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Everything posted by scrubyandwells

  1. Just going for low-model Sacrosanct 2K + allies w/ fave models that could at least pull 3-2 at events. Presently stuck on Prime (seems inefficient but fave SCE model), Arcanum (on foot or Gryph), Castellant, Azyros, 1x10 Seq, 2x5 Seq, 1x6 or 2x3 Kittycators, and 2x10 Eternal Guard. Missing: Non-Scions teleport e.g. Vexillor or Relictor, and ranged damage.
  2. Thanks for the thoughts! Appreciated your non-standard list + excellent write up on the tournament. Slowly getting SCE together as a second army. Have been thinking about 2x10 Eternal Guard as screens (not a fan of Skink models). EG seem like a reasonable buy at 70, but Aetherwings are interesting at 20 less + Scions. No Watchful Guardians synergy, though, since theming around Sacrosanct.
  3. That's the craziest damn list I've seen in a while. Shaun is a madman. How well do you think Aetherwings do as screens in general?
  4. Re: the following five... Endless spells Realm artefacts Realm spells Realm commands Realmscape features I think endless spells stand out as a net-positive for AoS. A nice balance of originality and flavor, light touch (simplicity and non-outsized impact), and $ opportunity. The other four are a net-negative on the AoS experience in my view, at least for MP tournaments, with maybe the exception of realm artefacts. A strength of AoS has been its relative simplicity and elegance. If you're a serious competitive player, you may be happy to invest the effort to become deeply familiar with the above; and you may also not mind the in-game experience of needing to be prepared and capable of both remembering and making sound choices in relation to the additional features. If you're a casual competitive player, you may find the realm elements lessen your enjoyment. They may reflect a crossing point, where the amount of intimate knowledge required to compete becomes burdensome. Personally, I'm casually competitive... The various realm rules feel burdensome, especially when they're having an outsized impact on the game and all my brain wants to do is just ignore the damn things. If going to Holy Wars (a narrative event), and playing on a Realm of Death table with Death scenery + realm spells/features/etc., then absolutely, sign me up. If going to Las Vegas Open's AoS Championship to play competitive AoS, no thanks. They seem to run counter to 'immersion' at a competitive tournament. They add undue complexity without meaningful benefit. With that said, I can live with realm artefacts, but as a solution to one commonly-perceived intent (providing more choice to armies without a battletome), they seem like a bloated approach, again for MP. Ubiquitous artefacts could be modified annually, but unless the design space is better constrained, with less variance in value, then the same issue will continue: A small number of artefacts will be used commonly, and a majority of them will be ignored. Of course, I could be wrong. It happens. A lot. cc: @Vincent Venturella, @Thomas Lyons, @Brendan_Bear, @David Griffin, @Lhw, @ianob
  5. Hi @Lemon Knuckles, thanks very much for this effort. Looking at your latest list of units, I didn't find much to disagree with. Your outputs largely matched up with my personal evaluations. The only area that seemed problematic were some of the shooting units. Your results often seemed to overvalue shooting units relative to my personal sense. The nature and overall landscape of AoS2 has lowered the aggregate value of shooting. I think we've seen this reflected in tournament results over the last six months. To look at a few examples: * Arkanauts - Gunk: 153 | GH18: 120 * Judicators - Gunk: 159 | GH18: 160 * Kurnoth Hunters - Gunk: 211 | GH18: 200 * Savage Orruk Arrowboys - Gunk: 165 | GH18: 140 In each of the above, Gunk doesn't quite match up with my personal valuation, given the collective set of variables in AoS2 that lowers the value, on average, of shooting in the game. (FWIW, personally, I prefer a weighting in AoS that favors, moderately, combat over shooting/magic.) E.g., while I agree 210pts is a reasonable reflection of the value of Kurnoth Scythes and Swords, I think 210pts, or 200pts, is an overestimation of the value of Kurnoth Bows. The same applies with Judicators: In GH17, 160pts seemed spot-on for them, but in GH18, it seems 20pts too high, whereas Gunk thought it was still spot-on. For reference, here's some of the currently-problematic units in the game that I thought your system largely nailed: * Grimghast Reapers - Gunk: 170 | GH18: 140 * Morrsarr Guard - Gunk: 189 | GH18: 160 (note: your spreadsheet had 140, the pts for Ishlaen Guard in GH18) * Witch Aelves - Gunk: 136 | GH18: 100 (I could see some argue 136 is too high; a couple of DoK rules make Witch Aelves especially terrifying currently) * Dire Wolves - Gunk: 79 | GH18: 60 * Sequitors - Gunk: 143 | GH18: 120 * Evocators - Gunk: 232 | GH18: 200 cc: @Thomas Lyons
