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scrubyandwells

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Posts posted by scrubyandwells


  1. 1 hour ago, scrubyandwells said:

    Attended the 1 day'er Realm of Rad yesterday (22 players) with my friend Scott Sproul. It was hosted by Edmond Unplugged, a brilliant FLGS in Edmond, Oklahoma (serving pizza, beer, etc.), and organized by Ben Cornelius of the Lords of the Realms podcast. Thanks so much to them for a fun event!

    Similar to Siegeworld last Aug, I just wanted to attend with a learning, experimental mindset, in particular to learn more about: 

    • How well can Sylvaneth compete without a one drop and with 20 Dryads (+ no Dryad summoning)
    • Alarielle and how to play her (6 games in after getting her a couple months ago)
    • Celestant-Prime's potential value in a Sylvaneth list
    • Kurnoth Bows' present value and in-game realities of playing them with 6+ Citadel Wood bases reducing LoS 
    • Whether Drycha is worth it, e.g., whether Flitterfuries can provide enough value (or to do Squirmlings), especially with Wyldwoods blocking LoS
    • How to deploy Sylvaneth non-one-drop in certain matchups 
    • How to build a competitive non-one-drop list, with low model count, capable of going 4-1

    Re: #1-#5 above:

    1) After six games across two 1 day'ers, it has felt difficult, as expected, to compete with only 20 Dryads. No shock there.

    2) Same with the non-one-drop, but all of the losses have been close so far, except the game vs Gorefist, but that game was principally lost on my poor deployment.

    A non-one-drop seems clearly less forgiving to mistakes, especially in deployment, with more potential for the unexpected. You can find yourself in situations where you can't even get a second or third Wyldwood on the table, due to enemy units getting in your face before you've had a turn, or failing to cast Verdant without Ranu's, etc.

    3) Celestant-Prime wasn't that useful over the weekend, but those were my first three games with him. More experience needed. With that said, I was skeptical about his value on paper, especially at 340. If you drop him round 1 to use the comet, I don't know if he'll do enough over the game for his points. If you hold him until round 2, he's still capable of flubbing 5 attacks at 3's to hit, especially with the considerable # of to-hit debuffs in the game. And if you're waiting to strike with him in round 3, that might be too late in the game to make a difference, especially since you'll be playing 340pts down for two rounds. And as everyone knows, with a 3+ save and only 8 wounds, he dies incredibly easily. 

    4) Unfortunately, Kurnoth Bows didn't do much over the weekend either. I was rolling consistently poor for them. The Wyldwood LoS-blocking wasn't much of an issue, however. It was just the usual frustration with their 4+ to hit that Sylvaneth players have been experiencing over the last couple years, especially now that Look Out, Sir! turns that 4+ into a 5+.

    I still kind of like the idea of taking 3 of them in a list with Alarielle, so you have the ability to summon 3 more when you need targeted ranged damage (e.g., vs a Tzeentch caster-heavy list). At the same time, it can feel like you're playing 200pts down when they consistently do nothing, and you'd often much rather have 20 Dryads on the board.

    5) Drycha's Flitterfuries were solid in the 1 day'er last August, but a little less valuable this weekend. In game 1 vs Khorne, though, they were outstanding, as she never died and continually pinged off a couple mortal wounds on multiple units/heroes each round. It's hard to know how she would've fared in game 2, since my deployment lost that game from the start. And in game 3 vs Nighthaunt, their heroes were too far spread out for Flitterfuries to have much impact. She was consistent on one front, though: She was both worthless in combat and sad/embittered the entire weekend, outside of one round, just before she was about to die to a bunch of pigs. 

    I'd like to try out Squirmlings at a 1 day'er, although it would've only had relevance vs Nighthaunt this weekend. Maybe if you can keep her screened by lots of Dryads, which are then fighting a blob unit, you can have Drycha's Squirmlings in close enough range to do a lot of mortal wounds to that unit.

    In general, I'm increasingly skeptical about Drycha's value at the moment. Since she dies quite easily and tends to do nothing in combat, you're spending 280pts on her as a 10-wound Wizard and for her Flitterfuries or Squirmlings. If you could actually choose which one she uses each game, she would be more interesting, but since you can only take one for an entire event, you'll often have matchups where she has the wrong one.

    I'll follow up re: #6-#7 above.

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  2. Attended the 1 day'er Realm of Rad yesterday (22 players) with my friend Scott Sproul (who won Best Painted!). It was hosted by Edmond Unplugged, a brilliant FLGS in Edmond, Oklahoma (serving pizza, beer, etc.), and organized by Ben Cornelius of the Lords of the Realms podcast. Thanks so much to them for a fun event!

    Similar to Siegeworld last Aug, I just wanted to attend with a learning, experimental mindset, in particular to learn more about: 

    • How well can Sylvaneth compete without a one drop and with 20 Dryads (+ no Dryad summoning)
    • Alarielle and how to play her (6 games in after getting her a couple months ago)
    • Celestant-Prime's potential value in a Sylvaneth list
    • Kurnoth Bows' present value and in-game realities of playing them with 6+ Citadel Wood bases reducing LoS 
    • Whether Drycha is worth it, e.g., whether Flitterfuries can provide enough value (or to do Squirmlings), especially with Wyldwoods blocking LoS
    • How to deploy Sylvaneth non-one-drop in certain matchups 
    • How to build a competitive non-one-drop list, with low model count, capable of going 4-1

    Played Khorne Council of Blood, Ironjawz Gorefist, and Nighthaunt with a lot of bodies and mix of units. We didn't use realm rules, except below in ().

