Neil Arthur Hotep

I would definitely agree that there is a bit of a problem in so far that one very specific type of hero, namely infantry brawlers, are almost across the board too weak to be worth using. And as you say, those are some of the most iconic archetypes in warhammer. The Chaos Lord frequently crops up as a negative example in these discussions, because he basically just brings his combat profile to the table and nothing else. And then that combat profile is not very impressive. But this is also a unit that a lot of people love for its "your dudes" potential. I think it's important to acknowledge that infantry brawlers have a lot working against them from first principles, though: Good combat units need to deal damage and have a way to deliver that damage, and by virtue of being on foot, infantry brawlers are usually slow. This means that in most games they won't have an impact until turn 2 or 3, at which point a lot of the action will already be over. So even if they got their damage output buffed substantially, chances are most pure melee damage infantry heroes would still not feel very good to use.

I wonder how it will go. What do people think would be a good point cost for a unit like the new Vindictors?

Here you go, guys:

Since it seems to be a popular topic, here's a separate thread for it. Infantry heroes are often pretty weak in AoS. Can this be changed? Should it be changed? This episode of Warhammer Weekly gets into the topic and has some explanations of why things might be as they are:

He might see an update for 4th, right? I remember a few Legends warscrolls being updated in the transition from 2nd to 3rd, but maybe I dreamt that?

It seems to me that, when looking at Sniper-Master, Guarded Hero and Fight (as a stand in for "Shoot") next to each other, it is fairly clear that the effect of Sniper Master is limited to the target selection in the Declare step of Shoot. Maybe this helps you see where I am coming from. What's the difference between these rules: "For the rest of the turn, this unit can ignore the effect of the Guarded Hero ability (full stop)." "For the rest of the turn, this unit can ignore the effect of the Guarded Hero ability when resolving its shooting attacks." "For the rest of the turn, this unit can ignore the effect of the Guarded Hero ability when picking the target for its shooting attacks." IMO, it's fairly clear that these three rules would interact differently with Guarded Hero, disabling all of its effects, only the -1 to hit and only the targeting restriction, respectively. Since I don't think it's very fruitful to discuss rules in-depth before the full core rules are even out, this will be my last post on this particular topic. In the end, I think it's confusing enough that we will get an FAQ ruling, anyway.

It does not say that, dude. Maybe they want it to be like that, but they would have to errata it.

"...when picking targets." Not when you resolved your shooting attack.

Seems to only affect picking targets, not the -1 to hit.

Is he from a Call of Duty game? Is that why they painted him in only browns? You just know Skaven would be super toxic in chat, too. "Get owned-possessed, manling noob-noob."

What they didn't tell us is that Fyreslayer and KO are also going directly to legends to make dorf soup possible.

Yeah, right? Although a literal sniper hero should surely be on the upper end

I am hoping that the Fusil-Major gets a similar rule. Being a sniper should be niche in AoS for ranged units, so that they can be worthwhile without being able to point-and-click whole infantry blocks.

Some new info from the latest model reveal: Some things that stand out to me: Look Out, Sir! is still in the game under a new name. Seems otherwise identical to its last incarnation. Crit(Auto-Wound) is an ability that exists. A sniper rifle has a range of 24". SKRYRE keyword exists.

You were right! He actually works as a spotter for a unit of Jezzails.

I think he looks pretty neat, but the brown-on-brown paint job is not doing him any favors. Also, someone needs to tell Skaven how telescopes work.

Of course, the best thing would be to have models perpetually for sale, properly integrated into a faction. That much is clear. But starting from the assumption that GW is not always able or willing to do that for every commemorative or side game model? Putting them into Legends right away is the best solution. What other options are there? Release them with no rules: "But they already put out a model, why can't I use it in game?" Release them with matched play rules, then legends them next edition: "Great bait and switch, GW! I would not have bought that model if I knew you were squatting it." Release the model and update the rules: "Why is this weird out of production model from 6 years ago required to play competitively? Great pay to win game you got there, James Workshop!"

It's certainly reasonable to want more dwarf action in AoS. I'd like to see that, too. But maybe 4th ed is finally the time for it I stand by what I said about Legends having an image problem, though. If they had a separate category which was functionally the same, but called "Narrative rules" or whatever, I really believe people would be more accepting of it.

The perception change I am talking about is that at time of release, legends rules are just as good as non-legends rules (for non-tournament play). Putting a model's rules directly into Legends tells you what to expect: You can play this unit for now, but don't count on them being a permanent fixture in the game. This is 100% the best way to handle limited edition and side game models.

Legends rules have an image problem. They are treated as a warscroll graveyard, when it would be much better to treat them as non-tournament legal rules. Legends rules are perfect for casual matched play and narrative games.

I think the pocket watch and weights on his belt are KO bits. I don't know enough about Fyreslayers to point out their stuff, though. Maybe the rune on the axe?

That's the best part! Straight into casual-only, so he can get fun fluffy rules and we don't have to worry about a limited edition model messing up competitive play for the next three years.

Release the Malerion faction and then put him into deity jail right away.

Having infantry units give 4+ bodyguard to infantry heroes in their own regiment seems like a soft incentive they could implement without messing up a bunch of edge cases. But I suspect they will just leave it at Look Out, Sir! for now.

Seems to me that either it gets focus fired or it gets ignored. Not really sure how you get out of that dilemma. More to the point, I also think that if heroes were so good that you would never prioritize normal troops over them, people would be complaining about how hero hammer is too strong instead. Really, overall I think it's quite nice that normal troops are often the deciding factor, rather than heroes.