cyberhawk94

What size units for Spirit Hosts and Chainrasps? Spirit Hosts feel like 6 so they have a better chance of surviving to take advantage of the "revive models" mechanics with their 3 wounds. But they do have coherency issues then, so maybe 3s? Chainrasps Im think either 10s in the underworld to grab objectives, or a big block of 30 in Reikinor's Condemmed. Though it is possible that 2x20 is better with all the ways to heal them. Any use for the larger units not in RC?

Yea Seraphon's subfactions have a mandatory relics, but the command traits are mandatory IF your general is a specific model (Slann/Saurus/Monster) So if you want to take a specific command trait for your Slann in Koatl's Claw / Thunder Lizard, you can. You just have a set one for saurus generals / generals on a monster respectively

Its just a gmbinder link, you can see that on hover over (a homebrew site many use for DnD). Is there any way to post the changes without a link? hard to have a discussion about it without seeing them I mean you still have the mandatory artefacts. It seems odd that we have a huge list of 15 command traits none of which will ever be used. How Seraphon did it seems to be more how they are going in newer books

Link to the houserules Hey all! Im sure it isn't too controversial of a statement to sat that BoC aren't in the best place right now. I wanted to help them out a bit for home games so that my play groups games felt a bit more even (BoC player felt the need to treat every game like a tourny, tzeetch player felt the need to self-neuter lists against BoC, etc) I didn't want to edit warscrolls due to the added complexity / unintended side effects for other chaos allegiances, and battalions seemed like it would be too easy to miss units or force it into a specific playstyle, so I decided the best way to go would be a homebrew allegiance that is a side-step from a regular one (in the style of Legion of Grief from nighthaunt or Lethisian Defenders from order). Main changes: 1) Addition of the Primal Fury rule from WHFB since none of the allegiance abilities actually helped in combat (and BoC had less than most factions) 2) Brayherd Ambush now works like a normal ambush (turns 1-3), other two sub-races got similar buffs 3) Buffed allherd and darkwalker abilities so gavespawn isn't the 90% sure choice 4) made the greatfray command traits avoidable (like how seraphon did it, I think all subfactions should work like this) In the link above you can see what I landed on, and I would love some feedback on whether I missed the mark, went to far, BoC would still suck with this, etc.

Idk if anyone would be interested, but I recently put together a "houserule" allegiance for Beasts of Chaos for much of the same reasons are are stated in this thread about Sylvaneth (the warscrolls/points costs are mostly fine, the allegiance abilities have simply been left behind at this point. Most armies get ~4 allegiance abilities + a possible terrain, BoC gets 2 allegiance abilities on any given model because of how they wrote them & counting the herdstone as one) Nothing I would try to take to a FLGS or anything, but its made games more fun with my casual friend group, I can actually play my BoC without having to default to the "horde of bodies that just play objectives" playstyle that they are stuck in at the moment. (link for reference) I definitely wouldn't mind putting together something similar for Sylvaneth if there is interest, though since Im not as familiar Id need help with what the problems are / rules from the old book that should be brought back

I think there would be two possible options here. For both, Ambush becomes until turn 4 like the rest of those abilities, and some warscrolls like Hounds and Gors get updated. In addition: 1) Ambush becomes army wide , Brayherd gets some additional benefit (possibly related to ambushing so they are best at it). Darkwalkers gets a completely new benefit, possibly a huge buff when ambushing. 2) A new army-wide rule like Primal Fury. The 3 Herd rules get buffs. Darkwalkers gets a small benefit to replace the turn 2 ambushing. Personally I prefer two, as ambush feels like a brayherd thing to me, and a new army wide combat rule would do a lot to help without having to touch a bunch of warscrolls, but I can definitely see the argument for the army-wide ambush. I can't see buffing the herd rules, adding a rule like Primal Fury, AND having herd-agnostic ambushing without major point changes to go with it. Some edge case like the Ghorgon is going to end up breaking from that.

Changed it to D3+1. consistent on Peasants, 50/50 of 1-2 knights, and 1/3 chance of rezzing a Pegasus

They have the Blessing of the Lady over greatswords, and do less damage. They're closer to Ironbreakers IMO. But honestly theyre just there to be rules for people that bought foot knights for 9th age and similar Huh, thats a good point on the model/unit thing, will change that Restoration on Peg Knights.... Yea I can see that. Nighthaunt does it with spirit hosts but their much weaker. Not sure how to change that to work on Cav but not peg knights... but cant cut it since it was so common in WHFB I wanted to keep it

what do you think of my propsed changes then? at least as a temporary holdover not changing warscrolls, but giving all warherd the ability to re-roll failed wounds after getting a kill makes them really scary, especially with their 6's to wound rules, but ONLY if they get that kill. they become the unit you DONT want to feed chaff to, as that makes them really killy for the rest of the game

