scrubyandwells

Still haven't played Dreadwood but here's some theoryhammer thoughts. It seems like a build that needs a lot of actual practice to inform list choices. At the top, I think three common builds will have either 1) Alarielle and Durthu, 2) Alarielle and Drycha, or 3) Durthu and Drycha. In #2 and #3, you can also add Celestant Prime as a potential high-value betastrike/counterstrike. He seems less interesting as a round 1 alpha, though, since he'll only have 3 attacks. More on him later. It's tough to know which of those three starting points to choose. They have pluses and minuses. For Alarielle and Durthu: Two anti-horde pieces (on paper). Alarielle's three spells, which adds utility when Realm Spells are in effect. Alarielle's summoning, which adds utility ("Do I most need 20 Dryads, 3 Kurnoth X, or a Treelord in this matchup?"). Durthu with an artefact, raising his value (Ethereal Amulet, Ignax's Scales, Doppelganger Cloak, or Ghyrstrike are my top 4 for him). If Ghyrstrike, it would benefit from 1) having Cogs and a reliable way to cast it (i.e. not "relying" on a 7+), and 2) a reliable way to generate x2 Wyldwoods on round 1 in addition to the pre-deploy Wyldwood, so that you establish excellent coverage early for Durthu, Kurnoth, and other combat threats to Navigate Realmroot teleport + then have favorable odds for your teleport charges with Cogs + maybe Warsinger + CP RR. The ability to pull-off teleport charges reliably is part of what makes, e.g., certain Stormcast, Idoneth, and Nighthaunt builds strong right now. Sylvaneth have the same capacity. As mentioned in a prior post, at Siegeworld I was trying out Ethereal Amulet + Mystic Shield + Solemn Guardian on Durthu with Drycha within 6" to benefit from Solemn Guardian. It could've made a difference in a couple games at Siegeworld but I kept forgetting about the rule, having ran a Gnarlroot list for 2 years where it almost never came up. The set up, however, could have merit in Dreadwood with Alarielle and Durthu within 6" of each other for Solemn Guardian, where on a 4+ wounds on her would be re-allocated to Durthu with a 3+ ignore rend save + potentially RR 1's from Mystic Shield, especially since Alarielle has 6 more wounds than Drycha and 2D3 healing + 1D3 for other Sylvaneth units. At the same time, the combo could suffer from a common challenge with Alarielle and Durthu: ~50% of your army will be in one small area on the board. Ignax's Scales (4+ ignore vs mortal wounds) is also tempting on Durthu since he's often the target of enemy mortal wounds. Unfortunately, Solemn Guardian doesn't appear to work with mortal wounds (the rule only says "wounds," not "wounds or mortal wounds"). When thinking about the set of armies you may face at a tournament, Ethereal Amulet vs Ignax's Scales looks like six of one, half a dozen of the other, although the command trait Gnarled Warrior (ignore -1 rend) could be taken on Durthu as your general, which may swing the case in favor of Ignax's Scales, or toward another artefact like Ghyrstrike. Doppelganger Cloak is reasonably compelling, especially as part of a reliable teleport-strike with Cogs (+ potentially Warsinger) and another heavy hitter like Alarielle, Celestant Prime, or 6 Scythes, ensuring (in most instances) two hammer-unit activations before your opponent can strike either of them. At the same time, you're not only relying on Durthu to not whiff his 3+/3+ (assuming he isn't debuffed, which he may be since debuffs are somewhat common now), you're also relying on his base 3+ save + maybe you've skipped Warsinger to give him Gnarled Warrior, along with healing him via Alarielle and Regrowth. On paper, I like the potential of Doppelganger, since it puts more pressure on your opponent to kill Durthu, given the significance of always being able to ensure he can attack in combat before anyone attacks him, which gives you (in principle) an ongoing advantage in the activation game, which may increase your advantage in damage-delivered vs damage-received. Alarielle's command ability can help him as well (once per game, of course), along with Damned scenery or a Knight-Azyros (if you can find 100 points for him), to increase Durthu's to-hit and to-wound reliability. Big topic. More soon.

