Rogue Explorator

This looks like a real flexible approach to allegiance, I really like this. It will be interesting to see how this applies to other armies, factions and Grand Alliances, that don't have the clear connection of monogod lists, but it looks perfect for Chaos. I really like that the Tzaangor Shamans spell works in matched play. You wouldn't want to waste reserve points on a Tzaangor or two, but it allows you to replenish a unit a bit. All I need now is a release date and money in my account come preorder day.

I actually think, in terms of Warscrolls included, this will be the opposite of an Umbrella Battletome. Meaning, while there may be Spells/Allegiance/Battallions that covers a wider number of options, the actual Warscrolls would only cover the new releases (and propably the Silver Tower Heroes), without changing any Allegiances. I think this, because: 1) I do not believe this isn't all Tzeentch Mortals get, as there don't seem to be any mortals of Champion, Lord or Warrior rank 2) GW does not release rules without miniatures 3) This is already a pretty big release, without a wave of daemons So what I think this is, is the first Battletome including units not named after the faction it covers. This isn't entirely new, as there are already Battletome:Chaos Dreadhold and Battletome:Dominions of Chaos, proving that Battletomes are more game expansions and not straight up traditional armybooks. This would allow GW to expand factions without having to rerelease/reworking the self-titled battletome. So, if, for example, GW where to release Khorgor and Bloodbound/Khorne allegiance rules, they could bring out a "Battletome:Hordes of Khorne", without including the Fluff and Rules for the existing Bloodbound line. In previous GW gamelines that wouldn't have been possible, since unit rules and pointcosts need the occassional overhaul. But with updatable online warscolls and points online and in the GHB, a Battletome becomes mostly about Fluff, which can effectively remain valid indefinitely. Of course, we are bound to get more definite answers soon, if not today on the livestream, so I am fully prepared to look foolish when my theory proves utterly wrong

I would be really surprised if not all Chaos Gods had some sort of priest. If Khorne has them, the others can get in on the priest business as well. Doesn't mean the unit needs prayers, not all priests have them. And some could well be mages as well, I think there already is a skink who is both mage and priest.

They have been very unpredictable with faction sizes. Going in, Stormcast, Bloodbound and Seraphon where very big factions, with Stormcast further expanding through Extremis Chamber, and Bloodbound with Slaves to Darkness being so easy to bring in. But then there came the small to tiny Fyreslayers, Everchosen and Ironjaws. Meanwhile Sylvaneth where midling. And then, to top it of, came the no new model Battletomes, widening small to tiny factions into slightly bigger factions. Meanwhile there has been a lot of hopping around between making moves that make Grand Alliance armies a real proposition and those that pretty much shut them down. It will be really interesting to see where this Battletome shifts things, but I wouldn't expect it to be a set-in-stone precedent for further developements any more than previous battletomes have been.

I find the name interesting. Though it makes sense, considering there seem to be no real Champions of Chaos in the release.

The Guy is a bit booring. But the parrot-vulture, I like very much. I'm not sure if it was Atia or one of the other reliable Rumormongers, but there was an offhand comment that there would be AoS Tzeentch waves in 2017. One is propably blue and brimstone horrors along LoC, but I hope there will also be something along the lines of "Master Arcanites" as there is no mini in that release I'd pin as faction leader akin to Mighty Lords of Khorne and the Deathbringers. They have a surprising amount of synergy, but Rotbringers are "Nurgle Mortals" Allegiance, so if you bring daemons, you don't get battleline Blightkings. Its a bit of a wash, really.

Looks like Tzaangor are going to be a big part of the coming release, which makes me absolutely happy. Theres a Mage on disk, regular Tzaangor, what looks like an elite unit on Disk and either a trio of characters or another unit of supersized elite Tzaangor in the background of the third picture. I still don't particularly like the Kairic Akolytes though, really hope there are some other, more Chaos Warrior like, mortals along for the ride, at least among the characters. Otherwhise I may have to do some heavy converting if I want my Slaves to Darkness and Arcanites to look like a cohesive force. Or I'll just go pure Tzaangor And Damn, as an Admech fan I can't help but say, I thought the Magus Dominus was awesome...

Nor any new kits. To be honest, I immensly enjoyed the Flesheater Courts, Bonsplittaz and Beastclaw Battletomes Fluff and Presentation wise, but I honestly hope GW never goes the "kitbash an entire faction from just two or three actual boxes" approach ever again. There is something fundamental about that approach, that I found abhorrent, though I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Flesh Eater Courts sets another interesting precedent though. The battletome includes both the Zombiedragon and Terrorgeist without rider, who composed their own faction in the GA:Death book. An example of one faction absorbing another, minor one.

