EchoHavoc
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Posts posted by EchoHavoc
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30 minutes ago, Doko said:
In real life 0, in tts around 15 games of these maybe 5 were fyreslayers.
In short ranged armys kite us(redeploy must be faqed because with a army of 4" move is imposible play to the mouse with units going away from you a d6) or delete us betwen regular shooting and overwatch(played against myself and a overwatch of 30 irondrakes with runelord,hurricanum and a +1 wound of tempest eye deleted almost 10 of my 15 buffed hearthguards)
Melle armys were more playable,but vampires blood knigths mince us and graveguard too if we dont play hermdar for attack first. And others as ironjawz with the bigg wwag and support also delete us if we dont attack first and maw krusha can kill he alone 3 magmadroths
My advice would be play some games of 3rd edition. Use a variety of lists. Play against different armies. Then come back and give your feedback.
Saying that the army is terrible without playing games with them in the new edition is baseless. Your opinion will also carry more weight once you’ve played a decent number of games.
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59 minutes ago, Beliman said:
I think he is talking about 3d edition and not 3 round tournaments.
This is correct. I was indeed talking about 3rd edition age of Sigmar.
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1 hour ago, Doko said:
How we arent balanced when we arent even close to top 5?
I can tell you how 5+ armys can stomp us with our 40 herthguards,attacking first,attacking twice,with a save of 2 and 4++
Now these same 5 armys have got almost zero nerfs while we wont can stand even one turn against them.
Btw slanesh are a bunch of cryers,the playtesters have spoken how broken they were with his new rules and the best free sumon of the game,and every 3.0 game that i watched of slanesh have been won by slanesh.
Just a quick question how many games of 3 have you played with fyreslayers?
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13 minutes ago, Doko said:
I dont get how you guys are happy to loose battalion,loose a 50% of prayers,loose 25% of the hearthguard unit.
Rigth now we are around 7\8 place with these changes we gonna be botton tier but you are happy
As vince vinturella said yesterday in his new points review,fyrslayer have been the most hitted army of all aos with the edittion and gonna be umplayable.
As he said the biggest impact gonna be cant stack saves,bye bye our +3 save(prayer of ash,battlesmith and runesmitter on magmadroth one time per game)
So we arent even close to top tier and we habe been deleted by the new changes,every tournament player have said as we gonna be useless untill we get our next tome but some of yours are happy i dont get it.
Similar if seraphon now cant cast magic,cant shoot and they are happy because they dont need mages or skinks or salamander.
If you are happy being trash tier army good for you,but i want a balanced army that can be played(and next edition fyreslayers wont be playable)
To be honest I think you and I are playing very different games of age of Sigmar. I’m only interested in the competitive scene.
Fyreslayers were no where near the most effected by the changes. Did you see what happened to Slaanesh for example? Also gitz? Beasts of chaos?
The stuff you have named is everything that was wrong with the game. Stacking bonuses was an awful rule and way to play. Battalions were so unbalanced it wasn’t even funny.
like I said to begin with I don’t think you and I are interested in the same sort of games. If you wanted a balanced army you’d also want a balanced game. Fyreslayers were not in any way shape of form balanced. Rolling up the board with 40-60 HGBs fighting first, fighting twice with a 3++ or 4++ save is not balanced.
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25 minutes ago, PJetski said:
If you're really worried about magic you can take two Battlesmiths and give each one a Nulsidian Icon to give your army two 4+ ignore effects
If you're really worried about SOB (or any MONSTER meta) you should go Lofnir and bring a bunch of Auric Hearthguard
So my current list runs 2 battle smiths. Although I imagine that’ll be changing. Then if I can fit them in I’ll be bringing 20 Auric to try and help deal with SOB or any monsters.
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Okay so overall I think fyreslayers are actually in an okay spot.
I was annoyed originally that they didn’t increase our base unit size to 10. However, after seeing the points and that most armies didn’t get any increase in unit size. It’s a good thing for us.
