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PlasticCraic

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Everything posted by PlasticCraic

  1. You'll have 6 or 9 nettas anyway, so that already takes a bite out of the difference. If you're swamping the enemy in a big blanket, the main ones who won't be in range are the 1" coherency spacers filling the gaps between enemy units. You might get the odd one of them in with the 2" weapons that you wouldn't otherwise. Otherwise you're fighting in 2 ranks anyway. If you are facing -1 to Hit, Stabbas are better (they are hitting on 5s and Spears on 6s, so you are getting double the hits). That equation swings back the other way if you are facing -2 or more to Hit (everything is hitting on 6s anyway at that point, so it's better to have any extra attacks in range). The whole calculation hinges around what percentage you assume you will get in, which obviously varies from each combat to the next. But I think consensus amongst most Gitz players I know is that you can usually get enough Stabbas in to make the 4+ to hit slightly better. But there really isn't very much difference in practice.
  2. Yeah I'd agree with @amysrevenge The Mangler Boss is probably the opportunity for change...I'd sub him out for a heap of Grots personally. Gives you the bodies / screening / board control / late game recycled bodies. Spiders don't lack "Something that can go over there, do some damage then die". Mangler Boss and Spider Riders are broadly similar in that role. I reeeaalllly don't like the Flingas (I'd go Skitterstrand over them personally, if you're keen to do something different), but if you do like them, go for it!
  3. Fair enough, makes sense when you put it like that
  4. Peronally I think it'll be hard to build a competitive army in this vein. They suffer (chronically) from a lack of +1 to cast, for a supposedly magic army. When they first came out, that was OK, because virtually everyone was casting and unbinding from scratch. You'd probably roll the 6+, sometimes you wouldn't and it might get unbound (but not early game, because unbind range was only 18")...it was fun. And your Heroes were cheap enough to throw in a Wardokk or two, so you might hit lucky and get a +1 to cast from there. Now...not so much. You're not finding room for a 100 point wizard with no warscroll spell (!) for a 1 in 3 chance of hitting a +1 to cast, not when all your other support Heroes are so expensive. The only way you can cast reliably is with Maniak Weirdnob's (rerollable) cast from outside of unbind range, which is realistically going on Hand of Gork and Brutal Beast Spirits, and maybe an endless spell that affects the whole board (e.g. Cogs) so it can also be cast from the backboard. It's just fundamentally not very efficient to take pot shots at casting multiple Endless Spells from the frontline, casting from scratch and in unbind range, with overcosted wizards. You could always take Drakkfoot, but that's been incredibly overcosted from Day 1, both in its own right (for the Batallions themselves) and in terms of requiring large numbers of underpowered Morr Boys, with their tiny number of low-quality attacks on large bases. So sorry to be a downer, but I don't think we play this game very well. Gloomspite for example have much more game in this arena - although the new Orruk Wartribes book could change everything. Drakkfoot might be a "Skyport" (free rules instead of a Batallion), and the Morr Boys warscroll might get a bump up...casting with bonuses and surrounded by effective combat units, a proper melee 'n' magic army, sounds great!
  5. So just to catch up, is the consensus that Wanderers will get a full update / book of their own, and not just as part of the Cities of Sigmar book? I'm not sure I agree with that. For example I ran a full Destruction gunline recently with no Savage Orruks at all (albeit some of those units have since been deleted from the game). 60x Gitmob Archers with Sneaky Stabbin, a battery of Spear Chukkas, Skragrott's Hand Cannon, Magma Dragon with its breath attack (2D6 MW with a 34" threat range before Destruction moves), a teleporting Troggoth Hag dropping straight into range for her devastating Vomit attacks. Then you have Thundertusks, Shootas, Squig Gobbas, Rockguts, Fellwaters, Ironblasters, Leadbelchers, Gnoblars with "Sharp Stuff"....Destruction has been probably the second shootingest GA across the course of AOS to date (behind only Order), including (but by no means limited to) the legendary Mooclan and Kunnin Rukk builds. NB I don't necessarily want Wanderers to be part of both Order and Destro myself...just saying that I don't think this is a particularly strong argument against it!