  6. Just some friendly ribbing my friend. ;-D 74 models is on the lower end compared to quite a few armies.
  7. Some of us still have ethical standards and refuse to play Sylvaneth as a Dryad-horde army, your multiple top 5 finishes be damned. 😜
  8. Hey dendrophiles! Haven't been around in a while, but wanted to pop in and share some recent additions, thanks to the brilliant folks at Unlimited Colours. The sublime Queen herself finally arrived yesterday. Her appearance put me at ease after seeing the (seductive) abomination @Vincent Venturella created last week. That man has issues. Props to all of you doing the Goddess proud at tournaments of late, especially that scoundrel @Lhw. And apparently he won a sports award? Who rigged that vote?
  9. Still not in love with that build. It has some clear flaws, e.g.: a fair # of points in utility pieces that die easily (Dryads, Tree-Revs, Spite-Revs) a more-survivable Ancient who will still often fluff shooting and melee a strong reliance on 6 Scythes as the primary combat punch 100 points in utility magic that could still fail to cast
  10. Thanks for the excellent post @IndigoGirls! I agree with most everything you wrote. On the Strategic Genius command trait, I don't believe you can select that if you're doing Sylvaneth Allegiance, although maybe someone could correct if that's mistaken? Here's a recent iteration on the prior Gnarlroot build: Treelord Ancient Gnarled Warrior Ignax's Scales Regrowth Drycha Hamadreth Regrowth Branchwraith Ranu's Lamentiri Verdant Blessing Branchwych Acorn of the Ages Throne of Vines 10 Dryads 5 Tree-Revenants 5 Tree-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 6 Kurnoth Scythes 3 Kurnoth Swords Gnarlroot/Household Chronomantic Cogs Balewind Vortex Couple thoughts on the above: Gnarled Warrior + Ignax's Scales may provide better durability than Ethereal Amulet, at the sacrifice of the +1 from Warsinger combo'ing with Cogs for 6+ teleport charges. Instead, you'll be relying more on Cogs to stay on + relying on 7+ charges with (hopefully) a CP RR, which isn't too bad. In my testing with Ethereal Amulet on Durthu at Siegeworld, mortal wounds were still a consistent problem. If the Ancient has a 3+ save, RR 1's to save, ignore -1 rend, and a 4+ vs mortal wounds via Ignax's Scales, I suspect those elements may provide better return vs a broader range of lists/situations. Ranu's + Verdant stays on Branchwraith, even though not giving her Throne sacrifices Dryad-summoning potential, since I'm just not a fan of trying to cast Verdant on 6+, given how important it usually is to have a reliable means of getting Acorn + Verdant down in round 1. Branchwraith should also often be out of unbind range and still in position to summon Dryads, so I'd rather rely on a 6+ (with +1 from Ranu) for that each round than a 6+ for Verdant. Acorn + Throne stays on Branchwych, but the Balewind has been added for the potential to cast Verdurous Harmony with her while keeping her out of unbind range. Balewind would turn Verdurous' 18" range into 24". The 6 Scythes would be the main target, so if they're mid-table rather than deep in enemy territory, the Branchwych could potentially stay in your backfield out of unbind range while still casting Verdurous onto them with her +D3 from Throne. Potential first-turn order of business for Branchwraith and Branchwych: Branchwych: Acorn > Throne > Cogs > Balewind > up to one more spell Branchwraith: Verdant > Roused to Wrath An additional 5 Tree-Revenants provides another utility unit, e.g., for teleporting into Wyldwoods as a screen with 3 Kurnoth Swords or the Ancient behind them. I'm hopeful the list can get away with only 10 Dryads built-in, with 2x5 Tree-Revs + 1x5 Spite-Revs for early-game screening, especially in a Wyldwood. If it can't, though, an alternative is to swap one of the 5 Tree-Revs and the Balewind for another 10 Dryads + Soulsnare Shackles.