    My list (at the event, each caster could take a spell from your battletome, or instead, a spell from your realm of choice, but not both):

    • Alarielle w/ Regrowth
    • Drycha w/ Spellshroud 
    • Branchwraith w/ Acorn + Verdant
    • Celestant-Prime
    • 10 Dryads
    • 10 Dryads
    • 5 Spites
    • 3 Kurnoth Bows
    • 3 Kurnoth Swords
    • Prismatic Palisade

    Game 1, Khorne, Scorched Earth: 

    This one went well. His Bloodthirsters were on his middle and left side, without a lot of support for his middle and right side objectives beyond Flesh Hounds. He should've given me first turn, though, for a chance at the double, as a double from Council of Blood is scary, especially vs low model count.

    I used teleporting to keep away from him, doing as much ranged damage as possible with Alarielle, 2x3 Kurnoth Bows (Alarielle summoned 1x3), Drycha's Flitterfuries, and the Prime's comet. The Prime dropped early to kill the Flesh Hounds on his right side objective and help chip away in general with his comet. 

    His dice were horrific all game, though. Some of the worst I've seen. 

    Game 2, Ironjawz, Places of Arcane Power:

    This was the first time facing Gorefist. He he had a supercharged version with 18 Gore-Gruntas, along with starting the game with 4 CP, so 5 CP in round one. His list was excellent. Had a number of cool elements, including Aetherquartz Brooch to try and keep generating extra CP for boosting his Waaaagh!.

    His army was the very definition of a mobile anvil, designed to keep you pinned in your deployment while his heroes score on objectives. That's what happened, although I made two mistakes that lost the game in deployment, one rather obvious and one a little less so: 

    1) I was playing pretty casually and not thinking about how hard Gore-Gruntas could hit with the potential to stack so many CP, along with the realities of Smashing and Bashing. In light of that, my key pieces should've been more than 4" behind my screening 2x10 Dryads and 5 Spites.

    He went first, so that would've meant he would just wipe out the Dryads and Spites, and then face Alarielle, Drycha, 3 Kurnoth Swords, and 3 Kurnoth Bows, along with Alarielle summoning 3 more Kurnoth Swords within 9" of her and 9" from the Gore-Gruntas for an 8+ charge (Warsinger). Alarielle's CA would've gone off as well for RR'ing wounds, and his Waaaagh! would not have been nearly as scary outside of his first initial turn.

    I think it still would've been a tough game, though, because of the second deployment mistake.

    2) Not only didn't I put the key pieces more than 4" away from the screens, I didn't leave enough space to summon Wyldwoods. He had 15 pigs immediately in my face, piling in and taking up lots of space with their big asses (er, bases), so it was impossible to get a launchpad Wyldwood down to get units out of my deployment in order to start threatening objectives.

    Here's what probably would've been better: stretching my 25-model screen along the deployment line, and then leaving plenty of open space behind them for placing the Acorn Wyldwood, with Alarielle and other key pieces well-off the deployment line and out of the way from where the Acorn Wyldwood would drop.

    Another issue was I kept failing the Branchwraith's Verdant on a 6+. Not having both Acorn and Ranu's (for a 4+ on Verdant) can greatly hurt our mobility.

    Despite my oops on deployment, thank you to Tim for the enjoyable game!

    Game 3, Nighthaunt, Relocation Orb:

    This game was against a new player, so with the loss in round 2, I just wanted to see how well the list could (or couldn't!) chew through Nighthaunt rather than worrying about the mission. He had a handful of heroes, 3x20 Chainrasp, 20 Reapers, 12 Banshees, and a Black Coach. 

    The obvious stand out was Dryads: -1 to hit + 2 attacks a model makes them ideal vs Nighthaunt. The thought of 20 in cover with a 3+ save (or 4+ vs -1 rend), putting out up to 41 attacks.... The popularity of Nighthaunt is another strong case for the Dryad spam we've been seeing since GHB17.

    As expected, Kurnoth Swords were pretty good vs Nighthaunt. 

    Alarielle, Kurnoth Bows, and Drycha were underwhelming. Alarielle was hurt, as you'd expect, by the Nighthaunt's common 4+ ignoring rend save. The Celestant-Prime is also negated vs Nighthaunt for the same reason. His comet can help, in principle, but Nighthaunt players are pretty incentivized to spread out their heroes, tying them to different units, based on the buffing role they play in the game.

    If we had gone 5 rounds, I probably would've chewed through most of the army. Nighthaunt seem pretty tough, though. They have a lot of the right elements to compete on top tables: bodies, mobility, resiliency/healing, damage output, etc.

    This post is getting along, so I'll follow up with another one shortly. 

    Had a blast at the event, though, and learned a lot. Thanks to my opponents for three fun games! Was also grateful to receive Favorite Opponent/Game!

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  3. 8 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

    Thanks for the thoughts! Appreciated your non-standard list + excellent write up on the tournament. 

    Slowly getting SCE together as a second army. Have been thinking about 2x10 Eternal Guard as screens (not a fan of Skink models). EG seem like a reasonable buy at 70, but Aetherwings are interesting at 20 less + Scions. No Watchful Guardians synergy, though, since theming around Sacrosanct.

