LuminethMage

They changed the ability of the Warscroll Batallion “Alarith Temple” from re-rolling saves to +1 to save. That’s the Stoneskin ability, I think you mix it up with Enduring as Rock, which is the -1 rend Alarith ability and stayed the same as it was.

If this holds, LRL would be in a really good spot. Several build being able to have 3:2 and 4:1s, that makes for a good book. I also really liked the idea with the 2 Mountain Spirits and block of 30 Warden in Alumnia from Matthew in the THW show. Run & charge for your Mountains 😍

Nice something different.

1,000 points games aren't always balanced. Your list seems good to me. Although maybe the WM isn't worth it, how often will you get that 8 cast actually off? Another spell could do more for you if you want to stick with the WM. But it's a good spell, so not saying you do something wrong there. Not sure if it worked points-wise but otherwise a unit of 5 BL might do more for you. Depends on your opponent's list. I don't think Helon is the best option for you, it buffs basically one unit under specific conditions, and one which a SBL player has a lot of options to throw a wrench into what you are aiming for. Especially if he is a good player, and you pick Helon - it's not really difficult to figure out what you want to do when you have one shooting unit on the table. Probably Syar, Zaitrec (if you really want to get those 8 spells cast), Alumnia or Iliatha will do more for you. Except if you aim to utilize the Helon CA in some kind of interesting way - I doubt many people have experienced that already, so that could surprise some people. Hard to say more until we know what kind of SBL list you faced.

I think if you play Zaitrec, 2 ES are great. I've tried Cogs and the spell enhancement in Zaitrec (which is pretty hilarious), Lifeswarm which was awesome and the Burning Head, which was just for fun because I had the points (forgot mostly to use it in the end). In a Teclis list I might only take one because of points, but Spellportal, Lifeswarm, Shackels, rune of Petrification all seem really good there for sure. I haven't used Spellportal in 3, but as it's basically the same as in 2, it's still really good, especially in Teclis lists. I don't know if the Portal is OP, SWL is pretty swingy, and there are similar abilities now in several factions. But you could always do something different (like take a Loreseeker, and try something fun with that together with Teclis instead of a Portal). Shackels - I still haven't tried this for the same reasons. I would only start to include it if I feel like I have no other choice to stay in the game in my local group. Especially because I use several control spells already in my Zaitrec list and also don't want to go over the top with these. Rune is very powerful. Especially if you use it with Teclis together. It's also expensive. If you feel that shackles does too much, but want some control in your list that might be a good compromise. I've only used it in AoS 2 though, but it was very good (another quite difficult to cast spell though, so if you don't use Teclis might betting a bit too much on your look : ) ). Nice job with the names, I haven't even thought about that. @HanShot First I don't think we have any credible rumours yet. The only one I'm aware off is this one (1d4 Chan): That's probably the one you meant. And easy to verify - just look if the next 4 books after SCE/Orruks are really Maggotkin, CoS, Ogors and BoC. : )

Finally finished. Back to some smaller units. But those models are really well made.

Thank you, that's very nice to say. I don't think so, and also I'm not a big tournament player or anything like that. But I still hope sometimes it helps a bit : ) SG's Warscroll is not great as you know - because of the 1" reach, 32mil base, and slow movement (although the smaller board and how the battle plans are done helps a bit there). I'd normally not put everyone in 10s, just maybe one unit as a big anvil/block. The rest probably would be 5s. If you go with like 20. If it's 15, I don't know, maybe 3 x 5 is better than 1 x 5 and 1 x 10? Depends a bit on the rest of your army. I think you could make both work , I might be a bit partial to MSU because I play Zaitrec all the time. Probably something you'd have to test. I have only played three actual games with Alarith, so I don't have a huge experience with them. I just felt always ok, hitting stuff with your big monsters is fun, and think you can play them pretty successfully if you really like them. Av and the Spirit are great (albeit a bit swingy, like 90% of the monsters), and with the hero healing (Avalenor) and Lifeswarm you can keep them alive better than before. 3+ save in this edition is just rock solid : ). If they don't change that, these two are good, except against super heavy MW output. But again, that hurts most of our lists, and I don't think we have build that's good against everything. I think this is the edition/GHB to try out Alarith/Ymetrica if you like them. Just add a bit of speed to your list (like Speed of Hysh or Dawnriders) and you should have something pretty nice and fun.