Sorry for missing this originally. For a more well-rounded Dreadwood list that doesn't rely on hyper-aggressive play, the main element is to incorporate Dryads for screening and objective play, and to have enough for summoning throughout the game. You can also look at Eternal Guard, which are a cheaper screening option at x10 for 70pts or x20 for 140pts, although you lose the one-drop if you take any Eternal Guard. Here's one example: Alarielle Spirit of Durthu Branchwraith 30 Dryads 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 3 Kurnoth Hunters Dreadwood/Outcast 1990 Alternatively, you could swap Durthu for Drycha, another Branchwraith, and a 20-30pt endless spell. Here's one with Eternal Guard: Alarielle Spirit of Durthu Branchwraith Branchwraith 20 Eternal Guard 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 3 Kurnoth Hunters Dreadwood/Outcast Chronomantic Cogs

Welcome! If you google "Sylvaneth Spotlight" and "Sylvaneth Faction Focus," you'll find a series of articles on Warhammer Community that should provide a good introduction to the faction: the lore, heroes, units, Wyldwoods, strategy and tactics, and so on.

Looks like a solid list to experiment with. I think Ishlaen Guard are promising in a Sylvaneth list, particularly as a bunker screen in a Wyldwood, giving them a 3+ ignoring rend save. I'd be tempted to do Kurnoth Scythes rather than Swords so that they can be screened in or out of a Wyldwood by Ishlaen Guard or another unit and still swing over the top with their 2" reach. A mainstay of Sylvaneth play is Dryads in a Wyldwood screening Kurnoth Scythes, who then swing over the top. Ishlaen Guard could perform a similar role, although just be careful about Roused by Magic, since Ishlaen would be affected.

Yeah that was another item for the list: our one-drop battalions put more options on the table for us that are missing otherwise, especially the option to take first and alpha-bunker onto objectives within a Wyldwood. I won a lot of games with that basic approach in AoS1. Sylvaneth want to be fighting in and around Wyldwoods most of the time for cover, minimizing enemy footprint, optimizing Roused by Magic and related spells, getting debuffs to hit, and so on.

