PlasticCraic

I can't speak for everyone, but I run the Hag mainly because I like her, rather than her being insanely good. You absolutely could do a list based around Fellwaters and Rockguts, and what's more, it'll probably be more competitive. If you want to play Troggs but you're nervous about the Hag's future, I wouldn't let that be what stops you. Here's an example of something I'd be perfectly happy to take to an event: That feels like a decent 3-2 list to me, and you'd be "in" most games even at a tournament. Plus you'll get those big exciting moments where you're trying to rezz the big blocks.

Agree with most of what you've said but all I would add is that in terms of whether the current Ironjawz range is complete, I'd like to bang the drum for a Megaboss on Gore Grunta. That would give us that mid-range hero who can get around the board and give out Command Abilities (without needing to sink a quarter of your army into it).

Fair enough - it's been an interesting discussion 😁

Can I ask what you mean specifically by overlap? Do you mean in gameplay terms, or something else?

From a gameplay perspective I agree with the comments that they need to be distinguished more from Brutes rather than removed from the army. And also that it's Brutes that should be the ones to have a Warscroll change. Don't forget that Brutes are squeezed out by both Ardboyz and Gore Gruntas: the reason they have ended up having to be the cheapest wounds of the three is that they just do the same thing but slower (i.e. worse). With their profile of 3/3/-1/1 and not much else in terms of Warscroll abilities, they are the most generic combat unit in the game. Ardboyz already have an important role in the army as relatively affordable bodies (as distinct from wounds), so they can screen and cap objectives. They are also a fairly cheap unit (min cost 100 points) that can stand in a Gnawhole or wear a Terrorgheist to the face. Their +2 (really +3) to charge gives them an interesting niche and the extra bravery to hopefully hang around on Objectives gives them an interesting feel on the tabletop as a slightly techy unit that can fight a bit and helps you win games. Given that we already have the same dudes riding pigs, the only role Brutes can offer is to be the slow but devastating combat unit, in which case they need something to hang their hat on. I don't hate the ideas about giving them a 3+ save and making them an anvil, but I would also like to see them become a nutcracker. This army can bounce off elite armour saves and I'd like to see rend -2 (and maybe even rend -3 on the big weapons), or some kind of exploding mortal wounds on 6s, even if it meant the unit had to become more expensive to reflect a truly elite combat unit. Also their Bravery needs to be looked at, 6 is just pathetic. TL:DR in gameplay terms Ardboyz absolutely have their role, it's Brutes that need looking at.

Aesthetically I think they look waaaaaay better with a simple head swap. It's the helmeted heads that make them look a bit dated and goofy: it's no coincidence that the (excellent) Ironskull's Boyz left them behind (3 of the 4 have no helmet, and the 4th is completely different without the horns). I was actually talking about this on Twitter last night and as you can see from Chris's photo in the top right, the unit looks great with spare heads from the Gore Grunta kit: helmet.jfif head.jfif

Hey @Icetea if you're list tailoring adapting to the local meta, I'd maybe take a closer look at a couple of units with really high DPS. Somebody smarter than I could run the numbers, but it's generally Brutes and Big Stabbas in my experience. What I like about Big Stabbas is that they can hit over the top of a shield wall of Savage Orruks with their 3" range. This is important because when the FS fight first, they have to pour all their output into your chaff, then you strike back over the top and hit them hard. You might also be a little bit overcommited on heroes imo. 3 Warchanters might be past the point of diminishing returns. Would you consider dropping the Prophet down to a Wardokk (his anti-horde Warscroll spell won't scare Blight Kings and HGB too much), dropping a Warchanter and putting in 10 Brutes for example? Again probably with the 2" weapons to hit over screens or from corner-charging a unit. And finally, I'd maybe split up the 10 Ardboyz into 2x 5. Those throwaway units are clutch against HGB. What I usually do is charge the 5 in spaced out, then corner charge with my actual hammer unit and set them back a little. The 5x Ardboyz soak up the fights first activation, then you pile in with the proper unit and have a good swing at them. Hope that helps, and let us know how you go!

Good job. I've bought some hobby hessian type stuff to stick on the end of spears, although I fear it'll look awful! Will give it a try and see.

What did you use for the nets?

