AngryPanda

If KruelBoyz get a giant gator, when I get the chance I’ll convert them into a Florida Man army, with meth and crack-themed bases.

“We welcome your thoughts on the new points values, so please do not hesitate to send them in. The feedback that is particularly useful for us is that which focuses on powerful synergies and rules interactions between units that seem to have not been accounted for. Rest assured, we look at every bit of feedback that is submitted and greatly appreciate everyone who takes the time to do so.” I'm sure as GW posted this, they were looking at the survey we sent them and couldn’t hold themselves back from laughing. On another note, how do you guys think we do against other armies, aside from Lumanith (who are in a category of their own)? I actually think we match up pretty competitively against most armies, excluding a few that are top tier.

Lord of Pain is 155, might have to change your list

Highlighting a point that @Jaskier and @Enoby made from their experiences, it seems Twinsouls are going to have a place in a number of Slaanesh list due to their damage-dealing potential. I’m not saying that the points are justifiable, and I am still on the same boat with you guys ifor the vast majority of the models. However, after looking at the Twinsouls again, I’m starting to think that they may be worth the 185 luxury price tag, and that they may actually be a bit undercosted in 3.0. Before you consider me crazy or a traitor, here me out on this. AoS 3.0 had made a number of changes, one of the biggest being unit coherency. The majority of horde or elite infantry blocks will no longer have the killing potential that they did in the past due to only have 1 inch on their weapons ; the exception is Twinsouls with their 2 inch range. A unit of 10 Twinsouls will be able to throw in 30 attacks, rerolling to hit on +3 with CP buff, and wounding on +3 (+2 if a Shardspeaker tags along). It is rare to have that many attacks at such a high quality in this edition; you’re not going to see many units in the game with this potential for damage output. Sure they have no rend, but when you’re doing 2 damage for every successful wound, even if a measly three or four attacks make it through that’s still 6-8 damage. The same can be said for Painbringers, who will have easy access to a +3 save, and will be much harder to damage now that unit coherency is much more limiting. A unit of 10 Painbringers supported by Glutos and an emerald swarm is going to be very “fun.” If you ally in some cheap monsters to get access to the new monster abilities, like the Mindstealer Sphiranx that has a rule that mimics our original Locus of Diversion, and suddenly you’re looking at an army that hits you first with the potential for little repercussion. None of this includes the ability to summon in Daemons, which have the opportunity to fill in gaps (battleline to hold objectives, Fiends to hunt monsters or calvary, etc.) The points suck, but that doesn’t mean we need to suck as well. The great thing about being an underdog is that nobody suspects you to put up a decent fight; this element of surprise is can give us the opportunity to make some lists that catch people off guard. Take a look at the list below and let me know what you think: Slaanesh List #2 Invaders- 3 cp a turn (Rod, General, Beginning of Turn) 4 first round (Warlord Battalion) 2000/2000 Warlord Battalion - Extra Enchantment: additional artifact Heroes: Glutos- 475 - Spell: Judgement of Excess Shardspeaker- 150 General #1 Artifact: Amulet of Destiny - Spell: Dark Delusions Lord of Pain- 155 General #2 Command Trait: Glory Hog Artifact: Rod of Misrule Triumph: Inspired Batteline: Twinsouls x 10- 370 Blissbarb Archers x 10- 180 Painbringers x 10- 320 Monsters- Mindstealer Sphiranx- 95 Mindstealer Sphiranx- 95 Endless Spells: Emerald Swarm (60) Wheels of Excruciation (100) Summons: Fiends Daemonettes Keeper of Secret Infernal Enrapturess

