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Dunmer_SC2

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  1. As I suggested, just extend the cut off points for books and any advantage whether percieved or real will be negated. Then we can all go back to rolling dice and wait for this whole thing to blow over.
  2. First off I will say that competitively apt players are needed as playtesters to help sort out bad play experiences that can arise from abusive rules. As an aside I also think some casual players should be involved in playtesting, in fact I would say a whole spectrum of players should be testing to help balance the narrative and meta balance of any book but thats on the company GW itself to think about. So its not an argument for this post. Concerning whether or not you get an advantage, I see above Mr Charisma talking about prior knowledge of how an army plays being an advantage. As you pointed out its only valid if you can act on it and regarding the recent podcast, the playtesters were talking about aetherquartz giving you re rolls when now we know its just a +1 modifier. I do not if it was a mistake by them but I am guessing that the playtesters version of the rules could be an evolving rule set as balance and rules interactions is sorted out. So I also agree that playing the army early can be a very confusing and challenging thing when then entering the "meta" that the rest off us have. So it is debateable if thats a real advantage. As for the results, you shouldnt look at 1st places as a metric, especially in this enviroment. Top 8 scores should be considered and the lists used to get those scores and also the timing off those events. You might win an even with an older book, but lets say FEC was just released and you know how to beat it. So as I will explain below thats the real advantage(if any) here. Looking at Bad Dice rankings and from the playtesters we know and the lists used at events then you can get real empirical data to support or debunk this whole thing. I had a quick look and I dont know when books were released so I cant make any real judgement. Its also unfair because playtesters are good players so will probably do well anyway so really this whole thing is objective. But lets roll back the clocks, we have had several tournaments where a player(doesnt even matter if it was a tester) bring a hard as nails list and smash everyone out of the water. Happens all the time and nobody can deny that, now this is what I call a meta busting list and its real power comes from your opponent not knowing what the list can do/ not knowing how to deal with it/also lists arent equipped for it. Gavriel surcharge was a dominating list but when people figured it out and learned what it does and practiced against it and brought screens. That list fell back into mediocry. So my point to this is the advantage of knowledge prior to everyone else. I do alright at tournaments, playing with the NI and Ireland 6 nations guys. I played the 2018 Facehammer Champion as a practice partner for tonnes of games prior to going. This was the 90 witch elves Hagg Nar list, first off its kind and still today is a pretty strong list. That army tabled plenty of people because like I said above, they did not know what the list did and how it functioned with buffs etc. So in turn you do not know how to take it apart and dismantle it and most importantly peoples lists were not equipped to deal with it. I played a DoK list while at facehammer and I won confidently against another good DoK player, I won because I knew his army and what to do with it, adding to this I brought a list nobody had seen before and many people spend 10 mins at the start of the game listening to me explain the rules interactions. This is a personal experience but I am only using it to show an advantaged gained by bringing not only a new list but also the knowledge of knowing said army. Of course we have all had similiar experiences where you dont know what something really does and make a mistake, or you win because of said mistake. It happens, but when you are playtesting an army. You know the top lists coming out off it and you know how to play, what they can achieve, their shortcomings, what you need in your list to deal with these. And the most important part as you guys mentioned is just having the models painted and ready. Which is a situational advantage but majority of people dont have time to paint a new tech choice for their list in the 2 weeks after a book drops and lists are figured out. Its a bit of rant and by no means a perfect argument but I feel the dust lies somewhere in the middle. Should playtesters be allowed to play in events? Of course. Should everyone be allowed to play an army so close to a book dropping at an event? Well thats where we find this balance I think. Make it 2-3 weeks after a full army is release and then everyone has had fair game to design lists and counter play them. So I think its on the TO's to mitigate this whole thing, whether you get an advantage or not becomes irrelevant when we all have time to build our lists and get some practice. As an aside I have played Team England twice at 6 nations and played plenty of the old and current English players at events. From the guys I have played and meeting some, you can tell they are good at the game and even looking at my batshit crazy lists they can piece together a plan in their heads so the top players do invalidate my arguments. Like I said though there is a bit of meeting in the middle here, most of the guys I met I got on pretty well with. Playtesters are good for the game and we can get rid of any advantage real or not by adding one or 2 weeks to the cut off points on new books or the fully released new armies.
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