Re: above, here's some notes on what was learned at Siegeworld last weekend, my first AoS2 event. First, it was an enormous amount of fun! Jeff Naumann puts on a wonderful tournament. All my games and opponents were outstanding. It was two events in one: three 2K games Saturday, three 1K games Sunday. I loved the format, although 90 minutes wasn't quite enough for 1K. For context, I went this year with an experimental-rather-than-competitive mindset. When you're supposed to be an "expert," it's easy to start thinking you need to "do well" consistently. I'm not a fan of that story (it's rather silly and unhealthy), so forced myself to just throw it out. Some experiments included: Taking a toned-down build without much room for summoning additional Dryads (only have 30, which were in the list). Always giving up first turn, if I had fewer drops, and sometimes saying in advance they'll be getting first turn. Not always trying to make optimal choices, e.g., not always going for objectives to force being more on the back foot. Trying out 1x10 Tree-Revenants, skipping one-drop battalions, relying on 6+ Verdant Blessing, etc. Some of what was learned: Time for an updated cheatsheet for AoS2, starting with "Hey dummy, remember you usually don't have to stay on an objective to keep scoring it." My brain kept reverting back to AoS1. As half-expected, 1x10 Tree-Revenants felt like a poor use of 160 points. They were there as a backfield-threat experiment, but they needed to be in combat when no other combats were happening (other combats with higher-priority activations were always happening), since, as always, if you can't activate them first, they'll die to just about anything. At the same time, 1x5 or 2x5 is still a solid bet for Johnny-on-the-spot screening and objective play. In one game, Kurnoth Swords were fighting a combat-build Great Unclean One (GUO), who was on the edge of a Wyldwood. Usually, you want Kurnoth fighting from the comfort of a Wyldwood, giving them a 3+ save + their Tanglethorn Thicket RR. It was proving difficult, though, to keep all 3 in cover and within 1" range to attack the GUO. Kurnoth Scythes, on the other hand, would've managed it with 2" reach. Blight Kings are legitimately terrifying. It was my first time facing a bunch. They were RR'ing hits and wounds and often doing mortal wounds on 6's to hit with Blades of Putrefaction. I knew it was a thing, but experiencing it first hand was horrifying. Drycha with Flitterfuries was the all-star all weekend. I was also trying her out as a combat piece. Not the best idea, it turned out. Her 4+ to hit and 3+ to wound made her too swingy, especially when combined with the randomness of whether she's mad (Enraged) or sad (Embittered). She won't do much of anything in combat when she's sad, and even when mad, the math isn't favorable, unless she has RRs from somewhere. On the other hand, she was hitting 4-5 units a turn with Flitterfuries. If you can keep her alive for 3 rounds, much less 4 or 5, good lord...her mortal wound output can get crazy (Flitterfuries is especially helpful when facing armies with 5-7-wound heroes, like Nighthaunt). Ethereal Amulet + Mystic Shield on Spirit of Durthu was a solid combo, as it is with a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon et al. I kept forgetting about Solemn Guardian, though, which could've helped Drycha survive longer, since she was often in combat within 6" of Durthu. With that said, as usual, Durthu was a primary focus for my opponent's mortal wounds, and he largely decided to take the weekend off, as he's wont to do. I'll have to experiment with Ghyrstrike, as well as Ignax's Scales. The shorter deployment pitch – 9" instead of 12" – on multiple GHB18 scenarios means the pre-deployment Wyldwood can often be placed as a 2-Citadel-Wood-base runway that extends into both deployment zones. So regardless of who chooses deployment sides, you can set up some of your units within 3" of the pre-deployment Wyldwood, such as Dryads or Branchwraiths, in order to trigger their -1 to hit from the start. This also gives you the option to use Acorn of the Ages more aggressively (i.e., up-field), instead of using it as the standard "launchpad" deeper in your deployment zone, since units already deployed within 3" of the pre-deployment Wyldwood can use it as the launchpad. Of course, all of this is situation-dependent. Fighting Alarielle with only 3 Kurnoth Scythes is a terrible idea. Who knew! Talon of the Dwindling removed a Kurnoth model every turn. Acorn of the Ages was as valuable as ever, but not having its tag-team partner (Ranu's Lamentiri for a reliable Verdant Blessing) definitely sucked. I kept failing the 6+ cast for Verdant. Having only the pre-deployment Wyldwood + Acorn, especially when you let your opponent go first and they start zoning out the board, certainly can affect Sylvaneth's mobility and resiliency. Running out of time...more blathering soon!

When the opportunity exists, also interested in trying Spirit of Durthu + Drycha as a combat-threat duo, to try and take advantage of Durthu's Solemn Guardian + Ethereal Amulet + ideally Mystic Shield. On a 4+, wounds to Drycha could be allocated to him, and taken on 3+ ignore rend (+ potentially RR 1's). Since the ability says "...causes a wound...," I'm guessing mortal wounds would not trigger Solemn Guardian? Normally the warscroll would say "wound(s) or mortal wound(s)," but this could be an instance of warscroll writing that's incongruent with their more refined, consistent writing in recent battletomes.

After hundreds of games, I've rolled snake eyes or 3 on Ranu's + Verdant enough that I'm leery to gamble again. It shouldn't fail, but it can. Definitely appreciate why folks prefer it, though. Also like the potential to get two woods out round 1 re: Acorn + Verdant and keeping caster out of unbind range. First version of the list had Acorn on one BW and Ranu's + Verdant on the other, but wanting to try out Ethereal Amulet on Durthu. Unfortunately don't have Alarielle quite yet -- should have her ready to go by October.

