SpiritofHokuto
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Posts posted by SpiritofHokuto
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14 hours ago, Rors said:
Yeah I keep getting tempted with cabalist. It's a ridiculously strong su faction ability and it gets even better next season when we can have two heroic actions + the demon prince can also use one - 3 heroic actions seems potent, especially when one of them is buffing all your casters.
The struggle for me is that the spell lore is good but it's a list lacks damage.
That's where Endless Spells come in I'd say. With a fistful of wizards that have a lot of casting attempts you can throw out a fair few and still have casts for your important buffs/debuffs. Also with the sheer amount of casts you can bait out your opponents unbinds, so you can land Spite Tongue Curse more reliably. That together with the new Gnarlspirit Pack's spell mean you can push out a very respectable amount of MW.
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4 hours ago, Bayul said:
If the use case is exterminating chaff, then Infernal Flames and Winds of Chaos should be mentioned as warscroll spells as well. Multiple Endless Spells do add up in points and at a certain point it should be considered to just take (or upgrade to) a potent caster in my opinion.
...and you can screen them with archers like mentioned by @Wraith. I don't know why Karic Acolytes aren't listed by him though. They have a pseudo Ward 6+ with their shields and sufficient melee weapons.Sorc Lord on Manticore is certainly an option, it's a very good horde clearing spell. But against say a 10 man screening unit, you're averaging about 4 MW. Sure it can spike higher, but then so can Gnashing Jaws and that has a built in re-roll when it's first cast. And to be fair, both options suffer vs 5 man cavalry Tokyo drifting screening units.
And with Endless Spells you can just fire and forget them to an extent. If your opponent wants to sacrifice a cast to get rid of them, that's fine. Whereas the Manti Sorc Lord needs to be using Draw on Power to get their warscroll spell off with any reliablity, which means either having them hang way back, or denying your other wizards the bonus.
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Cabalists with a few Endless Spells does seem to be a pretty good option for screen clearing. You don't even have to commit a massive amount of points. Gnashing Jaws, Burning Head and Spite Tongue Curse is plugging 10+ MW on average vs a Mv 5/6 unit. And with the communal Draw on Power and the numerous spell casts Cabalists offers you're likely to be able to push them through standard unbinds.
Like on the AoSCoach video, leaning on the Chaos Lord's retinue ability to prevent sniping and palm off miscasts. And then you've still got a bevvy of buff/debuff spells to throw out if you don't need the damage.
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57 minutes ago, Malakithe said:
I meant them being on par dmg wise with Knights but thats good to know too
The thing to remember is you're going to be comparing 5 Knights to 20 SF for points parity. And 20 SF are capable of getting everyone in melee range as 50% are on 25mm bases. With no buffs other than Idolator Lord giving them Mark of Khorne and them charging, they're averaging 14 MW and a further 10 unsaved wounds vs a 4+ save. Even against a 2+ save that's averaging out to 13 unsaved damage overall.
Now obviously this doesn't take into account ward saves, positioning, potential casualties etc. But it's pretty crazy that a 200 point unit has that much offensive output. And sure SF are not what you'd call durable, but say 3 units only sets you back 600 points and fulfills your battleline requirements (although StD isn't hurting for that).
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10 hours ago, Rors said:
I find that in Australia, $98 dollars for a unit worth 100 points is a hard sell. That said I own 10 (birthday present) and plan on getting 10 more when I find files to print them.
As a unit, they're straight up inferior to serpent fang unless they get the 5+ ward.
Still, they're a screen that can also help against high armor and they're better than fang specifically against 6+ or worse..
I plan on running mine with the sigil as a screen, unless the opponent is rocking something with a 2+ save, then the warriors flip role and become the screen.
As a screen with sigil they just die but then you get to buff a bunch of your units. They also serve as damage dealers when we need mortals and sometimes they can steal an objective, they'll still probably just die though. I've considered making them hunters too as it makes them great against low save troops with damage 3 attacks. Makes it an interesting unit where they really want to hit great armor or terrible armor and suck vs 4+.
In the next season they'll be better than fang when reinforced because they have multiple damage two models in the uni that you can stick in the front. At the moment the weight of attacks from fang with two ranks is better.
The thing is that 50% of the Splintered Fang are on 25mm bases. So it won't be massively hard for them to fight in two ranks after the season changes.
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11 minutes ago, Mutton said:
Bloodstoker ally.
A temporary thing at best. Dollars to donuts it'll change (as well as Bloodstoker) to BoK only in the next Khorne book. So if you have an appropriate proxy go nuts, but don't invest money in it.
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+1 to run and charge are pretty easy to parse, especially for a melee only footslogging unit that has easy access to run + charge and potentially a 3d6 charge.
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To be fair Warriors are inherently pretty tanky, so making them Khorne and using them to bully other "objective holder" units is playing into their strengths in a way.
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52 minutes ago, Frowny said:
Have we seen the furies warscrolls? Also I'd love links to some of the new monsters. I always wanted a furies heavy Std list and now belakors legion might finally actually do that!
Take it with a pinch of salt, but I heard from the leaked playtest that Furies are much the same except getting a 6+ save but having their bravery ditched down to 6.