  6. I think that's an overstatement. The very top armies were undernerfed (in my opinion), but some of the armies underneath that level got some help. IJ probably jumped a tier and a half (from a low base), Gloomspite got a lot of help (competitive options like the Webspinner A-Rok got a points drop, and they have more useful generic CAs to spend all those CPs on), and the drops in Khorne were targetted at the stuff that was already the most competitive. I definitely think they could and should have gone significantly further on some very low hanging fruit (Slaanesh summoning is way out whack, Plague Monks are still an absolute joke, WLV still exists). But I also think it's fair to say the field has tightened up a bit too.
  7. I think what the Troggoth Hag brings is the possibility of applying pressure where you need it. Her shooting attack is strong (essentially a battery of 3x Spear Chukkas), and Hand of Gork puts her straight into range for that and her Warscroll Spell, mitigating the issue with short range to a large extent. A lot of armies simply can't handle her, especially with Gryph Feather charm which is an auto-take on her imo. The Batallion is quite clearly overcosted, but I don't think it's fair to dump that on her and consider her a 560 point Monster...I would argue that your one artefact is hers by default, and if you want a second artefact, you're paying 180 points to put Rageblade / Loonskin on your Troggboss making him a 450 point Monster (WTF!). There's a danger of sunk cost fallacy with the Loonboss...there is an argument for just accepting that he's a cool model and a tax we have to take if we want the cool points of running a Troggoth army, there is no obligation to throw good resources after bad by breaking your army to give him an artefact. Just see him as a tax unit who will often whiff, and occasionally do huge spike damage. I do absolutely agree that you need a unit or two of Stabbas / Shootas if you are taking her though, to get those wounds and bodies up. It also synergises quite nicely that you can use your Hand of Gork to teleport the Hag, and run the Stabbas up into the middle of the table at +2 to run. She can then operate completely independently and handle herself nicely, and it creates the classic dilemna for your opponent of having to deal with the threat in their backfield rather than developing the table as they would wish. FWIW I do also like Geminids still, because it's great double turn insurance. If you don't take the Batallion you need to be able to go first or second, and Geminids helps with that. So I would personally rejig the Endless Spells a little to take Nids and then a couple of others (either invest in the Cauldron for her Turn 1, or take a few board control spells, whatever works). I'm not sure you need the Mushroom because Fellwaters for example are already pretty good at crowd control, and your own Grots stand to lose just as much from that. So I do like your latest list, and I think it has some legs. However I personally would put Gryph Feather on the lady, and maybe rejig the 160 points of Endless Spells (possibly even considering more Grots or a second Fungoid for part of that)...Just my opinion though!
  8. Yeah... We really need them to be 2 spell casters with an Ironjawz version of Arachnacauldron 😁
  9. Congrats on a strong showing @heywoah_twitch, looking forward to the show!
  10. Just to throw a spanner in the works, I like the Weird Cabbage myself. I'd been thinking about what that list could look like in this brave new world. I totally get why you would finally want to run Gordrakk in a one-drop (I did it myself almost a year ago at a 2500 point event). So maybe once you've scratched that itch you could give the Weird Cabbage a run out? I drew up a similar list myself, but with Bash Em Lads on the second Weirdnob. The rationale being that if you are keeping multiple units in range of the main Weirdnob, you should also be able to keep some of those units in range of Bash Em Lads. And if the main Weirdnob gets sniped, the secondary Weirdnob can jump up on the BWV and extend the range for that spell.
  11. Yeah it's probably the best 1-2 combo overall Although I do sometimes think it would be funny to give her rend -3 on her "Crushing Bulk" attacks 😁
  12. Yep, I personally think it's ideal for that kind of level.
  13. At what point do you declare which weapon becomes Rageblade? Is it at list building, or deployment? There might be some occassions / matchups where an extra Grip attack is useful. Otherwise, mathematically you are better off with Ghyrstrike: - 5 attacks at 3s and 3s will force 2.22 saves - 4 attacks at 2s and 2s will force 2.78 saves You are still better off with Ghyrstrike if facing neg 1 to hit, and even moreso if you RR 1s to hit.