Because I like Zaitrec, and didn’t want to specifically make an optimized list. Was just to try out something different for fun. The list still profited from Zaitrec though, the full list was like this: Cathallar, Stonemage (with arcane tome), 2 x 10 Warden, 2 x 10 Sentinels, Lifeswarm and Cogs (with 2 x 5 Stoneguard and the two big boys). Still a lot of spell casting, and spell denial (which people sometimes might forget). For example, this time my opponent could cast maybe 3 spells during the whole game. Also because most of his casters were dead by the end of battle round one, so not only because of Zaitrec : ). If I’d played the same list in Ymetrica the Cathallar, Warden and Sentinels wouldn’t have profited from it. So it’s not that big of a difference. Although I likely would have played less MSU in a Ymetrica list. And likely taken an additional 5 Stoneguard over 10 Warden (I don’t have more Alarith than that currently) to make one unit of 10 SG. But for just a normal game, I think you can still play with another faction even if you have quite a big Alarith core. For example this time: almost always having Speed of Hysh, Total Eclipse, Mystic Shield, Lambent Light etc., could easily have made up for the difference of the -1 additional ignore rend, which would only have come up against one or two of his models (one of which died at top of T1). I just think - if you really like Ymetrica, you can build a list that plays into those strengths, really lean into pushing people to give you an additional 1” movement etc. and make it work because the underlying units aren’t bad I think. Not that Ymetrica is really the best option now. Sadly besides the ignore rend (which is pretty awesome) everything else is mediocre/bad. You’ll still struggle against lists with many mortals, just like before (except maybe you can keep your Mountains alive longer). But then most LRL lists that don’t include Teclis have problems with that.

I played a list with Avalenor, Spirit of the Mountain, a Stonemage and 10 Stoneguard last Sunday, in Zaitrec, so all but optimal. And it was a lot of fun. Avalenor died top of T1 because he got focused, but he took Prince Vhordrai with him, so I didn’t feel bad about that. And my Mountain Spirit went on an unstoppable killing spree, taking out 15 Direwolves, and 10 Blood Knights over the game (with assistance, but mostly alone), taking objectives and scoring Battle Tactics. Stoneguard still sadly felt lackluster, but in Ymetrica ignoring rend 2 they might be pretty good actually. 3+ against 90% of opponents leaves you with spending your CP somewhere else and guarantees that you can use the +1 attack CA on them. If you want to. So they might be ok for their points. If you like Ymetrica, it’s worth a try. Because it was really our worst faction before, people might just speak from theory crafting. It could be pretty good (maybe not the top list, but good enough). Before meeting a mountain: After meeting a mountain: P.S. Mannfred is a d.ck : ). That is an awesome Warscroll. He’s a pain to play against (without feeling OP), but must be super fun to pilot. They managed to make the model just like in the lore.

It’s not a Ward, and I don’t think this falls under the Triggered Effect role, because that applies only to your own dice rolls as far as I understand it. Like in their example.

Well good luck there! You can get it all, the whole menu: 3 Archaon lists, a Gotrek & Morathi list, Nagash of course, a Lumineth list with 30 Sentinels and Gotrek and so on. I mean you also bring a heavy-hitter, but I wonder how long people will enjoy that kind of hero hammer. I hope you have a good time though! 👍

This is something I felt so much in each of my 3 games so far - in AoS 2 I often sat snuggled within my comfy castle with a nice and easy -1 to hit (at least) on almost anything. In AoS 3 I'm almost constantly on the attack (and after the first charge the -1 is gone anyway), so much so that my opponent was wondering what happened to all the -1 to hits : ). This might change a bit though if people add Avalenor/SoM to their lists, people use Alumnia and Ballistas more etc.

Stoneguard aren't that much more durable though. They have the same 4 up save. Yes, they ignore rend 1, but you can easily replicate this with your Warden (double 1 out of aetherquartz, Mystic Shield, AoD, and because of how it's written as soon as you face something with rend 2 you are in exactly the same position as with Warden (Stoneguard don't subtract, just ignores rend 1, so it doesn't stack with increased saves). And for that you give up a spell and a lot of damage. Maybe if you go into Ymetrica for ignoring rend 2, but then, you also lose out on a lot of other stuff. I think in a way that's good, because Lumineth are aelves, so they shouldn't be super durable. Mountain Spirit and/or Avalenor might be something though. But again, as often with LRL, there are quite a few drawbacks which aren't always apparent. Avalenor being locked into Ymetrica and only having -1 rend, and the Mountain Spirit not being a hero, so you can't improve them in any way as you can with hero monsters which are the big winners generally it seems. But still, yeah I think they should be something for people to look into. Edit: I'm also really happy that you enjoyed your game against LRL. I understand that they can be sometimes a bit frustrating to play against - and some people might enjoy that more than others - but I feel it's also often overstated how bad it is, or how powerful LRL are. Sure, if you play with 60 Sentinels - that's probably not a lot of fun (in my view for both parties), but many factions can do the equivalent to that. In the same way @Enoby feels about some "influencer" talking the Slaanesh book down, I feel about people pushing a bit of an unfair narrative about LRL. Also happy to hear that people are coming around a bit on Slaanesh, they have such beautiful models, so it's great if the battletome isn't a total catastrophe. Hope you two have many fun matches in the future! : )

