Melbar

Don't worry Ninth, I normally ignore the "internet" - my observation is more about our Scene here in my City/group of friends/Shops. Most people I talked to are more or less burned out by 40k, even if they admit that AoS is the more appealing ruleset (not setting, don't get confused here). I think it will be getting better over the next six months (or summer 2022), but until then it's hard to get them on board. The clunky written ruleset does a lot of damage, as it may be clear and the game fun to play, but it's neither not immersive nor inspiring. Currently I concentrate on the good stuff, like the miniatures and terrain building and invite the people to game in my man cave. One guy is in the fence already. 😊 But Germany is though when it comes to convince people to something new. I will share some images of my armies in the next couple of days.

Good morning everyone, thanks a lot for this thread – for me it speaks volumes that we need to have a separate thread to discuss the positive sides of AoS 3. And to see the low amount of responses support my observation, that AoS 3 clearly split the player base even further than the 2nd Edition (3rd feels like the Tournament-Edition, so they are not aimed at me). But back to the positive things (at least for me): 1. The Miniatures! I like the new Kruelboys as they are generic enough to use them in other games without worrying too much about the size or aesthetic. Also the updated Stormcast Eternals are nice and with a little tweak they can be used as special Troops in games like SAGA Age of Magic without any problems. 2. Painting! The current Minis are a joy to build and paint. Big Plus on my list! Not so positive things: Nobody in my neck of the woods plays it or even plan to test it (40k and other games are king here, and sadly the rules are a chore to read).

I'm with zilberfrid here, alas I would called it less drastic in the "better companies" part (different companies fits better). Me in person don't like the new rules either, but I liked the free warscrolls to some degree (mainly for the first two editions of AoS). The world is not falling if they are went off, but it was the last reason for me to visit the GW-Webstore and to expend my collections with allies. That said I'm glad that I can now say, that I have several finished armies, which I can also use for different games. My point here is: The Miniatures and gaming materials are expensive enough, why not give the people the Scrolls for free? Not the full army rules, sure not, but the scrolls? Seems that the introduction time is over for AoS and I'm with it. I'm also aware that I'm not the target group for GW, so I'm not a big to their bottom line. 🙂 Still it's sad that the people are forced to use the App.

That's a really interesting topic. Since my first steps in this hobby 30 years ago, I have had the personal claim to only play with painted minis. This sometimes causes problems for me within the game, as I don't always have the units at hand that would be best at the moment, but what's the point. But I would never apply this personal claim to my friends and play partners, whether I play in a shop or in the hobby room. However, I have already seen several times that players and beginners were denounced because they did not appear at the gaming table with painted armies corresponding to the current state of the game (very often in GW shops). The really bad thing was often that the so-called veterans stood at the gaming table of two strange players and uttered their nonsense without being asked. I don't know if that's only the case here in Germany, but I think it's really absurd. What is this nonsense? If the person didn't paint his models, then so be it. It doesn't matter if you do it consciously or if you don't have the time. It's her hobby. I often had discussions with such gatekeepers and in the end it often turned out that they had an absolutely underground painting standard or only half-painted armies. I think that's bad, especially for newbies. I always find it better to support people and motivate those who don't like painting to paint their models. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Hi all, long time not here, but the pandemic give me more time for fun stuff. Shooting as such is not the problem; it’s the core rules that cause the issue. In games like the Lord of the Rings and Chronopia/Warzone or even 40k you can pick out Heros, but the main difference in those games is the rules and turn structure. Lord of the Rings: Armies move, then both armies shoot and then both armies fight. Key in this game is the positioning. The cover rules for LotR are really good, as the shooting Unit has to consider intervening models/Units and Terrain. Hits are still likely, but much harder (okay, counts for all Models, not just heores). In Chronopia and Warzone you cannot target the Hero (character model) if it’s in 4 Inch of a unit, as the hero counts for shooting as part of the Unit and you have to shoot at the nearest target (there are quite a lot more rules to shooting, but this is the simple version). In 40k it’s that Heros cannot be targeted if they are within three inch of a unit and not the closest target to the shooter and unless the hero has just up to 9 HP and is not a Monster. As much as I like LotR and Chronopia/Warzone I think that the 40k solution is better suited to AoS. It does not reduce the effectiveness of shooting too much, as the positioning of both heroes and ranged units become more important. In my humble opinion AoS is a light hearted game with simple rules Just a tweak here and there, like 40k Look out, Sir! and updated terrain rules. The “double turn” is part of the game, but for the sake of the game makes it “optional”. People both like and hate it, and as an optional rule anyone will be happy. For wishes: Just give AoS the turn structure of LotR. That would be great and it works quite okay in our small group.

