Doko

tier list going around is this: top: orcs and goblins t1: beastment and warriors of caos t2: high elfs,brettonian and khemri t3: wood elves,empire t4: dwarfs and legacy armys

i wont continue saying the same because this forum is very positive and dont acept negative coments,but rigth now internet is burning with everyone laughing of the supposed gw gave same love and effort toward legacy armys; only some examples of errore with legacy armys that cores domt have any: -dark elfs murderous skill is buged and dont work with the units that have it -vampire counts have a spell that is 9/12 but the description say 7/9 -dark elves havent black ark fleetmasters. -the power level of legacy is balanced betwen legacy armys but is way way worse than core armys. oh this is only a example and explained in a better english than mine.

falsr,you cant use blood armor and full plate armor.both are armor and you must choose one. dark elfs cant get better than save 3 as i said and ward 5 while high elf have s2 ward 5 and regen 6

ok if i compare to 6th edition,so tow vs 6th: -1ws -2 initiative -lost ward6 and rerolling ALL wounds near to cauldron. so even vs 6th edition now they have worse defense(no ward and worse ws and worse initiative doing them go second many times) and worse damage(no rerolls and worse ws and initiative). i think is the most nerfed unit in entire tow and im salty because was my favourite units and the half of my list was wycthes+cauldron that now is plenty bad

in fact serrated maw is a downgrade because you must waste one attack of ap2 in one maw with same s but 0 ap. yes black dragon have better breath,but i think NOBODY gonna waste 500 points in a dragon to do breaths attacks and dont go to melle. also the wyches who was my favourite units,have lost everything. -they have lost the ward(now the cauldron have a 10% chance to give it when before was 100%) -they have lost the reroll wounds rolls -they lost 2ws -lost 2 initiative and attack first(in some editions) in general the wyches have gone from be hard to play(frenzy) and with bad defense(ws 6,attack first and ward5) but with huge damage that killed everything that they touch(3 attacks rerrolling all misses and all the wounds rolls with attack first i6 and ws6 ) to be the worst defense of tow with 1w t3 and 0 saves and also weak attack with no rerrolings,worse ws and while having same problem of frenzy. the nerfs to wyches plus the huge nerfs to the cauldron have killed the wytches. old cauldron was a allways with zero counterplay or chance,a ward plus rerollimg wounds. new cauldron must choose betwen the ward or others buffs and now must do a spell with around a 50 % chance to cast and then the enemy have a 75% chance to cancell it with his lvl4 mage doing in practice useless this cauldron. who tougth that have bound spells in models that arent wizards is balanced when enemy can cancell them with +4 bonus? these bound spells mustnt can be cancelled or change it to a leadership test as empire priests or khemri so enemy cant cancell it. rigth now everyone is starting to do numbers and see that is imposible do these bound spells with only +2 models while enemy have +4 to cancell it

yes sure lets see: cold ones: in total: 2 attacks at ws3 s4 0rend +1 attack ws5 s6 rend 2 high elfs: in total: 1 attack ws 3 s3 0 rend + 2 attacks ws 5 s5 rend 2 you think dark elfs are better? because i think highs elfs are better in every situation and also ignoring that dark elfs have stupidity that is the worse rule in tow. also you cant compare stubborn that is useless in tow and imnume psy(that isnt bad) to fear that is the best stat in tow and veteran that again is one of the best stats and also having ward6 better too. im not saying dark elfs are unplayables,but are just plain downgrades of high elfs

yes high elf dragon with +1 ws than dark elfs and +1 stomp sttack with save2 ward 5 and 5regen vs black dragon save 3(where are u finding the save 2?) ward 5 and no regen. i see worse the black dragon

