Beer & Pretzels Gamer

Taken at beginning of Crossroads GT. Some of this is the summoning table but took picture because hadn’t seen anyone lean that hard into the Cockatrice and Chimera aspect. Dragon Ogors the other key component.

Everyday's a good day to take your Sons to War! The finished army. Could spend hours doing more details and fixing my mistakes but in the end satisfied with how they look. Back from the tournament after going 3-2 with both losses coming in “family feuds” (nothing like starting off a tournament with back-to-back mirror matches…). Lost my opening match of Power Struggle to the Stompers due to a bad decision in R3 when I chose Slay the Warlord as my tactic instead of choosing Bring it Down on one of the remaining solo Mancrushers. Once I’d made that mistake felt I had to commit the resources to trying achieve it which meant too much if my resources went into a task probability suggested wasn’t highly likely to work and didn’t. So when I came up short I not only fell the three VP behind but that meant they had the solo Mancrushers to retreat out of combat and steal objectives and complete tactics. That pushed me into riskier strategies in R4 that resulted in getting tabled. A tough loss but one I could learn from. Trying to Slay that Warlord cost me this game… The second match was The Vice, which I would’ve felt pretty great about against almost anything but Sons (admittedly not the 4 Fox LRL list at the tournament…). As it was I was up against a 4 mega two Kraken-eater Taker Tribe. When my opponent dropped all their units on the back line, 3 on one side and the non-general KE in the other, I decided on a plan to move up my KE and WS to block off the middle where the final objective would be, taking advantage of some “deadly” terrain as modest discouragement to trying to flank around the side, while ferociously advancing my Gatebreaker and two Mancrushers right at the basic KE. With a deep deployment they didn’t move from in their first turn except with the solo KE I had a good plan… dice didn’t cooperate but it was still a good plan. Really everything went to plan as far as movement, initiative and charges with my scoring the Hold More in R2 with three objectives and positioning the two other Megas such that when combat was engaged in R4 my opponent couldn’t contest without taking one or both down. Close may count in horseshoes or hand grenades but not in AoS. 1 wound shy was a Gargant sized swing in this battle of attrition… What didn’t go right was the dice. In R2 getting the double as mentioned saw my Gatebreaker and two Mancrushers charge right into the KE, doing a lot of damage. I should’ve been able to finish the KE off, even after my Opponent’s GB joined the fracas but I came up 1 wound shy, which allowed them to Feral Roar (I’d roared the GB and Titanic Dueled the KE) when they activated, doing good damage. Then I got doubled allowing , after my Roar failed, the KE to be Feral Roared again and attack first before it finally went down. This was about a 20 Wound swing in a battle of attrition, that would see my GB fall in my turn R3, so even though I got Held More again in R3 having burned the other objective in my opponent’s territory I was now in a deficit with my two remaining Megas and a Mancrusher against my opponent’s three remaining Megas only two of which were lightly wounded. I’d lose that battle of attrition, missing out on a couple of secondaries negating my hold more advantage, and again be tabled in the final round. Even with losses was having a lot of fun against good opponents and learnings a lot about the army by seeing very different style lists being played. My other three matches were against Khorne (two Bloodthirsters and a whole bunch of Mortals), Gristelgore FEC, and Boulderhead BCR. Against Khorne in Marking Territory my opponent overloaded the NW with the mortals so I basically rotated the board counter clockwise with my KE kicking the objective SE, while my Mancrushers pinned the units in the middle and I advanced WS and GB towards the Bloodthirsters in NE. When I won initiative I R3 was able to choose to go second, burn the objective in NW, while waltzing onto the one in the NE having cleared the Bloodthirster in my opponent’s turn. Had I lost initiative would’ve needed some Longshanks shenanigans and to deal with a summoned Bloodthirster