    Just going for low-model Sacrosanct 2K + allies w/ fave models that could at least pull 3-2 at events.

    Presently stuck on Prime (seems inefficient but fave SCE model), Arcanum (on foot or Gryph), Castellant, Azyros, 1x10 Seq, 2x5 Seq, 1x6 or 2x3 Kittycators, and 2x10 Eternal Guard.

    Missing: Non-Scions teleport e.g. Vexillor or Relictor, and ranged damage.


  4. 4 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

    They are amazing against elite armies, and speed bumps for horde type armies.

    If your opponent is counting on sneaking a unit into the back field and doing a sneak attack, they can completely unravel those plans. But if you’re facing some “tide” type army that just sort of washes over you, they are almost non existent.

     I consider them to be subtle units, to use with subtle tactics.

    In general I’m not sure how I feel about the list I brought to masters. It’s a good list but it still doesn’t seem to address the core problems I’ve been having.

     I’m still thinking about it.

    Thanks for the thoughts! Appreciated your non-standard list + excellent write up on the tournament. 

    Slowly getting SCE together as a second army. Have been thinking about 2x10 Eternal Guard as screens (not a fan of Skink models). EG seem like a reasonable buy at 70, but Aetherwings are interesting at 20 less + Scions. No Watchful Guardians synergy, though, since theming around Sacrosanct.


  5. On 12/2/2018 at 9:23 AM, Mark Williams said:

    See attached image. Without understanding exactly how it functions, I imagine someone might do very poorly with them. The entire army is essentially a guard for the general and raptors. Half the units that started off the table were placed around them after they relocated, so basically were replacement chaff designed ti try to bait you into getting gummed up in useless fights. A very clever list imo. 

    81526429-8A11-4487-A11F-FF7B38409C52.jpeg

    That's the craziest damn list I've seen in a while. Shaun is a madman.

    How well do you think Aetherwings do as screens in general? 


  6. Re: the following five...

    • Endless spells
    • Realm artefacts
    • Realm spells
    • Realm commands
    • Realmscape features

    I think endless spells stand out as a net-positive for AoS. A nice balance of originality and flavor, light touch (simplicity and non-outsized impact), and $ opportunity.

    The other four are a net-negative on the AoS experience in my view, at least for MP tournaments, with maybe the exception of realm artefacts.

    A strength of AoS has been its relative simplicity and elegance.

    If you're a serious competitive player, you may be happy to invest the effort to become deeply familiar with the above; and you may also not mind the in-game experience of needing to be prepared and capable of both remembering and making sound choices in relation to the additional features.

    If you're a casual competitive player, you may find the realm elements lessen your enjoyment. They may reflect a crossing point, where the amount of intimate knowledge required to compete becomes burdensome.

    Personally, I'm casually competitive... The various realm rules feel burdensome, especially when they're having an outsized impact on the game and all my brain wants to do is just ignore the damn things.

    If going to Holy Wars (a narrative event), and playing on a Realm of Death table with Death scenery + realm spells/features/etc., then absolutely, sign me up. If going to Las Vegas Open's AoS Championship to play competitive AoS, no thanks.

    They seem to run counter to 'immersion' at a competitive tournament. They add undue complexity without meaningful benefit. 

    With that said, I can live with realm artefacts, but as a solution to one commonly-perceived intent (providing more choice to armies without a battletome), they seem like a bloated approach, again for MP.

    Ubiquitous artefacts could be modified annually, but unless the design space is better constrained, with less variance in value, then the same issue will continue: A small number of artefacts will be used commonly, and a majority of them will be ignored.

    Of course, I could be wrong. It happens. A lot. 

    cc: @Vincent Venturella, @Thomas Lyons, @Brendan_Bear, @David Griffin, @Lhw, @ianob

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  7. Hi @Lemon Knuckles, thanks very much for this effort. Looking at your latest list of units, I didn't find much to disagree with. Your outputs largely matched up with my personal evaluations.

    The only area that seemed problematic were some of the shooting units. Your results often seemed to overvalue shooting units relative to my personal sense. The nature and overall landscape of AoS2 has lowered the aggregate value of shooting. I think we've seen this reflected in tournament results over the last six months.

    To look at a few examples:

    * Arkanauts - Gunk: 153 | GH18: 120
    * Judicators - Gunk: 159 | GH18: 160
    * Kurnoth Hunters - Gunk: 211 | GH18: 200
    * Savage Orruk Arrowboys - Gunk: 165 | GH18: 140

    In each of the above, Gunk doesn't quite match up with my personal valuation, given the collective set of variables in AoS2 that lowers the value, on average, of shooting in the game. (FWIW, personally, I prefer a weighting in AoS that favors, moderately, combat over shooting/magic.)

    E.g., while I agree 210pts is a reasonable reflection of the value of Kurnoth Scythes and Swords, I think 210pts, or 200pts, is an overestimation of the value of Kurnoth Bows. The same applies with Judicators: In GH17, 160pts seemed spot-on for them, but in GH18, it seems 20pts too high, whereas Gunk thought it was still spot-on. 