  11. Kind of jealous of the fellow who took Durthu and 18 Scythes to Northern Invasion. Not a fan of spam lists, but that's one of the more straightforward, strong Sylvaneth lists I've seen since they launched in 2016.
  12. Amen. That's why at tournaments I usually look anxious and stressed, trying to juggle all the different variables and set things up in the right way. For the most part, the army is very punishing to mistakes.
  13. "... this army is definately straight forward to play!" Is that sarcasm, or are you finding the army straightforward to play?
  14. Spellweaver is just a piece I'd like to test a fair amount, as it seems difficult to judge her value on paper. It's plausible, though, that you could go to a tournament and keep running into opponents where you're grateful to have at least one auto-unbind.
  15. Yeah I'm still a little skeptical about Spellweaver. Spending those last 100pts effectively is important. She could certainly help vs Everblaze, where you could put her on the line, take first, run her forward, and she should be well-within range for auto-unbind. She could also help vs Nagash builds re: Hand of Dust Spellportal. With that said, vs Everblaze, another option is to play more aggressively with some of your units, such that you minimize pieces getting hit, unless your opponent doesn't mind hitting their own. That might compromise bunkering, durability (being in cover in Wyldwoods), and objective play, however. Re: Everblaze, I could be overly concerned about its potential impact. (Haven't faced it yet.) It certainly seems problematic, especially when combined with everything else SCE can do at the moment with their undercosted Sequitors, Evocators, and Gavriel, combined with their teleporting pieces. Doomfire Warlocks, Archmage, Incantor + Everblaze, and Loremaster (140 is a lot...) are worth a closer look as well. Also still interested in testing out 30 Dryads built into Gnarlroot (they certainly seem a solid choice for a better-rounded Dreadwood). They still seem to have a lot of value. It just honestly sucks needing to collect so many damn Dryads, though (from a competitive tournament POV), because of the introduction of summoning, especially when it's another layer on top of allies and the existing incentive to collect multiple ally options, again from a tournament POV.
  16. Re: competitive potential, Gnarlroot seems clearer than Dreadwood at the moment. Certain Gnarlroot builds appear to provide more tools. At the same time, I think a # of armies have builds that are closer to the 5-0 orbit than Sylvaneth, with Sylvaneth moving from solid 3-2 orbit to now solid 4-1 orbit, with greater potential for 5-0, but it's still going to be a tough row at mid-to-large-sized tournaments. Here's one route that's been in mind for a while, with a lot of potential for variation: Treelord Ancient Warsinger Ethereal Amulet Regrowth Drycha Hamadreth Flitterfuries Regrowth Branchwraith Ranu's Lamentiri Verdant Blessing Branchwych Acorn of the Ages Throne of Vines Spellweaver 10 Dryads 5 Tree-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 6 Kurnoth Scythes 3 Kurnoth Swords Gnarlroot/Household Chronomantic Cogs Quicksilver Swords Some variation options: Ancient: Gnarled Warrior + Ghyrstrike or Ignax's Scales instead of Warsinger + Ethereal Amulet Drycha: Squirmlings instead of Flitterfuries Branchwraith: Ranu's + Throne of Vines instead of Ranu's + Verdant Blessing Branchwych: Acorn + Verdant Blessing instead of Acorn + Throne of Vines Spellweaver: Swap in 10 more Dryads or Knight-Azyros for RR 1's to hit vs enemy units <> 10" of Azyros (to help Kurnoth, Ancient, Drycha) Kurnoth Scythes: Split into MSU Quicksilver Swords: Swap Soulsnare Shackles Multiple: Swap Spellweaver, 10 Dryads, and Quicksilver Swords for 5 Spite-Revenants and 20 Eternal Guard Multiple: Swap Spellweaver, 10 Dryads, and Quicksilver Swords for 5 Spite-Revenants and Loremaster Other options: Ishlaen Guard, Morrsarr Guard, Knight-Incantor + Everblaze Comet, Doomfire Warlocks I'll send thoughts soon re: why above looks like a solid competitive option for Sylvaneth, although it still seems closer to 4-1 orbit than 5-0.
