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Beer & Pretzels Gamer

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Everything posted by Beer & Pretzels Gamer

  1. Haha. YUP! Both times I’ve managed to summon a Bloodthirster it was an act of desperation when I was down pretty bad. And on abilities or the other side of the Blood Tithe table handed my Khorne Mortals over to a friend a couple weekends ago for a narrative game. He used the auto unbind three rounds in a row to stop my Butcher’s Voracious Maw from going off. Given its damage potential that was big. So absolutely focus more on what the ebbs and flows of the game give you then getting locked in at the beginning of the game on summoning X or Y. (Especially if that X or Y costs 8 Bloodtithe...)
  2. Think @Reuben Parker covered the basics very well. Only thing I’d really add is because you can’t “Save” Blood Tithe it is worth considering what covers each summoning “tier”. Bloodletters are your most diverse at 2,4,6 & 7 and with 20x you’ve covered your bases there (assuming a single summons) Bloodthirsters great if you’re “maxxed out” (8+) By the time you can summon one though it’s usually going to be late in the game so if you’re only taking one with you (not unreasonable given their $$$ cost) think about which one is going to be most helpful at that stage. Flesh Hounds are at 3 and 6 and again, 10x covers you there Your missing number then is 5 which is either Bloodcrushers or Skullcannon. Given the general lack of a Shooting the latter might confound your opponent’s initial strategy if all of a sudden you can pick off some back line support Heroes. ...of course this only matters if you’ll feel regret at “wasting” blood tithe. In general best to focus on your in game needs, with patience if possible. On that a final note, since you’re Summoning at end of Movement Phase worth taking that into account as regards some of your Hero Phase abilities. It might look like a waste Blood Boiling the last model or two of a unit instead of going after a higher value target but if it gets you the extra Blood Tithe to get you the most helpful summons (e.g. it’s a pretty big upgrade imo to go from the 5 letters to the 5 Flesh Hounds).
  3. Thanks. Read through as many rules and FAQs as I can but, to your point, sometimes struggle with “extras” like Malign Sorcery. Original confusion comes from new tome which only lists Troggoths and Aleguzzler Gargants. But wasn’t sure if they ever listed stuff like Fungoid...
  4. Thank you for the quick response. Disappointing. Liked that little guy...
  5. Quick question. Is the Fungoid Cave Shaman still an eligible ally? WSBuilder and Azyr give different answers.
  6. Yup. Same here. Gutbusters were one of my first armies (the other was Swifthawk Agents... I clearly really didn’t initially grasp the importance of tomes) but after a few narrative games they got set aside and I switched to BCR. Had a good run with them but learned how limiting the 1.0 tomes were and began exploring a lot of different armies like FEC and Khorne (while waiting for 2.0 tomes to try out KO and TZ). Was thrilled then to get this new tome that had both Gutbusters and BCR. Similarly thought I’d be running balanced list but Bloodgullet pulled me really hard back into Gutbusters side. Really happy there and still feel like I’ve barely scratched the surface. Just struggling to get back into BCR. Truthfully if all I get out of this tome is Gutbusters lists (with cameos by the FLoSH) I will be perfectly content and it will balance things out. But you’ve got me back tinkering with double FLoSH Skal lists...