but things went my way so all good. WS in position to take NE objective once that Bloodthirster taken care of. The game of keep away continued as after three rounds of chasing me my opponent was finally in position to attempt multiple charges… all of which failed. Against FEC my opponent Had my go first in First Blood so I marched onto the objectives preparing to get slammed… only to have them choose to Ferociously Advance with 3 out of their 4 RTs, including the 2 AGKonRTs so they couldn’t charge. They got the double so they would get to charge next turn but really felt they’d wasted a turn of damage dealing when they really could’ve picked a target and focus fired to take out a Mega. Instead in R2 they split 2/2 against my KE & a Mancrusher in the SE and my WS in middle. From there it was all downhill for FEC and they continued to prioritize tactics over primary VP (e.g. using their summons for Savage Spearhead but then putting the Flayers in the corner so they had zero chance at a charge until after I’d wiped out all the RTs). And… we’re just gonna engage in a truly epic staring contest I guess? That’s more like it. But too little too late for my opponent. I’m far from a 3.0 expert but I am familiar with FEC I did try and talk to him once the game was all but over about how he could adjust how he played if he wanted to stick with Gristelgore but also talked to him about how he could switch thing# around, mainly with what he already had, to play a more competitive Blisterskin list. Final match was Savage Gains and this time I went Clockwise, having my KE kick & follow the objective NW while ferociously advancing my GB and two Mancrushers go straight N to the W objective while WS claimed the E objective in a very lonely jog. When it became clear my opponent was going to move all four Stonehorns (2 FLOSH, 2 SHBR) to take the Eastern objective I used Finest Hour in the WS to at least give him something to think about when charging. It worked so while they took the VP when I won the initiative I had a fully healthy WS that could saunter to the W and attack the SHBR on the far flank instead of facing 4 activations. More importantly I now only had 2x Mournfang and a Huskard on Thundertusk between me and 4 VP for their primary objective. KE, after another good kick to the NW of my former primary objective, and a Mancrusher were able to get into it. We’d have some good fights after that but I was just banking too many VP and by R4 I’d table my opponent. Another epic stare down… The Huskard’s perspective as Kraken-eater and Kraken-snacked prepared to charge… Overall had a great time. Favorite Moments? - Winning R3 initiative against Khorne thanks to a 1-1 tie. I am notorious for losing initiative rolls in casual games. I once went three games in a row without winning a single one, including one game I never rolled higher than a 2. But my last two tournaments I’ve done good to great with them. But to win an initiative that handed me the game with a one. Felt “epic” given my history. - Against FEC his super up AGKonRT finally did come in and took my KE to 34 Wounds. He fought back, killing the AGKonRT… to then die to the bat explosion! - The move block working in the Vice with Longshanks not in play for charges meaning the terrain meant they just couldn’t get far enough around the flank leaving one mega 1/4” out and the other 1/2” out after pile in so even when one of my Megas went down I held it for one more turn. Still lost but the dice rolls are what they are so nice when something you can control works. - EVERYTHING about my game against BCR. NOT because it was my biggest win of the tournament but because I was playing against another narrative nerd and the stories we were telling each other about the fights on the table were everything I could ask for. Narrative a huge part of game for me but I don’t expect to be indulged at a tournament, nonetheless game 5 when my opponent is losing big. But he went all out with his descriptions. THANK YOU!!! Oh the stories that were told of this battle (while in progress). Biggest Disappointment - Gosh Darn it All I really want to stuff someone in me bag. Played five games and only got a few chances in the Khorne game, all of which failed. It is a set of abilities I love but never really get to take advantage of. Can’t believe I went a whole tournament w/out doing it…