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3 hours ago, ibel said:
What is if he go in "Legion of the First Prinze" and get in the first Round Mark of Slaanesh so he can run+charge in Turn 1, fight = maybe die and than (with Belakor) he got dropt in Round 2 in the backyard of your Oppion ?!
It's certainly a possibility, it would be an average of 28" threat range assuming a 6 on the run roll and the 3d6 charge buff. It could catch someone unawares, although it's just as likely to be stopped by screening.
And even with Be'Lakor on the battlefield it's still only a ~58% chance of him coming back.
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7 hours ago, ibel said:
Jes u can. You can take him in every Fraktion but he will not profit from the Boni u get. If u take him in a Despoiler List its okay but he wound get the 2 Extra Wounds or a Trait as a Daeomon Prinze.
And He (Belakor) cant use his owne Subfraction Rules.... (for more Infos look at the "Damned Legion" Rules in the S2D BT)
Do u think or better how could we make Eternus work ?! (cool cool Model
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Eternus can just "work" in any sub-faction. Sure he won't get the benefits unless in LotFP, but in sub-factions like HotE or Despoilers that doesn't actually matter. And his extra CP ability is just tied to being near Legionnaires/Furies, which are both decent chaff in their own respective ways. You don't even need to take him with Be'Lakor, although the 7+ revive is very nice.
But you have to wonder if he's worth it over a Lord on Karkadrak, who can get the Mark of your choice/command traits/artefacts, is comparable in hitting power, has an inherent MW save and can give Chariots/Knights Strike First.
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I can see a Despoilers "Monster Mash" with Soul Grinders having some success. 20 Wounds and a potential 3 wound heal is pretty beefy, plus Mark of Khorne giving them 3 extra attacks on the charge or Slaanesh meaning they can run, shoot and charge.
Marauders are possibly the most milquetoast warscroll in the game now. Will have to see what the Darkoath/Cultist units look like, but I'm guessing we won't see much of Marauders except in Ravagers now.
Marauder Horsemen do exactly what you want a light cavalry skirmisher to do and nothing more. Relatively cheap, fast and annoying. Even somewhat resilient to incidental ranged now so I can definitely see a place for them.
Myrmidon is very blah. Not that it's awful, but there's multiple more compelling options in the same points bracket.
Exalted Heroes are weird and again there's more compelling options for not many more points. Cheap Wizards in Cabalists is certainly a thing, especially with Mark of Tzeentch as with Sword and Shield they're tanky enough to be up field and so they'd be able to leverage Warp Reality.
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27 minutes ago, plavski said:
I've seen a lot of people saying that you should be careful about putting too many monsters in your army, and especially too many low tier ones, as you're just giving away victory points if they die. I'm thematically leaning heavy into big tree peoples for my path to glory games, but for matched play, I'd rather kurnoths who won't end up getting smashed and losing me the game just by their existence.
Sylvaneth are quite fortunate in that regard as all their monsters are 10+ wounds and on a 3+ save with all but one of them being heroes to boot.
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53 minutes ago, grimgold said:
I'd be interested in a discord link. I'm getting ready for a path to glory campaign, and would love some ideas.
On related questions, I noticed most of the lists are using chaos lord on demonic mount, but I feel like the karkadrak chaos lord is a stronger option. Am I missing something, or is it for more flexibility in list building? Also with the point increases are our endless spells worth using? I was really a fan of EFDS, but it seems like DFDR is the chosen one if people are taking them at all.
With the new coherency rules seems like flails are the way to go with marauders since it's hard to get a lot of them into combat while staying within coherency. Flails allow them to fight while ranked, which will probably end up being more attacks than the 1 extra they get for sword and board.
With the death of the plague touched battalion seems like there isn't a stand out god. I'm leaning towards Tzeentch because he (it/they/its unknowable majesty) is super defensive, with reroll 1s on saves and a 5+ ignore for spells and endless spells. It also makes the warshrine pretty handy, since it gives +1 to save and ignore spells/endless spells on a 4+. The offensive abilities of the gods seem a bit underwhelming, nurgle is probably the best with +1 to damage on sixes, but you'd probably take him for the -1 to be hit with ranged weapons.
Which leads to another question, is the tzeentch ability to ignore spells and endless spells a ward save? It seems like RAW it can't be because you roll for it after being targeted rather than after receiving damage. If it isn't a ward save, it would stack with things like rune shields which are ward saves, and with things like protection of the dark gods. You could make some warriors into a really hard to shift unit with a warshrine, 3+ save with rerolling ones while ignoring the first point of rend, 4+ to ignore spells, a 6+ ward vs normal damage and a 5+ ward vs mortal wounds. That seems pretty beefy for AoS 3,
I think people go for the Daemonic Mount over the Karkadrak because they have the same Command ability, and realistically the Karkadrak Lord's offensive output isn't that great. And on the defence, 2 wounds and +1 save for +70 points is decent but not amazing.
The issue with EFDS is that the bonus can only be applied to a unit once, and with it's increased price it isn't so much of a consideration. DFDR on the other hand, while a bit worse on the baseline due to only counting other Endless spells for its bonus now is better due to the fact that it's automatically bound and moves in every hero phase.