I own currently nine fully painted fantasy armies, all around 100 to 150 models per army, all are painted by myself. Three of them are specifically for AoS (Stormcast, Blades of Khorne and Slaves to Darkness) so I have a big investment both in time (painting) and money. And still I don't play AoS because I do not enjoy the rules. I fully respect that someone enjoys the company of the great guys in this community and bite the lemon (aka the rules) to enjoy the rest. But that's not me. I allready mentioned that I see the battletomes as an exception, the GHB not (it's since the first itteration just a recap of allreday existing stuff). Regarding 40k: Yep, you are totally right. Regarding Win: Winning is valid as long as both sides have the same chances and a good time. Win for winnings sake is a concept I don't like.

40k is really a different beast and I had not played or collect anything of it since my first (and also last) game in 6th Edition*. I will also skip the new Edition, as I like Fantasy settings more than Sci-Fi ones. *I played from second Edition till end of fifth, Was a good time.

Good morning, of course I’m a bit biased, because that’s the nature of man. The truth lies in between, but as a human I draw my conclusion from the world directly surrounding me. That’s the reason why I wrote “It’s my feeling” – feelings are not matter of hard fact. Matched play is a good way for pick-up games, sure and I’m glad that the AoS players have this option at hand. But any match I watched in one of the stores was either a training game for a tournament or a matter of “bring the best units and see what happens”. This can be, of course, a regional phenomenon. On the internet the most seen discussion turn around “Best or worst units/Army”, Tournament results, Meta, Copy/paste armies, etc.pp. What makes me wonder is, if the tournament players are not satisfied with the rules, why did they play? Regarding the narrative stuff: Since it’s start AoS use the same Battleplans again and again, including a good bunch of rules - they are just renamed. Many of them are directly drawn from the Realmgate Wars book series, including siege rules, times of war and other “narrative” elements without much change. We have an exception in the Battle Tomes and some things like Anvil of Apotheosis or the Malign Sorcery expansion. That is not much, due to the constant recycling. Maybe I have missed something really new here, since I do not longer pay attention to it (since GH 2019). In the end I think it's a regional thing. Maybe I should give the game another go in the future.

I am sure that the tournament people are not 100% happy with the rules and for good reason. After all, they are the guys who play a lot and talk about it very "loudly" on the Internet. But it still feels to me from the GW side that everything that matters is matched play games. All other game mods get just some half backed rules once in a while. Don't get me wrong, I'm just not a fan of the current direction of the rules.

How does everyone feel about Age of Sigmar? Good question, but as I can only speak for myself I would say that I have no special feelings about it. For me it’s a mixed back. The main selling point for me is the miniatures and not much more. I like some parts of the background, others not so much. For me it’s a sunday morning cartoon world where everything is possible, which can be both a boon and a curse. Fun to watch (Rerolling Ones makes really good battle reports), but not good enough to invest to much spare time in it. The rules have forced me to not involve anymore in gaming, as they devolved to cater first and foremost the tournament crowd (nothing against tournament players!), which is not in the slightest my cup of tea. Also the rules are written in such a bad manor that they need to be revised two weeks after release. As this is clearly just a vehicle to sell more toys makes the game for me even less appealing (“stir the hopes of gamers that next time all will be better” is something I really dislike). In contrast to GW I don’t see their books as collector’s items and therefore it both baffles and pains me to pay a premium for a rushed product. The background story is not good enough/engaging for me to buy the books just for a read anymore. I’m aware that there is the app for the warscrolls, but it does not solve the problem of the half backed rules. All in all I enjoy the miniatures and will continue to buy one or two per year, but the “Game” has lost me. But this is just me and I can use my toys for different gaming systems without annoying all the people who enjoy AoS as what it is – a really respectably hobby with many different facets. Stay healthy!