Open this weekend with a Mirror Match. My Taker Tribe will be facing a Stomper Tribe with a Warstomper, Gatebreaker, Mob and three solo Mancrushers. Taker helps with the Mirror on bodies. If I can break up the Mob at least head-to-head I control the objective. But as Stomper the tribe I have zero experience with, and haven’t played any mirrors yet, thought it worth reaching out to see what people would do on either side of this “Family Feud”. My list for the tournament this weekend: Allegiance: Sons of Behemat- Tribe: Taker Tribe- Grand Strategy: Beast Master- Triumphs: LeadersKraken-eater Mega-Gargant (490)*- General- Command Trait: Very Acquisitive - Krakenskin Sandals - Artefact: Glowy Lantern - Universal Spell Lore: Flaming WeaponGatebreaker Mega-Gargant (525)**- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)Warstomper Mega-Gargant (470)Battleline1 x Mancrusher Gargants (170)1 x Mancrusher Gargants (170)1 x Mancrusher Gargants (170)Core Battalions*Bosses of the Stomp - Magnificent**Footsloggas - UnifiedTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 0 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 141Drops: 6

Does anyone know how tournaments are handling Taker Tribe’s triumph for killing an enemy model with an Artefact now that GW not numbering them?

Got in another 3.0 game with my Sons today. I’m far from a tournament regular but in general (play 2-3 a year normal times) I like to have played the army I’m going to play at least twice as many times pre-tournament as games which will be in tournament. Preferably at least half of those with my list in close to it’s finished form. Given this my first tournament of a new edition would like to be at it above that. But with the tournament rushing up I might not even be equal to the five games for the tournament before I pack things up and head to the hotel… Apologies in advance I guess to my opponents that I might not be giving you the best game. Fortunately Sons at least plays fast… I will go with the common sense of making my Footsloggas unified to try to claim priority. But it’s too late to change the models in the list up so I can’t drop the Mancrushers. I still like having them in my army, don’t get me wrong. But the games I have played have highlighted how they set up my opponent for VPs. With Predators & Prey my opponent should have a good shot at 5 VP if the game goes the distance. Broken Ranks and Bring it Down! also seem almost givens as Battle Tactics against my list adding another 4-6 VPs to my opponent’s score card. Now bonus VP for battle tactics swing our way too but I’m wracking my brain to either come up with ways (again besides dropping the Mancrushers as it’s too late for that) to offset this. From those with more games in bank any thoughts? Am I overthinking this?

Clicked on link and list looks like one of each plus three Mancrushers (makes me feel a little better) but couldn’t see actual list. Do we know specific kit out?

I’m low conviction on this. Having that free Charge reroll (I always seem to need them…) vs. trying to under drop with 3 drops is uncertain to me given too few games to figure out how many times 3 will win it for me.

@Lord Krungharr I’m leaning Taker Tribe as well. Hard to give up those +1 to Hit from Breaker but the extra Artefact and having at least the pretense of an unbind as well as Mystic Shield on top of the extra body count winning me over at moment. Not going the all Megas route though as just can’t comfortably give up on the utility of those Mancrushers (though I do worry they’ll bleed some VP to my opponents…). Allegiance: Sons of Behemat- Tribe: Taker Tribe- Grand Strategy: Beast Master- Triumphs: LeadersKraken-eater Mega-Gargant (490)*- General- Command Trait: Very Acquisitive - Krakenskin Sandals - Artefact: Glowy Lantern - Universal Spell Lore: Flaming WeaponWarstomper Mega-Gargant (470)*Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant (525)**- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)Battleline1 x Mancrusher Gargants (170)**1 x Mancrusher Gargants (170)**1 x Mancrusher Gargants (170)**Core Battalions*Bosses of the Stomp - Magnificent**Footsloggas - SwiftTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 0 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 141Drops: 6

Thanks for the follow up as means either take second Kraken-eater (instead of Warstomper?), double-dip with the one Kraken-eater on Artefacts, or rely on the Universal Artefacts. Biased, if I go 3 Artefact route, to the latter two. And thank you for clarification on lore spell as well.