  14. Oof! Good shout. Check the FAQ for anyone not aware (like I wasn't)...they made it once per game (fair enough), but in so doing, removed the requirement for the resurrection to be done in your Hero phase. Yep, some pretty gamey applications of that spring to mind
  15. I also think some of those objections will evaporate once Greenskinz are fully removed from the game. At that point you're not "upgrading" a model with worse rules to something you would prefer it to be - when it doesn't have rules at all, people don't seem to mind in my experience (rightly or wrongly). They become "classic models" rather than bad units...kinda like you're a rich guy driving a banged up old car, but it's cool because you're rich. Personally, I use Grom the Paunch as a Loonboss, and people love seeing him. Never had a single complaint. You can also blur the lines by doing things like putting unhelmeted heads on the Ardboyz (they look better that way anyway imo) and giving the Greenskinz a bit of armoured bling (Ardboyz shields etc). Maybe even stand them on some cork if you want to give them a little bump in size, but honestly the size differential is minor. Obviously give them a coherent paint scheme (red and black in my case) and basing. At that point you can easily sprinkle some Greenskinz in amongst your Ardboyz and they fit in just fine.
  16. I'd start with a Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok, he's good value for a 2-spell caster and the Warscroll spell will really benefit you. Where you go next will depend what you want to do (pure Spiderfang, or mix in some Grots). But you can't really go wrong with a couple more Venom Clan boxes, if you're able to find them.
  17. Because it's not just points per wound you're looking for in a meat shield - it's minimum cost for the unit (140 points is relatively high to throw away or leave standing around doing nothing) and points per amount of zoning (10 Greenskinz control as much space as 10 Ardboyz despite being half the wounds). So Ardboyz are more efficient overall, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are efficient in the role of dangle bro. Or to put it another way - they are cheap wounds, but not cheap bodies.
  18. To be fair, the finecast Wurggog Prophet is a great little model, and the Wardokk is decent enough. The Maniak Weirdnob is abysmal though. If you want variety in the models, I recommend this guy from Mierce: https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_blg_bnl_cha_050_000 He is doing his little Wardokk dance, or he can also perch nicely on the back of a boar as an alternative Maniak Weirdnob. So he's a great alternative for either. He fits in perfectly with the army and is just the right scale too. There is also this guy who I would imagine to be the right scale, although I've not bought one of these myself (unlike that first one linked above) so I can't really confirm that: https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_blg_bnl_cha_011_000
  19. "Cheap" is a role. 1 wound cheap chaff would potentially be very useful - especially against Slaanesh, but sometimes you just need a bunch of idiots to stand 9" from a board edge. And being smaller and weedier Ardboyz isn't really any different from Skeleton Warriors (smaller and weedier Grave Guard) for example. Just because you have the larger version doesn't preclude the useful Battlefield role of the smaller version. Or at least it doesn't in other GAs.
  20. I know what you mean, but it does seem like double standards with Destruction getting dumped on again. Generic Humans and Dwarves? Here, have a Free Cities Battletome. Generic Skeletons and Zombies? Sure, you can have a home in LON. Generic Orcs and Goblins? Sorry, we don't do "generic".
  21. Grot Skypirates would be the one imo. I'd also like to see an army focussed on human worshippers of Gork and Mork, who daub themselves in green warpaint etc. Although I'd also be happy for that to be a selection of units in the next Orruk Wartribes update (in say 2 or 3 years time) rather than a full army in its own right, since they'll probably be (over)due a new-models release rather than a book-only release in that cycle.
  22. Yeah agreed, it's not really a retcon, I remember that story. Ironjawz were getting bogged down and worn out by Nurgle in a battle in a swamp, and the Bonesplitterz came roaring in with fresh energy, turned the tide of the battle and saved them. They absolutely would, and do, fight side by side.
  23. Cool. I'm sure there are a couple more out there too...Firestorm maybe? I actually wouldn't mind playing a whole event of those one day. Or more realistically, seeing if some mates fancy stringing them together as a kind of campaign.
  24. I was thinking maybe doubling down on the Big Stabbas, because I think Monsters will be very popular: Allegiance: BonesplitterzSpearhead5 x Savage Boarboys (100)- StikkasMain BodyManiak Weirdnob (120)- General- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Hand of Gork or MorkWardokk (100)- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask - Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Brutal Beast Spirits5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)4 x Savage Big Stabbas (200)4 x Savage Big Stabbas (200)Rearguard5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)Total: 1000 / 1000Extra Command Points: 0Wounds: 88
  25. I think the issue is that they have capped units at 2x minimum size, presumably to prevent death stars. But then done nothing whatsoever to limit a big Monster death star. So you would need 2x 4 Big Stabbas to have any chance of taking down a Terrorgheist. Which isn't crazy, because Big Stabbas are at least good against most things, so it's not dead points. What would your ME list look like?
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