  17. Still haven't played Dreadwood but here's some theoryhammer thoughts. It seems like a build that needs a lot of actual practice to inform list choices. At the top, I think three common builds will have either 1) Alarielle and Durthu, 2) Alarielle and Drycha, or 3) Durthu and Drycha. In #2 and #3, you can also add Celestant Prime as a potential high-value betastrike/counterstrike. He seems less interesting as a round 1 alpha, though, since he'll only have 3 attacks. More on him later. It's tough to know which of those three starting points to choose. They have pluses and minuses. For Alarielle and Durthu: Two anti-horde pieces (on paper). Alarielle's three spells, which adds utility when Realm Spells are in effect. Alarielle's summoning, which adds utility ("Do I most need 20 Dryads, 3 Kurnoth X, or a Treelord in this matchup?"). Durthu with an artefact, raising his value (Ethereal Amulet, Ignax's Scales, Doppelganger Cloak, or Ghyrstrike are my top 4 for him). If Ghyrstrike, it would benefit from 1) having Cogs and a reliable way to cast it (i.e. not "relying" on a 7+), and 2) a reliable way to generate x2 Wyldwoods on round 1 in addition to the pre-deploy Wyldwood, so that you establish excellent coverage early for Durthu, Kurnoth, and other combat threats to Navigate Realmroot teleport + then have favorable odds for your teleport charges with Cogs + maybe Warsinger + CP RR. The ability to pull-off teleport charges reliably is part of what makes, e.g., certain Stormcast, Idoneth, and Nighthaunt builds strong right now. Sylvaneth have the same capacity. As mentioned in a prior post, at Siegeworld I was trying out Ethereal Amulet + Mystic Shield + Solemn Guardian on Durthu with Drycha within 6" to benefit from Solemn Guardian. It could've made a difference in a couple games at Siegeworld but I kept forgetting about the rule, having ran a Gnarlroot list for 2 years where it almost never came up. The set up, however, could have merit in Dreadwood with Alarielle and Durthu within 6" of each other for Solemn Guardian, where on a 4+ wounds on her would be re-allocated to Durthu with a 3+ ignore rend save + potentially RR 1's from Mystic Shield, especially since Alarielle has 6 more wounds than Drycha and 2D3 healing + 1D3 for other Sylvaneth units. At the same time, the combo could suffer from a common challenge with Alarielle and Durthu: ~50% of your army will be in one small area on the board. Ignax's Scales (4+ ignore vs mortal wounds) is also tempting on Durthu since he's often the target of enemy mortal wounds. Unfortunately, Solemn Guardian doesn't appear to work with mortal wounds (the rule only says "wounds," not "wounds or mortal wounds"). When thinking about the set of armies you may face at a tournament, Ethereal Amulet vs Ignax's Scales looks like six of one, half a dozen of the other, although the command trait Gnarled Warrior (ignore -1 rend) could be taken on Durthu as your general, which may swing the case in favor of Ignax's Scales, or toward another artefact like Ghyrstrike. Doppelganger Cloak is reasonably compelling, especially as part of a reliable teleport-strike with Cogs (+ potentially Warsinger) and another heavy hitter like Alarielle, Celestant Prime, or 6 Scythes, ensuring (in most instances) two hammer-unit activations before your opponent can strike either of them. At the same time, you're not only relying on Durthu to not whiff his 3+/3+ (assuming he isn't debuffed, which he may be since debuffs are somewhat common now), you're also relying on his base 3+ save + maybe you've skipped Warsinger to give him Gnarled Warrior, along with healing him via Alarielle and Regrowth. On paper, I like the potential of Doppelganger, since it puts more pressure on your opponent to kill Durthu, given the significance of always being able to ensure he can attack in combat before anyone attacks him, which gives you (in principle) an ongoing advantage in the activation game, which may increase your advantage in damage-delivered vs damage-received. Alarielle's command ability can help him as well (once per game, of course), along with Damned scenery or a Knight-Azyros (if you can find 100 points for him), to increase Durthu's to-hit and to-wound reliability. Big topic. More soon.