    For reference, here's some of the currently-problematic units in the game that I thought your system largely nailed:

    * Grimghast Reapers - Gunk: 170 | GH18: 140
    * Morrsarr Guard - Gunk: 189 | GH18: 160 (note: your spreadsheet had 140, the pts for Ishlaen Guard in GH18)

    * Witch Aelves - Gunk: 136 | GH18: 100 (I could see some argue 136 is too high; a couple of DoK rules make Witch Aelves especially terrifying currently)
    * Dire Wolves - Gunk: 79 | GH18: 60
    * Sequitors - Gunk: 143 | GH18: 120
    * Evocators - Gunk: 232 | GH18: 200

    cc: @Thomas Lyons

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  8. 15 hours ago, Lhw said:

    My 35 model AoS 1 Sylvaneth army is now a 74 model Sylvaneth army... I do feel kind of dirty for taking this route. 

    Just some friendly ribbing my friend. ;-D 74 models is on the lower end compared to quite a few armies. 


  9. 18 hours ago, Lhw said:

    @scrubyandwells Such slander. I'm just a really nice, all round good guy. Got an award to prove it and all. Alarielle, and the rest of the army, look incredible. Needs more dryads though 😉

    Some of us still have ethical standards and refuse to play Sylvaneth as a Dryad-horde army, your multiple top 5 finishes be damned. 😜

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  10. Hey dendrophiles!

    Haven't been around in a while, but wanted to pop in and share some recent additions, thanks to the brilliant folks at Unlimited Colours.

    The sublime Queen herself finally arrived yesterday.

    Her appearance put me at ease after seeing the (seductive) abomination @Vincent Venturella created last week. That man has issues. 

    Props to all of you doing the Goddess proud at tournaments of late, especially that scoundrel @LhwAnd apparently he won a sports award? Who rigged that vote?

    :) 

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  11. 9 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

    Here's a recent iteration on the prior Gnarlroot build: 

    • Treelord Ancient
      • Gnarled Warrior
      • Ignax's Scales
      • Regrowth
    • Drycha Hamadreth
      • Regrowth
    • Branchwraith
      • Ranu's Lamentiri
      • Verdant Blessing
    • Branchwych
      • Acorn of the Ages
      • Throne of Vines
    • 10 Dryads
    • 5 Tree-Revenants
    • 5 Tree-Revenants
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 6 Kurnoth Scythes
    • 3 Kurnoth Swords
    • Gnarlroot/Household
    • Chronomantic Cogs
    • Balewind Vortex

    Still not in love with that build. It has some clear flaws, e.g.:

    • a fair # of points in utility pieces that die easily (Dryads, Tree-Revs, Spite-Revs)
    • a more-survivable Ancient who will still often fluff shooting and melee
    • a strong reliance on 6 Scythes as the primary combat punch
    • 100 points in utility magic that could still fail to cast
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  12. 18 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

    Buckle up folks, this is going to be a long post. See above post but here is a non-battalion list I'm going to try. I call it"Look ma, no battalions"

    It's a wrap folks.

    Thanks for the excellent post @IndigoGirls! I agree with most everything you wrote.

    On the Strategic Genius command trait, I don't believe you can select that if you're doing Sylvaneth Allegiance, although maybe someone could correct if that's mistaken?

    Here's a recent iteration on the prior Gnarlroot build: 

    • Treelord Ancient
      • Gnarled Warrior
      • Ignax's Scales
      • Regrowth
    • Drycha Hamadreth
      • Regrowth
    • Branchwraith
      • Ranu's Lamentiri
      • Verdant Blessing
    • Branchwych
      • Acorn of the Ages
      • Throne of Vines
    • 10 Dryads
    • 5 Tree-Revenants
    • 5 Tree-Revenants
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 6 Kurnoth Scythes
    • 3 Kurnoth Swords
    • Gnarlroot/Household
    • Chronomantic Cogs
    • Balewind Vortex

    Couple thoughts on the above:

    • Gnarled Warrior + Ignax's Scales may provide better durability than Ethereal Amulet, at the sacrifice of the +1 from Warsinger combo'ing with Cogs for 6+ teleport charges. Instead, you'll be relying more on Cogs to stay on + relying on 7+ charges with (hopefully) a CP RR, which isn't too bad.
      • In my testing with Ethereal Amulet on Durthu at Siegeworld, mortal wounds were still a consistent problem. If the Ancient has a 3+ save, RR 1's to save, ignore -1 rend, and a 4+ vs mortal wounds via Ignax's Scales, I suspect those elements may provide better return vs a broader range of lists/situations.
    • Ranu's + Verdant stays on Branchwraith, even though not giving her Throne sacrifices Dryad-summoning potential, since I'm just not a fan of trying to cast Verdant on 6+, given how important it usually is to have a reliable means of getting Acorn + Verdant down in round 1. Branchwraith should also often be out of unbind range and still in position to summon Dryads, so I'd rather rely on a 6+ (with +1 from Ranu) for that each round than a 6+ for Verdant.
    • Acorn + Throne stays on Branchwych, but the Balewind has been added for the potential to cast Verdurous Harmony with her while keeping her out of unbind range. Balewind would turn Verdurous' 18" range into 24". The 6 Scythes would be the main target, so if they're mid-table rather than deep in enemy territory, the Branchwych could potentially stay in your backfield out of unbind range while still casting Verdurous onto them with her +D3 from Throne.
    • Potential first-turn order of business for Branchwraith and Branchwych:
      • Branchwych: Acorn > Throne > Cogs > Balewind > up to one more spell
      • Branchwraith: Verdant > Roused to Wrath
    • An additional 5 Tree-Revenants provides another utility unit, e.g., for teleporting into Wyldwoods as a screen with 3 Kurnoth Swords or the Ancient behind them. I'm hopeful the list can get away with only 10 Dryads built-in, with 2x5 Tree-Revs + 1x5 Spite-Revs for early-game screening, especially in a Wyldwood. If it can't, though, an alternative is to swap one of the 5 Tree-Revs and the Balewind for another 10 Dryads + Soulsnare Shackles. 