Everyone is going to be either running msu or monsters. Well Auric are perfect to take out monsters. HGB in 10s are still decent. Plus is opens up a spot for Vulkites as well.
The changes also open up other opportunities for different choices other than just Hermdar. On that note lords of the lodge was one of the most broken, horrible battalions in the game. People hated it. So glad that’s gone.
I don’t think we will be top tier but I think we can do well into a lot of armies. I’m still worried we will struggle against magic heavy lists and heavy shooting armies. Also with SoB being everywhere these days we might struggle to take them off objectives but then so will everyone else.
As a tournament player I expect to go 3-2 with Fyreslayers. I expect going 4-1 or 5-0 will be too much of a stretch as we do have some really nasty matchups now.Also the Hunters battalion is going to be HUGE for us!!
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Just now, Feorag said:
Really!!!
I did say the points were changing
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12 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:
The issue with Hearthguard unit/box size is that the AoS3 rules indirectly nerfed spamming Hearthguard with the Reinforcement rules. Now instead of 3x20 you’ll see 2x15 and maybe some units of 5. If they up the box/unit size to 10, it completely undermines the nerf (although we’d all appreciate the price discount of buy 1x10 vs the current 2x5 costs).
Hearthguard, according to the lore, are more of a bodyguard elite unit rather than the main fighting force and it’s always bothered me that spamming max Hearthguard is all anyone seems to do. Now GW are in an awkward position, because the fyreslayers model range/unit selection is so small, they can’t really apply lore based restrictions on army building (ie no Battleline Hearthguard, and max 1 limits for Runefather and Runemaster).GW have backed Fyreslayers (and themselves) into a corner, if they don’t plan to expand the army then they have no choice but to do a Orruk Warclans style book for Duardin. If yet another Fyreslayers battletome is released without any new models, then I think that will kill the faction. It would send a message to players (intentionally or not) that the army is on life support and won’t be supported. It will drive away the people who want to get into Fyreslayers but don’t because there’s limited choices, and potentially drive away the current players of the faction. I understand GW is a business and needs to make money, but Fyreslayers are in a catch22. They’re (apparently) unpopular and have low sales, and because of that gw (seemingly) don’t want to invest more money/resources into a bad selling faction by making more units. But not having more units is a major factor in why they’re unpopular and don’t sell well 🤷♂️
When fyreslayers first came out I remember everyone spammed vulkites. Which meant GW didn’t sell HGB or AHG as well. Then they did what they always do (there’s so many examples of this take deepkin sharks and turtles or DoK snakes) they buffed the units they weren’t selling. So now people just spam HGB.
Fyreslayers are one of the the worst selling factions in AoS. It’s just the way it is. Not only that but they are unpopular. I believe in the order section on the website they now have the most limited model range.
I’ve been a long standing competitive Fyreslayers player and I hate how GW has treated the faction. I’m waiting to see the points values tonight (Facehammer are doing a release video on YouTube). If the points are in line with everything else I’ll continue to play them. However, if the points put us in a situation, where along with the nerf to priests, unit sizes and us lacking a clear hero/monster we are going to be weaker than ever it will be time to move on. Which is pretty sad considering GW could do so much with this army. It’s just as a tournament player I can’t wait around for GW to potentially fix us/release new models.
I do however, think that from what we’ve seen so far from the releases/lore etc. GW are planning something for the dwarves. I just think that’s going to be a combined battle tome. Which I’m not a fan of.
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I know this isn’t what everyone wants to hear/see but I’d be expecting our points to go up around 5%-15%
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1 minute ago, Arzalyn said:
Battletome battalions are called warscroll battalions, they aren't matched play legal anymore.
Ohhh jeez that’s exactly what I was saying
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12 hours ago, Arzalyn said:
Core battalions are allowed, but warscrolls aren't, the core book as a paragraph about it on the matched play session:
"You can include core battalions in your army,but you cannot include warscroll battalions."I was only referring to the battletome battalions
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I’ve heard various rumours floating round the net that all points are going to increase apart from Slaanesh. This maybe be wishful thinking, but if it’s true it puts the army is such a good place.