after study some of these i think in my opinion gw put zero effort to legacy armys and zero testing,they arent balanced,they are way way underpower than core armys. i only have studied vampire counts and dark elves,but these have lost every flavour than they had and they are now a copy but with worse rules than high elfs and khemri. per example dark elfs and high elfs allways have had the same bonus to magic(some editions was a +1 to cast). but now here high elfs can reroll one spell PER TURNS while dark elfs only can reroll one spell one time PER GAME. so they had same skill im fantasy but here dark elf is just plain worse. as white lion cloack and sea dragon cloack,now both are only a +1 save to shooting,but old white lion was +2 save to shooting and sea dragon was +2 s to shooting AND +1 save to melle,but now both are only +1 to shooting nerfing so much more the dark elf oh by the way the black ark fleetmaster is missing......great effort put yes..... -executioners are swordmasters but for +2 points and obviously even being more expensiver have worse stats with-1 rend,worse ws,worse initiative and dont have ward vs shooting. -black guards are copied the phoenys guard but 1 points less and dont have ward neither fear. for only 1 point phoenys guard are better again -cold one cavalry vs dragon princess, have HALF attacks for same points and worse save(dont have ward) and are stupid. same cost for half damage,worse save and worse rules -cold one charriot vs white lion charriot: same cost and dark elf have +1 impact hit as pro and handicap........worse ws than lions,worse s the pilots and worse rend,also worse save(white lion cloack) and dark elf have stupid, again same cost for MANY WORSE stats and the list in infinite, dark elves are a mirror of high elfs but with worse rules and expensiver. if we give a 8/10 to high elfs then dark elfs are a 5/10. playables but not balanced with core armys

"great love and effort put to those pdf"

i was thinking get the vampire on dragon,not mage because in tow is lvl 4 or nothing(there numbers showing this). but in those pdf the vampires are almost as goblins heroes of 40 points but for 160 lol vampires in tow are a shadow of how they were. i think i wont use any vampire in my competitive vc plays

yes,battle for the skull pass thunderers and warriors were diferent to the regular late 6th edition kit. the skull pass models were only one piece while the regulars have 3/4 piece each model -warriors of skull pass were only one hand and shield while the regular kit was warriors with one hand and shield or two handed axes -the skull pass only had thuderers in one bit with zero upgrades. while the box of late 6th had the option to build with crossbows or guns(quarrelers or thuderers) also a extra axe to build them as rangers

that box MUST have double amount in everything to be the real deal,that box had 4 units when even orcs have 6 or 7 units. also pretty dissapointed with the balance of core armys vs pdf army. only seeing the balance in mirror units or skill,the pdf are worse and expensiver.......just why yes. examples: -high elfs and dark elfs had allways a +1 casting,now high elf have reroll one failled cast EACH TURN while dark elf only reroll one failled cast ONE TIME IN ENTIRE GAME. so it is a mirror skill but better in core when was mirror in fantasy. -black guard vs phoenyx guard, similar stats and cost but phoemyx guard have ward 6 better for same cost. again not huge but for same cost have same stats but core army a extra of ward6 -executiomer vs swordmasters: same stats in general but dark elf cost +2 points than high elf and only have killing blows while swordmaster have +1 rend,+2 ws,+2initiative,ward6 to shooting and the 6 to wound ignore saves. again mirror units but pdf have worse stats and cost more. -dark elfs on deep one vs dragon princess, have worse save,half attack(1 vs 2)and have stupidy that is worse than impetious. again same cost for mirror units but core have better save,double damage for same cost. it isnt huge but if wr give a 8/10 to high elfs per example then dark elfs are 5/10 and is the same with vampire counts and lizardmens(i didnt see the others). pdf armys arent useless or umplayables,but for sure they are one tier under core armys

i have had some cases where my battleforce or start collecting had one unit missing,they just sent me the unit missing. also many times i got some bits brokens and when i asked for a change i had diferent results(all this is from shops non gw ofitial,i never buy from ofitial gw): the 80% of the times they just send me one new unit and i keep the old damaged but some weird ocasions they ask that i give the damaged unit back. i know is a bit stupid ask for a new unit only for damaged bits,but after ser how others companys as tamiya or bandai use plastic box with each matriz to keep them safe.......i just dont acept anymore pay a overcosted money from gw and get a new product with damaged parts when i payed the full amount. per example i got black knigths with the tail broken,blood knigths with the wing of the captain broken,khinerais with wings or even one tail broken,and my brother got many lumineths with arrows broken or even lances. all these from 100% new boxes from stores