     

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  13. Just now, scrubyandwells said:

    Amen. That's why at tournaments I usually look anxious and stressed, trying to juggle all the different variables and set things up in the right way. For the most part, the army is very punishing to mistakes. 

    Kind of jealous of the fellow who took Durthu and 18 Scythes to Northern Invasion. Not a fan of spam lists, but that's one of the more straightforward, strong Sylvaneth lists I've seen since they launched in 2016. 


  14. 1 hour ago, AaronWIlson said:

    What I actually meant to say is the army isn't straight forward to play! There is so much going on every turn and I feel like you HAVE to be making use of all the oppurtinites open to you to be playing the army even somewhat competently.

    Amen. That's why at tournaments I usually look anxious and stressed, trying to juggle all the different variables and set things up in the right way. For the most part, the army is very punishing to mistakes. 


  15. 4 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

    Second 2k list test against Tzeentch was a loss... this army is definately straight forward to play! 13-12 loss on better part of valour. I only lost to it a key double turn but none the lesss still a bitter pill to swallow. The practice carries on next week with games v Maggotkin & Nighthaunt.

    "... this army is definately straight forward to play!" 

    Is that sarcasm, or are you finding the army straightforward to play? :)


  16. Just now, scrubyandwells said:

    Yeah I'm still a little skeptical about Spellweaver. Spending those last 100pts effectively is important.

    She could certainly help vs Everblaze, where you could put her on the line, take first, run her forward, and she should be well-within range for auto-unbind. She could also help vs Nagash builds re: Hand of Dust Spellportal.

    With that said, vs Everblaze, another option is to play more aggressively with some of your units, such that you minimize pieces getting hit, unless your opponent doesn't mind hitting their own. That might compromise bunkering, durability (being in cover in Wyldwoods), and objective play, however.

    Re: Everblaze, I could be overly concerned about its potential impact. (Haven't faced it yet.) It certainly seems problematic, especially when combined with everything else SCE can do at the moment with their undercosted Sequitors, Evocators, and Gavriel, combined with their teleporting pieces.

    Doomfire Warlocks, Archmage, Incantor + Everblaze, and Loremaster (140 is a lot...) are worth a closer look as well.

    Also still interested in testing out 30 Dryads built into Gnarlroot (they certainly seem a solid choice for a better-rounded Dreadwood). They still seem to have a lot of value. It just honestly sucks needing to collect so many damn Dryads, though (from a competitive tournament POV), because of the introduction of summoning, especially when it's another layer on top of allies and the existing incentive to collect multiple ally options, again from a tournament POV.

    Spellweaver is just a piece I'd like to test a fair amount, as it seems difficult to judge her value on paper. It's plausible, though, that you could go to a tournament and keep running into opponents where you're grateful to have at least one auto-unbind.


  17. 3 minutes ago, Craze said:

    @scrubyandwells Thanks a lot for you thoughts and the detailed write-up!

     

    One question: Do you think Spellweaver is the best choice we have in Gnarlroot? What does she add apart from the auto-unbind?

    Yeah I'm still a little skeptical about Spellweaver. Spending those last 100pts effectively is important.

    She could certainly help vs Everblaze, where you could put her on the line, take first, run her forward, and she should be well-within range for auto-unbind. She could also help vs Nagash builds re: Hand of Dust Spellportal.

    With that said, vs Everblaze, another option is to play more aggressively with some of your units, such that you minimize pieces getting hit, unless your opponent doesn't mind hitting their own. That might compromise bunkering, durability (being in cover in Wyldwoods), and objective play, however.

    Re: Everblaze, I could be overly concerned about its potential impact. (Haven't faced it yet.) It certainly seems problematic, especially when combined with everything else SCE can do at the moment with their undercosted Sequitors, Evocators, and Gavriel, combined with their teleporting pieces.

    Doomfire Warlocks, Archmage, Incantor + Everblaze, and Loremaster (140 is a lot...) are worth a closer look as well.

    Also still interested in testing out 30 Dryads built into Gnarlroot (they certainly seem a solid choice for a better-rounded Dreadwood). They still seem to have a lot of value. It just honestly sucks needing to collect so many damn Dryads, though (from a competitive tournament POV), because of the introduction of summoning, especially when it's another layer on top of allies and the existing incentive to collect multiple ally options, again from a tournament POV.


  18. Re: competitive potential, Gnarlroot seems clearer than Dreadwood at the moment. Certain Gnarlroot builds appear to provide more tools. At the same time, I think a # of armies have builds that are closer to the 5-0 orbit than Sylvaneth, with Sylvaneth moving from solid 3-2 orbit to now solid 4-1 orbit, with greater potential for 5-0, but it's still going to be a tough row at mid-to-large-sized tournaments.