Just thinking, if Steamhead Duradin really are a thing and coming soon, that should give us a very good idea of what is in Store for the current Aelven Factions. Whatever then happens to Dispossessed and the Duradin part of Ironweld Arsenal should set a pretty good precedent. I can see a few scenarios possible there: -Steamhead are entirely composed of new kits, Ironweld and Dispossessed stay as they are -Steamhead are entirely composed of new kits, Duradin Ironweld and Dispossessed go Out Of Production and move to Legacy -Steamhead are a mix of old and new kits, Duradin Ironweld and Dispossessed units not included in the Battletome go OOP and move to Legacy -Steamhead are a mix of old and new kits, Ironweld and Dispossessed are diminished, but still hold any leftover units -Steamhead are a mix of old and new kits, but Ironweld and Dispossessed stay exactly as they are, with some units pulling double duty -Any of the above scenarios where Dispossessed and Ironweld stay, but there is a big Wave of moving the units of multiple factions to OOP, including Dispossessed and Ironweld, at a later date. My own believe is that the third scenario will hold true, as there are some not so old steampunkish Duradin kits that seem appropiate (Irondrakes, Gyrocopters/bomber, Cogsmith) and I personally think there are many factions that are supposed to be only temporary. But any of the above is thinkable. Another thing I've thought is, that Malerion and Morathi being on good terms at the time of their last mention (which was timed to the Age of Myth iirc), doesn't mean they would be the same faction or even Grand Alliance when they make a proper appearance. Uglu being the warground of two different factions would propably be more interesting than it just being Malerions personal playground.

I think the mist has more to do with the properties of the realm of Ulglu akin to the old Lore, meaning misty, grey and illusionary, rather than pitch black darkness. I think it serves us well, that the Mortal Realms are defined by the symbols and properties of the old Lores of Magic. Like Chamon not just being a realm of Metal, but also of alchemical transmutation and Fyreslayers carrying around a lot of keys, which where a minor Symbol of the Lore of Fire. Many newer, CaD produced miniatures have magical swirls of some kind, so I don't really see it as a death related hint. The elements of the design with the strongest connection to another faction are the bird skull and armor trims. The first suggests a Tzeentch connection, the second is commonly found on Chaos Mortals. That would point at a connection to Chaos, though not strongly enough to suggest Allegiance. There are also the Moon designs, which aren't rare in elves, but where really more of a High Elf Symbol. I think it is a reference to Lileath, but my High Elf Lore is very weak and I found nothing on various wikis, though I seem to remember that the meaning of every common elven Symbol was explained at some point. Any old Loremasters of Hoeth around who know more? Purple doesn't really particularly point at Death. I see it more as a continuity with previous evil elf lines, as purple has been strongly used on most of the old dark elf studio armies (and some Dark Eldar) and is likely still a favorite of Morathi and Malerion. Really, right now both the Mistweaver Saih and Tenebrael Shard are grouped as Order and I think that is where Shadowkin will remain. I think when your source says that you are close, that is in there being some rumor engine posts pointing at a dark magic using, Malerion and Malekith led Shadowkin faction at odds with the other factions of Order. That faction being in GA:Death, I think is where you miss.

I think the pattern on the left looks a fair bit old world dark elf. I wouldn't be surprised to see Shadowkin close on the heel of Arcanites, being the second faction teased/previewed in Silver Tower and all.

Oh yes, far from competitive. However, rather fleshed out in the available diversity of units. Viable in a narrative sense, I am tempted to say.

You know, supposed Spireguard get their points fixed, this might make Swifthawk Agents, before a punch line of superflous factions, almost viable.

I am not denying Tzeentch releases are coming. I'd expect both a daemons and Arcanites in the next few months, there are to many signs pointing that way to dismiss. It is just that this particular rumor looks like someone trying to pass of guesswork as credible information . I don't see the releases happening in that particular combination and timetable.

Very salty. That doesn't look like a coherent AoS wave, as it is all demons except for Tzaangor. Every wave release so far has been for one particular faction. If Tzaangor are to get their rules outside of an Arcanites release, why the wait at all? Also, only mentions stuff we know is coming or that has been circulated in the rumor mill for some time now. Also, BoLS. I have more faith in Faeit at this point and that is a pure agregator. The only way I could see this happen is: -Combined Tzeentch daemon release for 40k/fantasy -Tzaangor as a seperate mini faction along with first campaign book -Arcanites proper pending and released later And I find that still unlikely and displeasing. With allegiances developing as they are, I'd find a further facturing into even more subfactions rather bothersome.

Well, this is my progress from Wednesday, I just had to wait for better light. My slaughterpriest is about done: I just have to complete the wrathhammer and some minor detail and touchups, then he is ready to go. The giant had the his helmet fully shaped and ready to receive details. The greaves are getting close to detail work as well. Once those are finished, I can attatch and finish sculpting the arms as well. My Chaos Warriors are growing in ranks and detail as well: Got a sixt close to that stage as well, but still a lot of work to be done on these. I am looking to add some gems (as seen on the iconbearer and symbols of Tzeentch, to tie them together with an eventual Arcanites release. Lots of work to be done on these, as I went more than a bit overboard in personalising these. It is good practise though and since they are rank and file, I feel I can get away with a few mistakes. Sorry about the one guy hiding his head behind the sword though, I only caught that bit of bad positioning in uploading.