this mate must be a genious because that list is hard to play and with a huge pile of things to keep in the head each turn. after see the final with city vs city and both lists with two comand corps i think is easy to guess that the comand corp gonna be nerfed,very posible add unique to it or go beyond and even nerf it to not work on same unit. glad see 0 fusilers after hear rivers of cryers and haters everywhere also if they nerf the humans just because they won one tournament after months since the release, i hope they also take note as both players had 0,0 elfs and dwarfs. so if they nerf humans i hope they are logical and buff the underpower units as dwarfs and some elfs

yup i was looking for the vid where i read this. but empire was one of the less sold armys in fantasy even if they were the favorite army of many fantasy designers and said by this boss of gw,they tried push the sales of empire giving them more units that other armys and more plastic kits but this didnt worked. the top seller was warrior of caos,then high elfs and dwarfs,then many others mixed and at the botton empire,bretonian and khemri also we dont know if tow have been a success or not,they produced very SMALL amount of boxes and these sold out fast. but this dont mean nothing. they could have done only one box of each and these dudes think that was a success because was sold out. we know that many stores only had ONE box delivered,sell one box by each store is a huge success? i dont think so

thanks i couldnt writte it better. our store had a similar situation,in 2.0 we had around 3 or 4 games each week,in 3.0 with luck we have one game in a full month(i have been this last month looking for a adversary with no luck). 2.0 was great,only build a random list and lets play! 3.0 we need think first in our list and what units we gonna need to do the tactics,then in the game we need keep in our head the tactics that we must do each turn and with wich unit. its hard? no , its fun? NO aos 2.0 was fun because the lists didnt matter and the game was won by who got double turn.......jokes asike. aos 3.0 is lost in many situations since the army list creation if you dont bring any mage,or fast units,or especific units(as khinerai in dok). i wont say that aos 2.0 was better or worse than 3.0(that to me was better) but for sure was more friendly to casual gamers and more fun

its a problem,but for shooting armys,everyone hate shooting and gw have nerfed this edittion every single balanced shooting unit untill it is overcosted and dont worth use it. sentinels werena example,then sc longbows crossbows,blisbarbs,fusilers of city(and very posible other nerf incoming) and also very posible other nerf incoming to sharks. in general rigth now every single shooting unit is overcosted but in general people dont like shooting,so majority is happy with whooting being bad and gw is happy.

i preffer first option. this actual release have killed all the hype in my club of new players waiting for their favorite army to be released while old players are happy because they can finish their army without pay the price of second hand. so with actual release and only in my club they wont get any new player and only 1 or 2 units sold to old players to finish their old collection, i think is a faill. if they would have done the same than kemri and bretonian then we had around 7 new guys hyped for their army release and was going to do 7 new full armys and also those same old players were getting the new kits and finishing the old collection also. so.......i think they have done a huge error,release new units for every army and sell well each army and then with time release these new armys was a better option than actual option of bad sells of core armys but hope for good sales of the new armys with the game allready dead

yes i agree with you. orders in general are bad designer,bad balanced and only delay the game as the battle tactics do. dwarfs orders are useless,the mortals back is ******(2 mortals for each 12 died and we must waste one hero and that is our army skills?), and the shieldwall as i have sent multiples feedback to gw is useless,only work in enemy combat phase and the magic,shooting,charges or our combat phase is a 0. they must change shieldwall to be for a full turn untill our next turn or change forever but you loose it if you charge. also i have said many times that ironbreakers are overcosted and a unit with 6'6 damage and 0 rend being slow must cost around 100 points(the save3 dont worth it as 10w save3 is worse than per example clanrats 20w save 5 for 100 points) also dwarfs lost every buffs posible,the old +1 wounds of longbeards gone,the +1 attack of king gone again,the +1 hit of hurricanum gone,the +1 rend of runelord gone also(for ramged deleted and for melle nerfed into useless going from 2+ to casting it to 4+) in general dwarfs dont have any support and is as you must play them. forget ironbreakers and irondrakes that are overcosted by 30%+ and only play hammerers without support and lomgbeard as msu units to fill the batleline tax. is ironic but the better support that dwarfs have are the humans,have a human close and fusillers make the hammerers inmune to shooting or the enemy gonna give you a free shooting to your humans. elfs are in better place,the retreat order is ******,but the attack first order is very strongth,, also the velociraptors are great for their cost,they are fast and 10 w with s3 for that cost is our best tank unit(only compare to ironbreakers for same cost) also the drakespawn ryders have 2", have you tried a unit of 10? that gonna do ok damage for only 260 points and 20w with s3 is great,also some melle charriot doing mortals together is good. but i can agree with you,city is only competitive in actual meta with humans and with the very posible incoming nerf this can even change too. i am not a big tournament player and im fine with the balance of dwarfs and elfs,for sure they need some support from humans to work and as i said some units are umplayables as irondrakes or ironbreakers but in general isnposible play lists with 70% being dwarfs and elfs and win games