    Here's one route that's been in mind for a while, with a lot of potential for variation:

    • Treelord Ancient
      • Warsinger
      • Ethereal Amulet
      • Regrowth
    • Drycha Hamadreth
      • Flitterfuries
      • Regrowth
    • Branchwraith
      • Ranu's Lamentiri
      • Verdant Blessing
    • Branchwych
      • Acorn of the Ages
      • Throne of Vines
    • Spellweaver
    • 10 Dryads
    • 5 Tree-Revenants
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 6 Kurnoth Scythes
    • 3 Kurnoth Swords
    • Gnarlroot/Household
    • Chronomantic Cogs
    • Quicksilver Swords

    Some variation options:

    • Ancient: Gnarled Warrior + Ghyrstrike or Ignax's Scales instead of Warsinger + Ethereal Amulet
    • Drycha: Squirmlings instead of Flitterfuries
    • Branchwraith: Ranu's + Throne of Vines instead of Ranu's + Verdant Blessing
    • Branchwych: Acorn + Verdant Blessing instead of Acorn + Throne of Vines 
    • Spellweaver: Swap in 10 more Dryads or Knight-Azyros for RR 1's to hit vs enemy units <> 10" of Azyros (to help Kurnoth, Ancient, Drycha)
    • Kurnoth Scythes: Split into MSU
    • Quicksilver Swords: Swap Soulsnare Shackles
    • Multiple: Swap Spellweaver, 10 Dryads, and Quicksilver Swords for 5 Spite-Revenants and 20 Eternal Guard
    • Multiple: Swap Spellweaver, 10 Dryads, and Quicksilver Swords for 5 Spite-Revenants and Loremaster
    • Other options: Ishlaen Guard, Morrsarr Guard, Knight-Incantor + Everblaze Comet, Doomfire Warlocks

    I'll send thoughts soon re: why above looks like a solid competitive option for Sylvaneth, although it still seems closer to 4-1 orbit than 5-0.

    • Thanks 2

  19. 20 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

    @scrubyandwells would love your advice on how to run a competitive Dreadwood army 

    Coming off my two games yesterday I need to play less wrecklessly and not underestimate powerful units and try to pick them apart instead of going head on

    Still haven't played Dreadwood but here's some theoryhammer thoughts. It seems like a build that needs a lot of actual practice to inform list choices.

    At the top, I think three common builds will have either 1) Alarielle and Durthu, 2) Alarielle and Drycha, or 3) Durthu and Drycha.

    In #2 and #3, you can also add Celestant Prime as a potential high-value betastrike/counterstrike. He seems less interesting as a round 1 alpha, though, since he'll only have 3 attacks. More on him later.

    It's tough to know which of those three starting points to choose. They have pluses and minuses. 

    For Alarielle and Durthu:

    • Two anti-horde pieces (on paper).
    • Alarielle's three spells, which adds utility when Realm Spells are in effect.
    • Alarielle's summoning, which adds utility ("Do I most need 20 Dryads, 3 Kurnoth X, or a Treelord in this matchup?").
    • Durthu with an artefact, raising his value (Ethereal Amulet, Ignax's Scales, Doppelganger Cloak, or Ghyrstrike are my top 4 for him).
      • If Ghyrstrike, it would benefit from 1) having Cogs and a reliable way to cast it (i.e. not "relying" on a 7+), and 2) a reliable way to generate x2 Wyldwoods on round 1 in addition to the pre-deploy Wyldwood, so that you establish excellent coverage early for Durthu, Kurnoth, and other combat threats to Navigate Realmroot teleport + then have favorable odds for your teleport charges with Cogs + maybe Warsinger + CP RR.
      • The ability to pull-off teleport charges reliably is part of what makes, e.g., certain Stormcast, Idoneth, and Nighthaunt builds strong right now. Sylvaneth have the same capacity.
      • As mentioned in a prior post, at Siegeworld I was trying out Ethereal Amulet + Mystic Shield + Solemn Guardian on Durthu with Drycha within 6" to benefit from Solemn Guardian. It could've made a difference in a couple games at Siegeworld but I kept forgetting about the rule, having ran a Gnarlroot list for 2 years where it almost never came up. The set up, however, could have merit in Dreadwood with Alarielle and Durthu within 6" of each other for Solemn Guardian, where on a 4+ wounds on her would be re-allocated to Durthu with a 3+ ignore rend save + potentially RR 1's from Mystic Shield, especially since Alarielle has 6 more wounds than Drycha and 2D3 healing + 1D3 for other Sylvaneth units. At the same time, the combo could suffer from a common challenge with Alarielle and Durthu: ~50% of your army will be in one small area on the board.
      • Ignax's Scales (4+ ignore vs mortal wounds) is also tempting on Durthu since he's often the target of enemy mortal wounds. Unfortunately, Solemn Guardian doesn't appear to work with mortal wounds (the rule only says "wounds," not "wounds or mortal wounds"). When thinking about the set of armies you may face at a tournament, Ethereal Amulet vs Ignax's Scales looks like six of one, half a dozen of the other, although the command trait Gnarled Warrior (ignore -1 rend) could be taken on Durthu as your general, which may swing the case in favor of Ignax's Scales, or toward another artefact like Ghyrstrike.
      • Doppelganger Cloak is reasonably compelling, especially as part of a reliable teleport-strike with Cogs (+ potentially Warsinger) and another heavy hitter like Alarielle, Celestant Prime, or 6 Scythes, ensuring (in most instances) two hammer-unit activations before your opponent can strike either of them. At the same time, you're not only relying on Durthu to not whiff his 3+/3+ (assuming he isn't debuffed, which he may be since debuffs are somewhat common now), you're also relying on his base 3+ save + maybe you've skipped Warsinger to give him Gnarled Warrior, along with healing him via Alarielle and Regrowth.
      • On paper, I like the potential of Doppelganger, since it puts more pressure on your opponent to kill Durthu, given the significance of always being able to ensure he can attack in combat before anyone attacks him, which gives you (in principle) an ongoing advantage in the activation game, which may increase your advantage in damage-delivered vs damage-received. Alarielle's command ability can help him as well (once per game, of course), along with Damned scenery or a Knight-Azyros (if you can find 100 points for him), to increase Durthu's to-hit and to-wound reliability. 