Unless you're a Slaanesh player lol

Personally, I never understood why summoning was ever the main focus of Slaanesh. Out of the four chaos gods, why is the Prince of Pleasure considered the summoning god? It doesn’t make sense lore-wise, and it just seems GW didn’t know what to do with HoS when it first released, so they made Uber-summoning the main focus of the army from the lack of inspiration. It would of been far more interesting and balanced (for us and the meta) if depravity points could also be used on in-game unit buffs, similar to but also diametrically opposed to Slaanesh’s counterpart, Khorne. Whereas Khorne’s units gain the potential to become stronger for a turn after killing a unit, Slaanesh’s followers would gain spendable, single turn bonuses that alter the battlefield or make certain units more powerful after damaging units. For example, instead of summoning 30 Daemonettes, you can choose up to d3 unit to attack twice, or you can force a single enemy unit to attack last in the combat phase (the old locus of diversion rule). It would be costly but very useful, which is why it’s an end-game ability that requires to you save your DP instead of just spamming mass-Daemonettes. Granted, it’s a lot easier to damage something as opposed to destroying it, and would make sense for the DP costs for summoning and these theoretical abilities to be higher than the cost requirements in Khorne’s bloodtithe system; if it reduces our point costs then I would be all for it. I’m probably going to be focused on the painting and basing component of the hobby for the next couple of months, as opposed to the gaming aspect, to give myself a break and to observe how we stand after the meta begins to settle in 3rd. It’ll give me time to observe other’s experiences, and make some stronger conclusions; though my gut instinct tells me that the points are incredibly over-priced. Hopefully the FAQ addresses some of the problems, but I doubt it.

I’m just gonna leave this meme here to summarize my overall feelings towards the HoS point increases, both from yesterday and carrying into today. This is gonna be the last comment on the HoS point increase I’ll make here because I agree that this forum is for rumors and not this type of discussion. Regarding the nuke that HoS (an already crippled battletome) got to their points, it is the political equivalent of dropping a hydrogen bomb on a developing country, and having the UN say “let’s just wait and see what GW will do next, I’m sure it will get better.” I agree that we should wait for the FAQ, but this the last time we should wait before taking action. If there are changes, then we can end it here. Yet if there aren’t, then this is the kind of blunt disconnect from the community needs to be addressed; it’s just wrong and unfair to people who’ve spent hours painting their armies and being loyal customers only to be treated so poorly. We put numerous hours and hundreds of dollars into this hobby, you would think that GW would have the decency to be a bit more open about the changes they make? Take a look at what we did over on the HoS side of TGA. Since February, we kept saying “let’s wait.” We waited for our battletome to be released, only to be disappointed. We waited for the FAQ, which didn’t address any of the problems the book had. We waited for the GHB, which was a massive nerf to an already crippled faction, and now we are being asked to wait for the next FAQ. When is the waiting going to end? People who say we’re angry about the hobby and need to chill aren’t seeing the entirety of the picture here: we came together as a community and developed a survey that was submitted and confirmed to have been read. The vast majority of the community, in terms of player base and influential figures, agreed the book sucked. Yet, it feels like they took what we said and tossed us aside as if we are nothing. We’re not asking to be Uber-powerful; we’re just asking for some basic standards to be established. A point drop would of sufficed, people would have been happy if we had just stayed the same, or even gotten a very small increase in the new edition. Instead, HoS was the third most increased faction in the game. It’s wrong what they did, and if there aren’t changes in the faq we gotta do something to at least get some answers.

I agree, however if you look at the FAQ back in March in response to the criticism regarding HoS, there were no changes that address the major problems of the release; particularly the Fiendbloods becoming a meme within the community regarding how bad they were. It just feels awful when the majority figures in the hobby are laughing at or heavily criticizing the book, and there’s no reaction from GW; especially if said criticism is unanimous. Us Slaanesh players have been very patient, and month after month of disappointments has left us feeling burnt. I’ll wait till the FAQ, but if there’s no response from GW, I legitimately believe we as a community need to stand up against this blunt disregard for what the community has to say.

Yea you guys are right, but seeing the point increases still really stings. A lot of us on the HoS side were really hoping for some reductions, and when we heard that there were going to be point increases across all armies in the game we were hopeful that we would either be untouched or slightly increased. The fact that GW increased it so exponentially considering how bad the points were, even if the books were printed a year in advance, shows some disconnect. In that case, if they don't address the issue (like they did with the FAQ in march), then I say that there needs to be some sort of effort on our part as a community to address such obvious lack of disconnect.