Thanks for the feedback! To address your points: The thing with the lance formation is because of pile-in, it only works if you attack first (your opponent can just surround the front of the lance and pull a 4th or 5th model into combat). This is why I make the Lord's CA what it is, its really important to getting lance charges off. Its easy to use on paper to try and make it more about your tactics / the opportunity cost of the command points than trying to get a list of conditions to line up. Field trebuchet was always slightly tougher among the artillery in WHFB, its currently the same stats as a Hellstorm/Celestar but +3 wounds. I could make it unique by knocking down its save but having cover from ranged attacks though, thats easy enough. By using Purity + Champion of the Lady, you can turn peasants into a disgustingly cheap tarpit (5+ ignore wounds + regen), and there is the battalion for Re-rolls to hit. I might change the foot banner for the Noble though, Ill look through the old book and see if there were any items I could copy. Keep in mind the Enchantress spell + Faithful Masses can really ramp up the damage on peasants It was, but I couldnt find a model that wasn't kitbashed. that might just be ignorance though, I can definitely add a +20 points for a pegasus option. Not a typo, there isnt a situation where unit/model makes a distinction in that rule, and model is clearer IMO Is there any egregiously low/high points values you can see? might save me some time lol

First Draft: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MQjHdN1xGEoM9-dhOmH No lore blurbs for items and such yet, but warscrolls and allegiance abilities are in there. Would love feedback on balance and design in general. The points costs are rough estimates, I haven't actually sat down and done extensive comparisons yet. Units that should be fairly strong as they are iconic to the army and should be part of Brets strengths: Knights of the Realm, Grail Knights, Trebuchets, Green Knight Units that some people might not have access to so should be on the weak side (basically just have rules for the sake of it): Yeoman, Foot Knights The Green Knight in particular Im looking for feedback on. I had to do most of the design work from scratch as he was pointed equal to the Light of Ethalion with like a 3rd of the abilities (was basically just a Bretonnian Lord with deepstrike and ethereal but no command ability) He shouldn't hit as hard as LoE but is way more mobile, and while not as tanky can resurrect, so they might be close to equal? mobility is the hardest thing to point cost. The other controversial decision I made was to 'cut' Knights Errant as two nearly identical battleline cavalry, especially ones that most people used the same models for, just seemed like unnecessary design. Plus it left a lore opening for Foot Knights, as Knights Errant are young and eager, they might not have 'earned' their steeds yet, etc My goal is to shoot for low B / high C tier, as Ive found homebrew is way easier to feel okay if there is no chance of seeming OP, so most of the units will probably end up ~10-20 points higher than they should be just to help with that goal.

I guess, we have so few units that can re-roll charges (as far as I know only chariots and Warherd near a specific general) that I didnt think it would be an issue. The rule can easily be changed to re-roll charges, thats just less flexible since it is only a benefit for charging, not getting to an objective / in range of a spell / moving a character to buff a charging unit etc Misthavn's +d6" and +1 to charges on their units musicians seemed much stronger to me, since it could even be a 3" charge out of ambush

The new Cities faction (Misthavn) already has this. Theirs costs a CP but also is d6 inches. Not to mention the shenanigans Living City could do before that (more restrictive but still) The problems I was trying to fix with the ambush rules changes I had were two-fold: 1) We are the worst ambush army of all the ambush armies in the game (Draco Tail, Nighthaunt, Stormcast, all arent limited in turn or to board edges) 2) Shadow walkers is the "ambush subfaction" that doesn't really do anything to make your ambush better, it just lets more units ambush. I changed the core rule so we at least can pick the turn, still limited to board edge so still worse than those armies but its at least closer (like living city). And the d3" move was pulled from Misthavn but toned down to a non-Command ability. I thought it fit the lore of shadowwalkers best. Any other bonus on the ambush turn would work here just as well (re-roll charges, +1 to hit or wound, etc) it just needs something to actually be the ambush faction. +d3" is mathematically the same as re-rolling charges, and we aren't always ambushing chariots, and other deep-strike factions dont always ambush things that can re-roll charges. It wouldn't make it a no brainer, it would just make aggressive ambushing an actual option Darkwalkers were the ones that got the +d3", and +d3" and re-roll charges are almost exactly the same mathematically, its just more unique and slightly more flexible

Lance Formation's potential can be mitigated by limiting the strength or size of the units that have access to it. Based of the most recent warscrolls, the only units that even use lances are Knights of the Realm / Errant, Pegasus, and Grail Knights. So I can simply take it into account with the battleline, and limit the max size of the elite units to not be an issue. The problem with a flat buff is a old-school 12 or 15 man lance will always do more damage going 6+ wide then any buffs I can give to 3 models, so they'd never actually be in lance formation

Ah that explains it. You specifically said "Free Peoples" so I grabbed the Knightly Orders warscroll because it is the only specifically Free Peoples cavalry, but it is also an outdated compendium one. Comparing to current warscrolls I see your point