    Big topic. More soon.

    • Thanks 2

  20. On 8/13/2018 at 11:58 PM, Drillz said:

    @scrubyandwells how would you build a non alphastrike dreadwood? Would you be dropping Prime for something else?  I listen to warhammer weekly episode and it seemed to focus on the alphastrike side of dreadwood but less on the non alphastrike. Also looking the past 3 big tournaments dreadwood didn’t seem to be placing that high and people at going for no battalions or gnarlroot or the 1 harvest list. 

    Sorry for missing this originally.

    For a more well-rounded Dreadwood list that doesn't rely on hyper-aggressive play, the main element is to incorporate Dryads for screening and objective play, and to have enough for summoning throughout the game. You can also look at Eternal Guard, which are a cheaper screening option at x10 for 70pts or x20 for 140pts, although you lose the one-drop if you take any Eternal Guard.

    Here's one example:

    • Alarielle
    • Spirit of Durthu
    • Branchwraith
    • 30 Dryads
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 3 Kurnoth Hunters
    • Dreadwood/Outcast
    • 1990

    Alternatively, you could swap Durthu for Drycha, another Branchwraith, and a 20-30pt endless spell.

    Here's one with Eternal Guard:

    • Alarielle
    • Spirit of Durthu
    • Branchwraith
    • Branchwraith
    • 20 Eternal Guard
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 5 Spite-Revenants
    • 3 Kurnoth Hunters
    • Dreadwood/Outcast
    • Chronomantic Cogs

  21. 15 minutes ago, Hankster said:

    Oh wise old treemen and branchywychs!

    I'm new to wargaming and the Age of Sigmar. I've been playing a bit with 1k Ironjawz army and I think I'd like to try the Sylvaneth. The combination of magic and behemoths with area denial/support from wyldwoods looks very interesting tactically. Plus the look damn cool!

     Can anyone suggest a good approach for a novice and where to start with the faction (besides the start collecting box)? 

     Thanks! 

    Welcome!

    If you google "Sylvaneth Spotlight" and "Sylvaneth Faction Focus," you'll find a series of articles on Warhammer Community that should provide a good introduction to the faction: the lore, heroes, units, Wyldwoods, strategy and tactics, and so on. 

    • Like 1

  22. On 8/28/2018 at 12:03 PM, Twh30 said:

    Hi there looking for some opinions on this list

    leaders

    • treelord ancient
    • branchwraith
    • Branchwych 
    • spirit of durthu
    • Battleline
    • tree revenants x5
    • tree revenants x5
    • dryads x30
    • other units
    • kurnoth hunters with swords x3
    • allies
    • akhelian ishlaen guard x3
    • akhelian ishlaen guard x3
    • Household battalion 
    • Gnarlroot wargrove

    now was thinking could take out dryads and add spite revenants plus kurnoth hunters or take dryads and durthu out and add drycha plus another Treelord ancient? Options welcome thank you .

    Looks like a solid list to experiment with. I think Ishlaen Guard are promising in a Sylvaneth list, particularly as a bunker screen in a Wyldwood, giving them a 3+ ignoring rend save. I'd be tempted to do Kurnoth Scythes rather than Swords so that they can be screened in or out of a Wyldwood by Ishlaen Guard or another unit and still swing over the top with their 2" reach. A mainstay of Sylvaneth play is Dryads in a Wyldwood screening Kurnoth Scythes, who then swing over the top. Ishlaen Guard could perform a similar role, although just be careful about Roused by Magic, since Ishlaen would be affected.


  23. 9 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

    Thank you for the write up @scrubyandwells :D totally agree on the Wyldwood note. I really struggle if the opponent feels up the board super fast and I can't get those Wyldwoods out. I got smashed by Stormcast last night (Gabriel & 20 Sequitors, dear lord please) and he did a lot of deep striking and really cluttered the board up, I actually think in games like that I'd be tempted to take the first turn just to put out some defensive wyldwoods. Yes I risk the double turn but I think it's bad either way!

    Yeah that was another item for the list: our one-drop battalions put more options on the table for us that are missing otherwise, especially the option to take first and alpha-bunker onto objectives within a Wyldwood. I won a lot of games with that basic approach in AoS1. Sylvaneth want to be fighting in and around Wyldwoods most of the time for cover, minimizing enemy footprint, optimizing Roused by Magic and related spells, getting debuffs to hit, and so on.


  24. On 8/24/2018 at 2:07 PM, scrubyandwells said:

    Headed to Siegeworld tomorrow (my first AoS2 event!) for three 2K games on Sat and three at 1K on Sun. 