Ok guys, we seriously need to talk about the massive, pink elephant in the room that is Slaanesh. It is not ok what they did, and GW needs to know about this. The larger figures in the community (Goonhammer, Honest Wargamer, Miniwargaming, etc.) have directly stated their opinions, and its generally be unanimous that when the Slaanesh battletome's points were overpriced. In response, on the other side of TGA via the Hedonites of Slaanesh forums, the community had banned together to create a respectable and well thought out survey that took many months of collaboration to complete. People from different parts of the internet took part, and it received a decent number of responses, totaling above 300; the vast majority agreed that the points were absurdly high. We had sent it over in late April, where it was confirmed that the rules team at GW had seen the responses from the survey, and the responses from the more prevalent community figures such as the one's mentioned above. Below is a link to the survey results: Survey Results The Hedonites of Slaanesh TGA Discussion: Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion (around pg 153-170 we talked about submitting the survey responses to GW) Within the hidden content is the copy/paste email that was sent: The original email had the working links, in addition to the survey results being able to be visibly shown. For them to not only take the community feedback into consideration, but to actually increase the points higher then all the other army so far (more then 655 point increase across the entire army!) is beyond ridiculous, and tells me that either that they don't give a ****** about the community's opinion, that there is someone on the rules team that has it in for HoS, or a mix of both. This is the kind of ****** that needs to be address. If we simply stand by and not say anything, then it just shows that GW can have their way with us in any means that they see fit without any repercussions. We need to do something about this.

Ok, so I just took a look at the point changes on reddit (everything is on there, including the endless spell changes). Out of all the armies, we have received the largest increase in points, with a whopping +655 or more across our army roster. What the hell. Everything above I hold my word to, but I'm definitely going to be watching AoS 3.0 at least a month after its release to observe people's experiences with the army; suffice to say I am speechless again. I can't imagine how Goonhammer, or Honest Wargamer are going to react.