No problem. Also that's just my opinion : ). Swordmasters/Bladelords - in my view that's a perfect reason to keep 5 in! It's always a bit difficult to talk about BL, because most of us expected a different unit (more like the SW) and Warden are just really good. But I play with BL in my list, and they can work very well. If you get them into the right enemy units - they are blenders (something like Skeletons/Zombies), and if you have a magic-heavy meta, they are also good, especially when you play with Teclis - 2 chances to ignore a spell on a 4+ and on top of that like a 5+ Ward. Means they are almost immune as long as they are within Teclis auras. And they might come in handy as body guards. Sadly Perfect Strike suffers a lot from the higher saves, this ability likely would need rend 3 now to make it function like it was in AoS 2. Or damage 2. It's a bit sad that a unit that wasn't taken very often anyway got worse in AoS 3. Dawnriders - I play with one unit of 5 and they are always one of my MVP. Because of their speed, this is so helpful in many situations. But I don't play with Teclis (so no teleport, and Teclis himself is also quite fast himself), so they might not be as important in your list. This could be something to try out and see what works better for you. Ballistas - I haven't played with them, and I don't know how important it is that you go down to 1 drop. 15 points could mean that you have a Triumph which is pretty cool. I wouldn't overthink that, a lot of lists don't add up to exactly 2,000. I think 1 Ballista is probably not enough to make a difference, so I'd take two myself if I was in your place. But again, that's also something you can test a bit around as you have the models anyway.

That list should perform well I think. Warden are definitely one of our best units. In your list, you could drop 5 Bladelords and add another 10 Warden to one of your existing units. A block of 20 is really good to have - 10 can die pretty easily with just one bad save roll (because you can only get them down to a 3+ save now, even in Syar). Another thing you could do is also drop 5 of the Dawnriders and add a Lord Regent instead (but 2 x 5 Dawnriders are fine too!). Concerning the Ballistas - 2 drops might be good enough. That depends a bit on your local meta. Probably there won't be that many pure 1 drop lists out there. But that's just me guessing. About the Bladelords - You do not need to run any Bladelords at all in your list in my view - Your Cathallar likely will be in the Shrine and have a 5+ Ward most of the time (so often 4+ & 5+), you could take some Endless Spells instead, Lifeswarm and Spellportal might do more for you in the end. I like the BL models though (which doesn't apply in your case : ) ), and they are good against some opponents, there is a bit of personal preference involved, and again it depends a bit on your meta. If you play against a lot of melee focused armies, you Cathallar is likely fine without a body guard. If it's a lot of shooting and magic damage then the BL might be better.

Great that you had a good time! AoS 3 can be a bit overwhelming for the first few games. My first took almost 7h (incl. setup), and afterwards I felt braindead. But that's also part of the fun in a way. Definitely use all the tokens you have from the box, cheats sheets, and prepare a bit what you want to do (I usually write down what I want to do during my first Magic Phase with each Wizard, even though you have to adapt a bit, and think about my Battle Tactics). And then it's just playing as much as you can and maybe don't change your list too much/often for the first few games. How your army feels in your local group is really dependent on what your friends play. LRL have a lot of options, and Mortal Wounds are great in this edition. So generally you should be fine (if someone plays a 15 Bow Snakes list with Morathi and Gotrek on the other hand, you might not be fine : ) ). I think no one knows yet how the tournament meta will look like and what LRL's place will be in it. A 3 way game in 1,000 points is probably not a good way to judge how good there are right now. Especially if one of your opponents brings something like Belakor to a 1,000 points game. That's like you taking Teclis in a 1,500 list when everyone else just plays with 5/6 W heroes. (Not saying it's bad of them to do so, just hard to count the game in terms of how LRL perform generally or you would perform in a 2,000 points game). You definitely have to memorize many/most of the rules (and/or use cheat sheets). Especially with LRL, all those small things add up - don't forget to throw your Warden flask, can you risk a point for Redeploy so that your opponent gets into range of Unleash Hell when they charge. Use your LR so that you can cast Arcane Bolt with your Warden for maybe 2 x d3 MW, your Windmage has a spell that prevents others from using Command Abilities on a unit until your next hero phase (don't forget it's still valid during their turn). Don't forget to retreat so that you maybe can Rally next hero phase, have you tried to heal your heroes? Stacking save buffs to ignore rend. And so on. I try to focus each game on one of the new Command Abilities right now, to use them as often as possible (even if it's not always making sense) so that I can remember them better. For example, 10 Sentinels aren't great, yup - but, in a 1,000 points game without something like Belakor, let's say you have Lambent Light on a "normal" unit that is likely going to charge you the following phase. If you position the Sentinels so that you can Unleash Hell - that means you have two phases of shooting at that unit under Lambent Light (in your shooting phase and then in your opponents charge phase). That can still add up to quite a lot of MW (for a 1,000 game). Now, as soon as you have 20 Sentinels ... they are starting to get really good. And you could even have used an unrelated movement of your opponent somewhere else to Redeploy your Sentinels so that they are in reach for Unleash Hell later. And then you have your Battle Tactics and the general strategy on how to score and actually win a game : ). It's also good to put in some thought in advance of a game. What's the potential Battle Tactics you can score with your list, and what rough order would you want to do it. Is there an opportunity to cast Metamorphosis to score extra (something I always plan to do and then forget 😅). Or do you have a Monster with which you could do that.

