Landohammer

Hey everyone, I am taking a meme list to a tournament in two weeks. See below for the first draft. Basically the goal is overwhelm the enemy with Enlightened while summoning a Lord of Change as early as possible. (potentially turn 1 but likely turn 2) I have tested out various version of the list (with only 3 squads of enlightened) and it has done pretty well. Beating new ogors twice and losing to a super hard nurgle fly spam list by 1 point. The biggest weakness is the fluxmaster getting sniped early, so I am considering dropping 3 enlightened for a second character. (I am actually considering Sigvald just for the LOLs.) Any thoughts? Should be fun either way Guild of Summoners Flux master (general) -Daemonspark -Arcane Tome 10 Kairic Acolytes 10 Kairic Acolytes 10 Kairic Acolytes 6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs 6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs 6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs 6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs

Normally I would agree but the concern for Votann united the 40k community in a way you don't see very often. I'm not going to say it was unanimous, but the majority opinion based on their points and mathing out interactions was pointing to them being heinously overperforming. The fact that they were op isn't really debatable. Its simply how OP they were that was the subject of debate. And keep in mind this is coming off a tournament season where multiple armies were hitting 85% win rates and the game required a blanket hotfix to address it (armour of contempt). Most folks did not want that to happen again. Myself included. It absolutely kills RTT event attendance and makes the community toxic.

This is how its supposed to be played, but my experience is that most tend to forget about it. Also the wyldwood warscroll was updated approx SIX times during 2nd and 3rd edition so many folks just don't bother with it anymore. The forests footprint is quite small so getting a unit to have 3" between it is usually just not worth the effort unless you are A) a small unit that is trying to hide or B) the forest is literally on an objective. In my experience most shooty units either ignore LOS, have 10+ wounds so can ignore it, or are fast enough to position to a different angle where 3" isn't between you and them.

Oh I love the models too. But they have managed to be terrible in both game systems. Quite an achievement for a non-demon.

Looks like GW is back at their (ultimately doomed) attempts to make people buy tzaangors. Whats the list at now? -Aether Wars -Arcane Cataclysm -Hexfire -Thousand son start collecting -Thousand Son Patrol -Tzaangor Army of Reknown

Yea, keep in mind it activates every Hero phase and has quite a large area of affect. So unless you keep every single unit 10+ inches apart its going to get quite a few triggers. It takes a 9+ to dispel it, and its faster than my Treelords. So they are going to get caught. So on average, a purple sun will get 2-4 dice rolls per battle round, and thats probably 10-20 dice rolls per game. If your army is mostly monsters its an odds game you are going to lose I ran Oakenbrow at the tournament. It was fun, and my games were all super close on BPs, but I was tabled every game. Each mortal wound hurts when your army is only like 86 wounds lol. I will personally be sticking to more traditional lists, at least until purple sun gets nerfed. But Oakenbrow def has some legs in the hands of a more competent player than me lol

Quick story. Was playing a monster mash themed tournament. Brought 3 Durthus and a Treelord. Opponent cast purple sun turn 1. Killed a Durthu and a Treelord. On turn 3 it killed another Durthu. Lost 1000pts to a 70pt spell in a tournament game. Fun 😑 Also the Magma dude invocation for fyreslayers is pretty nuts. If they roll a double (he did) it does a ton of mortals. Did about 14 mortals to my army on the top of turn 1, killing Drycha in the process. And there is no way to stop it without a priest. Thanks for coming to my salt-fest.

Thanks for the reply. In a friendly game I would just reroll the scenario because I am a Sylvaneth player and "Confined Caverns" rule completely turns off my entire allegiance along with a chunk of my warscroll abilities anyway. The irony is that most of my meta were ok with the scenario (despite us Sylvaneth and KO players screaming) until they realized it impacted THEIR army too lol. So NOW its a problem 🤣

My TO was also ringing the event and it only came up in the last 30 minutes of the final round when he tried to summon plaguebearers and personally realized the issue. We realized terrain was also impacted after the event was over. So all terrain/summoning was allowed. Also we only had like 1 GHB shipped to our store so we had 14 guys trying to share a single book. It was an insane day (but fun!). Honestly we were considering dropping the battleplan for future events just because of the "no-teleport" rule anyway. This just seals the deal. The armies that can teleport have baked in points cost for that, it gets silly when you turn it off completely.