The thing about Bloodgullets is that the 6" pile in is a great buff in its own right, and the Slaughtermaster's pot is not magic dependent (especially with a Goremand Battalion). So you can buff your units even without relying on magic - although it can be a very nice upside, when you're facing an army that doesn't dominate magic (which is still most of them). I'd say that the Splatter Cleaver and Nice Drop are good enough to make Bloodgullets worth consideration even without the magic buffs.

I personally go with the Megaboss as general so I have access to the Waaagh Command Ability. I hadn't really looked at it from the point of view that it effectively can cost you 2 or 3 CPs though, as an opportunity cost from having Dead Kunnin instead of Right Fist, plus the one actual CP. I guess the other advantage with the MK is having your general up the board (with his 12" Inspiring Presence range) is valuable in its own right, so that's another reason why I would probably still lean that way, but it's an interesting question.

No, but it was at the time. It was only in the most recent GH that they restricted you to only one aftersave. Up until then, you could have a 5++ and 6++ on the RI, and a 6++ 6++ on Ardboyz with shields (and another one with Mystical terrain!). They nerfed that and hiked the points up on both, for the classic double-kicking. That article was written shortly after the book came out, in the roughly 8-month window until GH20 hit. Wouldn't apply now.

Haha thanks dude, I'm not really writing much at the moment though (got a bit burnt out on it, and also on AOS). I'm playing a bit of MCP and writing some guest pieces on that for Goonhammer, but I'll fire up Plastic Craic again at some point.

Yeah I think everything you've listed there is valid...competitive armies, and hard matchups for pure IJ. I think it's fair to say that Big Waaagh has far fewer bad matchups, and that's why I take it to events where I'm aiming to do well. One trick that might help you against Fyreslayers specifically is setting up a unit with good reach (Big Stabbas are ideal) back from your screens. I wrote about it in this article from last year: https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/02/27/summer-smash-tournament-review-big-wins-for-the-big-waaagh/ If you can get on an objective and they have to charge you, it's ideal, but even if not you can charge your screen right into them then just the edge with your hammer unit, so only one or two HGB can hit your hammer unit and everything else can only pile in towards your screening unit.

@Icetea Didn't know you were based over here, are you coming to Vic GT? I'm surprised that damage is what you're struggling with...speed and damage are generally the army's two strengths (with the asterisk that they aren't great at killing "unkillable" stuff, just things with regular / non-broken armour saves). A couple of things I do with this list (and apologies if I'm preaching to the choir here): - You can always just buff up the 3-block of pigs and send that in, if you're facing too many screens to be worth chucking in your big guns - Similarly the 5-block of Ardboyz can often fit in a smaller gap and with +2 to charge natively (+3 in IJ) can bust up something minor with 12x damage 2 attacks - So you can do a mini one-two punch of minimum size units with Warchanter buffs (Mighty D the pigs, teleport the Ardboyz) if you need to start removing screens, but don't want to overcommit - You can also go full Alpha, by teleporting the Brutes or 10 Ardboyz, and Mighty D on both the Maw Krusha and 6 Pigs across the deck, if your opponent relies on getting buffs up. I think this is our best shot vs Seraphon for example - A big one to look out for is Damned Terrain. If I can get Damned I'll take it on the Brutes, teleport them 9" away then move D6" close to the enemy at the end of the phase for a shorter charge (and reroll 1s to Hit) - The other classic is the Hero Phase charge (Mighty D again), run away and retreat in the movement phase, then pile back into combat from 3.1" out in the combat phase (because you completed a charge earlier that turn). Gets you motoring up the board, gets you attacking sequentially (outside of S&B) and gets around anti-charge tech like Fangs of Sotek shoot 'n' retreat BS - Remind your opponent again and again and again that you are neg 1 to be hit. They'll often forget when they switch from shooting to combat, or when they go from the top of Round 1 to the bottom of Round 1, so just drill it home and triple check Generally I reserve the Alpha for special occasions but it does give you an "out" against some of the S-Tier armies that will otherwise just pick you apart. Get up in their grill and get lucky on priority, and you have a fighting chance. Even with neg 1 to hit I personally find survivability to be this army's biggest weakness, I would have thought the pigs with 8 damage 2 attacks each and decent core stats should be doing a bit of work?

