Lord Veshnakar

Hopefully you had a fun time regardless! I too have pondered the issue with Spiderfang and I came to the same conclusions as you. I think the Shaman on Arachnarok is a fantastic support piece but ultimately the base spiders even with poison buffs, are just a sub-par unit. They have really large bases and SO few attacks and rend, so you are pretty much begging for mortals. I've been running mostly squig MSU lately. With no benefit from larger units to leadership anymore I don't see much point putting 60 grots/squigs in one basket for Bowsnakes/Sentinels to blast off of the table in 1 turn when I could have 3 units of 20 that take a couple more turns to dispatch that can be all around the board contesting objectives.

Say what you will about our current tier powerlevel wise, but I still love my Gitz and I've had a lot of fun in 3rd. The Marshcrawla Sloggoth + Squigs has been great, getting the bitey boys up to a 3+ 2+ coupled with the mangler loonboss. Have you guys been enjoying any of the other Kruleboyz allies?

I know this is a very unpopular one, but I don't like the gods being represented in game in their current format. Not only do I think most of them ruin the balance in 2k points games, but I also don't think the rules properly reflect their power and its strange to see them at the front of such small armies when they should be leading HUGE war hosts. Especially Nagash, Teclis, Alarielle, and Morathi. I would much prefer the gods to cost upwards of 1500 points, and be designed as collectors pieces and to be used in large apocalypse style games.

Controversial take I am sure, but this happened with Chaos Dwarfs from Forgeworld and it would likely happen with Tomb Kings and Bretonnians as well. The sales just weren't there, and I heard it a thousand times from GW reps. People had been screaming for Chaos Dwarfs forever, but then when Forgeworld had finally released them, and the Tamurkhan book, people in the Chaos Dwarf forum said the price point was prohibitive and were finding any way they could to convert Chaos Dwarfs from Battle for Skull Pass dwarfs, buy third party Mantic Chaos Dwarfs, etc etc. despite the price point was entirely in line with the other armies out at the time. Then they were surprised/flipped out when forge world stopped developing the Chaos Dwarf range. Despite how much you personally love a range does not change that money (and how you spend it with GW) talks. It's why Space Marines, Stormcast, and Aelves/elves get so much support from GW.

I'm still in the camp this isn't really an NDA someone received from GW. Of all the content creators that make GW youtube content, especially the 40k crowd and how many of them aren't a fan of these types of practices or even of GW, we would have at least have seen a handful more people come forward with more legitimate proof. And I have been around since the early days of WHFB 4th/5th edition, but also the beginning of AOS. This is not exactly news to most but there are a LOT of very upset people about the death of WHFB, and they are still just as upset about it. Hell they hated GW long before WHFB was done away with, and I can easily see somebody fabricating something like this motivated by spite alone. I mean look at how much it has gotten people online talking already. Clearly it was worth their effort for what they were hoping to accomplish.

Never underestimate how much someone can hate a company and what lengths they will go to in order to make said company look bad. ESPECIALLY after WHFB was phased out, which lets be honest, already had a fairly troubled fanbase. People have faked being sent C&D a lot in a lot of other fandoms. Especially in situations like Disney+Star Wars, Nintendo, or just GWs fandom in general. I wouldn't at all be surprised. EDIT: That all being said, there was talk in our discord from a guy that was saying the person that edited this document is in his local gaming group and sent it as a joke to scare a local youtuber. I have no clue for sure though.

There are entire 3rd party miniature companies whose livelihood is based on selling products as an alternative to GW's products. It's blatant. It's a large part of why Forgeworld stopped developing Chaos Dwarfs. They aren't creating their own ideas most times. It's stuff that's just close enough to squig hoppers, slann priests etc without directly saying they are these things, but no one could deny the intent. If you are going to make goblin spearmen and goblin archers, do it. But if they have hoods, moons, and squigs and fanatics, and they are calling them hoodie goblins worshipping the nasty moon with bitey flesh balls and spinny death whirlers, it's like you know what you are trying to do here. Could you imagine a company selling a phone that looks very similar in size, display, and functionality to Iphone and then being marketing as "Cheap Iphones for sale" that is a third of the cost of Iphone and sold on ebay? Would anyone not expect Apple to attack those sales? I don't know, this makes sense to me.