Ok....I've taken a moment to step away from my computer and breath, and I have to say that after taking a very brisk walk I feel my head has cleared up considerably and I am able to give a more laxed analysis of our situation. I've bolded some of the main points for reference, and to highlight the takeaways I find most important. I haven't seen all the rumored point changes, mostly because they are hard to find. The biggest offender I've heard, besides Slaanesh receiving the unwarranted point increases, is the lack of changes for Lumanith; supposedly the "problem" units remained relatively the same. I have not seen this, rather I've heard this from the other rumor boards on TGA, so take this with a pretty big grain of salt. This tells me that there is either obvious favoritism at GW, that there is a disconnect between the community and the gamers, or a bit of both. In either case, there have been some changes to other armies that have impacted their playstyles as well (Orruks 'Ardboyz are now 120 pts for 5 which has more than doubled their price; Tzeentch was also apparently nuked with massive point increases across the board). This also doesn't include the newly introduces reinforcement rules, which will also limit list building across multiple other armies, and has left us relatively untouched. That's not to say that we weren't hurt, but rather it's somewhat comforting to know that other armies have also felt the punch to points that this edition was rumored to bring. Which leads me into one of my main conclusions: we're not the only one's receiving these point increases. We don't know for certain how much the points are going to increase across the entirety of the game until the core book is released or there are confirmed leaks. In fact, we might actually be relatively alright compared to other armies who are very likely going to get some decent increases as well. For example, the beautifully sculpted yet initially problematic painbringers only went up 10 points, whereas the twinsouls (with a 2 inch reach, I'll get to this soon) went up only 15. In an edition where we are sure to see more monsters, Fiends went up by 20 to 200, from 180, a decent amount. Yet, in an edition where heroes monsters have become far more useful, they may serve a far more valuable role as monster/hero hunters with their D6 damage tails, and therefore the point increase may be relatively humble. Which leads into the second position that I wish to address: let's assume the hypothetical that the worst will occur, that all the other armies in the game have relatively low point increases and we were in the minority to receive an above average points bump. Well, I have good news, and it is that fellow community members such as @Enoby and other have pointed out some fantastic highlights for us that have already been confirmed: the core rules for AoS 3.0 seems to be tailored towards our type of playstyle. I won't list out the entirety of the main analysis', but if you go back a few pages from this page you'll see some excellent rundowns on how this edition benefits our unique strategy centered around generating depravity and taking MSU units, which equates also equates to reinforcement limitations not applying much to us. To highlight some major changes that benefit us, this edition has definitely moved towards MSU-based lists via the introduction of reinforcement rules and higher point costs. This is going to result in generating depravity being easier than ever, especially with the changes to how endless spells work. Though the Wheels of Excruciation have doubled in points, being able to control them is going to make them an efficient and relatively reliable MW/DP generator; you can also run them over our own troops while they're in combat without causing any damage to ourselves! This also means that summoning is going to be much more impactful. Smaller games with smaller boards and multiple MSU units equates to large units of summoned daemonettes, seekers, or fiends being far more dangerous. In my opinion, 160 points for painbringers is a steal in an edition that saw broad increases to points across all the armies in the game. These guys are practically unkillable without high rend or MWs, and with the addition of a +1 save CP ability and the changes to mystic shield, getting them to a +3 rerollable is going to be very easy. However, this doesn't include the best part: the changes to unit coherency have made it very difficult or impossible for units with 1 inch reach weapons to attack with all their models. This means that painbringers, while they will only be able to attack with the first 5 or 6 units in the front, will be able to hold off massive hordes of less-valuable infantry without getting swarmed like in the previous edition. Mixed with Glutos' -1 hit aura and the emerald swarm endless spell (which you can also control and put directly behind these guys for those sweet revives), these guys are going to hold the line and be able to actually do a good amount of damage in return. I plan to run these guys next to Glutos, an emerald swarm, and a Lord of Pain for reroll to hits if I decide to get back into the game. Twinsouls are going to be kickass. The two inch reach is now going to be very important, and they'll be very unique compared to other elite units that only have a 1" inch reach. A unit of ten running in front of a shardspeaker (which saw no changes to the points, making them relatively cheap compared to other casters in the game), will have 30 attacks that are hitting on +3 (with command abilities), rerolling all failed hits, and wounding on +2 from the Shardspeaker's ability. I'm not saying that I agree with the point increases, and I am most certainly on the same boat with everyone here. I feel your pain because I feel the pain as well; something very fitting as a follower of Slaanesh. What I am simply saying, as one fellow player to another in the most reassuring and friendliest means I can give, is that instead of bringing up arms hastily, we should simply sit back and observe, then make conclusions when all the smoke has cleared via the massive pile of rumors that will be compiling over the next couple of weeks and the edition has had time to settle in. We, especially myself, had consistently jumped to conclusions many, many times since our initial reveal back in November. Some were warranted (Fiendbloods and Shalaxi Helbane such harder now), while others were too hasty (twinsouls can actually deal a lot of damage despite not having rend). Under the hidden content tabs are two list I've concocted from the updated points and the new rules; I hope this sheds some light on two ways we can potentially play or build lists. You guys are much better then me at building lists, as I mostly field units I like the look of in terms of sculpt; there are probably far more optimal ways to play the army and these lists are just for fun. I'm unsure how much the emerald swarm will cost, however if it increases too much then I will replace the unit of slickblades with something else, most likely a unit of fiends. As I mentioned, I won't play until a month into the edition, to give myself a better outlook on where the meta stands after all the smoke and debris clears after the core rules drop. In the meantime, I'm going to keep my head down and an eye on the other armies in the game, seeing how much they increase in points and what other important changes may happen as well. If it seems like we got very end of the stick, all hope isn't lost. I have a feeling there will still be ways to have fun with the army, just not at a super competitive level.

Yep, I’m officially done with the game for a while. Thanks, GW. You took our hard-worked survey and three it out the window. Just goes to show that they give little ****** about the players, and only care about sales.

I’m very excited about the new edition, and from reading the rules I feel that GW was able to address a number of problems that AoS second edition had. I’m particularly happy about how the new Command Point system works, and the new core battalions being a standard that is available to everyone. I’m still unsure if the benefits of going second will be enough to offset the advantage of getting priority: I have a feelings it’s going to be very dependent on the army being played. OBR, from example, don’t use command points and wouldn’t benefit from receiving the more CP if they go second, and would be in a much better position if they were to go first. As a side note, I’m both a Slaanesh and Khorne player; I was pretty disappointed with HoS’ initial release back in February, but now I’m pretty excited to be putting some Slaanesh mortals on the tabletop. I’m really surprised at how the edition has already benefited Slaanesh so much, and this doesn’t take into account the rumored point increases for everyone else which excludes HoS. Now I’m just waiting to see if they improve BoK, hopefully they do a few warscroll rewrites to make Bloodwarriors and a couple of other units legitimate options compared to the far superior StD units.