Played first game last night though still uncertain if the list I used for my Sons was compliant given my uncertainty around the White Dwarf battalions and what Artefacts and Lore Spells are allowed. Taker Tribe Beast Master Grand Strategy Magnificent Bosses of the Stomp Battalion Kraken-eater General w/Very Acquisitive CT and Glowy Lantern Artefact & Flaming Sword Lore Spell (again, not sure if that requires an extra enhancement I do not have… but never used preferring Mystic Shield throughout game) Warstomper w/Amulet of Destiny Artefact Swift Footsloggas Battalion Gatebreaker w/Portcullis Artefact (one I was most uncertain if I could take if not in Breaker Tribe… but again, not much of a factor as saw the least combat) We played Savage Gain Battleplan. My opponent was running a FLoSH, HoTT, 2x SHBR, 2x2 Mournfang a Butcher and an Icebrow Hunter. Not an optimized list but lots of utility and plenty of punch. I chose to go first and right off the bat made a 3.0 mistake in failing to declare my battle tactic. Had chosen to go first to get the claim objectives one but yeah, live & learn. But basic strategy was to throw Stomper w/Amulet fwd and force my opponent to fight him, hoping that by the time he fell their force would be depleted enough. Basically went to plan though my Mancrusher failing two charge rolls of 3” to rush into the gap he left (by which time the FLoSH was where the SHBRs are above…) made it a little more interesting. Kraken-eater vs FLoSH became very interesting when we both had loaded up on buffs in R3 that effectively cancelled each other out but I came out slightly better for it and with more wounds to spare finished it off the next turn when neither of us was nearly as buffed. We’d ended R2 tied 10-10 but by end of R3 I was up handily and my opponent conceded with no path to victory and only their Butcher between my Gatebreaker and the high scoring objective on their border. So plenty of mistakes made and, as noted, still a lot o& uncertainty regarding the list compliance but got a decent feel for new rules and really like how Sons play in them.

While I wait for my own answers will try and help with this one. The “core” of the model (think body & limbs) is shared and there is tons left over from the other two options once you’ve chosen your build (great fun for kitbashing other models). The shared body means you could certainly try a headswap or a hand swap here or there to mix it up but given how closely associated each head and weapon choice is with a specific warscroll you may have to do “something” to help your opponent distinguish the headswapped model, for example, as still being a Kraken-eater. Thus could be as simple as green stuff to change hair. I can definitely picture converting the warstomper head into a preset classic Poseidon look with green stuff for example. Best of luck and post pictures with what you try.

Good news…. Get to play 3.0 for first time tonight with my Sons. Bad news… Still struggling to wrap my head around the last building mechanics especially in relation to some of this new stuff. The unit choice for the list I’m pretty comfortable with. Kraken-eater Gatebreaker Warstomper 1x Mancrusher 1x Mancrusher 1x Mancrusher prior to new SoB battalion announcement my basic idea was to run Taker tribe to get access to Very Acquisitive CT and thus access to the Amulet (I’d read it the same as @Scurvydog that I had to take the first Artefact from tribe, as similar to Soulblight the multiple options for each sub-faction seems to be way 3.0 going to go… guess we’ll see with SCE and Warclans tomes soon…). If I understand the leek correctly I could now take a Magnificent Bosses of the Stomp to get an additional Artefact. That could allow me to go back to Breaker Tribe w/Exteme Loathing and go Portcullis + Amulet. Really liked those +1s in Combat Phase… Or I can stick with Taker and add some magic to my list with Glowy Lantern + Amulet. The question them is do I have to use the extra enhancement to get Flaming Sword or once my Kraken-Eater is a Wizard can he take it as his lore spell basic enhancement and I could use that extra enhancement on something else. Apologies for confusion but given Sons uniqueness for whatever reason my brain locking up on them as I try and move to new rules…

My initial impression is that the glass half full re:game time is that once people become familiar with the battle tactics the definite increase in decision points created by new 3.0 rules will be offset by increased “path dependency”. All of which is a complicated way of saying if you’ve picked “Slay the Warlord” that turn than your choice for your Heroic Actions and Monstrous Rampages (nonetheless your good old fashioned, move, shoot and charge) will be those best suited to achieving this. The underlying condition to this though would be that secondaries are ultimately complimentary to the primary objective scoring. I think this could very well prove to be the case given their variety. When I think of slow games in 2.0 a common culprit was opponents struggling with difficult prioritization. They’d try to set up too much and then struggle to react when step B in a five step plan (that itself was only one of three plans they’d made for that turn) fell through. That’s when analysis paralysis would really kick in. Once we’re all familiar with the secondaries and the battle plans there is an optimistic case to be made that priorities should be a lot clearer, improving focus & planning. At least I hope…

