AngryPanda

Nice work with the new survey @Enoby! It’s great to hear that GW heads have seen the survey @Sorrow. Hopefully some meaningful change will come to our book eventually. As it stands, it seems that the majority of the community believes HoS to be one of the weakest books. The tournament data also seems to also indicate this. I’m in the opinion that the book is weak at a competitive level, but can preform alright in casual settings. Regardless, I’ve hadn’t had the time to play many games recently, but I’ve been quietly observing the community’s experiences with the army.

Imo he’s probably a member of the new warband for Underworlds, and not a nob. Compared to the models around him, they look to be the same size, with the only distinguished feature being the pet vulture he has perched on his arm.

It looks great! I've read through it in detail, and the questions that most attraction my attention are the additions of new hosts under "What would you like to see most in a supplement book or tome celestial (tick all that apply)." Perhaps after answering this question, there could be an open-ended question that allows the survey taker to elaborate? If I were to elaborate, I'd be pretty interested in seeing a Glutos or Sigvlad specific host that uses his famed mirror guard.

My apologies for the late reply, I've recently moved into my new place and have been setting up shop. I took a look at the data, and I'm 50/50 on what to think of it. On one hand, it shows that HoS came in at close to last, proving a lot of predictions from the community. On the other hand, 23 games is a relatively small pool to come to conclusions from, and it's unknown to me what lists are, and how high the players skill levels were. Based on my experiences since the FAQ that dropped after 3.0 was released, I starting to grow more and more confident that HoS is somewhere in the middle regarding power level. For casual play, I think we're in a good place. Playing HoS competitively would require more finesse than other armies, but I think can be done rewardingly. Something else to consider as well are the recent results from the Orlando, Florida tournament that was sponsored by GW. On the Hedonites of Slaanesh discord, there was a list that was posted of a Slaanesh player that brought Glutos, Sigvlad, a LoP, a KoS, and a ton of painbringers (to hold objects). There was also another list posted that incorporated Belakor that had some tournament success, although it was posted a while ago.

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Ah, now that I further think of it, it could be BoC or Nurgle as well on account of some rumors that have been flouting around. I’d like to see an update to Nurgle, but I’d prefer Beastmen are because of how weak their current rendition is. If Nurgle were to get an update, it be nice to see more mortal troop choices; their range exclusively consists of Blightkings as some rendition. My fingers are crossed that there will be, at some point, Pestigors and Khorngors that are added to their respected allegiances.

My guess, Skaven? I don’t think it will be chaos dwarfs, it’s too premature into the edition to announce that sort of unique release. Me too, and although I really like the design style they went with when making Kruelboyz, I feel that there is a lack of unit diversity. They have a ton of monster units, but no elite infantry or calvary options. If they added the equivalent of an Orruk Brute/Nob, and a cavalry unit that a lot of people are hoping for, I’d be pretty satisfied.

I’m going to wager that the Kruelboyz release is going to be very similar to how Slaanesh was handled. There was the initial 3.0 starter set wave of miniatures, which will be followed up by another wave of stuff that fills in some of the roster’s gaps; hopefully it happens within the year.

It seems like the rumors for the upcoming releases are relatively scattered. First it was mentioned that Kruelboyz would be getting some sort of Calvary option, chaos dwarfs would be in the distant future, and that Dwarfs will be souped into a single book. Now, there’s speculation that both Skaven and Cities of Sigmar would be getting some sort of update. Anyone hear of any news or rumors that could suggest when we would be seeing any of these releases? My guess, from looking at GW’s release trends and from what others have said, is that September (or the very least October) will have something, possibly Skaven/CoS due to the discontinuation of some of their products from the webstore.

Interesting, as you mentioned this would imply an update to Cities of Sigmar and Skaven. CoS could use some nee models to better match the setting, whereas Skaven (IMO) are some of the most outdated models in the range. If anyone deserves a new model refresh, it’s absolutely Skaven and their play doh muscle arms lol

I have a feeling the darkoath line is going to be released as Norsca when Warhammer Fantasy gets rebooted through forgeworld, or when GW finally decides to update Marauders.