This is how I felt. I knew the no-teleport rule going in, but the terrain/summoning/etc rule became apparent halfway through the game. The whole scenario is a mess TBH. There are so many minor interactions with objectives that it will need its own FAQ for nearly every faction.

Question guys, regarding "Battlelines Drawn" Battleplan in the new GHB It makes every table quarter an objective. So does that mean players can't deploy faction terrain at all? Since terrain has to be 3" from any objective. Also what about armies like nurgle or soulblight that can't summon within X inches of an objective? That scenario also prevents teleport, which egregiously kills Sylvaneth and KO armies, so I'm curious about the terrain/summoning loophole. I played this scenario at a tournament last night and it was brutal.

The Battlelines Drawn battleplan in the new GHB makes each table quarter an objective. So how does that interact with rules that require you set setup stuff "more than 3" away from objectives" Just a list of examples: Faction Terrain Gravemarkers Nurgle Summoning, etc

I believe the seekers are on a 4+ to hit with their big attack correct? So Seekers will essentially require all out attack, but will do a ton of damage, while Lancers don't necessarily need the AOA to reliably hit, and they have that all important ASF. They are also 25 points cheaper and faster. One is a super efficient hit and run unit, while another is a jack of all trades support unit. I think Harvestboon armies will likely prefer to run 2 units of lancers and 1 unit of Seekers. I think if you "honeycomb" the unit as you say in the 4+2 formation and separate the front row by 1" exactly, it should allow you the 9-10 extra MM you need to get your back row into combat. But that is assuming you have a large enough enemy unit foot print to do so. Once you take a single casualty you would then be good to go. This actually is another reason to lean towards Lancers because once you hit that magic "5" models, you may not want to resurrect a model so you can easily capitalize on attacks.

The spites did fine vs 4+ save stuff. When they had to deal with 3+ save stuff or better their output dramatically dropped. I am strongly considering swapping out regrowth for Treesong. The extra rend seems more important than a swingy heal. I wasn't impressed with a 5 man squad honestly. I would rather have dryads for screens or tree revs for cheap grabbers. I am sticking to 10 going forward. I probably will never use TLA at his current points level if i'm being honest. So me and the Gladewyrm go way back. I love the model, and its not terrible. It is just usually eclipsed by the Hive. But now that we have a Battle Tactic that you can complete by killing a unit with a spell, and it got a points drop, I justified including it again. Its appealing to me because A) its huge and can actually screen out large infantry units. B) its stacks well with our forest heal for a potential D3+1 heal on multiple units and C) It triggers the forest 4+ mortal wounds and D) its damage can potentially give you a battle tactic as mentioned above. In this particular game it pulled of a 3 wound heal, failed to damage the opponent, and then got dispelled in their hero phase. So while it didn't do much, it did present enough of a threat that my opponent felt like they had to burn a heroic action to attempt to get rid of it. Most opponents arent going to let a potential multi-healing multi-damaging endless spell run around, and a 7 is hard to beat reliably.

Durthu (Warsinger, Gladius) Lady of Vines (regrowth) 10 Spites 10 Spites 5 Spites 3 Sword Hunters 3 Scythe Hunters 5 Gossamids Gladewyrm I primarily took Dreadwood bc I wanted my Spites in the Expert Conquerers batallion. I never used the double strike and fade but I did use the double walk the spirit paths to steal two objectives late game. Reaping was helpful because it gives the ability to start the teleport at 12" out (but ending the teleport is still 9" AFAIK) Overall I felt like dreadwood lists were excellent at achieving battle tactics, grands and stealing objectives, but the list struggled in big combats. Admittedly it was a poor matchup bc my opponent brought giant Glutton and Irongut deathstars, and I just didn't have the tools to kill those guys. I am going to give it another try (this time with 30 spites and drycha) this thursday and see if I can't make it work better.

