a lot more play. Personally, I'll probably end up running at least 1x3.
  16. You're a scholar and a gentleman, sir, thanks very much. I'll take a little time to digest all this great info.
  17. Not sure if anyone ever followed up on this. That's the (common) list I've been running and doing well w/ at tournies over the summer, but with one more unit of KH greatbows + the Free Spirits battalion, which of course there's now not room for in GH17. My list would be 2,280pts in GH17, but you've taken out the right things in your above slimmed-down version. In general, I suspect the above is still viable at tournies, just with less margin for error, and maybe a little more dependency on fortunate variables/matchups (i.e., scenario, your opponent's list, their skill level, how drunk you got the night before, etc.). In particular, I think the list might also struggle in the scenarios Total Conquest and Battle for the Pass, which give scoring precedent to any units with 20 or more models within 6" of an objective. The above list was a premier example of an elite, low-model-count army that was reasonably competitive at tournies, but we'll have to see if those kinds of armies are sufficiently viable given the various incentives/rewards now in place for high-model-count forces. It may turn out, if you play really well and have some fortune on your side, you can still compete on top tables with the above type of list. It's just impossible to say at the moment. BTW on the scythe build out, I'm a big proponent of 2x3 over 1x6. Here's a few of the reasons (from the WH Community article by @Mirage8112 and myself, although the below represents my personal opinion -- I'm not sure whether Frank holds the same views on this particular subject): Sometimes it’s tough to get all six scythes into combat, even with their 2” reach, especially if you’re also trying to screen them. It’s easier to keep both Dryads and Kurnoth Hunters fully in cover for a +1 save while still screening the latter with the former. Two units of three scythes provide greater board flexibility. Having strong units in two different places is often more useful than one extremely powerful unit. Two units of Kurnoth Hunters also makes it easier to position one unit in a Wyldwood in a way that makes it almost impossible for a large based model to reach them (e.g., a Frostlord on Stonehorn). And three other reasons not listed: The potential for pincing a big block with both from the sides, minimizing that block's pile in and attacks back; Sometimes it's too easy for your opponent to chaff/roadblock 1x6 scythes, which is a huge problem given how much is invested in that unit; and Using Navigate Realmroots for both gives you two chances to roll a 6 for the extra 5" move, turning a charge roll into a 4+ rather than a 9+. With that said, the main argument for 1x6 is that it's one powerful activation, so that could be especially important if, e.g., fighting a Frostlord on Stonehorn. If you're only activating with 1x3 scythes but you've got two scythe units within 3", you won't kill a (near-)full health stoned frostlord with the one unit, but it may kill your other unit in return before it can activate. I think it's on you and your generalship, though, to really mitigate situations like that from happening.
  18. Sonuva...those changes would put the list over 400pt Allies.
  19. Not much. Just shhh over there. Keep it secret. Keep it safe. ?
  20. Hmm interesting point. I'd worry about losing the RR 1's to save command ability, but, as one example, you could swap out the TLA for a Bwych, Errant-Questor, and another unit of 5 TRevs, giving Alarielle Regrowth and Bwych Acorn + Verdant. Errant-Questor turns her into a 21-wound model when he's within 3" of her, and he's pretty tanky since he ignores rend. You'd have a fair # oh heroes for Duality of Death and higher odds on average of Alarielle surviving a barrage coming her way.
  21. Maybe even heavy MSU with them for board denial, roadblocking/delaying, pinning on a corner, etc. They wouldn't be the best at it, and many things could tear through them easily. At 80pts for 10, though, that's a lot of MSU if one were so inclined.
  22. Put this together last night, still trying to find an Alarielle list for competing (at least decently) in all 6 of the new scenarios, again just from a desire to take her to events with a reasonably-viable list. Also have 2x10 Dryads, 1x5 TRevs, and 2x3 Scythes already in the collection, so that's the deep tactical rationale for that... Alarielle Ancient Waywatcher Venator 10 Dryads 10 Dryads 5 TRevs 3 KH Scythes 3 KH Scythes 20 Eternal Guard 1. Alarielle + Venator provide some legitimate long-range threat, backed up by Ancient + Waywatcher w/ respectable threat range. 2. 20 Eternal Guard for sitting on an objective in our territory and zoning it out 6" when needed. 3. 2x10 Dryads for a range of utility -- screens, pairing w/ 3 Scythes in a wood, keeping them in enclaves for late-game scoring, forcing opponent to keep units on objectives, and all kinds of other things. Also think 2x10 Dryads could be significant for getting more models on objectives because that's 20 bodies vs TRev/SpiteRev's 10 bodies.
  23. Yeah those are pretty interesting lists. You've got a little bit of everything, which is certainly my own bias from a playstyle view... A bit of everything worked well for us in GH16, although things may be different in GH17. Both of those lists could struggle in Duality of Death, depending on the matchup, although that might be a scenario where you could scale back, since there's only one scenario of its kind, whereas there's multiple scenarios oriented around model count. I do wish they would've lowered Big D, even a little, since he's such a high-variance / low-reliability model, and 400pts is a big price to pay when he goes in at a crucial period in the game and...whiffs. I like the look of #1 quite a bit more, since you've got the TLA as general for the still-quite-important RR 1's to save + 2 wizards probably for loading out Regrowth and Verdant Blessing. Similar to Nico's view, I'm skeptical KH Greatbows are worth 220 (...which isn't a new skepticism, this was expressed during feedback), especially if running them outside Gnarlroot with no change to bring KH back via Verdurous Harmony. So I'd probably drop one of the bows and maybe go with 1 more Waywatcher and maybe a Venator for legitimate long-range threat, high mobility + solid save, and of course the chance at sniping a key support Hero or what not via Star-Fated Arrow. Alternatively, Azyros is an interesting option for moving him within 10" of an enemy unit you want to focus-fire, allowing all your shooting to RR 1's to hit. Having a hard time getting away from Eternal Guard. Along with Dryads, they're our best bet for getting enough bodies on the table. They're 40pts cheaper, though, than Dryads @ 20, and 60pts cheaper @ 30. Would love to hear from @swarmofseals and/or @Mirage8112 on the math, but at a glance, Eternal Guard look reasonably comparable to Dryads, specifically for the purposes of defending objectives in your territory, so if they're a little cheaper, that's extra points we have to put elsewhere.
  24. Hi, looks great for casual, narrative, and casual matched play. For tournament/competitive play, I suspect you'll struggle with it's lack of bodies, since GH17 seems to be placing an even higher premium on the significance of more bodies on the table.
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