One variation considered: Put Verdant Blessing on Branchwraith with Acorn of the Ages, and Throne of Vines on the other Branchwraith; Deploy Throne of Vines Branchwraith in a spot where she can stay put, ideally out of unbind range; Cast Throne of Vines, with intention to summon Dryads in succeeding turns with the +D3 to cast (and potentially +D3 to unbind if any enemy Wizards have moved within unbind range).

Headed to Siegeworld tomorrow (my first AoS2 event!) for three 2K games on Sat and three at 1K on Sun. Here's the list. Not the best, but wanted to try out some things, especially no one-drop, no Bows, 1x10 TRevs, and Flitterfuries. So if I go 0-3, it's all the list's damn fault...of course. ? Spirit of Durthu General Warsinger Ethereal Amulet Drycha Hamadreth Regrowth Colony of Flitterfuries Branchwraith Acorn of the Ages Regrowth Branchwraith Verdant Blessing 20 Dryads 10 Dryads 10 Tree-Revenants 3 Kurnoth Scythes 3 Kurnoth Scythes 3 Kurnoth Swords Free Spirits Battalion

Yeah that's one of the top "template lists" for Gnarlroot in GHB18, at least if you want to maintain the one drop. I think the above version, though, has room for improvement, or at least here's some things to consider: 1. Since the above doesn't have Cogs, Warsinger is valuable on Ancient to give you the potential for 8+ charges (w/ command point RR) on your teleports. The +1 charge combined w/ a RR is significant for greater charge-reliability. At the same time, Gift of Ghyran isn't a poor choice. 2. Personally I'd skip The Reaping and Dwellers Below, take Regrowth for both Ancient and Drycha (giving you greater board flexibility, i.e. you don't have to keep them <> 18" of each other, and if one dies, you'll still have Regrowth), and go with one of the following for the Branchwraith and Branchwych: A: Branchwraith - Ranu's Lamentiri + Verdant Blessing Branchwych - Acorn of the Ages + Throne of Vines B: Branchwraith - Ranu's Lamentiri + Throne of Vines Branchwych - Acorn of the Ages + Verdant Blessing Option A makes Verdant Blessing a lot more reliable, while still giving +1 to cast other spells, especially Roused to Wrath for summoning Dryads, turning it into 6+ (or 5+ with Arcane). And by giving Throne of Vines to the Branchwych, she can focus on replenishing Kurnoth Hunters et al. w/ +D3 to cast on Verdurous Harmony, as well as potentially helping w/ unbinds, since the +D3 applies to unbinding as well. Of course, the +D3 goes away if she moves. Option B provides a less-reliable Verdant Blessing and puts more focus on the Branchwraith, but if you want to optimize casting Roused to Wrath or Verdurous Harmony, go this route. You'll be casting Throne of Vines on 3+ (or 2+ w/ Arcane), and then have +1 and +D3 for casting Roused to Wrath or Verdurous Harmony. If the list had Cogs, I'd be more tempted by option B, since the Branchwraith could cast three spells. In general, though, option A is the better route IMO. 3. You may want to test the 1x6 Scythes in scenarios w/ a lot of objectives, like A Better Part of Valour, Scorched Earth, and Focal Points. While the single activation can be invaluable, the greater board presence/flexibility of 2x3 Scythes has been more consistently relevant in my experience. 4. I think there's a strong argument for running 1x3 Swords over 1x3 Bows. Good luck!

Thanks for listening! Just for reference, it wasn't Ben (GW staff can't talk about future releases), it was those up-to-no-good rumormongers here on TGA.

I'll follow up with some thoughts soon. To be honest, I still have a hard time seeing Dreadwood as one of our strongest tournament choices, at least in a competitive field; but that may reflect my lack of experience with it vs its actual potential. Usually when writing Dreadwood lists, I see clear flaws, and lists that will have a difficult time vs a lot of the top-end.

