AngryPanda

On a side note, I really like the profile pic; is it from Silent Hill? I’ve been playing the Fallout 4 Whispering Hills mod for a couple months now, brings back memories (no pun intended again) from the PS1 and early PS2 era days. I heard a rumor Kojima is making another Silent Hill.

A calvary-based Blood Knight army is going to look awesome on the tabletop. It also seems so far, from the rules preview, that their going to have some bite (no pun intended) in combat. The move rule is interesting, and as others have said it may either be an indication of things to come in AoS 3 regarding how movement will work, or a FAQ will need to drop for clarification on some of the confusion. However, like anything, rules are only half the story: once the point values come out we can get a much better estimate of how practical they’ll be on the tabletop. My guess is that they’re going to be pretty expensive considering how elite a Vampire calvary unit is, both in lore and from the rules previews.

Sometimes the rumor engines are poorly done because they show a portion of an upcoming model that has nothing to do with the majority of the figure. The lizard/gecko rumor engine image on the base of Kragnos was impossible to decipher, and regardless of how much speculation we can muster, there was no possible way we could of guessed it would belong to him. This, however, is potentially good example of a rumor engine pic: it gives us enough of an image to somewhat reasonably guess what it could belong to despite it's ambiguity. Also, notice that the image doesn't show any limbs, such as hands or parts of the body that can be identified; if we were to see hands within gauntlets of some kind then it would be easier to assume that this belongs to a stormcast. By contrast, if we were to see clawed or rubbished hands, then perhaps they may belong to the new rumored "evil" that's going to be debuting in the started box. Personally, I'm unsure; it could be a stormcast or something entirely different. My guess is that it is definitely related to AoS, and is probably going to be in the starter box that's going to be (assumingly) announced May 29th.

This is why I didn’t buy the new Slaanesh book: the models are phenomenal but the book is probably the worst one published by GW. Although, I did buy two boxes of Painbringers and Sigvald just for hobby purposes.

I’m on the boat that it’s not going to be Fimir; if it’s a standalone Fimir army I’m going to be very surprised. Just taking a look at the official artwork teasers that have been released, in addition to the rumors, my guess is that’s it’s going to be some sort of Goblin on ‘roids. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if Fimir were included as a “supplement” to the new faction. Similar to how Gloomspite Gitz have Troggoths as part of their army, and that you have the option of taking trolls independently but will be technically playing Gloomspite, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did the same with Fimir in this circumstance. A main army of jacked up swamp goblins, followed by a couple of Fimir scattered in for extra muscle, it would fit nicely with ascetics and narrative.

I love the design of the new SCE armor, looks very ornate and medieval; the original stormcasts were too “bland” for my tastes and never really caught my attention. AoS has had a skew of releases that have been more original then traditional, even though they may be inspired from traditional motifs, such as the OBR and Lumanith. I have a feeling that this new, hinted release is going to be something that is original in concept but inspired from existing fantasy themes. My guess? Judging from what’s being passed along in the rumor mill, it’s going to be a new variant of greenskins that we haven’t seen before; something similar to a Hobgoblin but also very different. It’s probably going to be a larger, deadlier subspecies of green skin (somewhere between Orruks and the traditional grots we’re familiar with) that has a recurring motif with swamps/marshes. Whatever the case may be, If the swamp theme is consistent within the army, then look forward to the Shrek conversation opportunities. It’s going to be easy converting some Ogors into renditions of Shrek, and taking them as an ally attachment.

Called it. It also seems that the rumor engine was correct, and that the Stormcasts have received the equivalent of a “terminator” for the setting. I haven’t been big of a fan of the stormcast design, but that new Annihilator looks great; the new design for the armor on the other stormcasts look pretty cool as well. The rumor mill is also pointing towards AoS 3 to be less focused on releasing new armies, and more emphasized on updating the existing range; specifically it’s been discussed that Fyreslayers and Cities of Sigmar are going to be receiving supplements to their model range. We will be receiving some new armies, but not at the frequency of the current/previous editions. These are all rumors though, and with any rumors it’s best to take them with a grain of salt. Crossing my fingers that the new edition also means changes to the points, really hoping to see those point drops for Slaanesh (especially considering that there’s been a general consensus from the survey and community that the points are very overpriced).

Putting on my tin foil hat, in the somewhat recent AoS Coach interview with Russ Veal, he mentioned the reason for the apparent nerfs and high point costs were because of “some disgruntlement behind the scenes” that he can’t disclose. Honestly, I have a slight suspicion that someone in the rules team dislikes Slaanesh, or the bad backlash from the first book left a very bad tastes for some of the rule designers. Whichever the case is, I really hope it doesn’t carry into the Twins; it isn’t a good rule design philosophy.