    Here's the list. Not the best, but wanted to try out some things, especially no one-drop, no Bows, 1x10 TRevs, and Flitterfuries.

    So if I go 0-3, it's all the list's damn fault...of course. ?

    • Spirit of Durthu
      • General
      • Warsinger
      • Ethereal Amulet
    • Drycha Hamadreth
      • Regrowth
      • Colony of Flitterfuries
    • Branchwraith
      • Acorn of the Ages
      • Regrowth
    • Branchwraith
      • Verdant Blessing
    • 20 Dryads
    • 10 Dryads
    • 10 Tree-Revenants
    • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
    • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
    • 3 Kurnoth Swords
    • Free Spirits Battalion

    Re: above, here's some notes on what was learned at Siegeworld last weekend, my first AoS2 event.

    First, it was an enormous amount of fun! Jeff Naumann puts on a wonderful tournament. All my games and opponents were outstanding. It was two events in one: three 2K games Saturday, three 1K games Sunday. I loved the format, although 90 minutes wasn't quite enough for 1K.

    For context, I went this year with an experimental-rather-than-competitive mindset. When you're supposed to be an "expert," it's easy to start thinking you need to "do well" consistently. I'm not a fan of that story (it's rather silly and unhealthy), so forced myself to just throw it out.

    Some experiments included:

    • Taking a toned-down build without much room for summoning additional Dryads (only have 30, which were in the list).
    • Always giving up first turn, if I had fewer drops, and sometimes saying in advance they'll be getting first turn.
    • Not always trying to make optimal choices, e.g., not always going for objectives to force being more on the back foot.
    • Trying out 1x10 Tree-Revenants, skipping one-drop battalions, relying on 6+ Verdant Blessing, etc.

    Some of what was learned: 

    • Time for an updated cheatsheet for AoS2, starting with "Hey dummy, remember you usually don't have to stay on an objective to keep scoring it." My brain kept reverting back to AoS1.
    • As half-expected, 1x10 Tree-Revenants felt like a poor use of 160 points. They were there as a backfield-threat experiment, but they needed to be in combat when no other combats were happening (other combats with higher-priority activations were always happening), since, as always, if you can't activate them first, they'll die to just about anything. At the same time, 1x5 or 2x5 is still a solid bet for Johnny-on-the-spot screening and objective play.
    • In one game, Kurnoth Swords were fighting a combat-build Great Unclean One (GUO), who was on the edge of a Wyldwood. Usually, you want Kurnoth fighting from the comfort of a Wyldwood, giving them a 3+ save + their Tanglethorn Thicket RR. It was proving difficult, though, to keep all 3 in cover and within 1" range to attack the GUO. Kurnoth Scythes, on the other hand, would've managed it with 2" reach.
    • Blight Kings are legitimately terrifying. It was my first time facing a bunch. They were RR'ing hits and wounds and often doing mortal wounds on 6's to hit with Blades of Putrefaction. I knew it was a thing, but experiencing it first hand was horrifying. 
    • Drycha with Flitterfuries was the all-star all weekend. I was also trying her out as a combat piece. Not the best idea, it turned out. Her 4+ to hit and 3+ to wound made her too swingy, especially when combined with the randomness of whether she's mad (Enraged) or sad (Embittered). She won't do much of anything in combat when she's sad, and even when mad, the math isn't favorable, unless she has RRs from somewhere. On the other hand, she was hitting 4-5 units a turn with Flitterfuries. If you can keep her alive for 3 rounds, much less 4 or 5, good lord...her mortal wound output can get crazy (Flitterfuries is especially helpful when facing armies with 5-7-wound heroes, like Nighthaunt). 
    • Ethereal Amulet + Mystic Shield on Spirit of Durthu was a solid combo, as it is with a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon et al. I kept forgetting about Solemn Guardian, though, which could've helped Drycha survive longer, since she was often in combat within 6" of Durthu. With that said, as usual, Durthu was a primary focus for my opponent's mortal wounds, and he largely decided to take the weekend off, as he's wont to do. I'll have to experiment with Ghyrstrike, as well as Ignax's Scales. 
    • The shorter deployment pitch – 9" instead of 12" – on multiple GHB18 scenarios means the pre-deployment Wyldwood can often be placed as a 2-Citadel-Wood-base runway that extends into both deployment zones. So regardless of who chooses deployment sides, you can set up some of your units within 3" of the pre-deployment Wyldwood, such as Dryads or Branchwraiths, in order to trigger their -1 to hit from the start. This also gives you the option to use Acorn of the Ages more aggressively (i.e., up-field), instead of using it as the standard "launchpad" deeper in your deployment zone, since units already deployed within 3" of the pre-deployment Wyldwood can use it as the launchpad. Of course, all of this is situation-dependent.
    • Fighting Alarielle with only 3 Kurnoth Scythes is a terrible idea. Who knew! :) Talon of the Dwindling removed a Kurnoth model every turn.
    • Acorn of the Ages was as valuable as ever, but not having its tag-team partner (Ranu's Lamentiri for a reliable Verdant Blessing) definitely sucked. I kept failing the 6+ cast for Verdant. Having only the pre-deployment Wyldwood + Acorn, especially when you let your opponent go first and they start zoning out the board, certainly can affect Sylvaneth's mobility and resiliency.

    Running out of time...more blathering soon! :) 

    • Like 3
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