Requizen

To that point, do people think it would be truly game-breaking if SCE went full Space Marines and got +1 to existing saves across the board, making it mostly 3+ and Leaders 2+? Perhaps with the removal of Staunch, as that would just be kinda silly.

While that's a valid concern, you can only buff a very elite army before it breaks, at least in my experience. Elite has the downside of being very weak to individual losses, but if you fix them and make them too durable AND as killy as they currently are, you're creating a whole new set of issues. I wonder if just releasing a single cheap body unit (or reducing one unit to make it better at being a horde) might help alleviate that, without making the whole army too cheap.

Topic of discussion: Do you think SCE issues can be fixed through points? Sure, a new Battletome could give us new abilities, perhaps summoning, or shrug saves, or new MW output abilities - but we already have a good amount of tools between Scions of the Storm, Subfactions (counting Gavriel as part of Hammers), Aetherwing countercharges, at least one super good Prayer, and a very reasonable Endless Spell. Rather than reprinting a whole book and changing the way the army works (again), throwing some 20% price drops across the board (or more for Warrior Chamber) could make the army quite competitive again.

Happy new year! I've committed to painting and playing this at an event at the end of the month - engage crazy hobby time: Clan: Icebone Wurrgog Prophet - General, Master of the Weird, Brutal Beast Spirits Maniak Weirdnob - Breath of Gorkamorka, Mork's Boney Bitz Wardokk - Kunnin Beast Spirits Savage Big Boss - Kattanak Pelt Savage Orruks x30 - Spears Savage Orruks x30 - Spears Savage Orruk Arrowboyz x30 Rogue Idol Balewind Vortex Brutal Rukk (2x Boyz and Boss) 2000/2000 The amount of units is a lot smaller than I'm used to (usually play MSU Stormcast), but it's a lot of bodies. 6 drops is nice too, won't beat everything but will win a lot of deployments. I'm not sure how hyper-competitive it is (or honestly if Bonesplitterz actually have a hyper-competitive build), but it should be fairly strong and fun.

Depends on what you're facing, I suppose. I've played a lot of games with them and often even with 30" off the bat, a good opponent is going to deploy important things out of range, out of LoS, or off the board to prevent that sort of thing. With defensive passive buffs and artifacts, even if you could get in range it was far from a guaranteed shot. The one volley early on is a change, for sure, but it doesn't fundamentally break the list. It's all the range you need when objective capturing is 6" or 3" and objectives are in the center of the map or within 24" of one another. If your opponent hangs back all game and doesn't walk up to contest your Libs/Evos/other support, you win the game.

How is that any different from Scions at that point? They still can shoot twice. They simply might not be able to do it guaranteed on turn 1, which was always the case against a canny opponent who wouldn't deploy important units within 30" of your line, or used terrain, or used reserve shenanigans - which then forced you to consider burning that CP on a low-priority target and perhaps put your Longstrikes in a bad position. Translocation still works... 66% of the time, anyways. Every turn after Turn 1 you'll have something to shoot, since 24" is still quite a good range in AoS and objectives need to be taken. This change is a nerf for sure, but it's only a nerf in that you won't be able to guarantee instagib a unit of choice before the opponent goes. Instead, now it's a chance to instagib, or otherwise allows them to get a turn un-shot. Overall it's still likely one of the top lists for SCE, given how shooting is really our only way to keep up with a lot of things.

Stardrake at 500 is much better. It's still pillowfisted and dice-y, but that's a quite affordable fast anvil, especially with the drops to Dracoths in GHB19 and Dracolines now, there's potentially to run a fast Stardrake + mounted hitting unit type setup. Stardrake + Fulmis + Skink allies was nearly a thing in 2018, though admittedly that was before the acceleration of power level with FEC, Slaanesh, Skaven, etc. I'd like to test it out and see what happens. I don't think it's broken or anything, but it might be at least viable.

If they go heavily on bodies with Bonereapers, a Balewind Wurrgog Prophet with casting bonuses and Fists of Gork is pretty good at wiping blobs off. If you really want to push it, with +1 Trait/Artifact, Rogue Idol, and Wardokk dance, you can get +4 to cast, which gets it to cast automatically and the the 4+ setup to go off on a 6+. Not bad at halving a blob of single wound models.

Meh, to me it only slates Drakkfoot as a situational "hate" pick. No clan, Icebone, and Bonegrinz are all still very reasonable.

That's the big change. A nerf to baseline durability but now can be affected by Allegiance Abilities (all of which are good) and spells. The Monstrous Arcanum file in the Downloads section has the updated Warscroll and still lists it at 400, so it likely will stay those points.