  7. Eurlbad is probably the battalion I’ve been most interested in as I agree the extra MWs are better than a one time variable movement bonus. But gets to the heart of where I struggle with the battalions because NO FLoSH! As fond of Braggoth as I might have been the new FLoSH is indisputably better from the counts as 10 to the mount traits and on. Love the FLoSH. Love the idea of running two of them. And thank you very much for the ideas on how to make two FLoSH even more awesome! But outside of the Alfrostun (for which I am eagerly awaiting an AoS Apocalypse-style rule set to better manage these massive games, having run enough at 8K+ total points to know how unwieldy they can become) none of the battalions now start with a FLoSH the way good old Beast Hammer did. Fine to let go of the past but in an expensive an army as BCR having all of the Behemoth-centric battalions requiring you to take a Huskard instead of a Frostlord is no small thing. Now with the loss of the old snowball you almost certainly want to take the HoSH... except that means you lose the PRIEST aspect too. Fair enough this is a priest w/out a native unbind and/dispell but still, that is another factor to consider. There are definite positives in that all three of the Behemoth battalions fulfill your battleline requirements. So at least having spent a little more than half your points you are at least free to pick and choose from there. Of course going the two FLoSH will eat up most of what’s left. And if all I was looking for from the old Thundertusk Snowball was the MWs you’re absolutely right I can more than make up for them by going the direction you have suggested. Additionally I agree that it would also probably be quite a fun list to play a few times. But as much as I may miss the MWs from the old snowball what I truly miss is the way Braggoth’s Beast Hammer used to synergize. Now the Mournfang do seem to have been upgraded such that I won’t miss the battalion buff but in my old list I essentially had two wings: - FLOSH, 2x Mournfang & 3x Gore Gruntas - Butcher (Gryph Feather helped him keep up), 2x Mournfang & 3x Gore Gruntas These provided me with a lot of flexibility whether it was going after objectives or gaining board control. Behind either of these wings I could put my artillery in the TBR. It was great for either opening up holes for one of the wings to charge through or softening up a tarpit that was trying to slowdown my FLoSH. And the combo of snowball and FLoSH left my opponent’s struggling over which to prioritize. Behind them I had my auxiliary. Typically I’d leave the Sabres with the Fungoid Cave Shaman to provide Lookout Sir until I got him up on the Balewind. the Yhetees were great for shenanigans with their 6” pile-in, especially with my opponents so often focused elsewhere. Will never forget getting to the third round of the round robin tournament I took them to and having my Nurgle opponent put their entire army, including three GUOs and multiple units of PBKs all on his back line because he was so worried about both my first round charges and shooting that he wanted to wait and see what I’d do before committing his forces. Allowed me to take control of objectives and win on VP a match I probably should have lost just comparing the two lists side-by-side. But that was the type of flexibility I’d shown in prior matches against LoA and Sylvaneth. The key thing I am looking for in the new tome then isn’t just a way to replace the snowball, but rather a way to have the synergies and flexibility’s my old list had. Right now I find plenty of that in the Gutbusters side, especially as there is nothing preventing me from taking that awesome FLoSH as part of a Gutbuster centric list. As a result so often when I start to build a BCR focused list by the time I finish tweaking it is closer and closer to a Gutbuster list... There’s nothing wrong with going all out smash mouth once in a while. Or if that is your playing style absolutely more power too you and may your Ogors ever be feeding on your enemies! But in general I’m not an all or nothing style player. And in the end it is fine if the new BCR just cant give me what I want for regular play. Further, I do understand I’m just plowing paths in the above already well trodden & packed down earlier in this thread. But given how much fun I used to have with BCR I can’t help but hold out hope that I can find a way to have winter lightning strike again! Been playing around more with Skal given its low cost and help with Battlines. Will keep tweaking. Again thanks for the FLoSH advice as trying those out could free other things up elsewhere in the list if I can get the two of them to do very different things.
  8. Getting ready for Round 2 of our Khorne Narrative this weekend. Daemons struggled last time so we’ll see if this new list does a better job of generating Blood for the Blood God? Runs 2080 points but again, narrative so all about having fun. Will also be nice to try out the new Kharadron Overlords tome.
  9. Agree that the new tome has a lot to offer. Personally I’m finding more on the Gutbuster side (despite my frustration with the Leadbelchers...) to get excited about because I just haven’t warmed up to any of the BCR battalions. That may be because I have a special place for the old Braggoth’s Beast Hammer Battalion with which I won a small round robin tournament with. In that list I also had a Thundertusk Beastriders and with the old Thundertusk Snowball they were an awesome compliment to the Beast Hammer’s destruction. So the change to their warscroll was pretty disappointing to me. In combination I just haven’t found a BCR list I like nearly as much as my old one: Frostlord on Stonehorn (General) w/Pelt of Charngar and Massive Bulk Butcher w/Gryph Feather Charm Fungoid Cave-Shaman (ally) 2x Mournfang Pack 2x Mournfang Pack Thundertusk Beastriders 4x Frost Sabres 3x Icefall Yhetees 3x Gore Gruntas (battalion) 3x Gore Gruntas (battalion) Balewind Vortex Braggoth’s Beast Hammer Battalion I just haven’t found any combinations in new tome that give BCR all the characteristics I was getting out of this list using the old tome. Again, it’s clearly better overall. Just can’t help missing how fun that list was. Any recommendations from others?