Thanks for the feedback! I’m going to experiment with the list once I get the chance; first I’ll need to finish painting my Slaanesh stuff before I jump into the game again. I feel that command points are going to have a much bigger impact on the game, especially since the new cam and abilities are pretty awesome. Units of 2x5 Painbringers will give more depravity, and with the number of CP I generate I think it will be sufficient enough to buff. I’m wrapping my head around all the new rules because of how much utility our army got from the new rules, and it’s a lot to take in. I still really like the idea of 6 fiends infiltrating in from the side of the board to give some early pressure, and with they’re high movement they can quickly flank into the enemy back line or cause some painful disruption. I agree with the spell lore, flying slickblades and Sigvald are going to be a thing. It’s expensive, but will be pretty funny to see if it’s pulled off, especially if Glutos flies across the map.

I read over the rules, and I am super excited to give it a try! I modified my previous list because from what I read, the battalions do not cost points; I got rid of the mesmerize mirror so that the two wizard can control both endless spells, and added a unit of slickblades for additional damage or flanking potential. Let me know what you guys think of the list, and if I missed anything or messed up somewhere; I believe this army generates 3 cp per turn but I’m unsure if I misinterpreted the rules. The theory behind the list is that Glutos moves up the center with the Lord of Pain, Painbringers, and Emerald Swarm to hold the middle, and the blissbarb archers either follow behind or go to the side to hold a backfield objective while generating depravity. The Twinsouls and the Shardspeaker move on the flank to either catch lightly armored units or to help with the mid in case things get dicey; the Shardspeaker casts the Wheels (only a casting value of 5!) to get a +3 save. The Fiends come in from the side of the board, while the Slickblades either tag along with them via infiltration or go wherever they are needed. I feel that the shooting, mixed with the wheels, will be suffice to generate depravity early on, and there will be plenty of casting and CP in the late game to buff my frontlines and maintain the list’s survivability through the game. Slaanesh List- Lurid Haze- 3, cp a turn, 4 once per battle 1990/2000 Warlord Battalion - Extra Enchantment: additional artifact Heroes: Glutos- 400 - Spell: Judgement of Excess Shardspeaker- 150 General #1 Artifact: Oil of Exultation - Spell: Dark Delusions Lord of Pain- 150 General #2 Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation Artifact: Rod of Misrule Triumph: Inspired Batteline: Twinsouls x 5- 170 Blissbarb Archers x 10- 160 Painbringers x 10- 300 Linebreakers- Fiends x 6- 360 Slickblades x 5- 200 Endless Spells: Emerald Swarm (50) Wheels of Excruciation (50) Summons: Fiends Daemonettes Keeper of Secret Infernal Enrapturess

And this also doesn’t include the theoretical point increases for Orruks and the rest of the armies in the game. If there are some decent point increases across the board, and we’re untouched, will be in a good spot and will most likely be within the same power level as many other recently released armies.

In preparation for Aos 3.0, I’ve derived this list designed to generate depravity while also being relatively tanky; it will also give us a lot CP to use on the new command abilities that have been teased. It’s a bit spell-heavy, but with the changes to endless spells I feel that it will give the list a somewhat reliable means of generating MWs and depravity. I’m not sure if the Supreme Symberites detachment will be allowed in match play, and if it isn’t I’ll use the Warlord detachment instead. I personally can’t wait to try the +3 rerollable save that the Painbringers can utilize in addition to the -1 hit buff that Glutos brings. The Painbringers stick with Glutos, the Lord of Pain, and the emerald swarm to hold the center of the board, while the twinsouls and the Shardspeaker move together to hit lightly armored troops or tie up anything that would be a hassle. The fiends infiltrate from the side of the board to get into the back lines early. For summons, I’ll probably bring Daemonettes to hold objectives or get stuck in, or an Infernal Enrapturess if there’s a lot of spellcasting; the fiends -1 to casting mixed with the rerolls from the Enrapturess will make the opponent’s casting attempts somewhat difficult. Lurid Haze 2000/2000 Reinforcements: 2/4, 1/1 Battalions: Supreme Symberites (?), or the warlord battalion depending on how much it’s priced- 150 Heroes: Glutos- 400 Shardspeaker- 150 General #1 Artifact: Oil of Exultation Lord of Pain- 150 General #2 Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation Artifact: Rod of Misrule Batteline: Twinsouls x 5- 170 Blissbarb Archers x 10- 160 Painbringers x 10- 300 Beasts- Fiends x 6- 360 Endless Spells: Emerald Swarm (50) Wheels of Excruciation (50) Mesmerizing Mirror (60) Summons: Fiends Daemonettes Keeper of Secret Infernal Enrapturess