i wont be a hater.......i only gonna say this reveal is very dissapointint and not what i was expecting getting for each faction. a new box with 0 new unit or heroe. the box dont have nothing extra as rulesbook etc the box is only around 5 old units and for sure with less disscount that khemri and bret(i hope this box cost around 99/100 € with the units that bring) also 0 new units in the release. only two new foot heroes on fw resin and thats all. i think we can forget our dreamw for dwarfs. i guess the shieldbearer new on fw and thats all,then come back the fw bsb and they dont bring nothing new. also the box around 30 warriors,25 quarrelers and 1 cannon

yes i know,so i said thorgrim as prince and not king,rigth now the king is alive and is his uncle if i remember rigth. the box i said quarrelers and organ guns,but these boxes are multikit and both can be built as thunderers and cannons if they use the last version of late 6th edition for warriors,quarrelers etc as i said i think rangers gonna be the new unit,we havent any real model for them while even if they are ugly and old we have slayers. so seeing as they released the old metal battle pilgrims and the new unit was the unit withouth models, im sure if we get new unit gonna be the rangers.

wishlist for tomorrow: dwarf box with: -32 warriors -32 quarrelers -16 miners -2 organ gun/canon -new hero on shieldbearer with the new book we get also: -new fw model of grombindall with rules on the dwarf book -new bsb of fw resin -return of the kit of thorgrim on fw resin with rules as prince on the new book -a new plastic kit with rangers this is the more realistic,but my wildest dream is a new plastic kit style bretonian pegasus with a throne of power and the options to build on it a king with every option(one hand and shield,two hand and the bsb) or a runelord on it.

this new dok hero is the perfection,greek vibes and not over the top as usually is in aos. the city box i am not fan,but if it cost around 40€(and not the rip off that was backtalon) i would get it to use in citys,a wh for my tow empire and a castellan for sc is usefull. the lumineths im torn,the armored are great but the armorless are too much plain

in general to me aos 3 have been a downgrade of aos2 and have done less popular aos in my store. its slower,more tedious,less fun and have created a bigger wall to new players because they must learn many extra things as heroic skill,monsters skills,battle tactics etc -battle tactics are horrible and everyone hate them, is a huge waste of time doing longer the games,they are VERY UNBALANCED betwen armys and nobody in my zone likes the style of play that promote(wait turns doing nothing,run in circles and dont engage in combat etc) -new coherency is horrible and have done useless and unplayables every unit with 1" range weapons and bases of 30" as vulkites berzerkers and also again make the games longer. -new rule that mages doing a double 1 dont do more spells is again stupid and punishes mages with multiples spells(nagash 1k points doing a double 1 in first spell and then dont do nothing for entire turn) in general i wish they just deleted every aos 3.0 rule and back to 2.0 that was faster,funnier and best in everything. only the monster habilitys are a good thing because monsters have been weak for a long time but even this do games longer

a mage with +2 to cast(+3 in settler gain) with a great inbuilt spell of d3 mortals AND -1 hit to enemys and with a +6 to their range of spells(with the enhacement of elfs) and you can choose if you preffer hoarfrost or blizard,i usually choose blizard in case some enemy come close. i allways play one and many times even two,usually dreadspears as sacrifice but sometimes i even use black guards. maybe not the most competitive option,but in my store the combo of black dragon doing mortals to enemy with each miss+roar+sorceres 24" spell to put -1 hit to enemys have been umbeatable so far(granted we dont do 30+ tournaments of 5 rounds and we usually the best are 14 people with 3 rounds)