The thing is, the alternative is likely very little content whatsoever. So basically white dwarf+warhammer community+paint videos like we have had. It's for the most part bland and uninteresting; glorified advertisements. Usually just stuff to get us hyped about new launches. And it's quite likely that any budget that they put towards that would detract from things like miniatures design and production which is WAY more important to me. I would much prefer animation from the universe, lore videos, free miniature, battle reports, meta talks etc. It will especially be worth it if I can read the lore from some of the old warhammer fantasy books in the "publication vault". I might balk if it was like $15 a month, but $6 a month is like nothing. That's less than most Starbucks drinks. And it's coupled with the app, and I was already paying for Azyr so its even cheaper than $6 for me. This whole anti WH+ movement has the same flavor as people who get upset about paid DLC. You can obviously do what you want with all due respect, and I will too.

If that's true that's less than GW offered me to be a one-man store manager at one of their newest locations by about 10k. I struggle to believe this is true.

Not really interested anymore. I loved WHFB at the time, and it was a great segway, but I am mentally invested into AOS. And knowing the WHFB world ends kind of kills a lot of the narrative drive for me. Plus I love my dwarfs on dragons and flying ships just fine.

While not traditionally dragons, Magmadroths are one of my favorites in Age of Sigmar. I love a traditional style Salamander dragon without wings. I just wish the Gigadroths talked about in the Sons of Behemat book were a part of the range. 😲

Since you have the army already, why not try playing a little bit with OBR rather than just speculating. Not trying to be combative, just a thought.

It was in the next issue of what dwarf as well, not the one for February (that was two days away at the time I posted on Jan 30th) but the March one. I just can't seem to put my hands on that 2017 white dwarf, but it's in there. And these rules were used at a major tournament and then rolled into GHB 2.0 with some minute changes. All I am saying is that that may not be preaching it quite as much that they are listening, but they are listening. Especially if you get the community for that army involved and create a collective idea, rather than just "here's what I think ___ army's points should look like based on my games with my two friends". To your point though there is a bit more radio silence lately in regards to their willingness to accept feedback though. I do still think they are, but I just don't think they are advertising it as much so maybe that's a large part of the disconnect. For example the last KO FAQ that came out, I emailed GW about the status on it and they flat out told me that hadn't received any questions yet so likely weren't even going to roll and FAQ out. The KO group got our community involved and they had 10+ questions in there answered by the end of the week. So yeah maybe they just need to be more open that they are in fact taking feedback. But even when I sent up the Fyreslayer changes, they weren't advertising that they were receptive to feedback. Right now I know they use a lot of internal playtesters in the tournament scene like Russ Veal the Facehammer team etc.

So they did tell me that they got my points to the design team. I had that email but it's long gone at this point. Kevin Chin, member of the Fyreslayer group and the artist responsible for a lot of the Fyreslayer artwork including the badass one of Grimnir vs Vulcatrix, even reached out to me and said he was thrilled about it after the fact. You can see in the attached images where/when I posted on the Fyreslayers facebook group about the points changes on 1/28/2017. This link below was the next Warhammer Community post that came out also linked below. Of all of the armies that had points in AOS that had points out of whack you are saying its coincidence that the very next community post that came out had the adjustments for Fyreslayers in there identical to what we proposed almost two weeks later? The same thing happened with the Druchii.net revision for the Dark Elves' points. First Post I made https://ibb.co/FzSd01H Second Post I made https://ibb.co/D14Sh5b https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/07/the-generals-handbook-ii-wip-points-sneak-peek/