Just wanted to point out something strange: in the recent info video for the reveal of Kragnos, the designer talked about his excitement for all the new centerpiece models, except for the upcoming Twins. I find it strange, considering leading up to our release we didn’t get much love either; GW couldn’t even find time to mention the birth of a God’s offspring. Link to video

Nice list! Fiends and Glutos are very difficult to deal with, they can be used as a base to build some very unique castle lists. Something I’ve considered doing for the fun is taking a pretenders host with Glutos as the General, followed by a sturdy wall of Fiends in the front; would be interesting to use but I’m unsure how competitive it would be. In regards to hitting power, have you thought about removing the Infernal Enrapturess in order to invest more into fiends or seekers? The reason I say to remove the Enrapturess is because you can easily summon her in at 7 DP; I never invest points in her because of how expensive the models is point-wise and how cheap it is to summon her. Maybe remove the Contorted Epitome as well? Glutos is a decent spell caster; you can try replacing the Epitome with more seekers or a shardspeaker running next to Glutos, and some Chaos Warriors to screen.

Personally, I can’t see how the twins are going to be the sole fix for our book. Best case scenario, they’re going to be amazing rule-wise and have variants that will either be complete blenders in combat, central pieces to synergies the army around, or both. Worst case scenario, they’ll both be overpriced versions of a Keeper of Secrets, similar to Shalaxi. Considering the best case scenario, it would mean that the majority of armies would be taking the Twins, Glutos, or Keeper/Sigvald combos, with blocks of chaos warriors to hold objectives and Slickbades to cause damage. Pretty much everything else in the book (besides Fiends which are decent) is overpriced; the sub-allegiances are also outdated lore-wise and are varyingly weak (excluding Lurid Haze). If there are going to be changes to us in the coming book, it would need to update or give us new sub-allegiances that bring us up to date on rules and the corresponding lore (makes no sense why there are god seekers and pretenders when Slaanesh has been found), along with some decent rules for the new twin models. This, and points need to be adjusted, which is most likely to happen (if it does) over the summer when AoS 3 drops. On a side note, I’m betting that next weeks Warhammer Week reveals are going to announce at some point the third edition, either on Monday or Saturday.

Dear GW, I have been an active member of both the 40k and Warhammer Fantasy community for over 14 years. I love the hobby, as the universes of 40k and AoS are my favorite science fiction and fantasy settings respectfully. Since 2016, Age of Sigmar has been a significant passion of mine to which I've dedicated many hours. As a Khorne Bloodbound and Slaanesh player, I have undergone narrative campaigns, casual nights, and have also participated in a few local tournaments; many great memories have come from these events. I have had my fair share of experiences, and am enjoying the direction that the game is heading. The new Hedonites release from February had me very excited, for the mortal sculpts are some of the best I've seen come from the design studio. Yet, having played against them a few times and observing several other games, I and some prominent figures in the community (Goonhammer, The Honest Wargamer, Miniwargaming, Age of Sigmar List Lab , etc.) have noticed that the point values for the mortal and many Daemon units are excessively high. To express my opinion, I have recently taken a survey which has been passed throughout the AoS community online and has received over 300 responses. Linked is the survey and the results: Survey Survey Results In the coming months, I and others in the community feel that a point decrease to the mortal units mentioned, potentially to some Daemons, and a change to the Slaangor warscroll would bring the army more into alignment/balance with other armies. I hope you consider the feedback that I have suggested for future updates or changes to the army, as well as the data within the recent survey, and I look forward to the coming years of content! Best regards and thank you, - AngryPanda Edit: This is the email I sent to GW that can also be used as a general template; I took some time drafting to ensure that it was well worded and polite, but also gets the main points across. The important content to include is: your opinion, the survey and the results, the mentioning of prominent figures, and your suggestions based on the data and feedback from the community. Other then this, you can modify the email as you see fit.

I’m still holding my breath, after the release of our battletome I have mixed expectations and don’t want to hype myself for an otherwise potential disappointment. Being that the Twins are the direct descendents of a chaos god, I would imagine them to be exceptionally powerful, but anything can happen with these types of releases.

To be honest, I’m perfectly content with Fiends being capped at -1 hit/wound. These two modifiers combined after AoS 3 is released will be the best debuff combo you can achieve; a 6 man unit infiltrating in with Lurid Haze can cause a lot of problems (especially with +1 to their save). Especially considering that the limiting of negative modifiers is going to be consistent across the game, it will make Fiends relatively unique as they’ll be one of the only units to reliability have both -1 modifiers. I am also liking everything I’ve read so far, I want the game to be more tactical and not be determined by who wins the roll off for turn priority. Everyone’s going to have those games where going first or getting the dreaded double, or even triple, turn can determine the outcome and make an otherwise engaging game into a feel bad one; having a way to limit this and make the game more balanced/rewarding for both players is going to make the game overall more enjoyable and thought provoking.