Axes & Shields are still better for Marauders as they're on 25mm bases which are less than an inch so they can still fight in 2 "ranks". So realistically it's 40 or more attacks vs 30 for flails at best.
Tzeetnch has gone way up as the only save re-roll available, plus as you said the spell ignores can be very useful, and they can not only be stacked with Ward saves/mortal wound shrugs but with similar abilities (Generals aura/Tzeentch Warshrine buff/Varanguard ability) as well. Khorne is still a consideration as well as +1 to wound is hard for non-heroes to get.
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2 hours ago, Sneedlewoods said:
Well I think that's the part where the allegiance says something like "if you play this allegiance you have to take this and that". I don't think this is necessary for Ravagers.
Any other opinions about this phrase?
The one you pick for your General has to be a Ravagers one. All the others can be Ravagers or universal from what I can see.
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1 hour ago, Rakkzul said:
For marauders, I've saw someone using Bloodreavers with Marauder heads. Didn't look bad, but maybe a bit missleading. The ones @Eldarain posted look good too, but I'm reticent to use mantic, since I don't like their material at all
By the way, we opened a STD discord channel. I can post it here if there's interest and doesnt interfere with any forum rules
These are more recent Mantic sculpts and act in the exact same way as GW plastic for the most part. If anything in some ways it's better as the mould lines are much less pronounced so cleaning them up is a breeze.
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2 hours ago, Eldarain said:
Nothing I've heard and guessing their plans is like reading tea leaves lol.
If you're open to third party Mantic has great hard plastic minis I use that look like the Wildlings from GoT
Literally putting some of together right now. A perfect fit for Marauders if you're going for a frozen/tundra theme. Also the fact that they're slightly "chunky" compared to other standard human sculpts means they actually look quite proportional next to Chaos Warriors.
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2 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:
Guys with warshrine can I cast 1 Pray from warscroll qnd 1 from core prayers? Or just one?
Just one.
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1 hour ago, drcrater said:
Yep, that's exactly what I did in my last game, and the damage output of the endless spells is pretty nasty. If you add some movement-affecting spells, like Whispers of Chaos, Realmscourge Rupture and the spell from the cabalists, you can set up a cool BBQ
Moving the Darkfire Daemonrift three times in one round is sweet.
I'm always intrigued as to Cabalist lists, as they're a sub-faction I've always struggled to put together something I'm happy with.
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3 hours ago, Eldarain said:
Damage output in general is a concern for me. It doesn't feel like we have the rend or mortal ability to overpower the defenses of most factions especially with the new generic buffs.
Should we be focusing on high attack reroll based fight again builds to kill em from a thousand cuts?
I think the thousand cuts approach is what's going to win through in general this edition. With every man and his dog having multiple ways to get +1 to saves, the stock of Rend has gone down quite a bit. =>-2 will still do some work, but -1's usefulness just isn't what it used to be. And StD aren't exactly spoilt for choice when it comes to stuff with Rend -2 or greater. Halberd Warriors, Marauders, Ensorcelled Weapon Knights/Varanguard. Just sheer weight of attacks, backed up by being on 2's/3's to hit and wound with re-rolls. Together with resilience that while somewhat less than it was before, is still decent with generally good saves, a decent amount of wards/mortal wound protection and quite a few ways to trivialise Rend. Potential stacking spell ignores as well.
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15 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:
I played two games with a stack of 20 warriors yesterday, the loss of rerolls has ruined there survivability for sure. I usually kept the warriors on the table the entire game previously. I lost them all both games by turn 3. So they are literally useless now cause they still hit like wet noodles.
With things now having easy access to +2 saves there lack of sharp weaponry is just depressing. I sent 48 attacks 3s and 2s at a stone horn yesterday and did 2 damage
It is looking like either Tzeentch marked for the save re-roll of 1 or Undivided for the battleshock immunity is the way to go for Chaos Warriors now. And causing damage has always been an issue for them, best case scenario is halberds with the enemy unit having Curse on them.
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12 minutes ago, Charlo said:
A nice change to give Tzeench some real identity!
Super defence against both regualr attacks and mortal wounds from spells.
It's not even just that, but a straight up roll to ignore the spell entirely. And as they're not saves you can stack them, so a Tzeentch KotET Varanguard unit with Wall of Cursed Iron under the effect of a Warshrine would have a 4+/4+/5+ to completely ignore any spell/endless spell. Should note that it doesn't work against prayers/invocations.
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12 minutes ago, Boar said:
With more ways to get bouns to save I guess it was inevitable, so Mark of Tzenntch boosted?
Kind of? I guess having a blanket +1 to save for it was too powerful?
13 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:I am curious does the chaos warrior unit size and war-shrine ability stack? If so Tzeentch Warriors may become practically unkillable.
Yes and no. You can only get a total of +1 to saves but the extra over that can offset the uncapped negatives rend can do.
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Actually scratch that, MoT still gives re-roll saves of 1.
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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Oh yes, and the MW suffered from rolling a 1 for chanting a prayer via Idolator Lord, and miscasts as well.