Thanks for the summary, @IndigoGirls. Outside of Gnarlroot, what I'd consider the most competitive builds usually don't include the Ancient. Given that Silent Communion seems like it has failed 80% of the time over my hundreds of games in the last few years, I'm reluctant to view that ability as an argument in favor of the Ancient, but others mileage may vary. All else equal, I think one drops are still the most competitive for us, although as discussed w/ Vince and Tom, I think a lot of folks will build Dreadwood lists the wrong way, relying too much on alphastrike hammering -- a surefire way to drop one or two games in a 5-game tournament. As more folks play Dreadwood (and other alphastrike builds), more players will understand how to defend against it. Personally, after playing Gnarlroot since 2016, I'd like to get more experience with 5-7 drops (e.g. with Free Spirits battalion), as well as 10+ drops (with no battalion), and see how well Sylvaneth can do at tournaments without relying on one drops. Of course, non-one-drop builds need enough screens to defend vs the plethora of alphastrike-capable armies, or in general vs all the builds that hit hard when they come in (e.g., Stormcast, Idoneth Daughters of Khaine, et al.). In that regard, Dryads remain a mainstay, along with Eternal Guard, which at 70 points for x10 are the closest-equivalent option we have to Skinks, and we saw the value in GHB17 (and now in GHB18) of a couple units of 10 Skinks. In terms of Sylvaneth units: Buying: Alarielle Drycha Spirit of Durthu Branchwraith Kurnoth Swords Spite-Revenants (saving extra points in a battleline slot can make a difference in list building + Whispers in the Dark is excellent) Selling: Treelord Ancient (outside of Gnarlroot) Treelord Branchwych (outside of Gnarlroot and Ironbark) Kurnoth Bows (can see a case for x3, especially in an Alarielle list where you can summon another x3) Holding: Dryads Tree-Revenants Kurnoth Scythes (still prefer 2x3 over 1x6 for greater board presence / optionality)

Had an in-depth look at Sylvaneth in AoS2 on Warhammer Weekly this week. We discuss: What units went up or down in value Battalions (w/ a breakdown of Dreadwood) Stand-out allies Counters Check it out:

Yeah I'd highly recommend at least x3 Swords. Just fair warning: Once you play with x3, you're going to want at least x3 more.

Don't have numbers. Personal sense is 6 combat Kurnoth were a better buy than Durthu in GHB17, and are an even better buy now. Taking Ghyrstrike would help, although that's an item slot, a precious resource, and a -1 to hit debuff (or worse) is relatively easy to come by in the game now. Six Kurnoth Swords (2x3, or maybe 1x6 in Dreadwood for Ambush), in particular, will be amazing vs the majority of units I expect we'll see on the table. Part of the consideration, as with anything, is list-dependent. E.g., with Alarielle, 2x3 Kurnoth give you two targets for Soul Amphorae, but Durthu gives you a bodyguard for Alarielle to help keep her alive e.g. vs alphastrikes or ranged mortal wounds. Overall, though, as long as ranged mortal wound output isn't way over the top in the AoS2 meta, I think Durthu will be quite playable, and man would it be fun to give him Ghyrstrike and put him in situations where he has a real chance to shine.