Thanks @Icetea! Was a great weekend, a little bit sad that I came up short on Table 1 Round 5 but still a good effort. Best moment was against the netlisty DOK and their teleporting shooty snekks...I gave Pebbles double move and fly, gave him the +1 damage, Hero Phase moved him 20" with Mighty Destroyers, Movement Phase moved him another 20" then smacked the snakes right off the table 😍 (My Heroes were luckily around to do that because it was a diagonal Battleplan, so I could set them up far enough back... I don't think we have much game in that matchup on a lot of missions unfortunately, so it was kinda right place at the right time!). Got another event in a few weeks' time, 70 players this time at Vic GT, assuming it goes ahead (we've gone into a 5-day lockdown here in Victoria after a local outbreak, let's see how that goes). Planning on running pure Ironjawz at that one: Only thing that makes me slightly sad is being 2000 on the nose again which I hate doing, but it is what it is. Always have really interesting games with this army, so I'm just hoping the event goes ahead!

@Ganigumo nailed it!

Sandals are definitely good, but I also quite like Plate of Perfect Protection (Chamon artefact) for ignoring rend -1. It's a pretty big survivability boost, if you're going all-in on "stand on objectives for enough turns". The other one worth thinking about is Glowy Lantern. You can cast Cogs and slow it down, then cast Mystic Shield on a second unit, so you're rerolling all saves on one Mega and saves of 1 on the other. This is a pretty sweet combo, albeit it will cost you one Mancrusher in the list (covered by Ash on AOS Coach): I'd be interested to hear your analysis. Off the top of my head: KO will outdrop you regardless, Seraphon you'll always outdrop, Tzeentch will outdrop you regardless, Fyreslayers will be in that mix, COS I'd have to see what builds are winning but I'd wager you'll outdrop them anyway, Shootcast will outdrop you regardless. So out of the top meta armies on here, I think it's only FS where it will likely matter where you sit in the 4-6 bracket?: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/22/metawatch-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-1-list-building-with-dan-street/

Core Rules p4 covers normal moves (and Running as part of a normal move), hope that helps!

I'd say so, because it's a Normal Move. And you can declare a Run as part of a Normal Move. Obviously the same restrictions to charging / shooting later in the turn will apply as they would to any other situation where you've ran earlier in that turn.

Very good analysis @Ganigumo, I agree with pretty much everything there. I did a write up on it too, with a proposed list: https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/12/17/spiders-baby-white-dwarf-leaks-and-analysis/ I'll make sure I check out your episode of Coach's show too.

Agreed (assuming you're using Weird Un on the first)

Another idea (and it would take a bit of set up) would to move up one of your Stonehorns aggressively, with the others tucked a little further back. At the start of the charge phase, the Stormcast budgies move into the one that's up front to block it from charging. Your second and third Stonehorns would then charge into the budgies and hopefully charge them off the table (you can soften them up with Blood Vultures first). That opens up your first Stonehorn to charge into whatever he wants. If you do this in Bloodgullets, the first two Stonehorns can pile in 6" (even if there's no enemy nearby, because they completed a charge earlier that turn) so with their 2" melee reach, hopefully they'll get some juice too. Key thing here is managing where the budgies can move. You'll need to position your second wave Stonehorns far enough back so that the birds can't tag them all, but close enough up that you can countercharge them (Old Granitetooth Mount Trait and / or the Frostlord CA will help here). There's a risk / reward element that if he hits a big move he might tag multiple Stonehorns, but with one up front and the others either side you should be able to position to have at least one free. Also you'll need to see where the Aetherwings are because the more units he has, the harder it is to charge them all off, and ideally you only want to deal with one unit (6 wounds). If you head in down one flank you probably can't stop him rolling the 2D6 on his other Wings entirely, but you can put him in a position where he's the one praying for miracles and not you. Also 3 Stonehorns is obviously just an example of what to commit forward, you could bring more / different units but you really want the Mortals happening on 4+ as much as possible 😁

Yep that's fair. I also like the option to bring the Hunter down near the Mawpot mid game for some healing if needs be.

Sorry, I meant Breath of Gorkamorka (Bonesplitterz movement spell - used to be called Hand of Gork in the old book!)