The loss of battalions is bittersweet, but to be brutally honest we didn’t have many good battalions to begin with (Seeker Cavalcade and Supreme Sybarites excluded). Beastmen and Sylvaneth need a complete redo, their books are just a mess. What I’ve heard from past leaks is that shooting will now require a unit to stay stationary to gain the benefits, otherwise the shooting unit will suffer from some sort of debuff or will be unable to shoot. Like anything that’s a rumor, this needs to be taken with a grain of salt as it’s pretty old. Overall, I actually think this is going to work out for us in the long term. Most of the other armies in the game seem to be losing a lot more then us, assuming the rumors are true; in theory this buffs HoS as we will be facing against opponents on more equal footing. With the changes to CP, I’m interested to see how the Rod of Misrule will interact within the army. Having the ability to give a +1 save to a unit via Lurid Haze, then cast Mystic Shield (going to be changed to +1 save) is going to make Glutos Lurid Haze lists surprisingly tanky; generating a minimum of 2 cp a turn seems pretty awesome. Mentioning Glutos, capping at -1 to hit/wound makes him much more viable as a big platform that moves forward to debuff everything in range, and the Shardspeaker also gets some more viability (assuming they bring down his points). At this point, I’m just crossing my fingers that we get point reductions/balances that are fair. Speaking of which, I think we should send it out beginning of May; no need to wait for the Twins. We already waited for the Lumanith release to drop, and we saw that their release seemed far more balanced. I have little hope that the twin release is going to change the problems that HoS had on release, and sending it out early May would be optimal.

The melee-centric one is probably going to have rules that make it a blender, and may or may not buff Hedonites in combat. The spell-casting one is going to be more similar to a support specialist, with spells and command abilities that benefit Hedonites, and also debuff or damage enemy units. It might have more powerful casting then Glutos, but the trade off would be that Glutos is more akin to an “all-rounder” that provides debuffs, bravery immunity, melee damage, and spell casting; the Newborn is probably going to lean heavily into spells and not into melee.

Hopefully the points are balanced appropriately this time.... I’m most excited for the potential of new subfactions or rules to build armies around.

I reached out to a few figures in the community (Goonhammer, Miniwargaming, The Honest Wargamer, etc.) over the weekend via the contact us info on their websites or media pages. I sent a polite message with the survey linked, while briefly explaining premise behind the survey and how we want to gauge feedback from the book in a healthy manner; I’ll post any updates if I hear back from them.

We’re back!

@Sorrow My apologies for the long response and absence from the board, law school can be awful at times via the workloads. I'm unsure of what developments have happened since we've been discussing the creation of a poll, but I think we should be prepared to release sometime before the summer (ideally late April or early May) to give the Age of Sigmar community as a whole to responds and circulate the questions, and give GW time to implement the feedback into the assumed GHB. Otherwise, if we were to release the poll too close to Summer, then it may not give GW enough time to review and consider the propositioned changes. I also read that it would be a good idea to incorporate a question or answer in the poll that goes something on the lines of "I am interested in the models, but the point costs have kept me from investing/buying from the Hedonites of Slaanesh range." Or, another means of rephrasing this question or answer: "The point costs have kept me from collecting the army, but I am interested in the Hedonites of Slaanesh range as a whole in terms of design and sculpts." Those are my two cents; I think the poll so far looks good, and maybe can incorporate questions or answers that ask if whether the point costs repulsed players or not. Personally, I believe sales and points/strength of an overall army correlate directly into higher sales numbers. This may give the illusion that an army isn't popular and does not have a fanbase, but in reality people are afraid of collecting the army because of their potential to be difficult to play. It can also be due to the challenge of painting and collecting the range, such as Skaven being notoriously difficult to collect simply because of the quanity of model's one needs to collect and paint. This may be the case for Slaanesh as well, as we are considered to have recieved some of the best sculpts within Age of Sigmar; whether we want to include a question/answer that inquires into this is debatable, as it might sidetrack the mission of the poll. Edit: Also, I don't know if this was mentioned, we should also concentrate distributing the survey to some key figures in the community (Honest Wargamer, Miniwargaming, Goonhammer, etc.), and see if they would like to participate. It's a long shot, but the ones mentioned (and maybe more) are sympathetic with our beliefs, and if they post the poll on their webpage or make a remark regarding it, that could be big.