@HowdyhedbergGreat job! Yeah these take time. But time worth spent : ) . Around one per day isn't bad I think in terms of speed. I'm ca. a month(?) into my Spirit of the Mountain. Hopefully can finish it within a week or so.

double post, sorry.

Agreed, in a local meta, it can be bad for you, if you depend on "normal" Wizards to do pretty essential casts, but face a lot of anti-magic opponents. We had that in my last game. I play a Zaitrec list with almost everyone being a Wizard (without Teclis though) because I like playing with mages and spells. But it has the side effect that in our last game, my opponent, who plays SBL could cast maybe 3,4 spells over the whole game because I rolled slightly above average with my unbinds, and that was enough to almost totally shut him down in the magic phase. Which isn't fun - especially as SBL does depend partially on their spells. So, he'll try to change his list accordingly. And maybe I also do, to make it less of an anti-magic list, if that doesn't work out. But I don't think that means a) it's a problem generally in competitive play (let's see what happens there), and b) that you can't have fun in general. As long as games are still win-able even if the magic phase is a bit loop-sided, it's ok. In the same way as the shooting or melee phase can be loop sided and it still can be a fun match. I wouldn't win a straight up melee brawl against with mine for example against strong melee lists. I think it's great that we have that kind of faction and list variety, and as long as there are list building options available to adapt, it's ok. That can be part of the fun. Even if on the downside it can sometimes be a bit frustrating.

Or, we have no idea yet, how the 3 meta will turn out. All this “magic dom meta” talk is based on AoS2. An Archaon list in STD, with a focus on Varanguard, just went 5:0 in a tournament in Australia (with a Mark of Slaanesh), Guargants are apparently doing very well, Skaven with Stormfiends are a thing, you have Sylvaneth doing quite well (yup with magic, but not with anti-magic) and so on. Probably Archaon in Tzeentch does also well, but the main point of that list is definitely not that is such a great anti-magic list. But of course here at TGA - it’s Teclis and Kroak. And we already have to find a way to make make these less powerful and change the whole way magic is done in AoS. Your magic phase being shut down isn’t fun, and if you play locally in an area where you know a lot of people will play with Kroak, Tzeentch, Teclis etc., and you only have Wizard with no bonus, then it’s a good idea to see if you have to adjust your list. Like you’d have to do if you face very powerful melee or shooting lists. But right now telling people to not take Wizards in competitive play - because they might face Teclis in a tournament is just bad advice in my view.

Yes, you should still bring Wizards for competitive play - because right now it's probably more likely you'll face Archaon, Morathi etc. than Kroak or Teclis. And having a chance to unbind Mystic Shield or a Mindrazor can be quite helpful there. Your Wizard also still has a chance to unbind their spells, and dispel Endless Spells, which magic heavy factions tend to use often. And most Wizards have useful abilities on their scrolls besides their spells, Oracular Visions doesn't become useless because Kroak is on the battlefield.

I think Maogrim is right. Lyrior doesn't do much for you over a Lord Regent, and doesn't get any of the benefits from Zaitrec. So you more often than not, wouldn't get your Total Eclipse cast with him if you needed to. If you use the Lord Regent, you can also add another Endless Spell. Especially if you have Cogs, you want to use the additional casts. A Lifeswarm, Shackels, or even a cute little Burning Head with the option of getting your Triumph probably will do much more for your than the added value Lyrior brings over a Lord Regent. If you feel like you are always starving for more CP, then you could change it again. I would probably also split the 20 Sentinels into two 10s for the extra cast. You can still add things like Ethereal, and more Protection of Hysh, a Solar Flare in case there is a powerful caster on the others side, or more redundancies.

This generally looks good. It depends a bit if you can play the Wind Temple units well, that could be the only “issue”. 10 Sentinels don’t do that much, but might still be worth it in Helon.

In Matched Play you can’t take any Order armies besides Idoneth (Gotrek) for LRL.

Hard to say, it really looks like they don't want us to take a lot of allies right now. If it's for balance reasons, it might stay like that, if it's for sales reasons, it could change in the future.