I agree with everything you’ve said, and I’m also super excited for 3rd edition. If there are point increases across the board, then I have a feeling we’re going to be in a great spot with the rumored changes you’ve addressed (assuming that we don’t get point increases ourselves and it depends on how much the increases are for the other armies). I feel that something Slaanesh, as well as a many other chaos armies, need to be considering is how reinforcements are going to affect mass chaos warriors and marauders. It’s going to be a far more costly taking big blocks of chaos warriors to hold objectives, or marauders to deal damage. If warriors go up in price, taking them with additional reinforcements will take up a big chunk of one’s army, and may not be worth it in many lists. I’m also wondering how much the core battalions will cost, assuming you have to pay for them, which can be a big factor in determining how they’ll be incorporated. I can definitely see some invader lists being super strong in terms of command point generation using the warlord battalion by synergizing 5-10 man blocks of either painbringers or twinsouls to maximize damage via command abilities.

I haven’t seen anyone mention this yet, but for the ability icon ‘Magnificent’ it says you can pick an enchantment; anyone have any ideas what this could be? Unit upgrades? Additional special abilities?

I’ve been a couple of days away and have drifted apart from some of the recent rumors, but looking at the overall collection of whispers of what’s to come has given me some decent room to speculate on how the Kruelboyz will play. Taking into account much earlier rumors, it was mentioned that they will be an ambush-themed army, contrasting with the straight-forward Orruk warclan approach of running as quickly into the enemy’s face as possible to smash and bash; very fitting considering that the Kruelboyz are more aligned to Mork. There have also been some teasers for an updated Wyvern, and some sort of slug/swamp named creature; this is also in addition to the large silhouettes in the background of the official images that look to be either a type of troll or an elite infantry choice. This, and the rumor that we will be receiving some sort of wolf calvary unit as well. My guess is that the army is going to look very diverse on the tabletop, with small units of hobgoblins and kruelboy orruks to hold objectives or take in large swarms; the calvary will be an alternative which can (hopefully) be taken as a troop choice of a boss on the big monster is taken. The real meat of the army is going to be in the form of large swamp monsters and trolls, with heroes either providing support or acting as best sticks, with certain ambush mechanics allowing said monsters or blobs to close in quickly. It’s going to be a semi-glass cannon army with high MW potential and generally lower than average saves, but high wounds and toughness.

Physically, Dex is a lot smaller than the much more muscular Keeper; now I can see why she was pointed at 280 and given 10 wounds.

I’m hoping we get a Nob/Brute equivalent of a Kruelboy, something akin to the awesome Killaboss models. I lm also wondering if the nee Kruelboyz get larger the more they fight and win, similar to the traditional Orruks; it does seem that the Killaboss is much larger then his compatriots.

I really like the anatomy of the new Orruks, I’m just not a fan of the shaggy lack of armor. When looking to build a new army, I always look towards the more elite-armored units for inspiration; I have a ton of Bloodwarriors and Painbringers for both my Khorne and Slaanesh lists respectively. If an elite infantry/monster unit comes out with very similar armor to the Killaboss’s, then I’d be very hooked.

What do you guys think are the chances of seeing a more elite version of the Gutrippa battleline? Something more akin to the killaboss in ascetics, but smaller; the Orruk Brute equivalents for the Kruelboyz.