  10. Acknowledging that I’ve been very biased towards a Bloodgullet in my own lists but as long as you’ve got those Ironblasters @Kramer is right you should probably go Underguts I would be putting the mandatory Gnoblar Blast Keg on the Tyrant, the Shrunken Priesthead on one of the Butchers and the Wizardflesh Apron on the other.
  11. Vs a more traditional SC box Feast of Bones a bit of a tough spot to start out with. Simply put, you’re going to need some Ironguts and yes, converting one of the Tyrants to a Butcher a good choice. But focusing on what you have you might as well start with the Tyrant’s Gutguard Battalion. Tyrant (160) 4x Ironguts (220) Ironblaster (120) Ironblaster (120) Battalion (120) Definitely not my favorite battalion but only requires you to buy 1 unit you don’t already have and gets you to 740 pts. Next you could try Butcher’s Band Battalion: Butcher (converted) (140) 4x Ironguts (220) 4x Leadbelchers (160) 12x Gluttons (400) Battalion (140 pts) So for the price of another box of Ironguts you’ve added 1060 more pts taking your army to 1800 if my mental math is accurate. Another butcher and an Endless spell and you can call it a day with all your battle line requirements taken care of. If I’m reading Website right you’ll be out ~$120 more. Not per se a top of the line list but takes advantage of everything you already have and is only three drops so depending on your local meta you could be fine to get started (and Gutbusters absolutely great to learn with). After a few games you’ll have a much better idea of what you want and with only a limited amount invested (and eBay to resell on) you have minimal opportunity cost to going a new direction. The other low cost alternative (and ignoring drops and Battalions for a moment is to buy the BCR SC box to add to what you have. Build as a Frostlord on Stonehorn. That will add 680 pts to your existing 1360. (Again all mental math at moment so apologies if off anywhere.). So drop 2x leadbelchers or 3x gluttons and tweak from there. This will give you some flavor of both sides, again at minimal cost. Play a few games and tweak as needed. But Ironguts probably your safest next purchase either way.
  12. Flesh Hounds (Blades of Khorne) Does FW still sell the old Nurgle Plague Toads?
  13. As silly as it sounds from a running lists of Monsters perspective Gitz actually has some fun options. I have a soft spot for seeing multiple Arachnarok Spiders on the table after all the fun our gaming group had with a narrative that involved them and a large swarm of their smaller Spider Rider brethren. Know some people who have a blast running the larger squigs. But clearly not an army meant to be all monsters which I think is what you’re looking for here.
  14. The AGKonRT summons Courtiers. So if you’re going hardcore Gristelgore you won’t get the ghouls. But unless you are truly go bug or go home chances are you’ll have an Archregent or basic AGK to get you the ghouls. So that’s where I think the break is. Can speak from experience that 2AGKonRT w/1 regular RT and 1 regular RZD, even with an Archregent , still left me scrambling for objectives if I didn’t clear huge chunks of my opponent’s army out early. But if you’re willing to have a foundation of Monsters balanced by a nice set of supports go FEC. But if you’re all in on Monsters and will only take support to fill out spare points than that 10x may be your saving grace.
  15. Having both FEC Gristelgore and BCR-based armies in our gaming group I would lean towards the former as well. When a HERO (AGKonRT) think the Terrirgheist wins hands down over even the mighty Frostlord on Stonehorn because of magic AND summoning. The ability to run them w/out riders is compelling as well and I do feel RT wins over Stonehorn Beastriders. Pre-changes to their “snowball” probably would’ve taken Thundertusk over RZD. Now? Maybe not. But with BCR Behemoths counting as 10 models arguably if you want an all Monster all the time army you’re almost forced to go BCR to have a chance at being competitive in objective based games.