Yeah, a # of the elements you laid out will be part of the baseline for Dreadwood, when the opportunity exists to do an effective alphastrike. I think one of the challenges with your particular list is it needs more punch. A common pre-GHB18 choice for Dreadwood had been Ambushing 6 Scythes. That's still a pretty good option, although you'll also see lists bumping that # to 9 now. A Spirit of Durthu with Ghyrstrike will likely be another common route. In terms of a command trait, I've been using Warsinger for a long while instead of Gnarled Warrior because of the significance of +1 to charge, turning our 9+ charges via teleporting into 8+ charges, and of course with Cogs on, that'll be 6+ charges with a command point to RR the charge if needed. The Celestant Prime is another interesting prospect, because of the unique options he provides, e.g.: As another source of long-range D3 mortal wounds with an area of effect up to 6". As a reliable piece in an alphastrike. He'll have 3 attacks base in the new Stormcast Battletome (2" reach, 3's and 2's, -3 rend, 3 damage). Also, you'll now be able to use his Orrery ability to change both dice in a charge roll (I think that's right, based on my memory of WH Live over the weekend), so he can auto-charge at 12". As a reliable piece in a betastrike, i.e., you keep him in the Celestial Realm round 1, and then you crash him into something important in round 2 (e.g., as a second-wave attack or a counter-strike), giving him 5 attacks + his Sceptre's mortal wound output. Taking the Prime turns Dreadwood into a 2 drop, but I suspect 2-drop will still out-deploy maybe 8-9 out of 10 opponents in GHB18. Re: Emerald Lifeswarm...that's a tough one. It definitely has potential. Other choices, though, may give better mileage in more settings. Highly recommend experimenting with a range of endless spells, especially the Pendulum, Geminids, Palisade, Shackles, and Swords. And Cogs + Warsinger is probably going to be standard in a lot of tree lists.

This is phenomenal. Kudos my friend. Especially love the endrin-powered Luminark.

I think Sam took Les's SCE (Stardrake, 4 Fulminators, etc.), but could be wrong...

Another tourney where it seems soft scores were a large net positive, especially that brilliant placing with The Black Sunz. It seems exactly what we'd want to hope for with the inclusion of soft scores.

Greatly enjoying the thread guys! Congrats to @Chris Tomlin and @Sangfroid on Facehammer too. Played against Ironjawz a couple times over the weekend with the trees. Definitely seemed like they need ally shooting. Played around with a few lists afterward and thought this one was interesting, attached. 1. 4 Rock Lobbers for quite a bit of no-LOS 44" threat w/ potential for extra attacks on 6+ (or 5+ vs 10+ models). 2. Couple solid heroes for Duality of Death. Maybe Skewer instead on Megaboss on foot but love the damage potential w/ the extra rend. 3. Decent # of units/bodies with some diversity/adaptability. 4 Rock Lobbers (or e.g. 3 Spear-Chukkas) seems like it could change the equation in certain matchups (lists/scenarios), where you could now hang back and potentially do some real ranged damage before exposing many of your units. In that regard, certain lists might decide to alpha-strike in response, but 10 Ardboys + 2x3 Gore-Gruntas should help with screening and keeping folks off the Rock Lobbers and Brutes. This is all theory, though...just wanted to share some initial ideas. Hoping to get in more games vs the 'jawz this coming weekend, this time w/ more shooting in their list! PS Allegiance is supposed to be Ironjawz...forgot to change it in Scrollbuilder.

Really fun following this event on Twitter. A shout out from across the pond to everyone involved in making it happen. Anyone know Andy Hughes' sylvaneth build? A third place finish looks outstanding given the strength of the field. Would love to have Andy on the podcast to chat about his experience with the trees at BOBO.

Q: Are Mortal Wounds considered to be "damage" e.g. for the purposes of substituting a Destiny Dice for a "Damage roll" or for adding up the damage inflicted by a unit of Bloodletters attacking a Stonehorn in melee before halving? A: Yes. Hi @Ben Johnson, sorry to pull you in, but the above question ("Can you use Destiny Dice for mortal wounds?") is coming up all the time, and really needs an official answer, especially before AdeptiCon.

Personally, I tend to view AoS as really kicking off ~6 months ago with the release of GHB and the Sylvaneth BT. In that regard, the game is ~6 months old. In that time, it hasn't released anything (except the Lord Veritant) for its main faction. The main faction has lacked a BT reflective of the (new) game for a half-year. So on that level, I can appreciate this up-to-date SCE BT release. And if they're going to do it, I can see the interest in releasing it with a new chamber / new models.