I might have underestimated how widespread the thread format is. I've found it to be a common variant on RPG Messageboards, one person starting a "101 whatever" thread getting the Ball rolling and every further poster adding a few numbers of ideas. Anyway, I'll prepare a bigger post tomorrow, collecting the ideas provided so far and adding some more of my own.

I don't know. Outside of the AoS starter, all those box sets have been for already well supported armies. I mean, completely new armies sell very well in seperate kits, while boxed sets get people to buy basic units with one or two new characters.

One of the things I really like about Narrative Play is the ability to shake things up and play the game in many different ways. A point where this is especially true, is also one of the most contended and difficult points of Narrative Plays: How to decide on a way to build the Forces each player has available. So I thought it would be a cool thing for the community to collect a list of as many different ways to select Forces in Narrative Play as possible. To get this rolling, I thought I'd throw in the first five ideas I can think of, along with the pro and cons of each option: 1. Use some variant of Matched Play Points. Points are not the only thing that make a game Matched Play, by using Points, but ignoring all other restrictions of the mode, you get a flexible approach to building Narrative Play Armies. Pro: You know what to expect. If you have experience with Matched Play, you have a very good idea how armies build using Points measure up. Points can give you an easy guide on the size of battles You have a reasonable amount of balance. It is easy to vary the strength of Forces. Many battleplans are build for scenarios where one Army has a more powerful Force than the other. With points you can give a good guide on the amount of the power difference. Con: It is the same old. If you want a change from Matched Play, using points won't get you very far. Problems from Matched Play carry over to Narrative. A overcosted unit in Matched Play, is still undercosted and a painful tradeoff to include. Similarly, undercosted units and overpowered options remain so. Points wheren't designed for anything but Matched Play. A good example are Mages, who are costed taking the rule of one into account and get much stronger without it in effect. 2. Just use your entire collection and let the battleplan take care of things. A great number of Narrative Battleplans released so far, put limits on the forces that can be deployed. Also, the missions given in battleplans often serve to balance a weaker force against a stronger, making victory far easier for the underdog ,sometimes all you need to do is survive and in a few, not even that is necessary! Pro: It is fast and easy. No accounting of numbers, nothing to organize, no haggling. Just grab what seems appropiate and go. Con: The bigger collection has a clear advantage. 3. Have a third person select the armies according to the scenario and background. Pro: Depending on you "Pool" of people, you get a huge variance of games just from this mode of Army selection. A dedicated competitive player will get you very different selections from a background fanatic. Particularly interesting might be having someone who doesn't play select armies. The different Players do not even get the opportunity to attempt to get an advantage through army selection. Con: You need a third party that is willing to do this with either a cohesive knowledge of or direct access to the mini collections of all players. People unaware of Fluff or Rules might make rather wonky choices. This may be hard to pull of spontaniously. 4. Have each Player choose their Force freely but blind of each other, then send the list to a third person, who amends the lists for Fluff and Balance, by cutting units. Pro: You get to make your own choices. Depending on the judge, this may well be the most balanced option. The judge needs no knowledge of the players collection. This can be organized online! We could set up a thread where people volunteer to judge or put out a call for a judge, both players send in their lists per e-mail or pm, then the judge sends back the ammended list for game day. Con: This needs to be organized and preplanned. The players need to accept the judges decision. The judge needs to be dependable, would be a bummer for everyone involved if the judge fails to send in his ammendmends by game day. 5. Haggle about it. Both players select their armies as in 4. But instead of sending the lists to a judge, they negotiate any ammendmends with each other. Pro: This can be quite fast and doesn't need a large amount of preplanning. Possibly the most satisfactory and fluffy results for the involved players. Con: Only works if both players are of agreeable temperament and a particularly cooperative mindset. If sparks start flying, even the best of friends should step back from this variant. Just a last few comments: I'd hope this thread remains a listing of community ideas. This is not meant to find the one true way of building Narrative Armies, but provide a toolbox of various ideas that can be tried out, toyed with and mixed and matched. Nor is this meant to be a discussion of the merits of Narrative Play in general. So, with that said, lets get this rolling, if you have an idea, just put a number to it and post away!

Welcome on board! That is an incredible force, both the paintjob and conversions are stunning.

So, hastings dropped this little gem: Mind, this was posted in a 40k context, but with so much crossover in Chaos and that wording, I thought it might be relevant to us.

Don't say that. If cheap enough, it would be great as a LoS blocker.

I'll be keen on the results you get. That kit looks perfetct for a (long term) project I'm planning, but I am really concerned about the scale. I have some scattered LotR bits and they are tiny even compared to Empire Troopers.

If 40k, with the agents book around the corner, dare I say, Inquisition?

I'm thinking Tzeentch again, but I am way less sure than last week. I do know for certain that I already love that bit. The way those keys are held is brilliant and something I don't think we have seen before and to top it of, the arm and keys look easy to seperate, making this excellent for conversions.