  16. I get what they ARE. They just aren’t, as written, what I want them to be based on their aesthetic. A good example of the disconnect between the aesthetic and the reality cane when we brought them out to try out their new tome as part of our new narrative cycle. There were two lonely LBs trying to hold down a flank after the Skullcrushers had charged in walling off one unit of Ironguts and on the other side well buffed 40x Reavers had tied up the other block of Ironguts. Things weren’t looking good for Bloodgullet! But then the Khorne player (who again, hadn’t gone up against the new tome at all and thus didn’t know their WS) hesitated to move his Bloodwarriors and Mighty Lord Khorne up because he was worried I’d be able to snipe his HERO on my upcoming turn if he failed a long charge. They just look that dangerous. Once he realized what the actual probable damage output of them was he was pissed off that he didn’t go for it (costing himself potential VP in a very close game). So yeah, in match play despite having better melee options in Ironguts I do basically treat them as upgraded Gluttons. But I am fortunate to have a good narrative gaming group so I don’t have to just settle for what they are. And rather than just rewrite the LB scroll think a LB hero (to be named Leadbelly of course) way to go in that context. Thanks for the ideas in that direction. I do like the idea of a specific ability/aura and a separate CA fir the LBs.
  17. So I think I’ve attached the picture below of the basic set up for a narrative game our group will be playing in the next week or two. The match will be a Khorne Mortals vs Sylvaneth. The Sylvaneth have tricked the Khorne army into splitting in half with the Cavalry now on one side of the Awakened Wyldwood line and the Infantry on the other before sprinting their trap. The objective for Khorne is to reunite their army by getting 2/3 of their units (and leaders) on one side or the other before more than 50% of their army (measured by Wounds) is lost. The Sylvaneth objective is to destroy one side of the army completely. Given it is narrative I don’t have to be as worried about perfect balance (particularly as this match is part of a larger narrative) but thought it was a good example of a battleplan I’d want to see in regular match play if I could find a way to balance it.
  18. Gutbusters were my first army. The Leadbelcher remains one of my favorite models. Just love the aesthetic. I also love the idea of these cannons stuffed with battlefield detritus blasting away at the enemy only to be turned around and used as giant clubs to bash their opponent’s head in. Love, love, love it. What I don’t love us the actual War Scroll. 12”/d3/4+/3+/-1/1 just doesn’t match what I want to get out of these units in the Shooting Phase. I’ve actually been much happier with their 1”/2/3+/3+-1/2 melee profile. The issue with their Shooting is compounded by the lack of options to substantively buff it. Sure you can 3xtend the range but that’s not been my issue. What they need, in my opinion, is a Hero that can buff them. I am in the process of kit bashing one to use in my narrative games. Have some ideas as to what buff I want but thought I’d reach out on this thread to see if there are other better ideas?
  19. From a narrative perspective would say Round One went “half right”. Khorne Mortals vs Bloodgullet Mawtribe was one of the most fun and balanced games our group has played. The game shifted back-and-forth over five rounds with Mawtribes ahead on victory points but Khorne Mortals wracking up an incredibly high Wound total for their Blood for the Blood God score. As a result both players were very happy. On the other table unfortunately Khorne Daemons vs Boulderhead Mawtribe was just one of those matches that went off the rails. The BCR player had a great R1 and took out some key pieces early which left the Daemons player struggling. They degraded all for of the Behemoths significantly but they were never in a position to concentrate their firepower and finish them off. As a result the Blood for the Blood God score is very lopsided at moment with Mortals up 118 to 30. But we’ll tweak the Daemons list and see what happens next round when Daemons go up against the KO while the Mortals wander deeper into the forest and find themself in Sylvaneth territory.