IMO Morboys are only better in situations where you're running small units, where the better save doesn't matter too much and they don't need the 2" reach of Spears. Otherwise, Spear Orruks are better. From the looks of it, Boarboyz and Maniaks are about the same in small units, but Maniaks getting the extra attack in large units is pretty worthwhile. I run my small 5 man units as Boarboyz for the slightly cheaper price (and because I have the models), but I think overall they're fairly similar at 5. Battalions seem hit or miss. I think there's some good tricks in Brutal Rukk, but personally I'm aiming for the "Boys over Toys" philosophy. I think the half damage/4+MW save would have been way too good in conjunction with the rules from any of the three allegiances, so it makes sense why he'd see a slight nerf there. Still, a 4+/5+++/6+++ in Bonesplitterz already is quite good. With Kunnin Beast Spirits and Glyphdokk dance, you can get him to a 2+ pretty easily, and always have Grimdokk dance for a bit of healing. He's a really solid missile to throw out. Hit him with Brutal Beast Spirits and Breath of Gorkamorka, and he's flying across the table smashing things Turn 1, even if he doesn't necessarily survive as long. Or use him as a serious counter-charge deterrent.

For traits, the CP generators are very good, as is the Tireless Trackers buff and the +1 Casting. For artifacts, it's really (imo) only the +1 cast and the 4+ Paint buffs that are the best, but remember you can also take Realm Artifacts such as Gryph-Feather Charm, Ragged Cloak, etc - many of which are far and beyond better than Burning Tattooz.

Right, but that has little to do with Drakkfoot, which is what I thought you were commenting on. I have been eyeing up Balewind Vortex. It's a nice boost to buff ranges and Fists if you're playing someone with a horde. I don't really rate Arrowboys in Kunnin Rukk at the moment. The smaller unit sizes means they're not great buff targets, and if you go too heavy on Arrowboys, fast melee armies will take you apart. Also, Savage Attack doesn't do anything for Arrows, it only affects the combat phase, the only exploding attacks you get on ranged attacks is Bone Spirit.

In what way? I doubt many of the Battalions will be highly competitive, so you won't get an extra Artifact, and while Fireball is better than Arcane Bolt, it's not particularly that great and most of our Wizards will be casting the fantastic spells from our lore or their Warscrolls.

Yeah I think as has been said, it's going to be meta dependent. The armies that really lean on shrug saves are Nurgle, DoK, Phoenix Guard Cities (probably Phoenicum), Death, Fyreslayers, and Skaven if they're Monster heavy. All of those are relatively prevalent in the game, so there's a good chance that Drakkfoot will be a counter-meta build. On the other hand, Slaanesh, Khorne, Stormcast, Gitz, Sylvaneth, Deepkin, etc don't have any at all, or have it only in limited amounts. It's a tricky thing, because the Command Ability, "Trait", and Artifact for Drakkfoot are all relatively terrible, so if you're not getting mileage out of the shrug ignoring it can feel like a waste.

Amazing catch, I hadn't even thought of that. That makes Warcry even more desirable, as if it wasn't enough already. Another interesting thing to note about Icebone: The rule says "An Icebone Maniak Weirdnob General must have this command trait instead...", but there's no such distinction for other generals, nor a distinction that says you have to use a Maniak Weirdnob as your general. So I ran a Prophet as my General with Master of the Weird and just had the Maniak Weirdnob there. Similarly, the Bonegrinz Artifact must be given to the first Savage Big Boss to receive an Artifact... but you can just give a regular Artifact to any other Hero and not worry about it. This makes both of those subfactions very lucrative, as they only have half the usual downsides that subfactions normally come with. Had a game yesterday against Seraphon. I ran: Icebone Wurrgog Prophet (Master of the Weird) - Brutal Beast Spirits Maniak Weirdnob (Kattanak Pelt) - Kunnin Beast Spirits Savage Big Boss Wardokk - Brutal Beast Spirits Wardokk - Gorkamorka's Breath 30x Savage Orruks (Spears) 30x Arrowboyz 10x Maniak Boarboyz 5x Boarboyz 5x Boarboyz 4x Savage Big Stabbas 1 Command Point 1990/2000 My opponent wasn't the best player in the game, and on Starstrike 2 of the 3 comet landings were right on top of my blobs, so it's not super indicative, but I did learn some things: -Big Stabbas are the truth. Run + Charge baseline turns them from "slow, but deadly" to "haha time to fly up and murder everything". -Savage Orruks do serious damage now. I was so used to them just being chump chaff with only 1 attack each, but at 30 with some buffs they just drown anything not on a high save in dice. Add in Icebone for extra stabbin. -Arrowboyz with buffs = great, Arrowboyz without buffs = fine. Same as before, really, but without old Kunnin Rukk to make them crazy double tap, when to put buffs on them and when to just let them be more chip damage is a much more interesting question. -Between lower casting values, Weirddokk dance, Master of the Weird, and Arcane Terrain, our spells are way, way more reliable overall. Which is good, because they force multiply by a lot. -I didn't utilize Tireless Trackers that much, but after playing with it a bit I can see how you could make a pretty scary Alpha Strike army with it. Overall the army feels much better than pre-Warclans. Streamlining things like dice rolls, adding quality of life buffs, and just relative increases across the board makes everything feel much better to play.