I played another game with the new codex and new GHB vs Ogors. I lost 22-23 but it mostly came down to Sword Hunters whiffing vs a Tyrant. I brought a Dreadwood Reaping list for max mobility. Here is a quick summary of high points. Please correct me if I got any rules wrong. -10 man unit of Spites in battalion where they are counting as 3 models for objectives is solid. Especially with access to multiple teleports. The were able to grab many VPs. Their footprint makes it tricky to land where you want tho. They are also VERY vulnerable to battleshock tests. -I often found my forests "shut down" by enemy units within 3". My understanding is that the 3" rule only applies to woods you "arrive" at, and not the wood you choose to go into. So that is helpful. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. -We have 2-3 battle tactics that are absolutely clutch. The "killl a unit within 6" of a wood" and "kill a monster with a treelord/durthu" are generally freebies under the right circumstances. And the "complete a teleport charge" is a nice hail mary in the end game when you dont' have many units left. The new GHB makes Grands and Battle tactics VERY difficult to complete, so reliable options are always helpful. -Scythe Hunters may be the MVP of the book. Especially in bounty hunters. These guys do not play, and Heartwood armies built around them will likely become a top list for us. I will have a block of 6 in every list. The jury is still out of sword bros. If you roll hot on your sixes they are great but AOD means their normal attacks don't often connect. -Dryads were surprisingly resilient. There might be some value in dryad spam lists. I need to explore that more.

The more I look at the Arch-Rev, the more I like him. He adds some pretty insane utility to Hunters, especially in Heartwood. Because they are most often going to be on 2+, the extra attack CA is a nice alternative to AOA. And it also combos well with large units of Spites fishing for mortals. The issue with the Warsong Warlord build for me, is that its a bare minimum of 555pts in characters. I am having a hard time getting all the units I want into lists! My initial assumption was that Ethereal Durthu was the auto-choice. But honestly Warsinger is probably the true-autotake. Most of our army is movement 5, and its honestly our biggest weakness. We are really vulnerable to well placed redeploys and it can cost us games when 500pt units of Hunters or 370pt units of Durthu's don't connect their charges. Many of the objectives will start the game 8-9+ inches away form deployment zones, and that oftens means you are praying for a 3+ run roll. Warsinger is a +60% movement buff and it can effect half your army. Its too good to pass on in almost every situation

I don't see any scenario where you take a second enhancement for the Warsong. You either build your army around him or leave him at home. What it boils down to is that Warsong needs two more heroes to unlock the Warlord battallion for the extra enhancement. Our heroes are just too pricy for that. However like I said earlier we have gained a lot of cheap hero options now with full cities allies. Those might be the key for the build you want. And battlemage got a price drop in the new GHB...

Thats fair, but the summon really gives her a lot of value. And she has a quite powerful shooting ability. The ward save aura is probably the best spell in our entire book outside of maybe Treesong. Also she can use herself as a woods, which makes her quite effective for the purposes of fight and fade and the normal teleport. The Warsong is definitely the better caster of the two, but in terms of utility the lady just does a bit of everything, and does it quite well.

Thanks. Yea thats definitely damage 2. Oh well back to the shelf lol. Lady of Vines just seems better as the double caster.

So with Branchwraiths going away and Branchwych's being a hefty 130pts now. Skaeths band now becomes our cheapest wizard. Is anyone considering him? Also getting access to the full cities roster means we can take a Sorceress or Battlemage. Both are solid casters for their points. The Battlemage putting +2 to charge on a unit before it teleports seems spicy

The leak am I looking at is pretty blurry but it 100% looks like Damage 3 to me. Do you have a clearer picture?

I was never a Warsong Revenant user prior to this tome. I never even bothered painting mine despite loving the model. The meta was just magic heavy and we are too limited on points. But his new melee profile absolutely slaps. He gets 5 damage 3 attacks and then a few rend 1 sword attacks. He will hit about as hard as a treelord in combat, has a ward and never brackets. Similar to Lady of Vines and Drycha, he is a powerful support tool and can fullfill multiple roles. Wow good catch. I'm not super impressed with the new Treelords profile for their points TBH, but I think oakenbrow definitely pushes them into the realm of possibility. And being able to field them as bounty hounters, combined with their pile-in denial and ASL, they can become absolute infantry shredders. Imagine charging a powerful melee unit like graveguard or fyreslayers, triggering ASL, denying pile in, and then swinging for damage 3 and 4 attacks on them. And then repeat.

When reviewing the old vs new treelord, keep in mind he is +80 pts (+44%). I think TLA is an pretty meh tho. Otherwise tho this book is looking super fun. I am excited to try all of the new groves. Excited my 50+ spite revenants will see some play again.

Heywoah streamed most of the codex live on twitch but it took him 5 hours to get through about 9 pages of the codex. The video just finished and isnt available on demand yet. Havent seen it anywhere else yet 😭