  20. So the first round is finished and the Mortals have taken a decisive lead having taken 118 Wounds worth of Blood for the Blood God to the Daemons more paltry 30. Some bad luck for the Daemons for sure as they got caught out early losing their key Bloodthirster early to the Frostlord on Stonehorn and severely degrading but NOT killing (on the Wounds of killed models count to our score) all of the BCR behemoths. Don’t worry, we’ll be tweaking the list to bring in Mazarall the Butcher next round so let’s see if the Daemons can turn it around in Round 2. Can speak in more detail to the other battle between the Mortals and the Bloodgullet Mawtribe. Khorne won the initiative and had Ogors go first, smartly letting them largely waste their first round of spell casting but conceding the center objective to them. The Bloodreaver Deathstar did a lot of damage to the Ironguts in the middle, complimented by Blood Bind going off for a 6 and at the end of R1 things were looking good for Khorne, despite losing a lot of Reavers when they didn’t have the CP to avoid Battleshock. But in R2 Bloodgullet finally got their spells off and tied up the Skullcrushers with their 2nd unit of Ironguts while the few remaining Ironguts of the 1st unit held on. When the Ogors got their Tyrant, 2nd Butcher and 4x Unit if Leadbelchers into the Wrathmongers who had shifted to protect the flank they went down, dealing a lot of damage but opening up the flank. The biggest mistake for a Khorne was not getting the Bloodwarriors and Mighty Lord of Khorne into the action R3, which allowed the Mawtribe to hang on in what was becoming a battle of attrition in the center and on the opposite flank. But Blood Tithe rewards save the days shutting down Voracious Maw in Rs 3-5. Add in some cold rolling for Bloodgullet in R4&5 and slowly the tide turned back to Khorne. Not enough to fully close the VP gap which had opened when the Wrathmongers flank fell but enough so that Mawtribes only had 1 model left on the table at the end of R5. Given the individual games are less important to the narrative than the Blood Toll think the Mortals were very happy with their debut. Will Tweak a few things on this list too but looks pretty decent. Next time - the Mortals will enter the forest at the edge of this battlefield to face off against the Sylvaneth. Meanwhile the Duardin who were inside the Dispossessed stronghold the Daemons fought in front of will call in the KO to reopen the pass and clear out their Daemon Infestation (after the BCR continue their migration).
  21. As a side observation in my limited experience many of the non-symmetrical battleplans in the tomes can be made symmetrical. For example in the Khorne tome there is a battleplan where the opponent’s objective is to destroy the Skull Altar. In January we modified this for the second battle of a Khorne vs LoA Execution Herd narrative. As the latter doesn’t have its own faction terrain we swapped in a Herdstone (dedicated to Hashut of course!) so each side could have one. Used the 20 wounds, no Save for each from the original battleplan. For a little more flavor we also determined that the gods themselves had launched Endless Spells/Judgements at the other’s “temple” with Hashut sending a Wildfire Taurus straight at the Skull Altar and Khorne sending a Wrath Axe. Was a fun way to incorporate these models as we didn’t include them in the cost of the army, they couldn’t be dismissed, but they also only traveled in a straight line and when they hit their target they exploded. I have to believe we can do the reverse though to and find ways to provide balance in a battleplan with asymmetries. The “flavor” above may be one way as one of the issues with making the terrain a target is that the Damage going into that is NOT going into your opponent’s units. Effectively then the Defender gets a “free” extra 20 Wounds. Could these be balanced out with a free Predatory spell capable of dealing out an extra 20 wounds over the course of a game, even if some restrictions, as in the above, are placed on its use? Another potential insight from that game related to the placement of the objectives. We were playing with territories on the diagonal and the terrain pieces in back corner 12” from each edge. In hindsight this was a little too deep and reduced the probability of a major victory. If, then, only one of us was going after a terrain piece where that terrain piece is put could make a big difference to the balance. (I believe in the original battleplan the Skull Altar is dead center.)