Been a minute but finally had our goodbye to 2.0 tournament a couple weekends ago. My Sons list went 2-1. Went with Gatebreaker General, Kraken-Eater, 3x Mancrushers, 3 units of 1x Mancrushers. Lost my first match (Shifting Objectives) to an IDK Domhain which gave them a lot of bonuses against Monsters. Could’ve done a little better with my target selection but this one was gonna be uphill battle for me regardless. Won Battle for the Pass against a Squig list. Took more tries than I would’ve liked but eventually got the objective out of my territory. Bigger gain was when I was able to push onto objective in their territory. Snuck out a win against Archaon Slaanesh in Blades Edge. They made a mistake in over committing to “East” edge with all their heroes and the Fane. I sacrificed my Gatebreaker and 3x block to hold them up there long enough and made hay in the middle and West. By final round when I won initiative I could choose to go second and not leave enough VP available to my opponent to win. Think I got really lucky here with an opponent off their game a little at tournament’s end. All in was very happy with the list but… of course that list is now 15 points too expensive to run in 3.0 where I have a tournament in September. Trying to get motivated to paint after all the fun kitbashing the Mancrushers but struggling to switch gears to a new list. Thinking I’ll drop the Mancrusher Mob for a Warstomper as I like having extra bodies but despite better than expected outcome in my first run with Sons and their only getting better in 3.0 feeling a bit lost in what should be a simple list recalibration…

First 2k+ point army I bought was a beautifully painted Swifthawk Agents army. Was just getting back into game after failing to ever finish the Battle at the Pass starter set. Had downloaded the app and free rules. Read through pretty much every war scroll looking for the mobile but shooty list I was going for. Hunted eBay until I found something I loved. 9 months later they got the squat. Hadn’t picked up on that whole battletome thing… fortunately the “Vs” army I’d picked up was Ogors and I’ve since become a huge Mawtribes fan. While still in the process got a “great deal” on the Execution Herd in Legion of Azgorh. Twice bitten I guess…

As someone who plays and plays against all the different Destruction factions there is some definite truth here. In 2.0 someone for Sons of Behemat, for example, rapidly put out a convenient chart of all the possible builds (there weren’t many) and most people quickly gravitated to one or two. Not much to discuss. Other Destruction factions may not be as straight forward but with the possible exception of GSG neither are they that complex. This isn’t to say they only offer one or two list options but rather that if you know what “style” you want to play a Mawtribes or a Warclans list falls pretty quickly into place. How much time can you spend debating three good options for the last 100-200 points? To the extent that Kruelboyz need their tome before any of us can get that serious about our lists it is that history that is in the back of our minds. Maybe they’ll make Warclans more like GSG but until we know chances are once Destruction players see the tome we’ll “solve” pretty quickly and until then it’s efficient to wait. Again, I’m not sure Dominion has actually disappointed sales wise but I am very open to idea that box composition much weaker than Indomitus.

eBay the obvious answer but again, since SCE are NOT Space Marines the secondary market going to be weak as most SCE players who want her would have already gotten her. So when I was considering two I was looking into kitbashing an Azyros or Venator… EDIT: hobgrots proved the killer in that sense. But without new tome also tough to determine if Yndrasta plus Azyros or Venator a good combo.

This gets to a broad issue where I’m disappointed 3.0 seems to be still starting off on the same wrong foot that 2.0 regularly stumbled in which is a lack of an overarching design philosophy. On several threads I’ve defended GW against accusations of certain negative business practices but a lot of it comes down to 20+ years of business analysis that says never assign to maliciousness what can better be assigned to normal corporate bureaucracy over process. 40k isn’t without faults but there really does seem to be an overarching design philosophy driving not just the products but their marketing and packaging (see Combat Patrols in 9e). AoS really seems to lack in this area.