Best counter to monsters/Sons I can think of is a summoned three-man unit of Fiends, or if you can afford it, a unit of 6; Fiends are designed to to be our multi-wound damage dealers that can blend through elite infantry or cavalry, and act as a road block for monsteroues entities. Though the six-man unit may be overkill despite the 2 inch tail attack and -1 wound bonus because of the changes to coherency. Also consider bringing the Mindstealer, which has a watered down version of our old Locus of Diversion from the 2019 book, and also has the Monster keyword. It can prevent a unit/Gargant from attacking until last in the combat phase, and when combined with a unit of Twinsouls, fiendbloods, or both, it has some great utility and can indirectly increase Slaanesh’s relatively frail survivability. As for Gortrek, best I can see is either Belakor (to prevent the opponent from using him), a Mindstealer (see above), Sigvald (to ignore ward saves), or a combination of the three. Gortrek is also relatively slow, and will most likely be sent into the central battle. Slaanesh is one of the faster armies in the game, and against shooting or skirmishing you may be able to run circles around him, although it may become an over glorified game of Cat and Mouse.

It could be that, similar to the Hedonites mortal release, we get another wave of Kruelboyz later on in the (somewhat) distant future that would include calvary and some other options. For now, we’re probably going to have to suffice with what we have, based on that comment from GW saying that Kruelboyz are done for the time being.

Though they were released back in February, I’m still a bit in shock at how bad their profile is, and that they received a 10 point bump. It’s such a shame, considering how beautiful the models are; Slaangors next to Painbringers are probably my favorite sculpts. Really makes me wonder what’s happening behind the scenes with play testing and how they write the warscrolls.

The sculpts for the Kruelboyz are very well done, but I was hoping to see at least another troop choice, or the rumored calvary unit; the model range is extremely monster-heavy. While a centerpiece monster or two is nice, when there are at least five monsters-esq. units and only 2 troops, it feels burdensome.

Honestly, from what I’ve read here and on the Hedonites of Slaanesh discord, and from what I’ve seen, it’s seems like we’re actually in a pretty ok place that’s in the middle. A lot of units that I thought were bad (Synessa the biggest example) are actually pretty decent once you throw on command abilities. I’m not much of a tournament player, I’ve always played more for fun at my local FLGS. Although we can use a few buffs (Slaangors!), I’m happy with what we have; just make sure GW doesn’t change anything again.

To be honest, this has me a bit nervous. I’ve been collecting Warhammer for a little over 10 years. I was first introduced to 40k via Dawn of War 1, leading me to buy the Black Reach box set soon after. There’s something I’ve observed of 40k over years of watching it evolve and change over time: it’s never balanced. In fact, with each edition there’s slew of unbalancing issues that have riddled the game’s mechanics. Grey Knight nemesis weapons instantly killed whatever they touched towards the end of 5th edition; Eldar-Tau armies created from the flawed allied matrix introduced in 6th edition dominated the tournament scene; Tyranids were one of the weakest armies in 6th, and were nerfed into oblivion (causing the 40k community to go into an uproar); D weapons were awful to play against; everyone and their dog had a Knight army with guardsman conscripts as cheap objective holders, etc. Part of the reason I stopped playing 40k a couple years back is because of how volatile the game system is. Tau used to be a scourge to deal with, and now they’re one of the weakest armies to play. Despite how common Imperial Knights used to be, Knights are now rarely see the tabletop because of the change to objective scoring and allied units. In 9th, all imperial space marines have 2 wounds, whereas Chaos have yet to receive the update that could of easily been introduced via a quick FAQ. Also, don’t get me started on those poor genestealer cultists I remember how excited everyone was when they were announced, and they have been at the bottom of the barrel since their release a couple years back. There isn’t any meaningful consistency within the system. AoS has its flaws (a bit unknown right now with the introduction of 3rd), but throughout its relatively short lifespan it’s felt far more stable compared to 40k. I’m both a Hedonites of Slaanesh and Blades of Khorne player, two armies that are considered weaker in the current meta; I would gladly play these two within AoS’ system as opposed to being considered one of the weakest in 40k. Personally, I’d rather have the 40k rules team stay within 40k, and the AoS rules team focus on improving internal balance while listing to feedback from the community. Some of the better rules we’ve received have been a result of GW and community working in tangent via various feedback sources. This magic has somewhat been lost recently (arguably due to covid and the lack of tournament data), but hopefully they continue to adopt stronger community interaction policies when balancing the game, instead of adopting some of the 40k rules.

The dragons look huge, and the sculpts are pretty cool, but it I couldn’t stop myself from laughing during the trailer; the voice acting and lack of facial animation reminded me too much of The Frog King’s court from South Park:

Now that the new edition and it’s FAQs have been out for around a month, what are your guys general experiences with the army? Are Painbringers terrible after losing the reroll saves?

We will see, I’m going to observe a bit longer how we’re doing in the new edition. I’m still salty about my poor Painbringers being reduced to a more expensive, inferior version of chaos warriors; the +5 ward save in addition to the +1 save when taken in larger units is far superior to our weak +1 in combat.