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On 6/11/2021 at 6:03 PM, CeleFAZE said:
These faction articles have largely been hit or miss, especially the SBGL article which gave no new information and seemed to have been written by someone who likely doesn't play the faction. However our article at least answers the question of whether or not we can summon larger units to bypass the reinforcement point system.
The mentioning of symbaresh and myrmadesh was interesting, though I think the more telling omission is slaangors. You'd think they'd have said something about their 2" reach, but it seems they are aware of the sorry state of the unit internally at least.
This couldn’t be further from the truth. The guy who wrote the Soul Blight article is one of if not the best death player in the U.K
They’ve just had a new book so really wasn’t much to give away.
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On 6/8/2021 at 7:57 PM, Beliman said:
New generic CAs. Unleash Hell seems to be fine for us, but remember that rerolls are going the way of the dodo (no generic CA, some people say that batallions are going to narrative only, and we don't know anything about triumphs...glups!). With -1 to hit and no mortal wounds in our base shooting profiles, it seems that our gimmick is having a high volume of shooting attacks instead of the quality of them (at least we have rend and the enemy can't use the generic CA for +1 to save...).
Rally could be fine for 20 man arkanauts or even thunderers and +1 to hit for our shooting phase seems really good!!
I will mis the Bound Chronomatic Coggs to play Thryng/ Zon (/sadfase):
Just to touch on one point here. Battalions are definitely going for matched play. They’ve said it a few times now. They want to even the playing field.
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As I’ve said before KO are an iconic AoS faction. They feature heavily in the lore, plus they have a huge fan base. I don’t see them getting a combined battletome. I see them being left to their own devices.
Fyreslayers on the other hand are less popular and feature less in the recent lore. I can see them getting combined to boost sales.
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3 minutes ago, CarkFish said:
I finally managed to sit down and look at all this tonight... I'm going to preface this by saying that individually I think all the models are stunning... Even kragnos
However .... This whole new destruction thing feels badly contrived, rushed and poorly executed ... Kragnos doesn't "belong" .... And it's a real shame.
It feels like the design meeting went a bit like this:
"Guys, destruction focus for 3.0! ... They need a huge centerpiece... Thoughts!?"
"Well, Steve, Destruction all pretty much worship gorkamorka, how about a massive god scale model of him?"
"Great idea Kevin! .... But, we don't have time to design that! .... Is there anything we could use now?"
"Well, I guess I've got this weird centaur guy, he doesn't really fit with anything .... But if we scale him up 309% maybe no one will notice how half arsed it all is?
"Kevin you've done it again!! .... Great work! ... Can you add some kinda orky totem thing to his base? ... Might help us sell this codswhollop to the fans?"
"Leave it with me Steve!"
Haters gonna hate.
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2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:
I do trust Whitefang, and they pretty much said outright dwarves will be pulped into a new battletome which serves Grungni.
GW marketing would try and sell taping FS and KO together as a new wave of models for both.
If they hate dwarves that much, I don't have hopes for a Valaya faction.
Who is Whitefang? Is he/she/they a trusted rumour site or person?
To be honest I wouldn’t mind a united battletome that much. I mainly play the game for tournaments and having access to both armies would benefit me hugely.
From a lore view point well it sucks!
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2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:
It would be good news that GW is better at making models if they didn't just tape the dwarven factions to one another. This probably means that they are not going to make any dwarven models for AoS (except an overpriced hero, maybe two) in the coming years.
Since there have been two Squats in Necromunda and there have been a few hints otherwise, there's a better chance that 40k/Necromunda/Kill team will get an unit box of dwarves than AoS.
Again I couldn’t agree more. I really hope we are wrong and GW gives us the treatment we deserve. However, I’ve got a suspicion that won’t happen. I’d love to be proven wrong though.
having said that, I do think KO are going to see a release either this year or next. Depending on timings etc. They are just too popular to be left out in the dark. They have become an almost iconic AoS army and they are heavily in the lore.