  18. Sorry for missing this originally. For a more well-rounded Dreadwood list that doesn't rely on hyper-aggressive play, the main element is to incorporate Dryads for screening and objective play, and to have enough for summoning throughout the game. You can also look at Eternal Guard, which are a cheaper screening option at x10 for 70pts or x20 for 140pts, although you lose the one-drop if you take any Eternal Guard. Here's one example: Alarielle Spirit of Durthu Branchwraith 30 Dryads 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 3 Kurnoth Hunters Dreadwood/Outcast 1990 Alternatively, you could swap Durthu for Drycha, another Branchwraith, and a 20-30pt endless spell. Here's one with Eternal Guard: Alarielle Spirit of Durthu Branchwraith Branchwraith 20 Eternal Guard 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 5 Spite-Revenants 3 Kurnoth Hunters Dreadwood/Outcast Chronomantic Cogs
  19. Welcome! If you google "Sylvaneth Spotlight" and "Sylvaneth Faction Focus," you'll find a series of articles on Warhammer Community that should provide a good introduction to the faction: the lore, heroes, units, Wyldwoods, strategy and tactics, and so on.
  20. Looks like a solid list to experiment with. I think Ishlaen Guard are promising in a Sylvaneth list, particularly as a bunker screen in a Wyldwood, giving them a 3+ ignoring rend save. I'd be tempted to do Kurnoth Scythes rather than Swords so that they can be screened in or out of a Wyldwood by Ishlaen Guard or another unit and still swing over the top with their 2" reach. A mainstay of Sylvaneth play is Dryads in a Wyldwood screening Kurnoth Scythes, who then swing over the top. Ishlaen Guard could perform a similar role, although just be careful about Roused by Magic, since Ishlaen would be affected.
  21. Yeah that was another item for the list: our one-drop battalions put more options on the table for us that are missing otherwise, especially the option to take first and alpha-bunker onto objectives within a Wyldwood. I won a lot of games with that basic approach in AoS1. Sylvaneth want to be fighting in and around Wyldwoods most of the time for cover, minimizing enemy footprint, optimizing Roused by Magic and related spells, getting debuffs to hit, and so on.
  22. Re: above, here's some notes on what was learned at Siegeworld last weekend, my first AoS2 event. First, it was an enormous amount of fun! Jeff Naumann puts on a wonderful tournament. All my games and opponents were outstanding. It was two events in one: three 2K games Saturday, three 1K games Sunday. I loved the format, although 90 minutes wasn't quite enough for 1K. For context, I went this year with an experimental-rather-than-competitive mindset. When you're supposed to be an "expert," it's easy to start thinking you need to "do well" consistently. I'm not a fan of that story (it's rather silly and unhealthy), so forced myself to just throw it out. Some experiments included: Taking a toned-down build without much room for summoning additional Dryads (only have 30, which were in the list). Always giving up first turn, if I had fewer drops, and sometimes saying in advance they'll be getting first turn. Not always trying to make optimal choices, e.g., not always going for objectives to force being more on the back foot. Trying out 1x10 Tree-Revenants, skipping one-drop battalions, relying on 6+ Verdant Blessing, etc. Some of what was learned: Time for an updated cheatsheet for AoS2, starting with "Hey dummy, remember you usually don't have to stay on an objective to keep scoring it." My brain kept reverting back to AoS1. As half-expected, 1x10 Tree-Revenants felt like a poor use of 160 points. They were there as a backfield-threat experiment, but they needed to be in combat when no other combats were happening (other combats with higher-priority activations were always happening), since, as always, if you can't activate them first, they'll die to just about anything. At the same time, 1x5 or 2x5 is still a solid bet for Johnny-on-the-spot screening and objective play. In one game, Kurnoth Swords were fighting a combat-build Great Unclean One (GUO), who was on the edge of a Wyldwood. Usually, you want Kurnoth fighting from the comfort of a Wyldwood, giving them a 3+ save + their Tanglethorn Thicket RR. It was proving difficult, though, to keep all 3 in cover and within 1" range to attack the GUO. Kurnoth Scythes, on the