In my opinion, some of the problems with Slaanesh aren’t actually problems with us specifically, but are defined by larger balancing issues in the game. Teclis, similar to the OBR Petrifix Elite when they first came out, is op and probably didn’t receive the point increase that he deserved. The same can be said about Sentinels, and shooting overall. Slaanesh does have transparent weaknesses, but there are numerous lists we can make within the casual setting that can go toe-to-toe with most other armies while having a good time, both for the opponent and yourself. Within a competitive setting, the issues begin to materialize more clearly; this is where the debates begin to arise on how to deal with balance. My best answer is either going some sort of calvary-themed list that takes advantage of our high speed, high damage units, or a list that centers around the numerous named characters we have and one of our best units: Twinsouls. We also have really, really good endless spells that can be used to generate depravity while also dealing scary damage. I personally like Glutos a lot, he’s a beautiful model and is a jack-of-all-trades unit that accomplishes multiple roles (melee, debuff, magic, etc.) I see a lot of people talk about the recent twins that were released, bur don’t see as many people talk about Fatakros. Glutos is a sleeper that people have somewhat forgotten about due the point changes and disruption that the new meta has brought with it. For 475 points, he’s a decent point investment, but brings a lot of value to the table. I like to pair him with Painbringers because the models are beautiful and it’s fun to have a relatively (if not very overcosted) tanky unit act as a screen for the glutton. If I were playing competitively, I’d swap out the Painbringers for a unit of Twinsouls. From there, I’d explore what option I have.

Love the color scheme you chose, the Orange goes surprisingly well with the iron, black, and pink undertones. Some people have mentioned the striking differences between the orruks; imo savage orruks and ‘ardboyz are can use a re-sculpt, but the newer megaboss and brutes look pretty good. My favorite is easily the Kruelboy Killaboss on foot with the shield. The model feels and looks great, and doesn’t seem over burdened with the high fantasy design that GW has mostly released. I’m not so much a fan of the smaller Gutrippas; their too plain for my taste, but to each their own. I prefer the more armored, elite look of the Killaboss. My fingers are crossed that GW releases the equivalent of Nobz for these guys, the bigger and more elite variants for Kruelboyz to take. Speaking of which, has anyone heard any rumors regarding anymore Kruelboyz releases? A month ago I heard that there was going to be some sort of calvary option, and GW has heavily hinted at the release of some flying bat/wyvern unit.

If you’re interested in competitions officially hosted or sponsored by GW, I would look at getting some Dark Aelf or Drucari heads, and if you’re leaning away from elves then I would look at Space Wolf heads without the extra cybernetic bits; the long, flowing hair can add to the Slaanesh ascetic. Or, just go for some chaos warrior head bits if that fits your fancy. If you’re not going to be competing in official GW tournaments, then you can try some third party bits sellers; this one may be particularly interesting: https://www.spellcrow.com/pleasure-knights-heads-p-216.html Spellcrow, Puppetswar, Maximini, etc. have some interesting stuff out there.

I am familiar with the other changes, the concern I have is the lack of understanding for the differences between the individual armies that they have failed to take into consideration. To elaborate, a unit of Chaos Warriors losing their rerolls might sting, but they’re cheap enough to take in larger units and they still have MW protection. They won’t be killing anything, but a high number of bodies with a +3/+5 MW save is still going to do it’s intended job despite not having rerolls. Same with Chaos knights, Chaos Lords, etc. They’re still capable doing their intended job because they’re cheap enough to do so. Painbringers, by comparison, are now unable to do what they’re intended for. 160 points for five wounds was more understandable when they had reroll saves because it made them an elite option with high survivability. A unit of 10 Painbringers at 320 points holding off a horde of 60 Skaven is fluffy and made sense from a design choice, especially considering that their main weakness is mortal wounds. Now? They’re a worse version of Chaos Warriors. Sure, they could do more damage, but their damage output isn’t stellar. They’ve lost what made them special, and now they’re overpriced and can’t fill the role they were supposed to. It just seems that GW doesn’t comprehend the changes that they’re making, especially when they make universal changes such as this. It is very lazy to not consider the individual armies that are being affected. It’s also not like Painbringers were smashing the tournament scenes. We’ve struggled to be a mid tier army since our relatively recent release in February, and they were one of the only options that were considered to be just ok.

I think I’m officially done with AoS for a while now. First the disappointment from our original release, then the price bump (which I was able to get over and even admitted wasn’t as bad as it seemed). Now the nerf to painbringers.... it doesn’t end lol I’m pretty much convinced that GW is trying to sabotage HoS at this point. Why keep nerfing us? What did we do to deserve it? It’s just awful design, and I’m not buying into it.