Hi wayniac, Seems that you are in a real dilemma. During my early years of wargaming I encountered a similar situation, where I have to decide how I will go forward with my hobby. I started somewhere during the 4th Edition of Warhammer (so basically during the early/mid `90s of the past century) and during this time it was just a “kill the enemy with the most broken combo possible”! With the start of the 5th Edition this behavior vanished and was replaced by a more “This is cool, give a **** on the playability” approach. It was my best time of Wargaming (until lately). I just collected and painted the stuff I want and only play only against people I personally like – even if they were power gamers (friends are really important for such kind of games). I think I just played three times in a Shop so far in total and each experience was a nightmare (except for the Blood Bowl game we do for White Dwarf – this was a blast). Then I started to work for GW and even if you do believe it or not – from all the great people their only a couple play for the sake of a good story. The rest game for the win and only for the win. And this sucked the urge of me to play Warhammer anymore (just a couple of games during sixed edition, twenty or so during 7th and three during 8th - the most cumbersome and unfunny ruleset of all time in my opinion) and so I switched for a while to 40k. Funny enough the gamers here were more chilled till 5th Edition comes true (stopped 40k also). The only game during this time I could fully enjoy was “The Lord of the Rings” and it still is my favorite GW game to this day. Long story short: The competitive gaming killed my creativity and enjoyment of the games. Competition is part of each game, true, but if a game, also rules wise, tends to just cater for one side of the pendulum it is not well written. The middleground is allways the best for me and I think each should choose his own path in the hobby without the “preasure” of company or gamers behavior. I decided (after the split of my group) to enjoy the painting part of the Hobby and play a GW game once or twice a year with the intention of having fun (I think beer and pretzel approach together with a good backstory). Basically I’m back at the “feeling” of the WHF 5th Edition. 😄 Side note: I own three painted armies for AoS, two for WHF (as well three for Kings of War, all of Runewars, two of 40k and so on) – seems that I have too much time, but in nearly 30 years of collecting a lot comes together. And no one of them are competitive, but I learned to play with them. 😅

I think Old World will more suit your taste and as long as you can enjoy the sky dwarves and the Citiy Troops (Cities of Sigmar are very “Old World”) all is fine. 😃

Normaly I’m also more grounded and prefer the style of The Lord of the Rings over any other setting. But I also like a comical/heavy metal style of fantasy miniatures. Warhammer was a good mix of this until 6th edition. For AoS I think, that it’s a very comical/heavy metal style setting like D&D/Magic the Gathering and I like many of the Miniatures for what they are – Miniatures. The setting itself is nothing special or new, but I can enjoy it without any problem. It’s not Warhammer nor LotR, it’s more like Planescape or the Marvel Universe and a good enjoyment for me if I need something to calm down. So, long term short: If you do not enjoy the miniatures skip them. I do not like the Bolter-Crossbows/Boltthrower of the Stormcasts or the Flails/Canon/Blood Throne of the Khorne troops and therefore I will never use or collect them. Problem solved for me.

I think the new Aelves aren't that bad. They give me a strong wipe of eastern movies like Princess Mononoke, for example. The clear influences of Chinese and Tibetan folklore are also very nice. The helmets are typical for GW design, as they tend to dial everything up to eleven, to make it “fantastic”. Not a bad thing, as it was since ever. All in all I need them to see in personal, so I can better decide if I like them or not. It’s the same approach here as with the Bonereapers (which I do not like at all except for some individual Minis).

You mean D&D, Chronopia, Realms of Terinoth to just name a few. 🙂 AoS is not very special in that way.

If it was so easy ... 🙂 We changed a lot more, like line of sight, terrain rules/interaction and Rent/Mortal wounds ratio (we stopped at the spells - to much work) - but in the end it was to much work for everyone to adjust the rules to something we like to play. So the group splitt and now I'm enjoying the painting part of this hobby (and sometimes reading the background). 🙂

I think it's not a problem with the "weak" warscrolls, but more with the rules shift during 2.0. AoS is a game of combinations and Liberators, for example, works quite okay as an ambos if you combine them with a Castellan (+1 safe through the warding lantern). Also Liberators have the "Lay low the tyrant"-Rule, which let them hit monsters better. The current problems the game rules have are (beside other little things): Mortal Wounds and the massive lack of Rent. I don't get why the "Rent"-Ability is so neglected. You could push Units without a problem with this ability and still have the same mortality in the game (which seems to be the only way for the game designers to make the game faster). But what we have galore is x Mortals wounds, be it for spells or other things. It is boring as hell and causes some of the warscrolls to a point, where nobody will use them or see them as “weak”. It’s easier to pick the clearly strong units as to make a combination. This and some of other issues forced my group to quit the game entirely, which is a shame in the end of the day. Cheers and stay healthy!