However, because of the way GW have done Slayers they are almost half AoS half fantasy/old world. -
I think GW really have 3 options:
They can soup all the dwarfs together and maybe we get a release a decent release and then probably won’t get looked at again for 3-4 years.
They could keep us all separate and introduce another dwarf faction. Or just keep things as the are and don’t introduce anything new (faction wise)
They could soup Slayers with this new faction and keep KO separate.
From a business perspective it makes the most sense to push KO hard as they are incredibly popular (or at they were). Then they have a choice between pushing slayers which history says aren’t that popular or souping slayers with a new “improved” faction.
If any dwarf faction was to get the LRL treatment it would either be KO or a new faction. That’s not going to happen to slayers.
Honestly speaking if I was them. I’d do like a huge release for Slayers, KO and a Duardin army lead by Grungni, grombrindal and maybe Valaya. Probably wrap it all into one and call it a day for a bit on the little folk. See how the sales go and then revisit them in a few years if sales go well.
a lot of the rumours going around are that armies which haven’t had a second wave of models will get them. If this is true then I’d expect both KO and slayers to stay separate.
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5 hours ago, zilberfrid said:
I really like the lore of Fyreslayers, but they dropped the ball on the models.
If you look at their faces, they are mostly neutral. No beard disguises expressions THAT much. Their posing is also really static. Now I know AoS got into more dynamic posing only later, but it makes them look a bit boring.
If we'd take the weapons away, the dwarves themselves, heroes and infantry alike, are just about interchangable.
Souping means no new boxes, which means the Fyreslayer design space will not be explored. So no model for this.
For Kharadron, it means that GW will consider melee infantry more than filled, so no
steamAethersuit melee troops.
We also miss the opportunity for a different take on shirtless dwarves (not really, but came across it and had to share).
I completely agree with you on this GW really dropped the ball on the models. Because they were one of the first AoS releases, it felt rushed and honestly just wasn’t up to the standard of today’s models.
The good news is the models that GW are producing now (in my opinion) are fantastic. So here’s hoping we have that to look forward to.
I would love to see GW get more dynamic with the dwarfs as the lore is so vast and there’s so much more they could do with them. I think the risk is will they sell models. They know they can do almost anything wi the elves and they will sell bucket loads. Whereas with us they are a more selected taste.
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I think from a business point of view it makes sense to soup things together for us. While KO is one of the most popular armies, Fyreslayers is not.
GW have had a lot of success with this in AoS. for example skaven, cities, clans, slaanesh (mortals and daemons).
from a lore sense this makes well almost none.
However, even back in fantasy there were always more elf books than anything else. People really shouldn’t compare the two. The simple fact is, elves sell more dwarfs sell less.
My main army has been Fyreslayers since AoS 1. While I’m not thrilled about the idea of souping us all together. It’s better than having little to no support. So bring it on!
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After this was posted on the warhammer community page. I think a combined battletome is on the cards in one way or another.
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Stormcast have featured in every single edition starter set. Each time the newer models make the older ones slightly worse. Then again this happens when a new battletome gets released, GW push models they want to push it’s that simple.
So no these new models won’t invalidated your older models completely. However, yes it will make them slightly worse because GW want to push this new range.
For me personally I have always disliked stormcast. I’ve never liked how bulky they are. This new range really appeals to me and just might make me start a stormcast army. This is exactly what GW wants. Like any business they want to keep existing customers while creating new ones. So yeah roll on Age of Sigmar 3 and new stormcast!!
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AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion
in Order
Posted
What I asked was how many games of 3rd edition have you played with fyreslayers. You said you’d played 15 games on TTS *maybe* 5 were with fyreslayers. Did you not read my post?
TTS is an okay substitute for the real game but when a new edition has just come out you can’t beat actually playing the game in person.
in my opinion with everything you have said my above post still stands. You need to get more play time in with the army. 5 games on TTS is not enough for you to come on here and rant about how bad the army is.