I am going to say something that is quite likely very controversial here but I think GW in fact are listening. I'll tell you a little story so bear with me. Back when the Fireslayer's points first came around during the beginnings of AOS they weren't exactly unplayable, but they were absolutely an afterthought competitively and most games were an uphill battle against anything remotely hard. There was a lot of internal balance that needed to occur within the fyrelayers battletome's points. I had noticed that within the Fyreslayers community that there was a lot of complaints about the points but never a lot of effort to provide solutions for what to do about it. Back when I played Dark Elves in 6th edition, they were considered absolute bottom of the pile, and I was a member of the Druchii.net team that put forth the changes to GW that got the points cost revision for the Dark Elves back in 6th Edition of WHFB, and they listened. So I had an idea. I would go through the points for Fyreslayers and start playing around with changing the points to be more appropriate for what I felt was more internally balanced, to promote a little more choice and list variety. I internally playtested it in my group of 8 friends that I regularly played with. Well after around 40 or so games I refined it even further and posted my results to the Fyreslayers group and asking for feedback, and I got a TON. After the community reached a consensus, I wrote up a small few words and sent it to GW via their community email. It was maybe the VERY NEXT white dwarf and they had posted the points revision for Fyreslayers. It was quite literally that simple. So long story short, I absolutely do think GW is listening. I think a large part of the problem though is that people love to complain and harp on the designers without putting forth ANY sort of collected solution to fix the problem. To make them the big bad money hungry corporate industry that destroyed WHFB. People will put a considerable amount of time into complaining about how and army has been destroyed by these newest GHB points changes, but will put ZERO effort into providing a solution as a community for what they feel is more appropriate. And I know the typical response, because I faced it during the playtesting for the Dark Elves and Fyreslayers. "Its not my job to write the rules, I pay for a product" etc etc. And that's all well and good. But I don't feel it's right to paint this narrative that GW isn't listening. "Hedonites are so underpowered now, fix HoS GW! I'm shelving my army!" isn't any sort of solution though. We all have forum and facebook community groups for the armies we play. If we more regularly got together and provided solutions I think you and many others would be pleasantly surprised.

What if Broken Realms is paving the way for doing away with the Grand Alliances? Belakor tearing apart Chaos in Belakor fashion, Morathi breaking the already strained alliances of Order, Mannfred/Neferata taking power when Nagash is weakened due to a showdown with Teclis, and Destruction dissolving with the arrival of Kragnos.

Firstly, Vince is NOTORIOUS for actually hating Fyreslayers aesthetically. To the point it was almost a meme. So a lot of his viewer base shares the view because they hold his opinion in high regard, so take that poll with some HEAVY bias. Secondly a lot of people on this thread seem to have the background on the Fyreslayers VERY wrong. The new book also did a lot more to flesh them out too. To call them just mercenaries would be a stretch, greed has zero influence over them. That is only a means to an end to get Ur-Gold, and it’s not out of desire for wealth. They are the lost children of a fallen god. They seek out Ur-Gold because these are the pieces of their fallen god that coalesced with Vulcatrix in their final battle and was shattered across the realms . Often times they will pursue work just for a single coin of Ur-Gold sniffed out by a Runemaster in a chest full of gold. The rest of the gold would typically be outright discarded as it’s of zero worth to them. When the Ur-gold is formed into a rune it is then hammered into their flesh as a part of a coming of age ceremony (and again over time as the runes lose power) and the moment this occurs they are given a vision of Grimnir in his final moments, FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE. They legitimately become Grimnir, if only for a moment, and a portion of his strength is imparted to them. The Runesmiters and Runemasters that oversee these ceremonies have to practice caution though not to impart too many runes, as these Duardin fervently love their god, and some Fyreslayers, namely the Grimwrath Berserkers, are duardin that become so addicted to these visions and power, that they take to hammering the runes into themselves and even go so far as to killing their own brothers and prying the runes from their dead flesh for themselves to use, and get exiled where they will continue to seek out ur-gold to feed their addiction.They practically ripple with power and are legitimately insane, most thinking they are actually Grimnir himself. And because the ur-gold is a melding of Grimnir and Vulcatrix they are also naturally and almost symbiotically attuned to the Magmadroths and the realm of Aqshy itself, able to manipulate fire/magma to some degree, especially the Zharrgrim priesthood, which is vaguely hinted at as being a cult of Vulcatrix, especially in some particular lodges like Lofnir. I’ll agree though, the range needs more love. There is so much opportunity to broaden the shared Salamander+Duardin aesthetic which IMO is what they should focus on. Packs of young Magmadroths goaded into battle, chariots pulled by adolescent Magmadroths, some type of medium Magmadroth cavalry, Gigadroths with a howdah or even just unmounted (these were described in the Sons of Behemat books and are essentially colossal Magmadroths), and Magma elementals summoned via the Zharrgrim priesthood. They could even add Vulcatrix cultists. All of this has foothold in the lore already and it was a real missed opportunity that the range is as small as it is because there is so much flavor and potential there. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