One thing to note about Freeze and Run. It's not just the retreat move - it's another move in your turn. If you charge a small unit and run away from it, Boars can reach basically anywhere on the board after a move + charge + retreat in a single turn, making stealing objectives a breeze.

So, while Breath of Gorkamorka, Brutal Beast Spirits, and Kunnin Beast Spirits are all quite powerful, I'm wondering if it's worth taking Gorkamorka's Warcry on a wizard. Forcing something to fight last is quite powerful, especially if we cannonball all our dudes into the target. Cast on a 7 is pretty bad, though there's a Trait and Artifact to boost it (plus Rogue Idol as well).

This is how I personally interpret it. As a developer, flags like this happen a lot - "do this if something didn't happen" "But that part of the code hasn't run yet!" "So it didn't happen". Very simple boolean logic, though we are still as of yet unsure on intent. I will play it however the TO rules it. I have had TOs interpret it both ways, and at events where GW was specifically present, they basically said "That's a really good question, do what the Judge tells you", which to me sound like they don't know and potentially will FAQ it.

I can confirm that units of Big Stabbas can still be up to 8, per the earlier discussion.

Well, Underworlds is not a CCG, because it doesn't have random booster packs. But that's a bit of semantics on my part The more casual folks don't care. If you're casual, don't go to big events, and just get it for game night - play Relic. Or Open. Or ignore it. The rotation is for competitive play and tournaments. People who play competitively in any sense of the word should have seen this coming. Not only is it common practice with any sort of game of this type (MTG, Netrunner, Pokemon, Hearthstone, etc), but if you had never heard of those things, a large majority of people on podcasts and at events have been discussing it since the end of Shadespire. And honestly, pretty much every competitive person I've seen discussing it is excited, as no one wanted to see Ready For Action in every deck for the rest of time. The format system lets you use your existing cards in Relic if you want, while keeping the competition fresh.

One of the Wardokk's dances is 3+ for +1 to save

Arrowboys in a Kunnin Rukk are no longer the massive threat they once were, but both KRukk Arrows and baseline 30 Arrows will both be viable and probably quite common, as shooting is still very good. 30 Arrowboys with Bone Spirit and Brutal Beast Spirits are getting 90 shots. Hit 45 times, 15 of those are exploding into 2 hits, so 60 wound rolls, 30 wounds at a range, 5 of which are Rend-1 if you're in Icebone. That's not killing a Stardrake in one go, sure, but it will cripple or kill many units and light monsters, making them open to follow up with Savage Orruks and Big Stabbas. I think a 30 block of Savage Orruks is pretty much going to be in every army. Relatively tough, fairly cheap, and now pretty good damage output makes them a very strong core unit.

TBH though Gordrakk is 540 points, so once you add in 2 Chanters you're at 760 and that becomes a pretty tight army. It's worth noting though that the CA (if transcribed in the other thread correctly) is really good for Bonesplitterz. You get 1 Waaagh point for every 10 models within 18" of the caster, so if you're running 30 Savage Orruks, 30 Arrowboys, and 10 Maniaks like I'm planning, that's 1 CP for 7+ Waaagh Points on Turn 1 (assuming you haven't lost any yet). Not a bad boost, 7 + Wurgog/Wardokks + d6 can add up quick. Still, I think I like the guaranteed turn 1 power of Bonesplitterz more. Maybe if I want to buy Gordrakk at some point, but not yet.

I'm holding off a bit to see if how the Rogue Idol is pointed and if he changes too much. Just built mine and want to see how to use him. I'm really feeling Icebone with 30 Arrowboyz, 30 Savage Orruks, 10 Morboyz. My meta does have enough Nurgle to warrant Drakkfoot, but tbh I feel there's enough weight of dice already and it doesn't do much against something like Blightcyst, even with the Harbinger. Maybe if we had any DoK players, I'd feel different.