other hand, would've managed it with 2" reach. Blight Kings are legitimately terrifying. It was my first time facing a bunch. They were RR'ing hits and wounds and often doing mortal wounds on 6's to hit with Blades of Putrefaction. I knew it was a thing, but experiencing it first hand was horrifying. Drycha with Flitterfuries was the all-star all weekend. I was also trying her out as a combat piece. Not the best idea, it turned out. Her 4+ to hit and 3+ to wound made her too swingy, especially when combined with the randomness of whether she's mad (Enraged) or sad (Embittered). She won't do much of anything in combat when she's sad, and even when mad, the math isn't favorable, unless she has RRs from somewhere. On the other hand, she was hitting 4-5 units a turn with Flitterfuries. If you can keep her alive for 3 rounds, much less 4 or 5, good lord...her mortal wound output can get crazy (Flitterfuries is especially helpful when facing armies with 5-7-wound heroes, like Nighthaunt). Ethereal Amulet + Mystic Shield on Spirit of Durthu was a solid combo, as it is with a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon et al. I kept forgetting about Solemn Guardian, though, which could've helped Drycha survive longer, since she was often in combat within 6" of Durthu. With that said, as usual, Durthu was a primary focus for my opponent's mortal wounds, and he largely decided to take the weekend off, as he's wont to do. I'll have to experiment with Ghyrstrike, as well as Ignax's Scales. The shorter deployment pitch – 9" instead of 12" – on multiple GHB18 scenarios means the pre-deployment Wyldwood can often be placed as a 2-Citadel-Wood-base runway that extends into both deployment zones. So regardless of who chooses deployment sides, you can set up some of your units within 3" of the pre-deployment Wyldwood, such as Dryads or Branchwraiths, in order to trigger their -1 to hit from the start. This also gives you the option to use Acorn of the Ages more aggressively (i.e., up-field), instead of using it as the standard "launchpad" deeper in your deployment zone, since units already deployed within 3" of the pre-deployment Wyldwood can use it as the launchpad. Of course, all of this is situation-dependent. Fighting Alarielle with only 3 Kurnoth Scythes is a terrible idea. Who knew! Talon of the Dwindling removed a Kurnoth model every turn. Acorn of the Ages was as valuable as ever, but not having its tag-team partner (Ranu's Lamentiri for a reliable Verdant Blessing) definitely sucked. I kept failing the 6+ cast for Verdant. Having only the pre-deployment Wyldwood + Acorn, especially when you let your opponent go first and they start zoning out the board, certainly can affect Sylvaneth's mobility and resiliency. Running out of time...more blathering soon!
  23. When the opportunity exists, also interested in trying Spirit of Durthu + Drycha as a combat-threat duo, to try and take advantage of Durthu's Solemn Guardian + Ethereal Amulet + ideally Mystic Shield. On a 4+, wounds to Drycha could be allocated to him, and taken on 3+ ignore rend (+ potentially RR 1's). Since the ability says "...causes a wound...," I'm guessing mortal wounds would not trigger Solemn Guardian? Normally the warscroll would say "wound(s) or mortal wound(s)," but this could be an instance of warscroll writing that's incongruent with their more refined, consistent writing in recent battletomes.
  24. After hundreds of games, I've rolled snake eyes or 3 on Ranu's + Verdant enough that I'm leery to gamble again. It shouldn't fail, but it can. Definitely appreciate why folks prefer it, though. Also like the potential to get two woods out round 1 re: Acorn + Verdant and keeping caster out of unbind range. First version of the list had Acorn on one BW and Ranu's + Verdant on the other, but wanting to try out Ethereal Amulet on Durthu. Unfortunately don't have Alarielle quite yet -- should have her ready to go by October.
  25. One variation considered: Put Verdant Blessing on Branchwraith with Acorn of the Ages, and Throne of Vines on the other Branchwraith; Deploy Throne of Vines Branchwraith in a spot where she can stay put, ideally out of unbind range; Cast Throne of Vines, with intention to summon Dryads in succeeding turns with the +D3 to cast (and potentially +D3 to unbind if any enemy Wizards have moved within unbind range).
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