  22. The other detail we are working out is the Blood Tithe. We’re stretching to get two full Khorne armies on table so our summoning bench (pre-Daemon army casualties) is WRATH, 10x Bloodletters, 10x Flesh Hounds (at least 5 of which we initially need to reserve for Karanak), 6x Bloodcrushers, and a Bloodmaster. So decent but if both players were looking to draw from it could easily see conflicting demands. Fortunately the nature of the bet is such that the Mortals shouldn’t want to be summoning Daemonic aid. So at least for tomorrow’s game no Summoning for the Goretide. For balance then we are thinking the Daemons should be prevented from using the Rewards table. Truthfully we haven’t used the Rewards Table as much as we’ve summoned so not sure how much balance that actually provides?
  23. Kicking off a Khorne based narrative cycle this weekend. Basic concept is that Bel’akor has stirred up trouble between the Daemon and Mortal sides of the Blades of Khorne. It is an argument that can only be settled by a contest to see which group can claim more blood for the blood god. From Khorne perspective after playing a lot of mixed lists lately it is an excuse to bulk out the units in order to be better able to field pure Daemon and pure Mortals lists. Enables us to try out some units we haven’t really seen much of on the table as well. The Daemons list is pretty simple: Tyrants of Blood Battalion w/RAGE, FURY and Skarbrand Murderhost w/Skulltaker and three units of Bloodletters (30-10-10) Karanak For Mortals we’re taking advantage of it being narrative to up the drops: Gore Pilgrims w/2x Slaughterpriests, Bloodsecrator, 40x Reavers, 5x Bloodwarriors & 5x Bloodwarriors 9x Skull Crushers 5x Wrathmongers Aspiring Deathbringer Mighty Lord of Khorne Chaos Lord on Karkadrak For the mortals we’re trying out a Reaver Deathstar of the 40x Reavers, Bloodsecrator, 5x Wrathmongers, Aspiring Deathbringer and Slaughterpriest w/Killing Frenzy to see if the aura bubbles can be managed to max the attacks and hit probabilities. The intent Is to play through three rounds with the Khorne winner getting to be the general of that side in the 8K blowoff finale. We’ll adjust each list each round (can’t wait to get Mazarall the Butcher out there). For the opposing armies the intent is to try out some new battletomes. So this weekend the Daemons will be going up against a BCR list while the Mortals will face off against Gutbusters to try out the new Mawtribes tome. Hoping the next round to try out the new KO tome. Biggest outstanding question is whether score should be kept with Skulls (# of models killed) or Blood (# of wounds from models killed)? Leaning towards the latter to even out facing different factions (e.g. BCR and KO likely to have lower model count then say Gutbusters or Sylvaneth...)
  24. Kicking off our next narrative cycle on Sunday. Basic premise is Bel’akor has created conflict in Khorne’s army between the Daemons and Mortals which can only be resolved by a contest to see which army can supply more skulls for the skull throne. Using this narrative to try out some new battletomes and we’re kicking off with Mawtribes as the Daemons will face off against BCR in the “Blood in the Snow Bowl” while the Mortals fight against the Gutbusters. For Khorne it is also about our group trying out some models we don’t normally see on the table. We’re particularly intrigued to see how the “Reaver Deathstar” performs. (40x Reavers, 5x Wrathmongers, Bloodsecrator, Aspiring Deathbringer and Slaughterpriest withKilling Frenzy). We’ll see how long they can maintain those aura bubbles. Intent is to go three Rounds to see which Khorne sub-faction provides more blood for the blood god. Winner gets to be that sides’ General during the final big 8k+ total points blow off battle.
  25. Same. Fortunate to have a great gaming group that’s into narrative and thus down for stuff like that. We’ll kick off or next narrative cycle this weekend. But it isn’t just an AoS gaming group and a lot of the time we have more players than can comfortably play AoS so we’ll switch to a board game like Scythe or even something like Wings of War. And again the other downside is that playing these type of games only in my gaming group means playing a limited number of factions. If I want to play against Fyreslayers, or IDK, or DoK, or Slaanesh, or Gitz, or myriad other armies I have to expand my play out to the larger local gaming community... which almost inevitably means match play. Again, not end of the world and realize I’m lucky to have 3-4 other players who are usually down for narrative/asymmetrical but given how much fun w have can’t help but wish there was a better way to bring it out to the larger local gaming community. Hence this thread...
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