Losing empowered spells is a pretty big blow. I know it seems weird but losing the COS rules for the army kind of put the nail in the coffin of me wanting to give it a whirl. I guess I’ll keep playing Anvilgard until they tell me I can’t anymore.

It is fake. It came from the 1d4chan article. I talked to the guy who wrote it and he said “I naturally assumed it from the picture we were given on him”. He absolutely did not fuse with Seraphon though, I have all of the end time books including end times Khaine. It legitimately did not happen.

Are we certain they lose the empowered spells ability? If so I don’t think I’ll be going for Har Kuron and favor anvilgard or regular DOK instead

I’m looking to dive back into my Daughters of Khaine after a bit of a tabletop hiatus. I've always disliked how they were the “top tier” army out there because a lot of people locally would always hem and haw about playing against them, regardless of what I used. Has this been mitigated at all lately by the Fyreslayers/Slannesh/Bone boys, or are DOK still leading the pack? IE do most people still consider them overpowered?

Are DOK really still cleaning house since GHB. I know the changes didn't do much to effect the issue of Hags+Witch Aelves and such but I have been playing my KO so I have been out of things with them. I should probably take them out of the cabinet for a bit to see how it is.

Really interesting numbers so far! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to participate!

So in my personal opinion, playing any army defensively in Age of Sigmar is a mistake. This is a game that is all about movement and taking objectives. On the other hand if he is more talking about an army that can take a beating and still keep going I am going to say either Maggotkin of Nurgle, Stormcast, or Legions of Nagash. All have the durability or replenishment to accomplish what I think they might be looking for.

I wasn't taking you totally seriously. 😉 And I actually did the same! I began my foray into WHFB in 1995 (late 4th edition I believe) with Night Goblins. I very rarely took anything more than just Night Goblins+fanatics, Squigs, Netters/Clubbers, Trolls, and the occasional giant, so the Gloomspite release was pretty huge deal/nostalgia trip for me. My first miniatures were the metal squigs + squig herder and the old metal river trolls. Loved them so much! Later in 6th moved to Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarfs and bounced back and forth between the three until the AOS drop where I went to Moonclan, Fyreslayers, and Daughters (prodominately Fyreslayers/Moonclan though). And I'll admit I used to be a bit of a "hobby hipster" in that I always gravitated towards the lesser played armies. Beyond love of the aesthetics its partially what drew me to Dark Elves in 6th edition since no one played them hardly and everyone said they were trash. I was actually on the team at Druchii.net working on the revision back when a lot of us had to develop strategies like MSU/MSE etc to have any hope of success with the army. But yeah, playing unpopular armies is a bit rough. It ended up biting me in the rear for the reasons you mention; the most popular armies get the most attention, and armies like Chaos Dwarfs/Tomb Kings go by the wayside, so I learned my lesson! Also to keep it on topic, I forgot to mention in the title, I currently collect Daughters of Khaine, Gloomspite, and Fyreslayers, DOK are shelved until they are a little better balanced so people don't hate me before I even put my army down, and so I dance between Gloomspite and Fyreslayers now.