I agree, and echoing what’s been said I also feel a point reduction to Glutos would be sort of overkill; he’s a good unit that can fit within certain lists but not others. If slickblades were too receive point adjustments, I can see them going down 10-20 points at most, but otherwise I’m pretty content with what they bring to the table. It’s the majority of on-foot mortal units need to be re-examined, and beginning with them is a good place to start; thankfully it’s not an issue with their warscrolls but rather their points. I can take a look at the questions soon tonight to see how I can add or try to give deeper analysis; from what I’ve read I like what’s being asked so far. It will be hard to analyze all the Daemon and mortals at once, and as mentioned it would probably be best to start with a reexamination of the mortal point costs. The biggest benefit that Daemons have over mortals is that even though some may be overpriced (herald on foot), you can instead summon, effectively earning free units without having to deal with the crazy point costs; for list building you can focus on the mortal units which are unable to be summoned and then use the DP to bring in Daemons that are tailored towards what you’re fighting or the scenario. I would never spend 150 pts for a Infernal Entrapturess, but I’d gladly spend only 7 DP to summon one against a caster-heavy list.

Personally, I think we should still have the poll. I’m seeing people have success with Slaanesh, particularly using our new calvary. In fact, most of the winning armies I’ve read about or witnessed are building their lists around Slickblades, which speaks to how effective they are. Occasionally you’ll see a unit or two of Blissbarbs thrown into the mix, but the majority of succeeding armies usually center around taking a multitude of 5 man squads of Slickblades in Godseekers or Luird Haze. On the contrary, it’s rare to see an army take any of the foot-slogging mortals. Sigvald and Glutos are exceptions, as they’re decently priced for what they do, and it seems people have found some general success with them on the table. However, I’ve yet to see someone bring a group of Painbringers and say that they preformed positively, or for someone to say that their Shardspeaker was a wise return on investment. Twinsouls have had mixed results, some people swear by them while others feel they need a point adjustment. Lords of pain suffer from the weakness that they’re only able to buff mortals, and being that the prime candidate for said buffs are the above mentioned Painbringers and Twinsouls, they’re also a controversial pick as they lack a role in most armies. Blissbarbs are strange in that they have some utility; they don’t do much damage and are very easy to kill, but they generate depravity somewhat consistently if they are not dealt with. And everyone knows how bad fiendbloods are. Overall, it’s poor army and book design if the majority of players are flocking to a single unit or two to build lists around, while the other options are ignored. It’s the ripple effect caused by imbalance within the battletome; people are going to naturally gravitate towards bringing units they feel will make a healthy return in investment and keep away from units that are overpriced or badly written. From what I’ve read, experienced, and seen, I think we should have a poll that asks GW to have painbringers brought down in points, for Fiendbloods to be reworked via their warscroll, and to have the other mortal units (besides slickblades and our named characters) re-examined for point costs. Shardspeakers could come down by a decent amount, and Lords of Pain will probably be a lot more reasonable at 120 pts.

This is a list I’ve been contemplating to bring for fun that centers around using mid-sized units of painbringers. If we do get a point drop on the mortal units, I could potentially add more painbringers to screen Glutos, increase the size of the slickblade unit to 10, or switch out the chaos warriors for a unit of blissbarb archers to generate depravity. 2000/2000 Lurid Haze Supreme Symberites- 150 Heroes: Glutos- 400 Shardspeaker- 150 Lord of Pain- 150 - General #1 - Artifact: Oil of Exultation Lord of Pain- 150 - General #2 - Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation - Artifact: Rod of Misrule Troops: Chaos Warriors of Slaanesh x5- 90 Painbringers x 10- 300 Painbringers x 10- 300 Calvary: Slickblade Seekers- 200 Endless Spells: Emerald Swarm (50) Geminids of Uhl-Gysh(60)/ or Chronomatic Cogs (60)

Very interesting, ty for the write up! It’s helpful to receive insights into the army at a tournament level. Judging from your experiences and from what others have said, it seems Glutos, slickblades, and chaos warriors for their cost are going to be central to a variety of lists. If painbringers were to be brought down in cost to around 120 pts, would you consider them over chaos warriors? On average, how easy was it to generate DP, and how influential was summoning throughout the games you played?

Any verdicts for the new Lumanith stuff? I read the Goonhammer review and the warscrolls, and I’ve seen the points posted both on YT and online; it seems they’ve gotten some pretty good stuff. The wind spirit and named character equivalent look scary, and have the potential to snipe support characters with consistency. The Kangaroos are much cheaper the our Blissbarb Seekers, and although they have a shorter ranged shot, their superior melee attacks and ability to be taken as battleline push them a far bit ahead. The lore seeker is cheap and going to be potent for objective grabbing (possibly an auto-include for competitive play), and the ballista is a bargain for its price. The only two units to come out of it a bit weak are the new sword masters and the banner bearer, but it isn’t too underwhelming. IMO, this Lumaneth release is definitely better then what we’ve received comparing point costs and rules.