I’m much less familiar with 40k (particularly list building, still working through that) but think the inclusion of a named character and, yes, non-battleline hobgrots, a mistake as it disincentivized buying two sets. You can’t play two Yndrastras and even those excited by Kruelboyz (count myself in that corner) seem to have little interest in hobgrots. (Their primary point of interest seems to be hints that Chaos Dwarfs are coming…) So add box composition to lack of a universal faction and a far tougher sales path than Indomitus. The real issue though (since they will eventually sell all these Dominion boxes) besides inventory costs is the opportunity cost of what sales they missed out on by not using the factory run time on other products?

From the sidelines (e.g. never really had difficulty finding GW stuff, picked up a copy of Indomitus almost a year later for less than GW’s original price, guess I got lucky and secured Cursed City w/out problems) it is fascinating to see the darned if you do darned if you don’t aspect to FOMO for the company. They finally produce enough sets that they don’t sell out and it’s all doom & gloom. Think many above have nailed it that there simply isn’t any equivalent to Space Marines ubiquity in AoS such that whether it was SCE, LRL, KO, CoS or Fyreslayers there was no way to tap into a universal seller for AoS. What I am most curious about though is whether this really is meant to be THE starter for AoS for a while or whether we’ll see the 2-3 starter sets that followed Indomitus for 40k. (I’m also very curious to see if we’ll get the Combat Patrol style sets with new tomes that 40k has gotten? But that’s another thread.) If starter sets are released while Dominion still readily available to me that a sign they missed sales expectations.

Know everyone moving on to 3.0 which is super exciting for Sons but need to submit my list for a good bye to 2.0 ten player, three round tournament on Friday. Other armies likely to be Nurgle (2x), Slaanesh 2x, SCE, IDK, Mawtribes (BCR centered), Squigs GSG, and either Seraphon or Soulblight. I’ve got in three short games with Sons and feel pretty good about 3/1/1/1 Mancrusher foundation. Think Breaker Tribe bonuses can make a difference and Gatebreaker has definitely shown through. Tough call is on the second Mega. Tempted to just go with another Gatebreaker and go all in with the Fierce Loathings (either Shiny Uns or Bossy). Allegiance: Sons of Behemat- Tribe: Breaker Tribe (Fierce Loathing: Shiny 'Uns)LeadersGatebreaker Mega-Gargant (490)- General- Command Trait: Extremely Bitter - Bossy Pants and Clever Clogs - Artefact: Enchanted Portcullis Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant (490)Battleline3 x Mancrusher Gargants (480)1 x Mancrusher Gargants (180)1 x Mancrusher Gargants (180)1 x Mancrusher Gargants (180)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 142 But while I haven’t gotten to really use them yet the Kraken-Eater’s objective Shenanigans just seem too good to pass up. Three games obviously a very limited data set to draw from but from reading this thread for a while those two options both seem valid.

As a fellow beer & pretzels game good luck and gods speed. Played my first live game in over a year this weekend. Was teaching a new player how to play (2.0) and they’d chosen Slaanesh as their army to be able to play both 40k & AoS. Had a great time. But the prospect of live games got me most excited about being able to play games that are NOT AoS. Thanks to Zoom League over the last year I’ve played more AoS than ever. 3.0 leans into what I like (elites and monsters) so I’ll keep playing but… What I’m really excited to play when our game group gets back together is not AoS 3.0. It is Scythe. Or Wings of Glory. Or any of the dozens of other games that just didn’t translate to Zoom like AoS, Mysterium and Nine Tile Panic did. So I truly hope you have a blast with Dystopian Wars 2.0 and discover other great games. Because gaming should be incredibly fun. In my experience AoS absolutely can be. But if it’s not for you, or at least not right now, than we’re all blessed to be living through a gaming renaissance. Fully respect if this is your true sign off. But if you do find another great game please feel free to pop back by and let us know. I’m always looking for recommendations!

Just going by U.S. Fair enough Troggoth Hag here has gone in and out of stock a lot lately. But will keep my fingers crossed for points as I’d love to get mine on table in 3.0!

I’ll be thrilled to be wrong. And he’s only listed as Temporarily Out of Stock. Just been bit enough by FW squats to be cautious at this point.

Crossing my fingers given how fun Pebbles is but unless they’re doing a separate FW points update I’m worried he’s shuffled off to Legends.